Observations about Joe Biden at the Iowa Steak Fry...

[brooklynite]

...he was not a compelling speaker (and I say this as someone who's had a private lunch and dinner with him). First, he was reading off a script (not a teleprompter, but I could see his notes on the dais), while Warren, Buttigieg, O'Rourke and most others spoke extemporaneously. Second, his message wasn't coherent; despite being written down, and delivered energetically, there was no clear structure about issues, policies etc. Third, he again referenced the clock, as opposed to saying what he had to say, as long as it took. There was plenty of cheering from his volunteers (and he had a lot of them) but the reaction from the audience was, at best, "polite" but but not engaged and inspired. Warren did the best of the bunch, followed by Buttigieg and O'Rourke.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

1. "His message wasn't coherent"... that problem you just identified is the biggest one with Biden.

Without an adequate message that can be succinctly stated, what's the point of nominating that candidate? Why Joe has the weakest chance of defeating tRump, compared to the rest of the top-tier candidates.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!! or
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!
Either way, welcome to the revolution!!!

[Peacetrain]

2. Well here it is.. and I have not a clue what you are talking about

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=mcafee&p=biden+speaks+at+steak+fry#id=1&vid=42ffda1da395e26e94f75670b28d2bc9&action=click


There is nothing incoherent about his speech.. he goes from one subject to another connecting each one.. and towards the end of his speech he says.. I know my time is almost up but let me add one more thing.. and he finishes up his speech (paraphrasing)...

[brooklynite]

10. Yes he DID go from one subject to another...

...but he didn't (in my -- apparently "based" -- opinion) exhibit an ability to knit them together (sequentially) into a full narrative,

[Peacetrain]

13. I have no idea what you were listening to..but we were not listening to the same speech apparently .

he absolutely moved from one subject to another , building on what he had been talking about before.. that is why I put the link up..it was not incoherent in any way shape form or fashion.. I did not say you were biased..but you put up an op, did not link the actual speech.. and it is not as you posted.. maybe when you are outside with other sounds going its not as clear.. I do not know..but the speech itself was just fine..

[NurseJackie]

22. "it was not incoherent in any way shape form or fashion"

it was not incoherent in any way shape form or fashion

Thank you. That was such a weird thing to say and a strange characterization.

[still_one]

28. but, but the OP has had a private lunch with Biden, so he knows.........

Gee, I wish I was a political insider, then my opinion would have more weighting

[obnoxiousdrunk]

36. +1. N/t

[BannonsLiver]

45. The OP didn't want to like the speech

He doesn’t like Biden as a candidate and has made that clear on numerous occasions. There is a strong bias against Biden, so it’s of no surprise the OP didn’t like the speech. It wouldn’t have mattered what Joe said or how he said it.

[emmaverybo]

31. Wrong. Varied coherency devices employed consistently.

Central theme, support for it, one passage knitted to the other. Logically developed piece.

I have been a GMAT essay reader, college literacy specialist, college public speaking teacher. I do not know what you are talking about. Maybe you “hear” incoherency, Biden’s speech somehow “feels” disjointed to you, but most people who actually judge college entrance exams or speeches would not make that determination. In fact, most with any training in these issues would say thesis, support, connections between points in support all present. Easy to follow Biden’s thinking.

You meant “biased,” not “based.”

[Wellstone ruled]

3. Your observations

are notable to many here on this forum.

You just nailed something that many have not commented on . Extemporaneous style and staying on topic tells volumes as to the person's true abilities.

Senator Warren is a up and comer.

[True Dough]

27. I think this is a valid observation

From you and from the OP.

[cwydro]

42. Yes.

Agreed.

[5starlib]

4. I saw it on CSPAN and didn't think anything was wrong with it

Sounds like a hit job from a biased observer.

[brooklynite]

6. If it makes you feel better, I don't care what you think of me or my opinions

I have the opportunity to go to a variety of political events that others don't, and I report on my experiences and opinions. You can agree with them, disagree with them, or ignore them.

Consider that Biden's support has DROPPED, and Warren's (whom I'm not supporting) has risen in the eyes of the voters of Iowa. But perhaps they're based...

[Cha]

9. You didn't like Biden's Launch Vid, either..

so sorry.. your opinion on Biden's speech is not something I'm taking into consideration.

[brooklynite]

12. So the only people you'll listen to are those who think Biden is doing a good job?

If it makes you feel better, I think he's very likely to win the nomination; my concern is whether he'll be able to pull off a GE win.

[Cha]

14. I know you don't like anything Biden

does so I'm really not interested in your bias from the get go.

It's was a Brilliant launch Vid imo and so many others.

[brooklynite]

35. To those who seem to feel that I'm "biased" in the Primary...

I've invested, at this point, about $60,000 in the 2020 Election. None of that money has gone to Buttigieg. All I'm doing is evaluating whether a candidate can win.

[FloridaBlues]

19. Iowa poll within margin of error. What's Beto's polling in Iowa?

[Blue_true]

21. I accept your viewpoint since you were there and got a chance to hear them all

and check out the audience reaction. That is better that selective camera takes, IMO.

[5starlib]

30. I don't agree with your opinions and I have a right to say as such

And yes, since you have a prior history of Biden bashing...even his introductory video, then your opinion is useless as you've shown you can't be a neutral observer.

[brooklynite]

33. So, I didn't like him opening video, and that constitutes "bashing"...

What criticism would you find acceptable?

[Wellstone ruled]

37. Knowing a little about the State.

The electorate seem to be looking for a Tom Harkin type of Rep. Might be way out on a limb,but,when visiting there last summer and talking to a few Rellies,that seemed to be the type of Candidate they were yerring for. Someone who did not come with a canned speech.

[brooklynite]

38. I don't know that a "canned' speech is a problem

I saw Buttigieg speak later than day at a Town Hall and he used a lot of same material in his speech. The question is whether the underlying stump speech material is compelling.

[Wellstone ruled]

40. Compelling is the key.

And it is great that this forum has someone of your statue to be closely associated with the political community in some way,and report out what is discovered and related back to us junkies whom here a different spin on what is going on.

Always suspected many so called Campaign Managers or Advisor's are to darn conservative in their advise or letting their Candidate broaden out their message. So easy to keep it on the 3 X5. They seem to scared to explore possibilities or is it they are scared of some Gaffe.

[Cha]

11. He didn't like Biden Launch Vid, either..

so, to me, it's just more of the same.

[BlueWI]

5. Yang was excellent too.

Good analysis of upcoming economic trends.

Biden's speech was light on substance and passion compared to several others. The contrast was quite obvious and stark.

[MBS]

7. I had similar impressions when I watched the speeches on C-SPAN. n/t

[Drunken Irishman]

8. What do you make of Pete's complete collapse in Iowa?

I feel Pete has a very vocal online community, even here at DU, and the trend has generally stayed the same - every time there is an event, he's the candidate who seems to receive the most praise for his speeches, his debate performance and just about everything else. Yet, in these same observations, we hear how Biden looked tired, out of step, incoherent, too scripted, not scripted enough, boring, long and drawn out ... and it never seems to manifest into anything in terms of overall support.

I think there's a disconnect. I think we all view certain candidates through a specific lens and the only one who seems to be backing up her praise with actual improved support is Warren. Every other candidate I keep hearing about who did amazing is either not gaining support, or, as is the case with Harris and Pete, collapsing the support they once had.

So, that disconnect is either with how you're seeing things - or with how much people actually value these types of events.

At the end of the day, Biden gets panned an awful lot for his performances, while others are praised beyond reservation ... and yet, while people focus on the latest Iowa poll that showed Biden slipping, the candidate who lost the most from their last poll was Mayor Pete. He dropped from 14 points to 9. He and Sanders saw the biggest decrease in support.

I don't know. Just an observation about your observation.

[brooklynite]

15. Except that I'm not a Buttigieg loyalist...

I've said before that he's the person I'd currently vote for, but I have no emotional link to him or his campaign and would dump him in a second if I though someone else was a better choice (remember that I started out with Hickenlooper).

I would describe his drop as not cashing in on the buzz from the CNN Town Hall in terms of framing policies with a message. I had a chance to chat with his Iowa staff and pointed out that he doesn't talk about his South Bend background and what the local issues he's dealt with do to provide a framework for dealing with national ones.

FWIW, I sat in on a local Town Hall with him after the Steak Fry; he engages well with ordinary voters (especially kids), and is willing to talk about any issue they bring up, including Gay Rights, Afghanistan, race relations, and school bullying. He's low in the polls, but he's doing better than Harris and is investing in staff in Iowa. We'll see what happens.

(nb - did people notice that I didn't yell "hit job"?)

[Drunken Irishman]

16. Never called you a loyalist.

It's not just to his supporters, either. It's to the entire narrative. I see it about almost every candidate - how they shined, they were awesome, they looked great, sounded great, were on their a-game and then Joe ... well, he was rambling, tired, old, incoherent and yet, after all these events, the only candidate who seems to have benefited from that narrative is Warren. Every other candidate is stuck in the mud or losing support ... despite how great they sound or how great their ideas are.

Maybe that's the problem. How you perceive it isn't how average folks are perceiving it? I don't know. Again, just an observation.

[brooklynite]

17. Some people seem to think I am...

I've been emphatic that nothing that gets said here reflects "average people".

[Drunken Irishman]

18. Okay.

[dsc]

23. His highest poll was 14, his current average is 11.3, his low since July 1 was 7 (his current

Register poll is 9). I am not sure that is a complete collapse in any meaning of the word. If you are looking Register to Register poll only then lets discuss that. The MOE is over 5 on the latest one. The last one was in June. The June one was his highest poll (tied with Gravis). An Iowa State poll has him at 13 and was in the field at the same time. Time will tell. Buttigieg's main problem is that he isn't tracking with Black voters and if he doesn't do so he won't get the nomination. Using the RCP average he is basically tied for third with Sanders with Warren and Biden tied for first. (even the average has some MOE). Given how far out we are and the fact we haven't had a debate with fewer than 10 on stage, he is in an OK place now since his money is in good shape.

[Blue_true]

20. Your snipets from the Steak Fry have been interesting reading. nt

[Gothmog]

24. I was at a private fundraiser for Biden just after the Debate

Joe spoke for 30+ minutes and gave a good speech. Joe also signed three of the floor signs that I brought back from the National Convention that we held up during his speech.

[brooklynite]

25. He CAN give a good speech...

...he didn't do it at the Steak Fry.

[Gothmog]

26. I liked what Joe had to say

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[emmaverybo]

34. I love Biden's vision of America. He's optimistic without looking through rose-colored glasses. He

knows we can do more to realize our ideals, which he always reminds us of. I hear lots of “policy”
from others, but not so much vision.

[Eric J in MN]

29. Did you listen to Bernie Sanders' speech?

If not, Bernie's speech is here (12 minutes):

[brooklynite]

32. I did...he got a worse response than Biden...

"tepid" was how I described it.

FWIW, the ONLY Bernie supporters were the handful of people behind him. The other campaigns had lots of volunteers engaging with the crowd. Perhaps an explanation as to why he's continuing to drop in Iowa.

[PhoenixDem]

39. Not appearing too polished and rehearsed is one of Biden's strengths

They speak of his authenticity.

[cwydro]

41. Thanks for posting this.

I like hearing the impressions of those who are actually there.

[cwydro]

43. Had you had a chance to hear Warren at all?

I’d love to see her when she comes to NC, but doubt I’ll make it there.

[brooklynite]

44. I thought she gave the best speech at trhe Steak Fry

Something I've noticed is that she's both energetic and cheerful. The "Happy Warrior" model is frequently appealing to voters.