Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumThe way Biden has gone after Trump tells me everything I need to know about a possible GE campaign
He's not going to let Trump off the hook on anything. If he's the nominee, there's no question he'll take the fight directly to Trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JI7
(89,182 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
More_Cowbell
(2,190 posts)Which Democratic nominee wouldn't do that?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)See Dukakis, Kerry and even Hillary.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
More_Cowbell
(2,190 posts)Which potential nominee wouldn't do it in 2020?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)I'm not a psychic. I can't tell how certain candidates would handle certain major issues like this.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
karynnj
(59,475 posts)However, I think Kerry overperformed the likely results of going after Bush, who was above 60 percent in late 2003. In August 2004, the main complaint from the Clinton Democrats was that he should not speak of Vietnam. After he lost, Bill Clinton led the others complaining that. unlike the Clintons, did not fight back hard enough.
In fact, Kerry already had given the media access to all his records - which were uniformly positive. In all previous times, responding with the documents would be exactly the right thing to do. What happened in 2004 was a media that was afraid to call out the Bush campaign or ask why no one in power at the Republican convention spoke against the disgusting bandaids. Had the media done so, it might even have made the attacks backfire. By November, per polls, it looked like very few people who were not already ideologically against Trump believed the lies. What they might have done was to make it harder for Kerry to use the incredible personal character references that came from his guys. However, had there been adequate voting machines in Ohio, Kerry would have pulled off an unexpected victory against Bush.
Kerry ran a high road campaign, where he dealt with most issues very well and attacked Bush harder than he is given credit for. Do you remember of him speaking of the ammo dumps left unsecured, as the US military secured the oil records elsewhere, that were used to create the make shift bombs that were "maiming and killing our kids". Remember that he blamed Bush for "outsourcing the capture of Bin Laden to the Afghan warlords who were previously allied with the Taliban? THOSE charges and his excellent debates made the election close. Many pundits noted that Kerry was surging at the end until the OBL tape put out a few days before the election.
As to Hillary Clinton, she was put in the position in the debates of often being her own attack dog - savaging Trump. She was cheered on here when her attacks were the harshest such as saying that some part of Trump's base were "deplorables". No one in - say October 2016 - would have argued that she was not attacking hard - she was.
Another point is that none of these attacks were "trivial". All attacked very important pieces of who the Democrat was. For Dukakis, it questioned the reality of the "Massachusetts Miracle", for Kerry it attacked his service and his character, for HRC the attacks coincided with the two strongest anti Clinton memes around for decades -- that she was secretive and that she changed positions as political winds changed.
Biden is doing the right thing taking this directly to Trump. It is also good that many Obama administration people are also speaking out. I would not be surprised if the announced speech on this has a "Reverend Wright" component - where he speaks of his love for a son, who has had a tough time getting his act together. From all accounts, it seems that Hunter Biden, broke no laws here, but it is problematic that the Ukrainians who gave him the position likely did so thinking they were buying access. Hunter was and is a private citizen and there is no legal reason he could not do this - and his parent had absolutely no control over the actions of an adult son. Joe Biden has already made clear that NOTHING he or the Obama administration was done in support of Hunter Biden.
Over the last decade, I have often seen a pattern where very strong attacks on the Republicans are cheered wildly - even though they sometimes seemed to not help and even weaken support for our position on the issue. (Strong attacks like those of the Parkland students are the exception)
None of our candidates have yet had the pressure that the nominee will get -- even Joe Biden. It is a good point that we should look at whether there reaction to criticism is "brittle".
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
napi21
(45,806 posts)and get people to believe his lies! Think back to the 2016 campaign. Basically, he made stuff up about all 18 of his Pug opponents. e did sometimes insert a germ of truth to make it sound possible and people believed the whole lie.
You can't win when your opposition floods the airwaves with so many lies, you can't prove them all wrong. This time is worse because he's got the FREE AIRTIME when the news reports what he says, and the opposition just can't pay for enough TV time to fight him off.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dawg day
(7,947 posts)and deal with the calumny from this terrible, terrible man Trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)persisted in showing that Trump is antithetical to our shared democratic values. Sure, others can fight Trump. None have done so with as much authority and eloquence as Biden.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)I have not seen Biden do so.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
jcgoldie
(11,584 posts)Elizabeth Warren was one of the first candidates to say it was a moral imperative to impeach Trump. Joe Biden has yet to get there. Doesn't seem like she has any problem taking the fight to Trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,352 posts)40 moderates who are endangered if they vote for impeachment...it would be one thing if we cold get rid of the psychopath, but we can't. The right wingers in the Senate will make certain of this. I doubt the votes are there in the house either...and if we do and the Senate acquits him or refuses to take it up..Trump declares victory. Warren's stance on this makes me doubt her judgement on political matters. For those who opine that it is our moral duty to impeach Trump, I say it is our moral duty to make sure he loses in 2020...IE remove him from office. There is not greater task than this.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jcgoldie
(11,584 posts)I would clip some but Wapo wont let me open it now.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,352 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jcgoldie
(11,584 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,352 posts)the only evidence will be when we find ourselves with Trump getting four more years and the house gone...I see no reason when we are a year away from removing Trump via elections in taking a chance with impeachment with no shot at conviction...explain what will be accomplished during impeachment when in the end Trump stays in office?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jcgoldie
(11,584 posts)And not letting them trash the Constitution by stonewalling. The evidence I'm referring to is something to support your huge assumption that investigating Trump's crimes in the House will somehow make it more difficult for Democrats to win in 2020.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,352 posts)not just the presidency...but the House too. Impeaching Trump will not remove him from office so he can still trash the constitution and continue to stonewall...those who think we will get documents during impeachment are wrong...he will continue to defy Congress and the courts will help him. If Nancy goes for Impeachment, I will support it and her but I hope she hasn't been pushed into it by the 'we must take action now no matter what the repercussions crowd". Trump winning another term is unthinkable and if we work hard and play our cards correctly, he should be out in 2020 when he loses the election.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jcgoldie
(11,584 posts)And it appears impeachment is pending so I suppose we will find out.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
yellowdogintexas
(22,119 posts)He knows that this is his last run and he is not going to hold back against the Monster.
I have been noticing another voice that has been getting louder and more forceful daily and that is Beto O'Rourke. These two tough Irish fighters would be a great team and I do not think they would let up even for a second for the entire campaign...
Of course neither would Biden/Warren or Warren/O'Rourke for that matter. These are our fighters. I am enjoying every single thing they throw at him
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Sugarcoated
(7,707 posts)That's the ticket right there! 👊👊👊
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)especially since the base is female and minority.
But keep on dreaming.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JI7
(89,182 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)that doesn't mean they ALSO want one for VP in the general.
It would be a slap in the face to women and minorities if we put two white men on the ticket.
And if Trump is running, and we had two white men, he would be nuts not to swap Pence out with someone like Nikki Haley (who is one of the few who managed to not leave under a cloud.)
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)pick the best candidate, period. If that's a white man, so be it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)to say two white men will be the best we can manage. And we can be certain Trump will counter by putting someone like Haley on his ticket.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
cannabis_flower
(3,764 posts)Trump and Pence are two white guys too. Although, I would prefer Warren, I would vote for Biden/O'Rourke in a minute!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)from suburban women or from minorities to counter an All-white-male Democratic ticket?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)take him back behind the barn and give him what-for.
I just love it when men go all macho like that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)not swaggering and macho.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)The Dotard cannot be beat that way or Hillary would be POTUS. Saying he was going to "beat him like a drum" was just right. You have to hit the Orange Bully with his own type of crap.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)and the suppression of millions of votes -- not because she didn't say things like: "I'm going to beat him like a drum."
As it was, she only had 70K fewer votes than Obama in 2012, and 80K fewer in the three states that turned a 2.9 million popular vote win into an Electoral College loss.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,352 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,352 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jcgoldie
(11,584 posts)Turning it into a match of threats and machismo just validates that asshole. Wrestling with pigs and all...
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
treestar
(82,383 posts)Though she did win the popular vote. In the swing states, being macho is not looked down on the way liberals do. Dotard is going to be validated by the media and they will be calling our candidate a pussy and all their other vile terms.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jcgoldie
(11,584 posts)Seems to me you should rethink the sexism inherent in this statement.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
treestar
(82,383 posts)Blaming the messenger. I despise this kind of thing. I am talking of what others will say. That was unfair of you.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jcgoldie
(11,584 posts)Pretty sure the media won't be calling anyone "a pussy". That was your choice.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
treestar
(82,383 posts)I was quoting the deplorables. It is wrong to do the kind of thing you did twice. And a lot of Americans still think like that. You should address them about their sexism rather than pretending it is me.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jcgoldie
(11,584 posts)Then in a very real practical way you have contributed to that sexist choice.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)districts, through new voter ID requirements, cutbacks in voting days and hours -- all enabled by the dismantling of the 1965 Voting Rights Act in 2013, after Obama's re-election.
Trump WANTS us to believe it was his superior campaigning. We're suckers to fall for that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,352 posts)not us...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jcgoldie
(11,584 posts)I guess I will have to inform everyone in the red rural southern Illinois community where I have lived for my 46 years on earth that I "don't get the Midwest."
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,352 posts)I was a navy brat...born at Great Lakes in fact. My Dad came from Chicago and My Mom (the Lieutenant) was a navy nurse born in rural Virginia. I have lived many different places...as an adult I married a auto guy (second marriage after a disastrous teen marriage and divorce before my 21st birthday) and we moved a great deal as plant after plant shut down...the voters here in Ohio voted for Trump because he promised to fix manufacturing and bring back jobs...many regret it now. Trump is under water here...but Warren isn't going to win Ohio, or Pennsylvania with policy speak and I like her personally...nope we need someone who can put together the Obama Biden coalition ...and that would be Biden. And a little tough talk won't hurt our efforts in the Mid West or anywhere.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jcgoldie
(11,584 posts)Seriously?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,352 posts)It is not the same culture as Illiniois. I should say the rust belt where the votes are that we need is not the same as Illinois...it just isn't IMHO...you can disagree of course. However, I predict should EW be the candidate, we lose the EC and win the popular vote. I would vote for her and do my best, but she won't win the Mid Western states we need for an electoral college victory...Mi, WI and PA. I think we could win Ohio with Biden too...which would destroy any chance of a Trump victory. Also, Biden helps with the Senate too.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jcgoldie
(11,584 posts)...in some significant way. Of course every state is unique in some ways, but the only significant cultural difference that I see pertaining to voting habits is that Illinois has Chicago which makes it reliably blue. Of course the voting habits and diversity of Chicago are not remotely similar to downstate. Your statement was that I "don't get the Midwest." And then you followed that up with some ridiculous argument about how Illinois is not really part of the Midwest. This will come as a huge surprise to 99% of Illinoisans I can assure you.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,352 posts)manufacturing...then the globalist decided to give away our jobs...overseas they went...millions of jobs...once beautiful areas ...our cities destroyed. Cleveland almost went under...a dedicated group saved the theaters (playhouse square) and other landmarks...but it was and is bad. Detroit is struggling to come back...Youngstown makes you want to weep...and Warren took a big hit with the loss of Lordstown GM.
Trump offered a rebirth in manufacturing...he lied and now we have a sho as folks are pissed. How is the GM strike affecting you or is it? Hubs job lose the second shit yesterday because of it and we may be unemployed by next week. The GM strike is affecting PA, MI and parts plants in WI too. It is also affecting Ohio and Indiana.
Is Illinois even affected? Illinois has not experienced this sort of thing to the degree the rust belt has...Chicago was not destroyed or almost destroyed as were Cleveland and Detroit...it is a different experience and I believe you said you are rural too. When Trump ran in 16, Illinois went for Hillary...different perspective...we need to win back those blue wall states that went for Trump narrowly.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jcgoldie
(11,584 posts)Other than that there is no difference. If you believe Illinois has not lost manufacturing jobs then its you who "doesn't get the Midwest."
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,352 posts)Cleveland and Cincinnati...PA has Pittsburgh and Philadelphia...we have cities...that is not the issue...we continue to lose jobs right now...we lost a plant recently and Parma is on life support...it is an issue here right now...not the same in Illinois...who's substantial losses were more than three decades ago.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,606 posts)Illinois has voted blue in the last 7 presidential elections. I dont see that changing any time soon.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,352 posts)just down state...which is why our cities were on their deathbed and are still recovering.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)voter suppression, and how many voters in the midwest and rust belt. were affected by the dismantling of the Voting Rights Act in 2013.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,352 posts)the truth...and the feeling I get here is...Trump is bad...they will vote for Biden but not for Warren whom they feel will probably make things worse...that is what I hear.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)I still don't have a first choice, but my sister and her husband love Warren.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Sugarcoated
(7,707 posts)She didn't get out the vote in the urban areas, Philly/Pittsburgh in big enough numbers to overcome the woodchuck hollow votes, and secondly, she didn't connect with blue collar democrats. Most held their nose and voted for her but many only voted down ticket or stayed home. Again, she didn't gotv in the burbs around Philly and Pittsburgh, NE Philly, Scranton, Wilkes-Barre, State College, Johnstown. Biden connects with those exact voters like moths to a flame.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CousinIT
(9,151 posts)I've seen that. I think he'd have a field day with Trump. He can be a BULLDOG.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kahuna7
(2,531 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
jrandom421
(999 posts)Trump committed the two unpardonable sins of pollical campaigning
First, he went after Joe's family, attacking Hunter, ensuring that he'd turn a sharply spoken candidate into a protective enraged father. Going after Joe's surviving son like this will focus all the rage, contempt and drive Joe has to dismantling Trump. Which leads to the second unpardonable sin which is....
Trump made it personal, turning a political campaign into a blood feud. It's what's going to sustain Joe through the campaign, and focus his efforts to take it all away from Trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Mike 03
(16,616 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)always has to make it a personal, blood feud.
And his spawn are beneficiaries of a double standard, of course.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,352 posts)I don't like guns...My Grandpa hunted, and I was around guns, taught to use them...forced to eat small animals...yuck. However, on a cold day in West Virginia when I was just 20, I made a credible effort to kill a man and his buddies who threatened me and more importantly my two year old...they were strangers who showed up and wanted to 'party'. Lucky for them I grabbed the shotgun and it bucked (not a proper gun for a lady Grandpa always said). We had no phone...lived out on seven acres in the middle of nowhere.
The anger and hatred you feel when your child is endangered or attacked is indescribable. And it never ends...you feel the same about teens and adult kids. After my divorce, my parents sent me to school. I couldn't even sacrifice a mouse in Biology, but I had made a real effort to kill those men. The power of a parent's love for and willingness to go to any length to defend their young is a force of nature. Trump will be sorry he attacked Hunter Biden.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redstatebluegirl
(12,264 posts)Trump clearly fears him, as do most Republicans I know who are connected to the party. They all say he will beat the orange menace.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,352 posts)But of course he will go after the orange piece of crap in the general...he has gone after Trump the entire campaign and unlike other candidates has not gone after fellow Democrats.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Skya Rhen
(2,701 posts)his enemies - Trump is.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
world wide wally
(21,719 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(144,005 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)I believe in 2016, Hillary turned the other cheek too much, out of difference to norms and class behavior.
I want a nominee who will step into the mud with that pig and his followers and stomp them in their gonads.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(144,005 posts)Link to tweet
From the perspective of Ukrainian legislation, he did not violate anything, former Ukrainian prosecutor general Yuri Lutsenko told The Washington Post in his first interview since the disclosure of a whistleblower complaint alleging pressure by President Trump on Ukraines president, Volodymr Zelensky.
Lutsenkos comments about Hunter Biden which echo what he told Bloomberg News in May were significant, because Trump and his personal attorney Giuliani have sought to stir up suspicions about both Hunter and former vice president Joe Bidens conduct in Ukraine in recent weeks. Joe Biden is leading Trump in many opinion polls ahead of the 2020 election.
Hunter Biden has denied any wrongdoing, and there is no evidence he was involved in any lawbreaking in his work in Ukraine with the countrys largest private gas company.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden