Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumWarren proposes a transition phase before Medicare-for-All
WASHINGTON - After months of criticism from Democratic leaders and voters, Sen. Elizabeth Warren offered a new approach to her Medicare-for-all proposal Friday, adding an intermediate step that would let Americans participate in an optional government-run health plan before she attempted to pass a mandatory program.
Under Warrens new plan, which she calls a Medicare for All option, all Americans would be eligible to participate in Medicare, but no one would have to. She would push for this initiative in her first 100 days in the White House, then make a separate effort to pass Medicare-for-All later in her first term.
Its a clear shift for the senator from Massachusetts as she attempts to ward off criticism that her single-payer health plan is unrealistic substantively and toxic politically. Warren for months had signaled a full-throated embrace of Medicare-for-All, and this new approach significantly tempers that urgency.
That may ultimately better position Warren for a contest with President Donald Trump if she is the Democratic nominee. But on Friday it prompted an immediate backlash from her centrist rivals as well as liberal activists.
Kate Bedingfield, deputy campaign manager for former vice president Joe Biden, called Warrens maneuvering a full program of flips and twists, while Sen. Michael Bennet, D-Colo., said she was backtracking, and Lis Smith, spokeswoman for South Bend, Indiana, Mayor Pete Buttigieg, accused her of trying to paper over a very serious policy problem.
https://www.post-gazette.com/news/politics-nation/2019/11/17/Elizabeth-Warren-Medicare-for-All-plan-health-care-transition/stories/201911170230?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_PittsburghPG
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
elleng
(131,199 posts)glad she's coming around to describing attributes of a 'plan' that may be widely accepted, instead of scaring many away with features many don't want.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)"Health care for all" is likely a winning message in the general, but specific plans for just how we get there would leave too many voters cold. If M4A gets even 3/4 of Democrats on board, that's not enough to get us through the general.
Preaching to the converted doesn't get you more converts.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ritapria
(1,812 posts)I think she has moved much closer to the Buttigieg plan ..Harry Reid predicted this would happen
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
dansolo
(5,376 posts)Her plan hasn't changed. She still intends to force M4A on everyone, seemingly even faster than before. First it was four years, now she intends to implement M4A in three years, because of course everybody will have moved over to her glorious public option immediately that it will be no problem to eliminate private insurance after that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
rampartc
(5,439 posts)first year lower the age to 64 etc.
that assures a smooth transition while insuring the oldest(and most needy) first
that may have been the plan back in the great society days, derailed by the vietnam war and nixpn.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
riversedge
(70,347 posts)is open to critique.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueMTexpat
(15,374 posts)She is NOT a die-hard ideologue in any sense!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,715 posts)'transition' period? M4A is a bad, idea and she should never have run on it...I believe this will potentially cost her the nomination...now I would have voted for her in the general of course. But I see real signs of slippage and if Buttigeig wins Iowa and Anyone but her wins New Hampshire or even if the the top three tie,her campaign is over. She is the one candidate where Iowa and New Hampshire are important.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LAS14
(13,783 posts)... attention to whether or not congress will be with her.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Tarheel_Dem
(31,245 posts)would be disastrous for Congress persons having to defend a program they may or may not believe in. I'm a Biden supporter, but I think this "backtracking" (as characterized by Michael Bennett) shows she actually listens, and is politically astute.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dansolo
(5,376 posts)She still is pushing for M4A as her ultimate plan, with the expectation that the 2022 elections will be a referendum on that. That is the most politically tone deaf thing I have ever heard. If you think 2010 was bad, we will be facing a political bloodbath.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,715 posts)us in the midterms? It won't work. She should never have run on M4A and when she realized it wasn't as popular as she thought, she should have walked it back then not now...too late and too late.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dansolo
(5,376 posts)Medicare has very specific funding mechanism, largely through payroll taxes, which everyone pays. If she is going to open Medicare enrollment to everyone, then those payroll taxes will have to go up. That sure sounds like a winner.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Because now we won't be paying $400/mo for my wife's employer to insure my wife, child, and myself. The taxes would be far far less.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
madville
(7,412 posts)My current employer-provided health plan costs me $100 a month and my employer covers the rest. Raising my Medicare deduction or increasing my taxes will reduce my net income and there are millions of other people in similar situations.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Taxes for the greater good have always been a good thing.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,715 posts)us over $600.00 a month for Medicare coverage...and I fear the coverage will be limited too and will eventually end up with the rich having great (private most likely) insurance and the rest of us basic coverage. I am against M4A with or without a transition period which would be chaotic in my opinion and we lose the midterm either way...of course it is unlikely we win in 20 if Warren is the nominee and this is the plan...we vote for her sure but she loses everyone else.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Everything Ive seen and read points to lower costs.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,715 posts)all which I fear will limit the coverage, raise taxes and still requires deductibles...the current program which only insures those over 65 is running out of money so how will it be cheaper if everyone is on it? And since we pay individual premiums those with kids will go broke...I don't like the plan. I looked at projected costs and there is no way we can do this without raising taxes substantially and having deductibles. Even then, I imagine medical care will be impacted as well.
My employer subsidizes my costs now...I pay $300 a month for a family plan. I promise you, I won't get a raise and if my employer pays more which could happen I will probably get less...not a fan of M4A. And I can only imagine the chaos of any transition and the blood bath for us that the 2022 midterms would be assuming we win in 20 which is questionable if we run on M4A. The numbers do not add up. And then there are the job loses associated with this...millions of jobs. It is a bad idea and I believe Warren made a big mistake in supporting it at all.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,715 posts)I think the number also include overly optimistic growth...so I looked at the numbers. Now I will ask you why would it be a good idea to run on this? I see it having little chance to pass even if we win which is doubtful IMHO. Why not work with the ACA where millions will get coverage right away and will help us in the midterms instead of destrying our chances? I don't like Medicare...not on it but have worked with it with my older sis in law who will likely spend the rest of her life in a nursing home due to restrictions on days in rehab and the limited options available...trying to get her on Medicaid but the rehab isn't great. She is 66 years old. So please, I have looked at the dark side of Medicare for weeks,months now.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)What numbers? First you said you calculated it, now you looked at the numbers. I just want some specifics here.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,715 posts)rather optimistic myself.
"...Her plan is built on transferring to the government 98% of the $8.8 trillion she estimates that employers will spend on private insurance for their employees.
We can generate almost half of what we need to cover Medicare for All just by asking employers to pay slightly less than what they are projected to pay today, and through existing taxes, Warren wrote in a 20-page online post detailing her program.
Companies with fewer than 50 employees would be exempted and in a nod to unions whose support will be key in the Democratic primary Warren said that employers already offering health benefits reached under collective bargaining agreements will be allowed to reduce how much they send to federal coffers provided that they pass those savings on to employees.
If the program fails to raise $8.8 trillion, Warren says shed make up the difference by imposing a supplemental contribution requirement for big companies with extremely high executive compensation and stock buyback rates..." [probably won't pass court muster]
"Warren instead insisted that overall health care costs would increase for big corporations and the wealthy while falling for most everyone else. Fridays proposal attempts to explain why middle class taxes dont have to increase even if the figures involved are staggering.
She says that Medicare for Alls wiping out of private health insurances premiums, deductibles and co-pays will effectively result in an $11 trillion pay raise for Americans, which will generate $1.4 trillion in new taxes..."[fairy tale IMHO].
"...Other estimates have put the decade-long price tag for universal health care at $34 trillion, but Warren promised to slash $13.5 billion from that over 10 years through sweeping cost-saving efforts, including imposing new pricing and payment rules and reducing administrative and prescription drug costs." [Either payroll taxes or benefit cuts would be needed in IMHO]
I looked at her 20 page plan and above are some excerpts in a discussion I have linked.. Warren's cost of MFA assumptions are too low IMHO and other experts agree...google it. I also question some of the means she uses to obtain the money like a savings from those forced to abandon private coverage, increased capital gains taxes and of course the wealth tax which is likely unconstitutional-google it if you missed the multiple discussion. And if all else fails, there will be additional costs for corporations...sure just what we need to burden our companies with additional costs while forcing them to compete globally. Most of these means to pay for MF4 could easily damage our economy...an of course Warren admits what two million job losses in the insurance industry. I think that is a low number and also, there would be other jobs losses that depend on these insurance jobs as we seen in Autos. I suppose next you will ask me to 'prove it' ...I say to you, let Warren 'prove it', only IMHO she can't because the numbers do not add up...her own numbers.
https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2019/11/01/elizabeth-warren-medicare-for-all-plan
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Just because you dont want it doesnt make it a fairytale.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,715 posts)wrote about before. I am for universal coverage for all. I am not for running on MFA and losing the next election and maybe the mid term in 22 also for something I think will never pass Congress. That being said, we can agree to disagree. I have to say, I was disappointed in what I found in Medicare in regards to my sis-in-law and existing coverage and am convinced we can do better with less disruption by building on and improving the ACA. In the end, we can have a 21st century plan that guarantees coverage from conception to death. I would also add that everyone should be covered in the final plan regardless of age...having two plans makes no sense.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,715 posts)all which I fear will limit the coverage, raise taxes and still requires deductibles...the current program which only insures those over 65 is running out of money so how will it be cheaper if everyone is on it? And since we pay individual premiums those with kids will go broke...I don't like the plan. I looked at projected costs and there is no way we can do this without raising taxes substantially and having deductibles. Even then, I imagine medical care will be impacted as well.
My employer subsidizes my costs now...I pay $300 a month for a family plan. I promise you, I won't get a raise and if my employer pays more which could happen I will probably get less...not a fan of M4A. And I can only imagine the chaos of any transition and the blood bath for us that the 2022 midterms would be assuming we win in 20 which is questionable if we run on M4A. The numbers do not add up. And then there are the job loses associated with this...millions of jobs. It is a bad idea and I believe Warren made a big mistake in supporting it at all.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
stopbush
(24,397 posts)And taxes would definitely go up significantly. Current Medicare taxes collected on 100% of workers funds Medicare for 19% of the population. Do the math: those taxes would need to rise FIVE FOLD to cover 100% of Americans under MFA.
Where are the savings?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to stopbush (Reply #28)
Demsrule86 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)Its time for private for profit insurance to die a miserable death.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
stopbush
(24,397 posts)It seems every program Warren proposes is funded by a wealth tax.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)and weve got quite a few of them. theres lots of money to be had.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
stopbush
(24,397 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
stopbush
(24,397 posts)But most people arguing for M4A dont even have a concept of what current Medicare patients pay for the program, or how much of their burden is born by taxpayers not currently on Medicare.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
stopbush
(24,397 posts)As far as taxing them:
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/01/elizabeth-warren-would-double-billionaire-wealth-tax-for-medicare-for-all-plan.html
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)I'm all for taxing their wealth.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
beastie boy
(9,505 posts)Doesn't she know that it is seriously bad and no good and terribly awful, because... revolution? When does Warren bashing begin?
On a serious note: yes, it does make her stronger. Because it makes her more mainstream.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Chambi
(37 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)this plan.
On other hand, a Public Option allows people to try it out after seeing the actual details. I bet within 5 years, 70 to 80% of people will be signed up under the PO. Then, moving to MFA is easy. Point is, we'll get there quicker with a Public Option, and not run the risk of losing presidency and Congress because 60% or so of voters just don't want MFA (rightly or wrongly).
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ismnotwasm
(42,020 posts)Glad to hear it
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden