Watching Senator Gillibrand on ALL IN

[BigBearJohn]

IMHO, she really thinks on her feet and is a dynamic speaker.
She is very intelligent and charming. she did not feel rote or
mechanical. Add to that, she is very well prepared. Quick thinker.
Her enthusiasm is VERY contagious.

I was very impressed. I never listened to her before but
I like her platform and I like her.

Any opinions out there about why she should NOT be my
candidate?

[Funtatlaguy]

1. Ummm. 🍿

[lordsummerisle]

2. Al Franken n/t

[crazycatlady]

12. yes because women exist for powerful men to kiss and grope without consent

I'm not just referring to Leann Tweeden.

[lordsummerisle]

18. They were allegations

he himself called for an investigation but there was none.

[Arkansas Granny]

39. Exactly. Had an investigation found the allegations to be true, I would have

agreed that he should resign. Lacking an investigation, it feels like he was railroaded.

[Trumpocalypse]

45. And who would do such an investigation?

[Trumpocalypse]

44. Actually what he called for was an Ethics committee hearing

which is not a finding of guilt or innocence but if Congressional ethics rules were violated.

And do you really believe the republicans on the ethics committee would have given Franken a fair hearing.

But Franken could have stuck it out. In the end he chose to resign.

[lordsummerisle]

48. OK, so investigation

is shorthand for "Ethics Committee Hearing". If it was determined that "rules were violated" that would be tantamount to guilty. It's all just speculation now though and we've lost one of the most effective Senators on our side because the circular firing squad I guess is very satisfying to partake in...

[Trumpocalypse]

49. Do you really think he would have

gotten a fair hearing from the republicans on the ethics committee? Franken was screwed before the hearing began.

And how was Franken ‘one of our most effective Senators’. I’m not saying he wasn’t a very good Senator but don’t see any evidence that he was more effective than any other Senator.

[lordsummerisle]

52. I can't speak for what the repubs would have done

his calling out out Jeff Sessions for lying to Congress and Sessions recusing himself from the Russia investigation I thought was "effective".

[Trumpocalypse]

55. True but that is one thing

What else?

[lordsummerisle]

61. Here

http://www.startribune.com/as-sen-al-franken-prepares-to-leave-senate-he-leaves-real-accomplishments-much-undone/462667163/
Please drop this now, we've both stated our opinions and we can agree to disagree.

[Trumpocalypse]

62. Nice record

but I don’t see it as above and beyond all other Senators.

[lordsummerisle]

63. OK

if I changed this from "most effective" to "somewhat effective" would you finally drop it?

[Trumpocalypse]

64. Yes but

Only if you really mean it.

[brooklynite]

66. Yes, he would have...

...because unlike all other Committees, the Ethics Committee is evenly balanced between Democrats and Republicans.

Perhaps we all need a refresher course on what happened.

(nb - before you shoot the messenger, remember that I was a funder and supporter of Franken and met with him several times)

1. Franken was accused of misconduct
2. Franken publicly apologized for previous behavior
3. Additional accusations of misconduct were made
4. Franken asked for an Ethics Committee hearing. His request was submitted to the Ethics Committee
5. Tina Dupuy, a Democratic former Congressional Aide publicly came forward with a new accusation.

There was no "rush to judgement" and nobody "forced" Franken to leave.

[Trumpocalypse]

70. Thanks

I still think that even the Ethics Committee is evenly balanced, the Republicans would have used the hearings to embarrass Franken and call any Democrat who stood up for him a hypocrite.

[Brainstormy]

77. No. Franklin was screwed.

and that's why I could never vote for Gillibrand UNLESS she gets the nomination, which ain't happening. IMO, two Gillibrands aren't worth one Franken.

[Trumpocalypse]

78. Yes, Franken was screwed

but more by circumstances than by the actions of any one person.

[aeromanKC]

3. Biden, Harris, Beto, Buttegieg, Warren, Klochabar, Inslee, Booker, Castro, Bullock,.....

The Dem bench is too deep to have a candidate like Gillibrand where a large percentage of voters have to hold their nose and vote for.

[qazplm135]

4. you could say the same about half the field

Booker comes across well, so does Harris, so does Beto, and while not my cup of tea obviously Sanders inspires millions of people with his speeches.

So I mean, if being charming, prepared and a good speaker are your criteria, you might need to expand your criteria, because a good chunk of our candidates have that. None of them are as..charisma challenged as Hillary was.

[underthematrix]

5. I'm watching her townhall as well. She's able to talk about her policies in terms of

people's individual experiences.

[Trumpocalypse]

6. She is talking a good game

but doubt if there will be any follow through.

[Amimnoch]

7. Too bitter about Franken myself, but did make some great points.

I liked the point about 1 year of public service for 2 years of college, 2 years of public service for 4 years of free college or tradeschool.

A great expansion idea I had on it might be 2/4 year degrees for post graduate skilled public service, especially if medical field related, and using the public service to bolster free clinics, preventative health care services.

[Blue_true]

14. I like the 1 year for 2 year approach also.

I also like the idea that anyone that agrees to teach in K-12 for 10 years get 70% of their college debt paid off, if they make teaching a career, they get the 30% that they paid refunded back to them plus average interest over their career past 10 years.

[wasupaloopa]

8. We had a very good Senator. He was exceptionally

good questioning those who came before his committee.

He was very liberal. He wrote a book about the conservatives.

So one day some folks on the right brought charges against him. Without any investigation he was pushed out of office by other Senators.

We are less without him.

He stood way above Gillibrand.

I would like to see her drop out as early as possible.

[Trumpocalypse]

9. Yet you're supporting Harris

who called for Franken to resign within minutes of Gillibrand, was the first to go on TV to say Franken should resign and immediately benefited by getting Franken’s seat on the Judiciary committee.

[Blue_true]

16. I don't understand why Gillibrand is being singled out.

I hear the complaint often that she influenced the other Senators. If she can do that she is serious presidential material because effective Presidents have always influenced people to achieve more than people thought that they could achieve.

[Trumpocalypse]

51. Don't you know

Gillibrand drugged or hypnotized all the other Senators to follow her, then went to Franken’s office with the resignation letter and a gun, and told Franken either his signature or his brains would be on the letter.

[Blue_true]

54. The old "Make him an offer that he can't refuse tactic".

Darn, why didn't I figure that out!

[wasupaloopa]

19. I said Senators plural

[Trumpocalypse]

22. But you're still supporting Harris

who had as big a role in Franken’s resignation as any other Senator.

[Funtatlaguy]

25. Wrong. Gillibrand was first and the most vocal.

[Trumpocalypse]

31. First by less than 5 minutes

And not the most vocal but the one the media focused on.

[crazycatlady]

15. A total of 8 women accused him

One of them was a Democratic staffer. Not all were on the right.

It is possible to pose for photos without grabbing booty. His actions remind me of that DJ that groped Taylor Swift.

[Blue_true]

20. One was a staffer for a democratic congressman and two others were young women that had

volunteered a lot of time to working on democratic candidate campaigns. As far as I remember reading only the radio host was marginally rightwing and there was a second evangelical woman who was likely rightwing. The others had pretty solid Democratic Party involvement.

[wasupaloopa]

21. You see it one way but without any rebuttals

Maybe you are wrong.

We have a history of innocent till proven guilty.

[Trumpocalypse]

24. Innocent until proven guilty is a criminal standard

Franken was never changed with a crime. He lost a job.

[crazycatlady]

43. Would you see it different if he were a Republican senator?

Was there outrage when Congressman Pat Meehan resigned without an investigation?

I'm saying this as someone who WAS groped while in middle school. He was the popular Big Man on campus type. With the way the school treated me, I was sorry for even bothering to bring it up. I was given detention and it only furthered my status as an outcast. Women should not be treated like that for dare speaking up. My own mother didn't even stand by me. Our bodies do not exist for men's pleasure.

Look, #metoo is going to claim the careers of politicians on the left and right. I thought Eric Schnidermann was a great AG and he was preparing cases against Trump (this was the #metoo loss that stung hardest for me). I thought Anthony Wiener was a good Congressman and was a real fighter for 9/11 First Responders. I don't recall either having investigations.

At the end of the day, AL Franken's resignation probably saved us from having a pedophile in the Senate and flipped ALABAMA blue (something I didn't think I'd live to see).

I like Senator Gillibrand because she actually believes women. If coming forward against a popular boy at school is hard, I could only imagine how hard it would be to come forward against a Senator. My own mother did not believe me when I came forward, let alone anyone at the school. These women deserve to have someone who will believe and listen to them.

[riversedge]

10. I find her to be intelligent, and articulate. I have not

had opportunity to get to know her before and find this very informative.

[Andy823]

50. I agree

This was the first time I have seen her in a town hall setting, and I like what I saw.

[riversedge]

11. She is very open on refuges and asylumseekers.

[Blue_true]

13. Some here don't like her.

I think that she has been pretty principled on fighting the nationwide issue of sexual assault and sexual harrassment. She did stumble with firing a long term male employee that got caught up in Sexual harrassment against a young staffer, but it was not as bad as what happened with Bernie in 2016, not that any slow action to punish an abuser is better than another action or simple inaction.

[handmade34]

17. not so much about liking her or not

it is just that there are a number of candidates that are so much better... not that my opinion counts for much but, I would like to see Gillibrand and Bernie both drop out and give the better candidates more room

[Trumpocalypse]

27. Sanders won't drop out

Gillibrand probably will. I suspect she is really running for VP.

[CanonRay]

23. My opinion of her improved substantially

I thought she had a good Franken answer

[riversedge]

28. I agree, She did have a good Franken response and glad she was asked about it. I think

the audience clapping was somewhat muted though on this issue, which makes me sad.

[yodermon]

34. yep, thought she was great. Kamala is right, we have an embarrassment of riches this cycle n/t

[Mme. Defarge]

26. self-deleted message

[Trumpocalypse]

29. Along with

Warren, Harris, Booker, Sanders and over 30 other Senators.

[redstateblues]

30. I love Al-but sorry- he's an idiot

You just can't do that stuff in today's climate. Damn it Al. Why?

[Funtatlaguy]

36. Still waiting to hear what he was Specifically Convicted of doing.

[bitterross]

38. Yes, god forbid you put your arm around a contituent for a PIC.

Seriously? Just what did he do wrong "in today's climate?" The USO shows were years ago and USO shows have been all about T&A since they started. I'm not saying that's a good thing or that they should have been that way. I'm just stating a fact. Holding him to a higher standard than others for his acts on those shows is wrong.

[crazycatlady]

47. It is possible to pose for a picture without grabbing booty

I have pictures with (probably) 2 candidates in the presidential primary. Both Cory Booker and Joe Biden have put their arm around me for the picture. Neither grabbed my ass.

[bitterross]

65. That's true. Franken didn't "grab booty."

It's funny, I know that, for example, getting into and out of cars or rows of seats or otherwise normal interactions, I've accidentally touched another person's breast, chest, crotch, or behind. Even while taking pictures I've accidentally snuggled too close and come in contact with body parts I never intended to touch. I don't take the massive number of pictures a politician takes so I'd say the odds are someone like Franken has a much higher chance of accidental touch then I do.

So, since I'm not perfect and I can see where the accident might have happened I'm not going to judge. You keep on judging a person who has done nothing but try to represent the people and make things better. The GOP loves you for it. They love you for the fact that you'll do it again and again and, by doing so, make their work defeating Democrats and Democratic causes easier.

[crazycatlady]

67. I love how you dismiss his actions as accidental

I suggest you read up on what these women are accusing him of doing. None of this sounds accidental.
https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/nedd8b/what-8-women-have-said-al-franken-did-to-them

You sound like you're dismissing their stories just because you like Al Franken. Your posts takes me back to middle school when I was groped (by a popular boy) and everyone dismissed me (and it hurt my reputation for coming forward. I was actually given detention.). Not even my own mother believed me. My response was "this happens. Boys will be boys." I'm happy that we finally have someone in a position of power that actually WILL listen to women and believe them.

I'm sorry that I didn't get the memo that this forum is the Al Franken fan club and it is against the TOS here for believing women. Excuse me while I go pray at the altar of DU's patron saint. He was replaced with another Democrat, a woman, not a Republican. He was just another senator to me-- and did nothing special to stand out from the other Democratic senators (admittedly, I'm too young to remember his SNL career and I cut the cord on TV, so I'm not watching cable news all day). The day he was accused, I immediately cancelled the library hold I had on his book.

And he wouldn't have gotten in the race alongside Amy Klobuchar anyways (rarely do two people from the same state get in-- probably why we didn't see Kirsten Gillibrand or Andrew Cuomo candidacies in 2016).

There was a DJ who posed for a picture with Taylor Swift. At the time of the photo, he grabbed her ass. (She later ended up taking him to court for it and won). He thinks he did nothing wrong and tried to sue HER for damaging his career. (Yes because it is her fault when the poor dudebro can't keep his hands to himself. After all, the body of one of the biggest music stars in the world exists solely for men to grope </s&gt . I see Franken's actions in the same way I see the DJ's actions. The difference is that these women aren't multi millionaire household names who can use their star power to advance the cause.

What I don't like is how Kirsten Gillibrand is considered Satan on this forum. For a Democratic forum, I would not expect so much hatred towards a sitting Democratic senator (who won in November with 67% of the vote).

PS-- I am more saddened by the resignation of former NY attorney general Eric Schnidermann. I wanted him to join the next Democratic president's cabinet as AG. He was (and his female successor still is) going after Trump and his cohorts with charges that are un pardonable.

[bitterross]

71. Now I understand. You're punishing Franken for your childhood.

What a shame you have to punish Al Franken for something that happened to you. I'm sorry that happened to you. It was wrong. It's also wrong to take your anger over that and project it onto Franken.

Not a single accusation against Franken has been proven. Not a single accusation against Franken has been proven to be more than just a misunderstanding.

When it came to Trump and Kavanaugh, we had lots of corroborating evidence to support that their pattern of behavior made it extremely likely they were guilty of the accusations against them. THAT was the big difference. We had Trump himself admitting, on tape, that he forced himself on women. We had multiple people saying Kavanaugh was a black-out drunk.

We had seven women (Leeann Tweeden is not credible) who describe experiences with Franken. Franken does not deny they had contact. There is a difference of opinion on what the intent of Franken's actions were. I believe Franken that there were no inappropriate intentions. That's not me siding with a man over siding with a woman. That's not me saying "boys will be boys." That is me choosing to believe someone who has a good reputation when he apologizes for making other people feel uncomfortable and abused when he had no intention of doing so.

It seems you want to interpret everything on a very black and white basis. Franken is a man, a woman said he abused her - so he did. End of story. Life is not black and white and people see things differently. I do not question the word of the women who spoke out. I believe the interactions took place. I believe they feel they were abused in some way. I just don't believe that was Franken's intent. I don't think he intended to use his power to assault them.

[crazycatlady]

75. It is not one woman, it is 8

And who are you to judge whether a woman is credible or not. Last time I checked, political affiliation had nothing to do with a victim's credibility. This is a textbook example of why not all women are comfortable with coming forward because they feel they'll have their credibility and character attacked (as you did for Leann Tweeden). One of his victims specifically did not give her name in fear of internet attacks (like those on Tweeden).

Per the article I posted before. The first incident is a Democratic staffer.

<<This week on Dec. 6, the former aide told Politico that the senator tried to “forcibly kiss her” after a taping of his radio show in 2006. She said that she ducked to avoid him and that, as she tried to leave the room, Franken told her: “It’s my right as an entertainer.”>>

<<A former elected official of a New England state told Jezebel on Nov. 30 that Franken tried to give her a “wet, open-mouthed kiss” onstage during an event in 2006, one year before he announced his Senate run. “It was onstage in front of a full theater,” she said. “It was insidious. It was in plain sight and yet nobody saw it.”>>

The incident when he says "it's my right as an entertainer" is very similar to the first line in the infamous Access Hollywood tape. The latter started with "when you're a star..."


But yes I'm a GOP enabler who sees things in black and white because I choose to believe women and I stand behind a senator who has a history of standing up for sexual assault victims over a man who has groped 8 women and I would not want anywhere near my (hypothetical) daughter.

[yodermon]

32. Just listened to this on TuneIn

If I come in agnostic on Franken i think she was great; exceeded my expectations. Thought she sounded just a bit over enthusiastic at times, but so what.

Agree on all your points.

I think she could have handled the Franken situation better without betraying sexual assault victims.

[tulipsandroses]

33. I don't have any thoughts on her but that poem read by the teacher

brought me to tears. She had a great response.

[nolabear]

41. Me too, but I wanted more in her response.

But we’ll see. I’d like the text of that poem though. It was shattering.

[TheCowsCameHome]

35. Certainly she can be your candidate.

She will never be mine, though.

[nolabear]

40. I thought she did seem mechanical. Some answers were fine

but she seemed prepared rather than thoughtful. I admit I hold a grudge because of Franken and she didn’t help that any with her reply.

That poem by the refugee child broke me. I wish she’d been a bit more deeply touched by some of the stories. I know, politicians...but she doesn’t do it for me.

[comradebillyboy]

42. I thought she did a reasonably good job.

[rzemanfl]

46. I will come back to see if that post removed person posts here. n/t

[WeekiWater]

53. She is flat out awesome.

I try to keep that to myself around these parts.

People need one person they can blame for Frankens downfall. She is it.

[Trumpocalypse]

58. Seems unfair

[WeekiWater]

60. It is unfair.

So is what happened to Franken. Few seem to be able to process those two thoughts at the same time.

[StTimofEdenRoc]

56. Anyone else will do.

[Polly Hennessey]

57. I remain unimpressed.

I was bringing my dog back from the groomers and heard her on the radio. Not pleasant to hear. Talking very fast with an unpleasant high pitch. Sounded to me as though she was making it up as she was talking. No real original thought and I do not believe she was sincere. Cannot envision her as our nominee. We will lose.

[LiberalFighter]

59. Her pile on with Franken turned me off from her.

[seaglass]

68. I am also impressed with her and disagree with those who blame her for Franken's departure.

I would happily vote for her for President.

[FakeNoose]

81. I agree with you, if she's our candidate I can live with her

I thought Senator Gillibrand was impressive last night on Chris Hayes' show. Kristin will never be my first choice in the primary, but if she becomes our Party's candidate next year, I will support her. We still have a long way to go, and I'm waiting to see if Joe Biden jumps in the race.

[Charlie G]

69. Support who you want

But she will never be our candidate because there are too many people like me. I will not even listen to her because of Franken.

[Trumpocalypse]

72. I assume the same is true

about Warren, Harris, Booker and Sanders. All of whom called for Franken to resign the very same morning, some in less than minutes.

[Charlie G]

74. She was the first one

and given the environment then with #metoo they were afraid of being left behind. If she had not come out first and so vocally, they would have never said anything. But at that time #metoo looked like it would be a very powerful movement. She wanted to be its political face. Smart move politically, but the #metoo movement died out quicker and to a greater extent than anyone could have foreseen. The irony is what happened to Franken is probably a major reason it died out. Many of the natural supporters of #metoo reassessed their feelings towards it when they saw what happened to Franken. He was not only a Senator, he was also a star on SNL and a all around nice guy. I will guarantee you 100% that he would have been our candidate and beaten Trump in 2020. That is why she and the Republicans had to eliminate him.

[Trumpocalypse]

76. So they were just all blind followers?

Doesn't speak well of them. Plus some like Harris were less than 5 minutes later. Sound more like an effort that was previously co-ordinated and agreed to by everyone involved.

As far as your accusations, can you site any evidence from credible sources that proves them? Please provide links.

[Charlie G]

80. Just what I think and why I can never support her

However, I know I can be completely wrong about this. But there are enough people who think the way I do so that she will never be our candidate.

[theophilus]

73. She had been "off" my top five list, too. Hearing her made me rethink. I know

many claim to refuse her because of the Franken thing but Hayes brought it up and she handled the question well, imo. Mr. Franken is a great Democrat but he had his chance to fight the allegations and he bailed. Even if KG made a mistake we should not slam the door on her. Look at what we are dealing with. Her mind is sharp and she does not come off as scolding, imo. She is back on my possible list. The others need to imitate many of her policy plans, like Medicare buy in and Family Leave, etc.

[Trumpocalypse]

79. Bailed is a bit harsh

I prefer to look at is as he took one for the team.