Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumThe Atlantic Accused David Sirota of Secretly Working For Bernie Sanders. But Where's the Evidence?
https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2019/03/the-atlantic-published-an-unfounded-conspiracy-the.html"A cloud of scandal hung over Tuesdays announcement that the Bernie Sanders 2020 campaign had hired investigative journalist David Sirota to fill the role of senior adviser and speechwriter. An article in The Atlantic by Edward-Isaac Dovere, titled Bernie Sanders Just Hired His Twitter Attack Dog, made the explosive claim that the veteran journalist had been secretly working for Sanders behind the scenes since December, and using his role as a journalist to attack the Vermont senators potential primary opponents.
Since December, David Sirota has, on Twitter, on his own website, and in columns in The Guardian, been trashing most of Sanderss Democratic opponentsall without disclosing his work with Sandersand has been pushing back on critics by saying that he was criticizing the other Democrats as a journalist, Dovere wrote, moving on to note that thousands of Sirotas tweets had been deleted.
It was a story that seemed tailor-made to go virala political unmasking of a candidate whose brand was integrity while also playing up familiar tropes about his online supporters. In that regard, it did not disappointit was quickly picked up and regurgitated by multiple outlets, including The Washington Post and USA Today.
But there was a problem with Doveres bombshell: It wasnt supported by any real evidence. The story hinged on an unverifiable quote which the speaker claims was misrepresented, along with innuendo stemming from the fact that Sirota deleted thousands of tweets following his employment. Paste spoke to multiple campaign insiders familiar with the matter, all of whom disputed Doveres timeline and narrative. Their accounts lined up with what we found through our own reporting on unrelated matters over the last few months. Other individuals have also come forward to publicly refute the articles claims."
More at the link.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(59,974 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(59,974 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts).... written by someone who has idolized Sanders for years.
Did you read this? https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/19/politics/bernie-sanders-hires-former-journalist/index.html
I guess the big question is, what does Sirota have to hide? Hours after he was "officially" hired (he was hires a couple of months ago) he deleted virtually ALL of his tweets accumulated over several years. At last glance, he left only about 100 tweets of more than 20,000.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CentralMass
(15,455 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(304,435 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)One of Sirotas fellow bashers of the Democratic party.
Walter Bragman: author of "Bernie Sanders: In His Own Words: 250 Quotes from America's Political Revolutionary" (non-disclosure that they wrote a book who's targeted sales to an audience that supports Sanders indicates a disregard - like Sirota's- for that basic tenet of ethical, credible reporting. If he had said, "In the interest of disclosure, I authored "Bernie Sanders: In His Own Words: 250 Quotes from America's Political Revolutionary" that would indicate that he was confident enough in their claims on their own merit, and he transparent and self-aware of a possible bias or financial stake in Sanders' popularity. But he didn't.)
On the staff of the Intercept, which has a long history of disparaging and trashing the Democratic party, which David Siorta, who he is defending also does. Would you give a lot of credence to a piece refuting reports of Jared Kushner not being approved by State Department for the clearance that he has, from a staff writer for the National Review or who someone wrote a book titled" "Donald Trump: In His Own Words: 250 Quotes from America's Political Hero" and didn't bother to mention that in the piece?
Also contributes to The Hill.
Also completely dismissive of the role of Russia in the 2016 election outcome - which is something that also supports a narrative that the stealing of the Oval Office from the elected Demcoratic candidate entirely a Democratic Party failure because they didn't choose Bernie as a candidate.
https://www.pastemagazine.com/writers?name=walker+bragman
https://www.patreon.com/walkerbragman
https://theintercept.com/staff/walker-bragman/
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)Is there one? A Trump presidency needn't be a nightmare for the left. On many issues, Clinton presidency might be
https://www.salon.com/2016/04/29/a_liberal_case_for_donald_trump_the_lesser_of_two_evils_is_not_at_all_clear_in_2016/
And that's all of that drivel I'll post here on DU - I should need no more to show what kind of person, and more importantly, what kind of "journalist" Walter Bragman is. As in, he's not one - at least not any more credible as a journalist than Stephen Miller, Steve Bannon or Dave Sirota.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(153,753 posts)Who are you going to believe-Facts or the opinion of a sanders supporter?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BannonsLiver
(17,662 posts)Nothing meanigful about it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Uncle Joe
(59,974 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,514 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(153,753 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Sanders has hired Sirota.
THOSE alone, which you know to be true, are totally damning. No Democrat would hire this evil creep, and yet Sanders has made him his speechwriter and brought him BACK into his inner circle.
Hell, when Sirota was fired 20 years ago from another campaign for similarly sleazy, lying smears -- racially inflammatory ones of a black candidate that time, that's when Bernie Sanders FIRST hired him.
Quite a job qualification.
Stop searching for some excuse, any excuse to deny the truth.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(304,435 posts)Link to tweet
They're trying to cover for David Sirota for cripe sake.. the guy who had to Delete 20,288 tweets(many on Russia).
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,514 posts)only apply to Bernie and his campaign?
Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,514 posts)Let's see what was deleted, assuming that's possible - through the "Way Back Machine"?? - and then decide whether there is anything nefarious going on. I admit, the act of deletion, by itself, is not necessarily a good look, but, there could be legitimate reasons for doing so and nothing untoward was being hidden. Let's just wait for the facts to develop and see... then conclude one way or the other.
Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(153,753 posts)There was no spoliation in that a third party reviewed and approved the deletion
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Someone didn't get the memo.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(304,435 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(153,753 posts)This is a concept that is applicable https://civilprocedure.uslegal.com/discovery/spoliation-of-evidence/
When a crucial document is lost by spoliation, the courts may try to infer the original information by applying spoliation inference rule. Spoliation inference rule is a negative evidentiary inference. When applying the rule, courts will review the altered document with inference against the spoliator and in favor of the opposing party. The theory behind spoliation inference is that when a party has destroyed evidence, it shows that the party had consciousness of guilt or other reasons to avoid evidence. Hence, the court will conclude that the evidence was not in spoliators favor.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(153,753 posts)Link to tweet
Sirota, 43, not only didnt mention his relationship with Sanderss campaign but apparently sought to erase his long history of attacks against Sanderss opponents, according to the Atlantic. Just hours before his hiring by Sanders was announced, Sirota deleted about 20,000 or so of his tweets. He suggested that the timing of the mass deletion was coincidental, telling the Atlantic that his account was scrubbed by an autodeleter that periodically and automatically removes his posts.
It remains unclear how long Sirota advised the Sanders camp before his hiring. Neither Sirota nor Sanderss representatives responded to multiple requests for comment on Wednesday.
Sirotas vitriolic tweets and blog posts also appear to be at odds with the ethos of the Sanderss campaign, which has stressed that it will respectfully engage other Democratic candidates. His hiring as a speechwriter also appears to be an acknowledgment that Sanders, whose extemporaneous public remarks have been a sign of his authenticity, will at times be scripted like other politicians.
The article in the OP is from a source that no one has heard of.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(45,976 posts)I wonder why Dovere isn't quoting the different source he went with.
Shakir told Paste he was surprised at Doveres account of their conversation and noted that hed subsequently reached out to the Atlantic writer to correct the record, but was rebuffed.
I reached out to [Dovere] and said it wasnt months; at most, it was a month, Shakir explained over the phone. And so, I sent him the dates and from what I understand, he thinks hes got a different source that tracks it differently.
Dovere did not respond to our multiple requests for comment, but his article fails to credit any source besides Shakir. Asked what he thought about the fact that no direct quote was used to make such a claim, Shakir replied, Theres no quote in there because I never said that Feb. 20 is when you probably start the clock on [Sirota] starting to do some work [for the campaign].
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)...(I'll stop short of saying "lying about) for a couple of months, that Sirota was working for the Sanders campaign WHILE he was working as a "journalist" bashing any Democratic candidate that fell in his sites. See what Sirota and then Shakir said here:
Link to tweet
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(45,976 posts)that's a far cry from your tweet you keeps posting that says otherwise.
His informal work goes back a month at most. Devore refused to correct the record and went with some anonymous unnamed source. How odd and defiantly shady that he continued to use the only named source who denies his story.
Dovere did not respond to our multiple requests for comment, but his article fails to credit any source besides Shakir. Asked what he thought about the fact that no direct quote was used to make such a claim, Shakir replied, Theres no quote in there because I never said that Feb. 20 is when you probably start the clock on [Sirota] starting to do some work [for the campaign].
I think it's pretty shady that Dovere wouldn't respond to The Atlantic's multiple requests for a comment on the discrepancies in his story. Why would any one who wrote a legitimate bombshell do that? They wouldn't. I think I'll chose to say I agree with the fact as that Walter Bragman said "Doveres bombshell wasnt supported by any real evidence." One could day it was "made up for some reason" if one wanted to stop short of saying he's "lying about" the story or he doesn't really have another source and it's just bullshit.
John Mulholland from The Guardian said the last piece Sirota did for them was the end of December
Link to tweet
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)....even if it was exactly two months (the minimum of "months" that would be January 11, possibly longer. Yet later in January Sirota was calling people "filthy liars", even while HE was "lying" about it.
Now Shakir appears to be changing his original story.
What's lost in all of this is the fact that Sirota deleted more than 20,000 tweets going back to 2008. What does he have to hide?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(45,976 posts)I really don't care unless he broke the law. I have said all I have to say on this and have things to do so I think I'm done with this conversation. See you later.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
R B Garr
(17,359 posts)Its obvious they are just trying to cover up now that they got caught, along with deleting 20,000 tweets.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CentralMass
(15,455 posts)The revelation that Sirota was consulting since February 20th? Is apparently the issue.
https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/03/19/politics/bernie-sanders-hires-former-journalist/index.html
"Sirota, who is known for both his reporting and combative Twitter presence, had been informally advising the campaign on a trial basis since the day after Sanders formally launched his 2020 bid for the presidency last month. But shortly before his hiring was announced, Sirota began erasing old tweets, many of which ran contrary to Sanders' call last month for supporters and surrogates to adopt a more friendly tone in their public exchanges with political rivals.
According to campaign manager Faiz Shakir, Sirota began the trial arrangement, in which he would assist Sanders with speechwriting, on Feb. 20, a day after Sanders made his candidacy official. Sirota left his post with the Capital and Main website on Feb. 14, Shakir said. He then signed a formal letter to become the campaign speechwriter on March 11. The trial period was to see how Sanders, who traditionally prefers to handwrite his own speeches on yellow-lined paper, would work with a speechwriter."
On another thread there are links to some 2016 tweets regarding Hillary's Wall St connections. They seem to be sited as evidence of "Sirota's treachery against the party while he was working for Sanders except he wasn't in 2016.
So this was a two or three week period, from February 20th until March 11th when Sirota signed on with the campaign and at which point he deleted tweets not in keeping with the campaign.
So I call bullshit on this bogus Issue.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)...and the section on the right in white references comments made on March 11, only ten days ago.
Why are you bringing up the 2016 primaries, i.e., "links to some 2016 tweets regarding Hillary's Wall St connections..." ?
Two or three weeks, a month, two months, years......doesn't really matter. The fact is he was working for the Sander campaign, formally or on a trial basis, when he accused people of being "liars" for talking about what he was doing at the time.
PS - "he deleted tweets not in keeping with the campaign"? He deleted more than 20,000, leaving only 100! That many were "not in keeping with the campaign"? In that case, why was he hired by the campaign?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CentralMass
(15,455 posts)Do you have the full text. It is impossible to determine what it is referencing
There is nothing indicating that David Sirota worked for Bernie Sanders in 2016 that i have read.
He worked for him 19 years ago then on a trial basis from February 20th 2019, then was formally hired on March 11th 2019.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts).....the section on the right talks about only 10 days ago.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CentralMass
(15,455 posts)2016. I won't speculate like you did but I'll bet it was not working for Sanders in 2016.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)....was working for Sanders since a number of weeks ago (while he was calling people "liars" for saying he was!) before he was formally hired by the campaign.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CentralMass
(15,455 posts)According to the CNN article we are talking about a 19 day period.
Sirota's trial period February 20th 2019 until March 11th 2019 at which time he was hired.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)...while he was calling people liars for saying that. And based on what has recently been said, can we really believe it began on February 20?
Then we have the unanswered question, why did he delete virtually ALL of his tweets over the last several years?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CentralMass
(15,455 posts)basis for 19 day before he was formally hired. At which time he deleted those tweets. If he lied about that fact then he lied about that fact.
He clearly deleted the tweets because he had then signed a formal agreement to work for the campaign.
This was a 19 day period that this scrutiny of what he was doing in his previous job is relevent.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)....other Democratic candidates during that 19 day period, all the while working for the Sanders campaign and denying that he was, be it 19 days or two months.
And he obviously said things over the last month, two months, and years, that he was ashamed of since he deleted virtually ALL his twitter work over the last several years.
Why?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
betsuni
(27,255 posts)Today, a trusted source.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)misconduct in another campaign.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(153,753 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CentralMass
(15,455 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(59,974 posts)Thanks for the thread CentralMass.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Renew Deal
(82,832 posts)Nothing is true. Nothing is false. Doesnt matter if they admit to something today, they deny tomorrow.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
dalton99a
(83,922 posts)For instance, anything they don't like is fake news
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
nini
(16,691 posts)It's not hard to see really..
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Ouch.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
R B Garr
(17,359 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(304,435 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
we can do it
(12,731 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
R B Garr
(17,359 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(19,518 posts)who told The Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/12/bernie-sanders-supporters-vote-clinton-trump
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dalton99a
(83,922 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
lapucelle
(19,518 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)...will his VP choice be Jill Stein?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(304,435 posts)see Walker Bragman's name but no HA Goodman.. only John Paul White.
And, I see no rest of the story at the link. What's up with that?
Thanks, lapucelle
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
lapucelle
(19,518 posts)HA Goodman cites Walter Bragman frequently in his screeds. In the irrational tirade that he wrote on November 7, 2016, HAHA urges voters to vote for Wikileaks and Stein, the source for the "data" and "evidence" is a Early November 2016 by Bragman "exlaining" "Jill Steins role as savior of our electoral system".
I won't link to third party/trumpian/ratf***ing garbage, but the diatribes are easy to find.
Goodman, Bragman, Sirota, Turner, and Gray were all working hard to depress turnout and sell Stein's line of bs in November 2016. What they did was disgusting. They are fully deserving of contempt for their role in the election of Trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(304,435 posts)Full of Shit.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CentralMass
(15,455 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(19,518 posts)Here's what CNN said:
snip=========================================
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
sheshe2
(86,957 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
R B Garr
(17,359 posts)Haha Goodman. What an embarrassment.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(153,753 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
comradebillyboy
(10,419 posts)will shit on this cycle. They published every ridiculous hit piece from Goodman and Bragman and their ilk in 2016. Once good liberal blogs have descended into green tinged cesspools.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Talking Tom
(60 posts)And when .
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)....(99.5% of his work over several years) he also made wholesale blocks, too. Not many people can now read his tweets.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
kcr
(15,516 posts)Here is he is, along with fellow piece of work Matt Taibbi claiming deleted anti-Kamala Harris trollbots on Twitter are real:
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/01/twitter-has-suspended-suspected-troll-accounts-posting-anti-kamala-harris-content-.html
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CentralMass
(15,455 posts)hired on March 11th 2019. Or 19 days. At which point he deleted his tweets.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
sheshe2
(86,957 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
kcr
(15,516 posts)Slimy.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)In the past, Sanders's spox have been more than willing to immediately publicly accuse any analysis of his MFA that doesn't support in full every speculation within of being a "corporate funded attack."
But since scrutinzing the source of any statement is fair game, here's some information on the author of this article:
Walter Bragman: author of "Bernie Sanders: In His Own Words: 250 Quotes from America's Political Revolutionary" (non-disclosure that they wrote a book who's targeted sales to an audience that supports Sanders is a big red flag. If they had said, "In the interest of disclosure, I authored "Bernie Sanders: In His Own Words: 250 Quotes from America's Political Revolutionary" that would indicate that they were confident enough in their claims on their own merit that they they are self-aware of a possible bias and sought to put it aside. But they didn't.)
Also writes for the Intercept, which has a long history of disparaging and trashing the Democratic party, which David Siorta, who he is defending also does.
Also contributes to The Hill.
Also completely dismissive of the role of Russia in the 2016 election outcome - which is something that also supports a narrative that the stealing of the Oval Office from the elected Demcoratic candidate entirely a Democratic Party failure because they didn't choose Bernie as a candidate.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bhikkhu
(10,754 posts)Which Sander's campaign formally announced the other day. I don't care when he started. Recalling the last election, Sirota is the kind of guy that shouldn't be welcome anywhere near a Democratic election.
I have trust issues about Sanders, based on what happened last time around, and based on Trump being in the White House partly because of him. Hiring Sirota really tears open an old wound.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Cha
(304,435 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dogman
(6,073 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(19,518 posts)Is this the Mike Elk who worked at In These Times before he was hired/fired by Politico? Remember that time when he said he worked with Maggie Haberman in a newsroom?
Link to tweet
Poor dude is having another twitter meltdown.
Link to tweet
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(153,753 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(46,154 posts)Link to tweet
john mulholland
✔
@jnmulholland
'David Sirota in the Guardian has been trashing most of Bernie Sanders's opponents without disclosing his work with Sanders'
@isaacdovere in The Atlantic.
This is totally untrue. Once David was approached by Sanders he wrote nothing else for us.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/03/sanders-promised-civility-hired-twitter-attack-dog/585259/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share
1,845
10:11 PM - Mar 19, 2019
john mulhollandVerified account
@jnmulholland
Editor, Guardian US. Ex-Editor, The Observer (London), Advisor, Body & Soul. Advisor http://artskickersawards.com ; Advisor @libertychoiruk
London
https://www.theguardian.com/profile/johnmulholland
Joined January 2010
I just want Bernie to go away from the POTUS race so we all stop wasting time on him!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
lapucelle
(19,518 posts)sometimes linking to hit pieces he wrote for the Guardian about other Democratic contenders. Sirota may have stopped selling his crap to the Guardian, but he was still hawking it on social media.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/dec/20/beto-orourke-congressional-votes-analysis-capital-and-main
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden