Bernie Sanders Worries Impeachment Could Lead To Trump Saying He's "Vindicated"

[TomCADem]

I guess Tulsi Gabbard is not alone in second guessing the moves of House Democrats to begin impeachment proceedings. Interesting that Bernie also is keeping his powder dry regarding Trump's accusations against Hunter Biden.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/rubycramer/bernie-sanders-inches-toward-supporting-impeaching-trump

When asked if he believed Democrats should avoid wading into questions about Hunter Biden — like when he told voters during a 2016 debate that he’d rather talk about the issues facing Americans than Hillary Clinton’s “damn emails” — Sanders said only he didn’t know enough about the subject to comment.

“I know I’m a little bit old-fashioned. I like to see the evidence before I talk about things. I read the papers and I read what I read,” said Sanders. “But I don’t know that I know enough at this point to make any definitive statement."

* * *

Sanders has been more hesitant than some of his rivals on impeachment, expressing concerns about whether House Democrats should proceed with an impeachment vote when Republicans, he says, would back Trump regardless of what an inquiry might find. “Here’s the dilemma that you have,” Sanders told reporters on Tuesday. “Now I don’t know — I’ll tell you that my gut is that the average Republican in the Senate and the House is totally intimidated by President Trump. And at this particular point, I have my doubts, like you all. I have my doubts that any Republican, or very few, would vote against him.”

“My fear,” Sanders said, is that if an impeachment vote failed in the Republican-controlled Senate, where it would need two-thirds support to pass, “I know and you know what Trump will do: ‘I am vindicated! … I am vindicated!’ And I think that is a fact that has to be taken into consideration.”

[Cha]

1. Who the **** cares what

trump LIES about?!

NO FEAR!

[customerserviceguy]

2. While I often disagree with Sen. Sanders

I think he has a point here. What is an impeachable offense is not only the decision of the House of Representatives, it also means that two-thirds of the Senate must agree.

The Founding Fathers clearly intended that popular passions would be restrained by a body that keeps two-thirds of its membership in every biennial election.

[TwilightZone]

9. No, the House determines what an impeachable offense is.

The Senate has no involvement in that determination.

Impeachment and the potential trial are two different things.

[customerserviceguy]

11. Ok, I misspoke

The Senate determines what is a removable offense. Is that better?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. Of course that's a risk and everyone knows it.

But I don't see how they can not impeach him, because not doing it would be effectively saying he can do whatever he wants without any consequences. It's become so bad that they really have no choice. Of course they should ultimately have all the evidence they can get, but if what's been discovered in the last few days isn't the equivalent of probable cause - enough to start the process - I don't know what is. Why is Bernie hesitating?

[TomCADem]

5. Elizabeth Warren Pointed Out There Is No Political Convenience Exception...

...to the Constitution with respect to impeachment.

Trump was threatening to withhold Congressionally approved military aid to the Ukraine, which was the victim of Russian aggression, unless the Ukraine supported Barr and Giuliani's efforts to support allegations made against Hunter Biden. Thus, it was a twofer. Trump was trying to help Russia and hurt Joe Biden.

[Cha]

14. Elizabeth for the WIN! Well stated!

[LuvLoogie]

7. Bernie isn't hesitating. He's hedging. He's the unDemocrat seeking to differentiate himself.

As always.

[NurseJackie]

13. Thank you!

[thesquanderer]

19. It's a valid concern, but one of two equally bad outcomes.

House impeaches, Senate fails to convict = "I'm vindicated!"

House doesn't even impeach = "I didn't do anything so bad. If it was really so awful, why didn't they impeach? They couldn't, because they knew the grounds weren't really there."

Ultimately, to me, the excuse of "the Senate won't convict" must not prevent impeachment... otherwise we're telling every future president that, as long as their party controls the Senate, they can basically do whatever they want.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

20. Exactly. And if the Senate doesn't convict even after being presented with

overwhelming evidence of Trump's wrongdoing, it will be, as Richard Painter has said, like an all-white Mississippi jury in the '50s acquitting a white man of lynching a black man. Hang that albatross around the GOP's neck.

[TCJ70]

4. Same argument many made here in opposition to impeachment...

...it’s a garbage argument against doing the right thing.

[thesquanderer]

21. Arguments against doing the right thing are a recurring concern lately...

...as we have candidates who have positions that many feel are the right thing to do, while others say, even if you think the candidate is saying the right thing, you can't vote that way because that position will cost us too many votes. It's a tricky problem. Whether it's a single payer health system, (which abolishes private health insurance for most purposes), or decriminalizing border crossing (so an undocumented immigrant gets a fine but not jail or a criminal record), or letting incarcerated people vote, or discussing reparations. Where do you draw the line between "it's the right thing to do, but it's not the right time yet" vs. "I have to stand for what I think is right, no matter what."

That line probably moves further when the result of a loss means more years of Trump... but it's always going to mean something bad. I mean, if Trump were out, and it was Pence, would you really feel that much less urgency in defeating him? Probably not.

[LincolnRossiter]

6. For the record, it's not an invalid concern.

He’d love nothing more than to say “look, I was witch-hunted but ultimately acquitted.” Mueller’s report was nearly as damning as it could have been and he was able to muddy that into a murky “us vs. them.”

Of course it could go the other way. My pawpaw used to say “when it’s not clear which option is to your advantage, you may as well do the right thing.”

[TomCADem]

8. What Do You Think About Bernie's Comments Regarding Hunter Biden?

Bernie does not sound like he is opposing Senate Republican efforts to start a counter-inquiry of Joe Biden:

“I know I’m a little bit old-fashioned. I like to see the evidence before I talk about things. I read the papers and I read what I read,” said Sanders. “But I don’t know that I know enough at this point to make any definitive statement."

It almost sounds like Sanders is inviting such an investigation so that he can "see the evidence."

[Cha]

10. Sure he would..

**BREAKING ** Former Ukraine prosecutor says Hunter Biden 'did not violate anything'

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287293616

[LincolnRossiter]

12. For a socialist, in theory, Bernie's always been a pretty selfish, one-way fucker. Not surprised.

He’s not a team player. And to the extent that he is, only his disciples are his team—not democrats.

He still has a little bit of a point about impeachment.

[TomCADem]

15. The Thing Is That You Have To Protect the Whistleblowers

A patriot at great risk to his or herself made a complaint through proper channels. Trump is literally threatening to have him prosecuted for treason. If we do not stand up to Trump, what is to keep Trump from engaging in increasingly blatant corrupt acts?

I am sure a foreign power is currently hacking away at campaigns across the board. As the primaries begin, expect these emails to be publicized with Fox, Trump, Republicans and maybe even a certain "Democrat" or two ready to coordinate their campaign to capitalize on such disclosures.

It happened in 2016. It will happen again, and it is unlikely that Trump's blatant effort to strong arm a Russian adversary is an isolated event.

The key is will we fall for it again. When social media lights up with so-called "progressives" who are outraged at the contests of certain hacked e-mails, will we call the disinformation campaign for what it is.

If we repeatedly ignore lawlessness, then it becomes the norm. We past the point of no return when Republicans can subvert the democratic process with impunity. If we can't stand up for our Democracy now, how can we hope to win in November 2020?

[Fiendish Thingy]

16. Sanders was just on Colbert and said he supports impeachment nt

[JI7]

17. he opposed impeachment against Bush also. so many of his supporters were so hateful towards

Pelosi but said nothing about his lack of support for impeachment then and now.

[betsuni]

18. +1