Business Insider: Joe Biden suggested Bill Clinton's impeachment was a 'partisan lynching' in 1998

[JoeOtterbein]

Video at link:

[link:https://www.businessinsider.com/video-biden-suggested-bill-clinton-impeachment-was-partisan-lynching-2019-10|

Eliza Relman

Former Vice President Joe Biden condemned President Donald Trump's use of the term "lynching" to describe the House's impeachment inquiry on Tuesday. However, Biden used the same term back in 1998 to describe former President Bill Clinton's impeachment, newly-released video from CNN's Andrew Kaczynski and a transcript seen by Insider.

snip

In 1998, Biden suggested that Clinton's impeachment was a "partisan lynching" in an interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer.

snip

more at link

[Cha]

1. Oh.. you think you have a "Gotcha" on

Joe Biden?

It's a little different than Fucking trump saying it.

[melman]

16. Explain how it's different

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

178. It's not... and even Joe knows it!! LOL, obviously why Joe felt

it was necessary to apologize... for the tenth time, for various infractions!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[SMC22307]

60. LOL, explain how it's different.

Seriously.

[TwilightZone]

65. Context, for one.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=321208

I find it interesting that some are insisting that they're exactly the same. Curious, that.

[SMC22307]

70. C'mon, stop making excuses. Just admit it was a poor word choice on Biden's part.

Be adult about it, and move on.

[TwilightZone]

72. Nah, I prefer to deal in the real world.

Where context is a thing and making false equivalences is misguided, at best. The assertion that they're exactly the same thing is hilariously laughable.

[SMC22307]

76. The defense of it, Biden fans twisting themselves into pretzels...

is what's "hilariously laughable."

[Baclava]

125. And people still tell me there is no such thing as Biden Apologists, lol

Pretzel twisting indeed

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

210. It sure is!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[AncientGeezer]

221. And....

As did others......Reps. Meeks, Davis, McDermott, Rangel

[AncientGeezer]

226. Nadler said it...Meeks said it, Rangel said it, Davis said it...this is the flag you want to fly?

[at140]

105. ////////////////////THIS////////////////////////////

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

179. It was poor word choice on Biden's part... that was easy!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[SMC22307]

202. Told ya so!

You adult, you.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

209. Hahaha!!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[lapucelle]

64. Joe Biden "suggested"

Why the weasel word? Oh, here's why...

"[H]istory is going to question whether or not this was just a partisan lynching or whether or not it was something that in fact met ... the very high bar that was set by the founders as to what constituted an impeachable offense.".

Meanwhile, Donald Trump said

So some day, if a Democrat becomes President and the Republicans win the House, even by a tiny margin, they can impeach the President, without due process or fairness or any legal rights. All Republicans must remember what they are witnessing here - a lynching.

[Cha]

73. Mahalo, lapucelle.. trump's "lynching" was a "dog whistle"

Biden was describing a real partisan witch hunt against president Clinton.. which any Democrat who was paying attention back then.. knows is true.

Unbelievable that anyone would try to give trump cover on this by trying to compare the two..

[lapucelle]

83. False equivalence helped to put Trump in the White House.

Jeffrey Toobin actually apologized for engaging in false equivalence in his commentary during the 2016 GE.

CNN’s Jeffrey Toobin: ‘I regret my role’ in Hillary Clinton false equivalence

“When journalists can’t, or won’t, distinguish between allegations directed at the Trump Foundation and those directed at the Clinton Foundation, there’s something seriously amiss. And false equivalencies are developing on a grand scale as a result of relentlessly negative news.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2018/01/29/cnns-jeffrey-toobin-i-regret-my-role-in-hillary-clinton-false-equivalence/

[Cha]

89. Oh Gawd Yes.. "False Equivalency". Perfect description

of what's going on here.

Thank you for Jeffrey Toobin's confession!

[SMC22307]

87. No one is trying to give Fat Nixon cover. But if one old white guy...

can't use "lynching," then another old-ish white guy shouldn't have been able to use it either.

You cannot have it both ways.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

227. Apparently you can!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Hoyt]

112. Exactly. There's a big difference the way Biden used the term vs. the Racist-in-Chief.

[Miguelito Loveless]

111. Not seeing a difference

For a white person to claim another white person was lynched when they were never in any danger of physical harm is pretty unacceptable. Inserting an adjective like “political” or “high-tech” not withstanding.

[Cha]

116. Look again.. it's a "False Equivalency" and if

you can't see the difference I can't help you.

[Miguelito Loveless]

124. Both are white men using "lynching" in a context where no one is any danger of

getting lynched.

If Biden had said “The Clinton impeachment is a political gassing in the showers” would that be okay in any context other than the illustrative one I just used?

I think not.

If Biden had said Hilary Clinton was “politically raped”, would that be okay?

[Cha]

129. trump uses it as a "dog whistle".. Biden

was describing a real partisan witch hunt against president Clinton for his "blow job".. which any Democrat who was paying attention back then.. knows is true.

Unbelievable that anyone would try to give trump cover on this by trying to compare the two with "False Equivalencies".

[Miguelito Loveless]

130. Clinton wasn't lynched, politically, metaphorically, or otherwise

He politically survived the impeachment, with even higher poll numbers than when he started.

That’s the signature thing about lynching, you don’t survive it, thus the analogy was inappropriate.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

213. Very inappropriate of Joe... how's that not obvious?!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[lapucelle]

143. Biden never said that the Clinton impeachment was a lynching,,

Hypothetical speculation about what historians might conclude in the future is not the same thing as reaching or advancing that conclusion. Wondering whether or not someone might say something is not the same thing as saying it.

[Cha]

145. Wait.. what? Biden

didn't say the quote they're attributing to him?

Good morning, lapucelle

[totodeinhere]

236. It's a poor choice of words no matter who says it. Why can't we just agree that

Joe shouldn't have said it? And after all, he has apologized for saying it.

[Cha]

138. 3 Black Congressmen said it, too.. how's your "false equivalency" on that?

The Democrats who compared the Republicans impeaching Clinton to a lynching included three black Congressmen, Gregory Meeks and Danny Davis and Charlie Rangel.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=321230

[Miguelito Loveless]

177. Let's see, do people who have been victims of lynch mobs

have the right to use the term in characterizing others? As I a white person, that is not my call.

[AncientGeezer]

174. Rep. Nadler called the actions against Pres. Clinton a lynch mob in '98

At least 3 times...and sits as Chair of Judiciary.....
If you are going to demand mea culpa from VP Biden I'd think Rep Nadler owes 1 also...no?

[Miguelito Loveless]

176. If he said it, then yes.

Again, wrong is wrong. Why is this a difficult concept?

[AncientGeezer]

189. He did..as did several others.....that isn't a difficult concept.

Single out VP Biden....that seems like a hit.

[Miguelito Loveless]

198. Really? I have singled out Biden?

I believe in this thread I have condemned the use by all parties in all circumstances.

[Miguelito Loveless]

229. Whose post are you quoting?

I am not JoeOtterbein.

[AncientGeezer]

234. Replied to the wrong post...my bad.

[Miguelito Loveless]

235. Understood

These things happen.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

185. Excellent points... case closed!! Why Joe needed to apologize.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[AncientGeezer]

187. How about Reps, Meeks, Davis, Rangel...also Nadler and McDermott?

[treestar]

162. "lynching" is a metaphor here

and the word has not been changed to be less general.


lynch
/lin(t)SH/
Learn to pronounce
verb
gerund or present participle: lynching; noun: lynching
(of a mob) kill (someone), especially by hanging, for an alleged offense with or without a legal trial.
"her father had been lynched for a crime he didn't commit"
Similar:
hang
hang by the neck
execute
put to death
kill
murder
string up
do in
bump off
knock off
slay
gibbet
Origin

mid 19th century: from Lynch's law, named after Capt. William Lynch, head of a self-constituted judicial tribunal in Virginia c. 1780.
Translate lynching to
Use over time for: lynching

Donnie's whine is absurd; he is only being investigated; if he gets impeached, he gets a hearing in the Senate.

The circumstances are very different; a blow job versus taking foreign help for his own interests.

[Miguelito Loveless]

180. We are not discussing a comparison of the crimes

we are discussing the inappropriate use of an inflammatory term.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

188. Thought that was pretty clear... apparently not.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[treestar]

193. It's not "inappropriate"

like the word "attack" we do not mean a literal attack.

I do not think Biden or Trump used it correctly since there was always going to be a hearing. Clarence Thomas used it incorrectly also since he was going to have a hearing and it was not even for a criminal matter. It is not racial - you are limiting the word in ways it is not limited to attempt to smear Biden again on racial grounds.

[Miguelito Loveless]

197. I am not trying to "smear" anyone

And I resent the accusation.

It is my view that the use of the word was WRONG in both instances. Your mileage may vary.

[treestar]

207. It was wrong, because there is a hearing, due process

Lynching is killing someone without any hearing, trial, due process. But referring to them being white men as being the reason it's wrong is what I don't agree with.

[Miguelito Loveless]

230. Seems to me just as inappropriate

As men claiming “metaphorical” rape. The use of the word by men in a manner in which they claim victimization when the “harm” suffered in no way resembles rape. It is wrong.

[AncientGeezer]

222. Nadler said re Pres. Clinton it was a lynch mob...severeal times...

[George II]

2. What's your point - to bash Biden or justify trump's comment this morning?

[JoeOtterbein]

5. I'm certain you feel the same way if Bernie or Tulsi said it.

Correct?

[EveHammond13]

10. they have made their own beds

[SMC22307]

101. Did that bed-making involve the use of the term "lynching"? (n/t)

[EveHammond13]

123. just as long as no one praised Assad.

[George II]

11. We'll never know - neither did say it.

[JoeOtterbein]

17. Thanks for backing me on this!

Exactly! Neither Bernie or Tulsi said it. Joe did.

[George II]

21. So in answer to my earlier question, I guess....

...you ARE bashing Biden and perhaps doing it to justify the fact that trump said it. Otherwise, why go looking up what Biden said more than 20 years ago?

[JoeOtterbein]

27. I don't follow orders or answer questions, I care not to follow. Sorry!

[George II]

40. You seem to forget that I answered your questions TWICE in this thread earlier tonight:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=321009

And also once in post #5 in this very thread. I suppose you're superior to me - I can answer your questions but you simply declare "I don't answer questions."

[JoeOtterbein]

42. Ok then. First answer my question:

You would feel ok with Bernie or Tulsi, saying the same thing Joe said?

[George II]

47. I already did answer that one.

[JoeOtterbein]

49. Missed it. So, you are saying you would feel the same if Bernie or Tulsi said it.

Good. Because I knew you would be consistent.

[George II]

52. So where can I find your answers, even in that earlier thread?

[George II]

79. Still waiting.

[JoeOtterbein]

82. Sorry. What was your question again?

[George II]

88. As we used to say on newsnet, "RTFF" - but I'll help you out - see posts #40 and #2 in this thread.

[JoeOtterbein]

94. Are you saying you don't have a simple question?

Again, I don't follow directions from others very well. Best just to be straight up with me. And you can say I'm a bit dense. I'm ok with it.

[George II]

98. Let's try again, the questions that you didn't answer (for some reason or another) are in:

Posts #40 and #2.

[George II]

113. Still waiting.

[LanternWaste]

157. That's a creative way to rationalize holding others to a higher standard than yourself.

Uncomfortable questions are best dealt with by stamping one's foot in a huff as a reponse... as you so accurately illustrate.

[Bradshaw3]

30. A bunch of deflecting BS

He never said or did either one of those things but you seem to be trying to deflect from the fact that Biden did say it. So was it wrong for trump but ok, or no big deal for Joe? Is that what you are saying?

Also how is pointing out something that is factual bashing? Because you don't like to hear it? Well get ready because Joe has a long history of things like this and that is one problem with his candidacy.

[JoeOtterbein]

43. +1000!

[highplainsdem]

81. See. reply 29. 1998 was a very different time, the comparison was made more casually,

and in 1998 it was also made by three black members of Congress. Two of whom are still in the House.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

194. Seriously?

Was blackface wrong in 1998? White people should know, even in 1998, that lynching is not a term to use metaphorically about a white person that gets to live through the event being described.

[Bradshaw3]

217. Yeah I'm sure voters will know the supposed difference

After all the nuance and context and rationalizations have been explained in a one-minute ad. This is just another example of the problem with Biden as a candidate. He obviates many of the arguments against rump, even if there are differences here or that his son did nothing wrong in Ukraine. Those and many other examples give the repubs opportunities to claim the "everybody-does-it defense" and there are enough low information voters (as in 2016) who could buy into it that it could make a difference in 2020.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

181. One of many!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[melman]

39. This is such bullshit

Twice you've accused this poster of trying to defend Trump which they have in no way done.

How about you make your points without taking cheap shots.

[George II]

54. Cheap shots?

[melman]

58. Yeah

Cheap shots. And dumb gifs.

[George II]

59. "Dumb" refers to an inability to speak.

[melman]

62. I don't know if you've heard

but some words have multiple meanings.

[SMC22307]

66. "Dumb" also refers to stupid and showing a lack of intelligence.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dumb

The .gif was dumb. Truly.

[George II]

68. So I guess melman is taking a "cheap shot" at me....

...by implying I have a lack of intelligence and am stupid. If only he knew!

[SMC22307]

74. Just admit you are wrong.

Just like Biden was wrong to use the term "lynching."

[George II]

78. I will when I am. BTW, read the OP again, Biden "suggested". That's like "it has been reported...."

[SMC22307]

97. Read the exact quote from Biden's mouth...

per the link in the OP:

"[H]istory is going to question whether or not this was just a partisan lynching or whether or not it was something that in fact met ... the very high bar that was set by the founders as to what constituted an impeachable offense," Biden said in 1998.

Oh, great, there's more!

Biden wasn't the only high-profile Democrat to describe Clinton's impeachment in these terms. Rep. Jerry Nadler called the potential releasing of a videotape during the impeachment proceedings a "lynch mob" in 1998 Reuters article.

The term "lynching" is associated with the mob murders of black Americans by white people. There were 4,743 lynchings in the US between 1882 and 1968. The vast majority of the victims were black.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

104. I knew that outrage was going to backfire.

I distinctly remember the Clinton impeachment being referenced, by many, as a “coup” or “lynching”

[SMC22307]

110. But hey, it was 1998... it's all good!

The twisting on this astonishing. Biden should just admit he was wrong to use the word and move on. Just like Bill Clinton should have admitted that he was wrong to be ah, um, "serviced" by young Monica.

Sincere apology and move on! Why is that so difficult for some? It's smacking of Donald Trump and his pathological inability to ever admit he was wrong...

[AncientGeezer]

173. Like Nadler, Meeks, Davis, Rangel, McDermott....

3 on the House floor....in '98.
Why is Biden made an example of?

[Bradshaw3]

220. He said the gif was dumb

Which it is and just another deflection on your part. If you don't want people implying you are dumb, don't give them a reason to do so.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

192. How is it hard for you to understand?

If we are going to say it was inappropriate for Trump to say it, then it is inappropriate for Biden to say it. And any other white person/politician. One can be saying that it's just generally not right for whites to use that term like that and not be trying to prop up Trump or single out Biden. ALL WHITES need to stop it.

[George II]

196. Did I EVER say it was inappropriate for Biden to say it?

The only thing that is hard for me to understand is how gleefully some equate Biden to trump, even when discussing what Biden said and throwing trump into it twice.

And your final statement is incorrect, all PEOPLE need to stop it. It appears Biden stopped saying that 21 years ago.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

203. So you don't think it was inappropriate? That's a whole new problem, then.

Yeah, he said it the last time there was an impeachment.

And, you know what, sometimes both Trump and Biden can do the same thing wrong. That doesn't mean that Biden is equally as bad as Trump as a person. It just means they did the same thing they shouldn't.

I would never say that blacks cannot use that word. Ever. YMMV.

[George II]

204. Why all the questions that you essentially answer in posing the question. So tell me...

..."when did you stop beating your wife?" Got it?

And yet another post of yours invoking "trump and Biden", as though they're equivalent.

Buh bye.......

[Cuthbert Allgood]

214. "So you don't think it's inappropriate?" is NOWHERE near "Did you stop beating your wife?"

And you overestimate how much I care about whether you interact with me or not.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

211. Pretty simple!! Joe has no excuse... which, presumably, is why he felt he had to apologize.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Cuthbert Allgood]

215. Right?

I don't think it's that hard. Why are so many doing contortions to exempt Biden from any blame in this? He knows he was wrong.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

223. Gotta give Joe credit for admitting he was wrong.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

212. Pretty simple!! Joe has no excuse... which, presumably, is why he felt he had to apologize.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[lapucelle]

75. Actually, Business Insider said that Joe Biden suggested something

concerning how history will view the Clinton impeachment.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

183. Yeah, Joe showed once again why he's not the best candidate to take on tRump.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Skya Rhen]

195. Really? And your candidate is the best one to take on Trump? Don't forget the N word that he used.

[Cha]

12. You didn't answer his question.

[JoeOtterbein]

18. Sorry, but I grew up in a family of Nine children.

So, I don't follow orders very well! Not even Mom and Dad's!

Hahahahahahhhhaaaaa!

Thanks for the hearty laugh!

[Cha]

19. Geoge asked you questions.. he didn't "order" you.

[JoeOtterbein]

22. George did not order me. And I still refuse...

...to follow yours!

[Cha]

31. lol.. your Big "Gotcha" Fizzled Poorly..

[JoeOtterbein]

41. What "gotcha"? I'm just posting the truth of what Joe said.

[redstateblues]

51. Hey Cha- he's used to his attacks fizzling. Happens a lot.

It must be hard to see your candidate's numbers sinking like his are.

[Cha]

55. Hey Aloha, redstateblues!

Seems like this wasn't thought through.

[treestar]

165. Silly. You asked George a question.

No complaints if he doesn't answer it then.

I can answer it- Tulsi and Bernie can probably distinguish between the two cases.

[George II]

50. I grew up in a family of six. I always obeyed my mother and father and respected them.

[TwilightZone]

23. I wouldn't.

Context is important, which you seem to be ignoring. Biden or Tulsi or Bernie saying "partisan lynching" in 1998 is not equivalent to Trump saying "lynching" in 2019.

Equating the two is misguided, at best. It's also rather transparent.

You should probably answer the same question for yourself. Would you be equating them if Tulsi or Bernie had said it?

[Skya Rhen]

44. Please...Bernie actually said the "N" word - or have you conveniently forgotten?

https://www.mediaite.com/news/bernie-sanders-campaign-defends-use-of-uncensored-n-word-in-1997-book-critiquing-racism-is-not-racism/

[melman]

48. Daily Caller?

WTF

[TwilightZone]

61. Mediaite isn't the Daily Caller.

For one, Mediaite leans pretty solidly left.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/mediaite/

Tucker Carlson it ain't.

[melman]

63. Who said it was?

The original post had a Daily Caller link as anyone can see by the edit.


Also, Mediaite is not solidly left.

[TwilightZone]

67. I'm not seeing an edit.

Perhaps you replied to the wrong person.

[melman]

77. I didn't

[George II]

95. Really?

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/mediaite/

?w=700&ssl=1

[melman]

147. Yes

Really. Try reading it instead searching for 'funny' gifs.

[betsuni]

142. Oh, melman.

Bernie's book is real and I'm sure he wouldn't appreciate any suggestion that it isn't, that the quotes from the book are fake because this or that news source quoted them. I'm sure he's proud of his book. Give him respect for his work.

[melman]

148. You know what I like about you bestuni?

Your zingers absolutely never land but you still keep trying.

[betsuni]

149. Authentic opinions are not "zingers."

As AOC and Bernie know.

[melman]

151. Oh

You forgot to post the opera clip with a "cleverly hidden" insult.


I'm afraid the judges are going to dock points for that one.

[betsuni]

152. No no no. I don't post opera. Ballet or classical music.

It's World Ballet Day today. Authentic. Art.

[betsuni]

159. Oh wait, I am wrong. I have posted opera!

This is my favorite:

[George II]

92. Skya, be prepared for "the Circle Game".

[Cha]

132. lol

[SMC22307]

107. Fail. Writers often use quotes around words they want to distance themselves from.

He used the word in quotes because he didn't approve of it.

And way to miss the point he was making -- that racism was used to pit poor white people against poor black people. He isn't wrong on that and you know it.

[treestar]

166. Being able to see that difference

Last edited Wed Oct 23, 2019, 04:47 PM - Edit history (1)

you are able to get what Biden was talking about when he mentioned working in a Senate with segregationists, that even they could be worked with as opposed to today's Republicans; and did not take it to mean he agreed with them or other such BS.

[SMC22307]

200. That I actually agree with. I still think "lynching" was a poor word choice on his part...

no matter the decade.

[treestar]

205. I agree. The essence of the definition of "lynching" is

the failure of any due process. Impeached Presidents get due process: a hearing in the Senate. So the metaphor is off.

[SMC22307]

206. Excellent point. (n/t)

[Cha]

131. Is the OP going to ask Sanders to Apologize for THIS?!!

Should Bernie Sanders Have Used the N-Word to 'Critique Racism' in His Book?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=271603

Thank you, Skya

[LanternWaste]

156. I'd respond to rather than answer the question also.

As the accurate and honest answer would reveal a petulance not many are ready to admit possessing... regardless of what we may pretend to be certain of.

[treestar]

164. They didn't

We'll never have the chance to compare.

[Cha]

7. Good questions, George. Seems to think

he has Big Ol Gotcha on Joe Biden which couldn't be further from the truth.

Geeze.. the depths.

[JoeOtterbein]

20. Don't forget we are in a primary. You can't expect everyone else, to go in the same direction.

[George II]

28. Wrong, we should ALL go in the same direction, but just use different roads to get there.

[SterlingPound]

35. I like that way of putting it

[still_one]

186. Well said George!!!

[Miguelito Loveless]

126. I think his point is that both are wrong

If Trump’s comment is unacceptable (and it is) then so is Biden’s. We cannot make excuses for people doing things that are wrong just because they are “on our side”.

[tirebiter]

140. Morals and ethics are more complicated than that

But you knew that, didn’t you.

[Miguelito Loveless]

182. I know that people only seem to be forgiving of that which they would not forgive

their enemies when it is their ox getting gored.

Yes, morality and ethics are complicated, and a major reason is people's refusal to apply them uniformly when its inconvenient to their argument.

[Rollo]

3. That's always been my impression as well.

[Rollo]

6. I think Bill probably counted on Congress acting as gentlemen...

But he miscalculated on that... the Senate tries to function as a gentleman's club. The House, nope.

At least back then.

And lying about an extramarital affair, even under oath, was probably OK in a gentleman's club at the time.

[apcalc]

4. A partisan lynching is different than a lynching.

Besides.... Trump has to go for so kuch else. Don’t get distracted.

[EveHammond13]

8. I refuse to punish our candidates for trump's wrongdoing

[redstateblues]

9. dupe

[ecstatic]

13. oh, ffs! Anyway, another democratic congressman who allegedly used the same term

said that trump doesn't get to say it because he's a neo nazi enabling racist (paraphrasing). I'm satisfied with that explanation. Time to move on.

[TwilightZone]

14. Context is important.

"Partisan lynching" isn't quite the same thing as lynching without the qualifier, though I'm sure plenty will disagree.

Trump's use of it in the context of his racist history is also a bit different than Biden using it in 1998. Biden clearly doesn't have the racial baggage that Trump does. The intent is also quite different. Biden's usage was meant to mock the partisan nature of Clinton's impeachment. Trump's use of it is a dog-whistle.

[Cha]

25. Of course it's different and anyone can see that

who isn't after a big Gotcha on Biden.. Which Fizzled poorly.

[highplainsdem]

37. See reply 29. Very different time in 1998, with that word used even by black Congressmen to describe

Republicans impeaching Bill Clinton. The word was simply used more carelessly then, including by black Democratic lawmakers as well as white lawmakers.

[redstateblues]

15. Your Biden bashing on this site only makes Biden supporters dig in. It doesn't help Bernie

And Bernie needs help as his numbers continue to sink

[Green Line]

24. Yup

Now I need to go give Joe more money

[left-of-center2012]

26. More than 20 years ago, Biden said ...

So you approve Trump saying it, because Biden said it.

[highplainsdem]

29. Very selective editing, Joe. That article also refers to Jerry Nadler using that word at the time,

but you left that out.

And unless you've been ignoring the news you should know other Democrats also made that comparison in 1998.

A different time, when the country was much less sensitive to the use of the word.

The Democrats who compared the Republicans impeaching Clinton to a lynching included three black Congressmen, Gregory Meeks and Danny Davis and Charlie Rangel.

But you want to make it seem as if Joe Biden was the only Democrat who used the word then.

Again, that was a different time.

[George II]

33. Joe Biden isn't a white supremacist or supported by such, trump is both. The OP is a vague...

and subtle attempt to absolve trump of his racist comment this morning.

[JoeOtterbein]

38. Sorry I did not edit to your satisfaction.

Also, as the old saying goes; "what was old, is now new."

Joe need to apologize or what he said about Trump's quote, is meaningless.

[highplainsdem]

45. Are you going to demand that the black Congressmen who made the same comparison in 1998

also apologize?

If not, your outrage over Biden is meaningless.

Oh, and don't forget Jerry Nadler while you're demanding apologies.

[George II]

117. I see you didn't get an answer. But then again, some refuse to answer questions:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=321227

"I don't follow orders or answer questions"

[TwilightZone]

46. Intentionally ignoring context and making false equivalences...

pretty much invalidated any assertion you thought you were making.

They're not even remotely the same thing. I'm rather surprised that you continue to assert otherwise.

[Cha]

134. Are you going to ask the 3 Black Congressman who said it to apologize,too?

The Democrats who compared the Republicans impeaching Clinton to a lynching included three black Congressmen, Gregory Meeks and Danny Davis and Charlie Rangel.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=321230

[SMC22307]

114. 1998 was a different time?

Three black men using "lynching" is different than a white man using it to describe another white man trying to be brought down by his political opponents. And when did it become "not" a different time? 2003? 2010? 2019?

Clarence Thomas used the word in 1991 and there was much sensitivity in its use then:

This is not an opportunity to talk about difficult matters privately or in a closed environment. This is a circus. It's a national disgrace. And from my standpoint, as a black American, it is a high-tech lynching for uppity blacks who in any way deign to think for themselves, to do for themselves, to have different ideas, and it is a message that unless you kowtow to an old order, this is what will happen to you. You will be lynched, destroyed, caricatured by a committee of the U.S. Senate rather than hung from a tree.

Hearing of the Senate Judiciary Committee on the Nomination of Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court, Electronic Text Center, University of Virginia Library (October 11, 1991).

That quote caused quite a stir. Seven years later, Biden should have known better.

[Thekaspervote]

32. Spin spin spin.... got anything else??

[TexasTowelie]

102. This seems fitting...

[LakeArenal]

34. A partisan lynching for the cover up of a blow job

Isn’t quite analogous to a traitor trying to invoke sympathy for treason.

[Cha]

57. Precisely! Mahalo, LakeArenal!

[LakeArenal]

172. Well your opinion of me is worth more than the whole topic!!

Some don’t answer questions or orders.
Just throw bombs.

[Cha]

224. Mahalo, LA.. and you're absolutely right about what's going

on here.

[TwilightZone]

71. According to some in this thread, they're exactly the same thing.

This place makes me laugh sometimes.

[SMC22307]

118. That makes it worse. Diminishing the word to describe...

Bill Clinton's political opponents going after him over lying about a sloppy blow job.

[LakeArenal]

171. Once again. They were after Bill for covering up the bj

Not the conduct of two consenting adults.

[SMC22307]

201. Nothing in my post suggests otherwise.

They went after him for lying about a blow job. Geez, seems to "innocent" compared to the crimes of Trump, Inc.

[Eko]

36. For some people the world is black and white and they refuse to see the gray.

Especially when it is against their political opponent. Might as well post about what NWA stands for, your point would be just as valid. Not.

[zaj]

53. It was a mistake that...

... reflects a lot of growth in society over 20 years.

That no one noticed or worried 20 years ago is the problem. And everyone should recognize how problematic the misuse of the language is.

Biden should own the mistake and challenge everyone, Trump, Graham, and the entire GOP to apologize as well.

If he doesn't, it's mistake.

It's moments like this, mistakes he might have made along the way, that showed how powerful a leader Obama was. He would own the mistake and speak powerfully about the need to confront the underlying problem.

Biden should take a lesson.

[JoeOtterbein]

56. +1000!

It's easy! Get it over with now!

[highplainsdem]

80. See reply 29. The lynching comparison was made by black Democratic congressmen in 1998, too,

as well as by other white lawmakers besides Biden.

It was simply a different time.

I don't have a database (like the one I'm sure the Trump campaign has on Biden) to search through everything said on the record by every politician a couple of decades ago, but I'm sure that if I did I could find countless examples of that comparison being made in ways it would NOT be made now. By both Republicans and Democrats.

Is Biden supposed to apologize for everyone's casual use of that comparison in 1998? Including those black congressmen?

Republicans would love that.

We can't change how casually the word was used in 1998.

But we can point out when a racist president misuses it in 2019, when it is NOT used casually.

[betsuni]

85. Clarence Thomas called his hearing a high-tech lynching.

In response to Joe Biden's question if he had anything to say. I'd forgotten it was in response to Joe.

[highplainsdem]

100. Great point!

[Cha]

135. Well said, highplainsdem! It's a false

equivalency that isn't working no mater who wants to drag on Joe Biden. Are they going to ask for the "3 Black Democratic Congressmen" to apologize, too.

Thank you for the information!

The Democrats who compared the Republicans impeaching Clinton to a lynching included three black Congressmen, Gregory Meeks and Danny Davis and Charlie Rangel.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=321230

[Cha]

136. Are you asking the 3 Black Dem Congressmen to "Apologize", too, zaj?

The Democrats who compared the Republicans impeaching Clinton to a lynching included three black Congressmen, Gregory Meeks and Danny Davis and Charlie Rangel.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=321230

[zaj]

169. I'm saying that great leadership...

... takes mistakes, even ones that at a different time might not have seemed like a mistake, and turns then into healing, teachable moments.

And it is only possible to see the leadership opportunity if you can see the forest through the trees

The entire conversation is wrong. Flip it upside down. This isn't about whether black Democrats or black Supreme Court nominees week were saying similar things at the time. That's a weak and defensive response.

Flip everything and recognize your own growth along with the growth of a new generation. And praise the increased empathy we have for disempowered people of all kinds. Recognize how natural it is for every generation to struggle with losing control over the culture as the newer generation begins to define it

How people tolerated this sort of language back then, and it took a new and more inclusive mindet to help everyone grow, become more understanding, demonstrate more empathy.

And finally, how Democracy requires that we citizens value exactly this sort of growth. And for America to succeed in a diverse world our leaders must recognize this cultural growth.

And weak men like Donald Trump can only damage our nation. Strong leaders embrace this growth.

We need strong leadership. Elect Biden 2020.

[loyalsister]

146. Well said!

We weren't talking about white privilege in 1998. I know that greater awareness has led me to rethink a lot of things I have said and done.
That the unfair persecution of a white man leads to grappling and straining for an analogy (witch hunt, lynching) is an indication that it's not really a thing.

[pnwpolicy]

69. this was 21 years ago

If Biden said it today, it would be relevant to the election next year.

What's more relevant is that Biden used to be able to string a coherent statement together for 30+ seconds and can't anymore. That's the red flag here!

[emmaverybo]

86. You do not have to use desperate, inaccurate attacks on Biden to support your preferred candidate.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

184. Maybe that's part of the reason why Joe has lost his mo'... but, there's more to it than that.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[tulipsandroses]

84. I'm sick of the bothsiderism. Biden was wrong then too. However we don't need to spend time

twisting in the wind about what Biden said then to deflect attention from a race baiting president and Lindsey Graham's disgusting defense. I actually find Lindsey's defense more disgusting than what Trump said.

Trump is the master of misdirection. I can see right through what he is doing. He knows race baiting works with his base. He has nothing but racism and outrage to run on. He has no wall, has not delivered for the working class, has not given them a better health care plan than Obamacare. Moderate republicans and Independents are getting turned off by his increasing instability and debacles. This is another rendition of throwing red meat to his hard core base. Blacks, minorities and dems get outraged and are offended. All the more reason for his racist following to support him. Supporting Trump is sticking it to the Libs. Trump knows this. After a very bad week, Syria, more coming out about the Ukraine scandal, he does what he always does, falls back to race baiting to feed to his rabid racist base to shore up his dwindling support.

Wrong as it was for Biden to say it. I hope the media does not spend anytime talking about what Biden said. Not unless they are doing it in a meaningful way - that MANY white folks are absolutely clueless about race, race relations/ knowing how to talk to other races and about other races.
But the media constantly plays follow the bouncing ball with Trump. Here they go, chasing another bouncing ball and doing the bothsiderism, false equivalence thing again. Seems we have not learned the lesson of the past. Clarence Thomas also said he was being lynched during the Anita Hill hearings. It was wrong of him or anyone else that misappropriates the term to make themselves out to be the victim. As Mark Thompson, just aptly said on Lawrence O'd Donnel, there were no hearings, trials in lynchings. People were executed. Similarly, people get outraged when you misappropriate what happened with the Jews to frivolous or less serious plights. No difference to me as a black woman. People should refrain from using the term lynching for their defense. But lets be clear, there is a sinister motive here by Trump and Graham.

As I said, I am most disgusted by Lindsey Graham's statements. Trump is who is . Biden is not my preferred candidate so this is not about defending Biden. The media needs to do a better job. Here we are 3 yrs later after HER EMAILS that they incessantly covered. Donald Trump is turning the world on top of its head, making it OK for bigots to be openly racist, breaking laws, violating the constitution and making us less safe in the process. I am a black woman, an immigrant in America that does not feel safe in my own country due to the actions of Donald Trump. So no, I don't care to discuss bothsiderism relating to Biden. The media chasing this is a repeat of 2016 investigating Clinton corruption and emails. And yet here we are 3 years later, without fanfare, Hillary Clinton is exonerated and there is nowhere near the same coverage to let the public know. Here they go again doing it with Biden.

[JoeOtterbein]

90. Thanks for your many good, and very well and completely expressed, points.

We need to get ready to support our nominee. No use hiding the facts from ourselves.

[TheRealNorth]

99. Agreed

I prefer that we focus on the crimes being committed by Don the Con and the Republicans rather than the racially-charged language they use. Focusing on the racially-charged figurative use of terms like "lynching" didn't work in 2016, and isn't going to win us any votes in 2020.

[SMC22307]

120. "Twisting in the wind," eh?

Subtle.

[democratisphere]

91. I am really gettig sick of THIS sh't being posted by so-called Democrats!

Damn!

[JoeOtterbein]

109. I'm a Dem since voting for Mondale. I'm sure you are too!

[SMC22307]

121. Why? People need to be keep informed on legit news, mud-slinging,

what social media is blowing up over, all of it. What's the benefit of keeping in the dark on these sorts of stories? Right-wing media will be all over it. What good does burying one's head do?

[democratisphere]

137. Yeah. It's kinda like promoting Medicare for all with no way to pay for it

under the current American healthcare structure.

[SMC22307]

199. It's not like that at all, except in your head. (n/t)

[democratisphere]

231. Oh. I forgot that money grows on trees and when you are running

a little short, all they have to do is print more, making it worth even less. Livin' in the land of healthcare make believe!

[Cha]

133. EXACTLY!!

[Freethinker65]

93. Squirrel!!!!

[JoeOtterbein]

96. Uh?

[essme]

103. It is a Bush reference. Like easily distracted by shit. nt.

[JoeOtterbein]

106. Must have missed that one.

[BootinUp]

115. White rabbit!

Just sorta random small creature.

[IcyPeas]

108. distract and divide..... yup, it's working

Don’t take your eye off the ball family. A major witness is testifying today and he’s using a predictable play to try to distract & divide. We see right through him.

Link to tweet

[pnwmom]

119. The echoes of Clarence Thomas's claims of a "high tech lynching" because he had to go through

a confirmation process, instead of a coronation, were probably still ringing in Biden's ears.

[tirebiter]

122. Makes sense

considering bill clinton was the first black president

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

191. That's something I hadn't considered!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[VarryOn]

127. Personally, I wont use the word. Actually, you never know who it may offend...

And while I dont like being self-cesnored on words like these, I know no one in my family that ever had to see it happen to them, so it's something that wouldnt affect me like fellow citizens who are AA.. Truth be known, it wouldnt surprise me to learn some in my past family may have particpated in lynchig someone. If they didnt, the likely would have approved.

"Lynching" should be avoided in public discourse unless in specific situations whereliteral lynchsare discussed.

[calguy]

128. Talk about posting some stupid irrelevant shit to argue about

I could state my own response but I really don't want to fight with fellow Democrats over stupid shit like this.

[BannonsLiver]

139. And?

[betsuni]

141. That is disqualifying.

Republicans are the enemy. Republicans hate America. Republicans are the racists. As everybody except Republicans and those who know nothing about American politics knows.

[OKNancy]

144. 1. Biden apologized

2. partisan lynching is a qualifier
3. Biden has never been know as a racist. Trump has
4. years ago people were not as sensitive as now
and again Joe apologized

[peggysue2]

225. Biden apologized

Effectively taking the wind out of another OMG moment, let me count the sins and fault lines of Joe Biden.

Biden apologized. End of a non story.

But still, he persists in beating those drums and poll numbers.

[Joe941]

150. Another day another Biden bashing thread. Got anything else?

Completely different that what tRump said.

[Raven123]

153. Live long enough and you will make mistakes.

The real question is whether we learn and mature. One man has, the other it appears never will.

[Loki Liesmith]

154. I didn't care when Trump said it

Except that he’s bananas.

So I don’t care that Joe did 20 years ago either.

[TidalWave46]

155. Context and actual words used seem to confuse a lot of very foolish people.

Fuck Trump.

[myohmy2]

158. oh dear...

...more baggage?

...

[Kingofalldems]

160. Looks like the OP did not work.

[Peacetrain]

218. +1000

[aikoaiko]

161. Of course he did.

[treestar]

163. Well it was just a blow job

as opposed to seeking help in US election from a foreign power. Kind of like the difference between taking ketchup packets from a restaurant and armed robbery.

[George II]

167. It amazes me that people here are trying to equate Joe Biden to donald trump...

on DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND.

[betsuni]

168. Yes. Why?

Who does that?

[kacekwl]

170. Who cares Who cares Who cares Who cares

Who cares Who cares ? Stop the noise and focus people. Listening to radio this AM and was being "discused" for hours. No mention of trump, Republican crimes.

[Act_of_Reparation]

190. Lots of people care.

Whether they're right or wrong, who can say? But they do.

Now, a candidate can spend their time exhorting the public to be better people than they actually are, or said candidate can try to not make stupid mistakes. Which is easier?

[kacekwl]

216. It was wrong when trump said it

and wrong when Biden or anyone else said it. Let's move on now.

[AncientGeezer]

175. As did others......Reps. Meeks, Davis, McDermott, Rangel......

And?

[NewDayOranges]

208. No one curr... As some young people say.

[stonecutter357]

228. Donald Trump is a racist pig !

[BeyondGeography]

232. He just apologized

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/elections/presidential/caucus/2019/10/23/joe-biden-apologizes-partisan-lynching-bill-clinton-impeachment-iowa-caucuses-2020/4069853002/

Let’s move on.

[JoeOtterbein]

233. Good.