Biden reminds me of an old boxer

[LeftTurn3623]

A old boxer that was once a great fighter and loved to watch him compete in the ring. But now he is past his prime and I feel bad watching him take a beating.

I have always liked Biden but it is hard watching him in these debates. He cannot even get a coherent sentence out. He misspeaks consistently and loses his train of thought.

How can anyone honestly say this isn't true. The media is finally starting to call this out. I know everyone tries to look the other way and act like it isn't true because most feel Biden is the best chance to beat Trump. I actually felt this way also. I thought Biden would be the easiest road to removing Trump. I just like other candidates policies more and think most of the top 5 would beat Trump.

But I'm starting to worry now that Biden wont be able to beat Trump if people actually pay attention. Trump will use this against Biden. I worry Trump will make a mockery of Biden being incoherent on stage with him. He already release a video of it. They will beat this subject into the ground and just show samples of Biden. This could be ugly

[TidalWave46]

2. I want to take beatings like Biden.

I would be ok with you watching and feeling bad for me.

[Cha]

60. lol omg

ohhh!

[Gothmog]

69. @JoeBiden 's Support Increases Post Debate According to new 538/ @Ipsos Poll

Link to tweet

[TidalWave46]

74. Perfect.

[33taw]

3. Do the math There is a reason Putin doesn't want him and has nothing to do with age.

[Act_of_Reparation]

16. That's an absurd rebuttal.

It's in Russia's interest to put the weakest candidate in the White House. No matter who he's measured against, that candidate will always be Donald Trump. They're not mobilizing against Warren or Sanders or Buttigieg or Harris because they're not the front-runner. It's really that simple.

But even if that wasn't the case, what Russia thinks of Joe Biden doesn't change the fact we all see him up on stage, struggling to make a point like a pilot trying to land a Cessna in a hurricane.

[33taw]

30. Not in my opinion. Russia created a disinformation campaign in favor of Bernie Sanders in 2016.

This was to divide the Democratic Party. They succeeded. This year Tulsi Gabbard is their candidate. Russia was scared of Hillary Clinton in the same way they fear Biden. I believe he stutters and that disability is a challenge to overcome in debates. Last night’s gaffe is being way blown out of proportion. I am not sure that it was even a gaffe. His tense was correct, but the meaning confusing. While he is not in my top two candidates, I would vote for him and have full confidence in him if he were our nominee. I will not disparage any candidate. Just me, but I saw how Russia played us the last election, not this time.

[Gothmog]

71. Inside the Russian effort to target Sanders supporters -- and help elect Trump

The Mueller report is clear that Russia wanted to help trump and some of these efforts involved promoting sanders

Link to tweet

A pair of Clemson University researchers, at the request of The Washington Post, examined English-language tweets identified as coming from Russia, many of which were designed to influence the election. It is impossible to say how many were targeted at Sanders supporters because many don’t include his name. Some 9,000 of the Russian tweets used the word “Bernie,” and those were “liked” 59,281 times and retweeted 61,804 times.

But that was only one element of the Russian effort to target Sanders supporters, the researchers said. Many thousands of other tweets, with no direct reference to Sanders, were also designed to appeal to his backers, urging them to do anything but vote for Clinton in the general election.

“I think there is no question that Sanders was central to their strategy. He was clearly used as a mechanism to decrease voter turnout for Hillary Clinton,” said one of the Clemson researchers, Darren Linvill, an associate professor of communications. The tweets examined in the new analysis “give us a much clearer understanding of the tactics they were using. It was certainly a higher volume than people thought.”

Russia is trying to attack Biden because Biden is the strongest general election candidate

[Gothmog]

70. Russia wants trump to win

The Mueller report was clear on this

Link to tweet

Now Russia is trying to attack Biden because Russia fears Biden

[33taw]

73. The Russians are promoting Gabbard to split the party. But I don't think that will happen.

[evertonfc]

4. Biden can take it

Since Mayor Pete isn't going to be the nominee, you'll have to eventually come around.

[LeftTurn3623]

10. I will absolutely vote for Biden

I wouldn't even think twice and it wouldn't even bother me

[dewsgirl]

29. Me too.

[Gothmog]

72. Same here

I have already maxed out in what I can donate to Biden during the primaries or this thread would encourage me to make another donation to Joe

[Renew Deal]

5. Trump is the oldest president ever, and some think going even older is the answer.

Nothing says the future better than candidates born in the 30’s and 40’s.

I am starting to buy into the idea that some of our candidates aren’t going to be around to see the consequences of their decisions. So what do they care? It’s about power and prestige.

[Cha]

61. No.. it has nothing to do with age and "the answer".

[PatSeg]

6. Joe Biden has a stutter

It is a disability that he has had for his entire life and as such, it takes great effort at times to sound coherent. He spent a lot of time as a child reciting poetry in front of a mirror to overcome the problem, but it is always still there.

Trump can hardly make fun of anyone for being incoherent. Coherence is hardly his strong suit and he is getting worse all the time.

[LeftTurn3623]

9. The stutter is not the issue

he is losing his thoughts on the stage. He is misspeaking. He was not this bad. I went to his rally when he was running with Obama the first time through. It is more than a stutter issue.

[PatSeg]

31. It has gotten worse

but the core issue is still the stutter. You add age to any condition and it will appear worse.

[dchill]

34. I hear you. I see what you are seeing.

I, too, will vote for him.

[Caliman73]

53. You better believe Trump will make fun of Biden's stutter.

Trump has no shame and no insight into his own deficits. He was absolutely go after Biden for any stutter, misspoken word, slip up, etc...

Now the question is, will Democrats and the independents and non-active voters we need to win, care about that? That remains to be seen.

I know that I will vote for anyone who is the Democratic nominee. Of those nominees, my least favorites are Gabbard, Biden, and Buttigieg but again, I will vote for the Democratic nominee. My concern is whether the nominee will get people off the couch to come out to vote. over 40% of eligible voters didn't bother in 2016.

Republicans DO NOT have the numbers which is why they cheat. We have the numbers but we don't seem to have the energy to get people out.

Any way, I have digressed. Trump SHOULD NOT make fun of anyone given what an idiot he is, but making fun of people is ALL he has and he will try to find something to attack ANY of the candidates with.

[PatSeg]

55. Biden has been the object of ridicule

throughout his life. I don't think Trump's cheap attacks will phase him and the only voters who will be affected are the base who would never vote for a Democrat anyway.

I agree, Democrats tend to have an apathy problem and republicans often cheat and lie to win.

[Caliman73]

58. I think that we actually have quite a good group of candidates.

I agree that Biden would likely not be phased himself, though he may be vulnerable to Trump going after Hunter, Dr. Jill, or saying something about his other children including Beau. Trump is a disgusting and nasty man who I think would use anything to motivate his small base of haters.

I think that Warren might also have some vulnerability, especially if he were to keep harping on the Cherokee thing.

Ultimately, I think that each of the Dem candidates would likely be able to ignore his stupidity and go after him on his record of being a complete failure who was handed a good economy and has struggled to keep it afloat. As I said, I have my favorites and not so favorites but the WORST Democrat is 1000 times better than Trump.

[PatSeg]

62. Yes, that is a good point

Joe is very sensitive about his family and that could affect him, though he is a seasoned politician and has been through an awful lot. In that sense, he has an edge over Warren who is still new to political games on the national stage. I noticed during some debates, that she tends to let some of the criticisms get to her and that is from Democrats. Though I think she'll handle Trump better than what I perceive as "friendly fire". Maybe she just didn't expect it from fellow Democrats?

I'm sure she'll toughen up over the coming months. She is a natural fighter and I don't think Trump can deal with her. He really has a problem with strong, intelligent women.

[redstateblues]

7. "Media finally starting to call Joe out"?

Where have you been the last six months? The media has been constantly bashing Joe because of his long history of being gaffe prone. Guess which candidate has had a free ride with the media?

[BeyondGeography]

17. A fair and well-stated point

[PatSeg]

32. Yes

Long ago, the media put the "gaffe" tag on Joe. After that, any time he misspoke, they pulled out the "gaffe" card, even when it wasn't a gaffe. Often he was just telling the truth which was sometimes inconvenient or unexpected.

Though Trump does get criticized by the media, he does get away with so much that no one else, especially a Democrat could get away with. Trump is one big big walking gaffe.

[phleshdef]

8. BS. He was coherent the entire night save for that one slipup.

Which he immediately corrected.

[StarfishSaver]

12. Except he didn't correct it. He claimed he didn't say what everyone heard him say

Biden: If you notice, I have more people supporting me in the black community that have announced for me because they know me. They know who I am. Three former chairs of the black caucus, the only African American woman who’s ever been elected to the United States Senate, a whole range of people.

Booker: That's not true

Harris: Nope. The other one is here.

Biden: I said the FIRST. I said the FIRST African-American woman!

If he'd said, "I misspoke. I meant to say FIRST." and then maybe joked about not meaning to erase the African-American female senator standing next to him, this would be passed of as a harmless gaffe. But misspeaking and then crankily claiming he hadn't misspoken wasn't a good look at all.

And "he was coherent except that time he wasn't" isn't really a strong defense.

[phleshdef]

13. Yes he did. You know what he meant.

Keep harping on superficial, petty bullshit all you want.

[StarfishSaver]

15. That defense is wearing really thin

Why not just admit that he misspoke and leave it at that instead of blaming everyone else for his misstatements?

[phleshdef]

18. I did admit it and I didn't blame anyone else.

The OP still blatantly lied. Biden was on point all night other than that. You just wanted to argue so you completely ignored the context of my post.

[LeftTurn3623]

25. are you even watching the debate?

Go watch Biden's opening statement. Its not even coherent.

He says the next President of the United States has to defeat Donald Trump.

If you are the President then you already defeated Trump? And the question was after you are President.

Then he says - Who up here is likely to win the nomination in the first place - realizes he messed up and says win the Presidency in the first place

He then, what would have been good debate points, talking about how he learned Trump doesn't want him to be the nominee but loses his train of thought. Puts his head down and closes his eyes.

later on domestic abuse he keeps talking about "punching it" Its like you cant make this stuff up.

Look, I like Biden but I'm not going to pretend this isn't an issue

[phleshdef]

26. Biden has been stuttering his whole life. That isn't incoherence.

Incoherence is implying that he is mentally ill or under the influence of drugs.

He isn't the only candidate up there that has to correct their words when they are talking fast. He is just the only one you and others selectively pay attention to when it happens and its petty.

[PatSeg]

39. Why don't you put your efforts into

promoting your candidate of choice, instead of running down a man who has served this country honorably for many years. We are all capable of watching the debates and making our own determination, but as Democrats we do not appreciate someone on DU trashing a Democratic candidate who very possibly could end up as the nominee.

[LanternWaste]

42. You guys are really throwing anything at had at the wall hoping it sticks, eh?

The pretense is admirable in its consistency.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

65. Wow.

[PatSeg]

33. I have to say

I honestly thought he DID say first. I guess I heard what he meant.

[cwydro]

20. This.

I started out supporting Biden, but as soon as I started to pay more attention to him - it just became clear to me that he’s past his prime. He just is.

He looks tired to me, overwhelmed. It makes me sad, actually.

[LeftTurn3623]

11. Has anyone even considered where Biden will be in 4 years

running for reelection if he is this bad now?

[The Valley Below]

14. I'm more focused on making sure Trump won't be finishing up his second term.

Let that thought roll around in you head.

[Act_of_Reparation]

19. It's more on our mind than you're giving us credit for.

I like Joe Biden. I think he's likely to be the candidate, and if that's the case I would like him to win. But he's not filling me with fucking confidence. No amount of condescending finger-wagging is going to change that.

So let that roll around in your head.

[PatSeg]

37. Welcome to DU!

[The Valley Below]

38. Thanks. Its especially nice to hear those words when it is sincere.

IYKWIM.

[PatSeg]

41. You're welcome

and yes it WAS sincere! When it is not sincere, someone will say, "enjoy your stay"!

[The Valley Below]

44. I've heard that phrase.

LOL.

[PatSeg]

50. Some people

are a bit too quick to judge. Everyone was new at one time and most have said things that have rubbed people the wrong way.

[LanternWaste]

43. Your internet diagnosis is as valid as was Bill Frist's opinion of Terry Schiavo

[Celerity]

66. I think many have from the beginning, thus all the coverage and trial balloons about a 'one term'

run and naming a VP for his ticket in advance.

As long as Biden can beat Rump, he and the world will be fine for 4 years. Even in a somewhat diminished state (IF one even accepts that premiss that he is in one) he is 100000000% capable of being POTUS and a billion light-years better than Rump.

[Kesaco]

21. What gets me is his closing statement garbage

about "let's rise up, we can do this. Nothing has stopped us in the past". What bull$hit.

Telling that to the worker who has seen 40 years of stagnant wages and a decline in the standard of living and quality of life is a total slap in the face. And Biden's been in D.C. during those 40 years too.

And then there's the condescending remarks to younger people, "give me a break, my generation had it harder than the kids today". What a load of crap.

[Peacetrain]

22. 39 posts in 11 years and this is the one that gets your ire up

Nah his closing remarks are there to inspire us.. we can bring the country back from the madness of the Trumpians.

[Kesaco]

23. Sorry, I didn't know it was a contest to see how many posts one can kit.

But you jumped right to the profile I see.

Some of us do have a life outside of message boards.

[PatSeg]

35. Any time some one

jumps all over a Democratic candidate and they have a very low post count, it is normal to check and see if they are new, as this is the season for trolls to join these message boards and try to create havoc among Democrats. Most DUers will do this as we've been severely burned before, especially in 2016. We have good reason to check such things.

Also we check low count posters to see if they ARE new so we can welcome them to DU. I was about to welcome you even though I disagreed with your comment and the tone.

[MD shmoo]

24. Joe Biden destroying his own candidacy is his core skill set

This statement pretty much distills it into its core essence for me:

"...the only person in the world who can truly destroy Joe Biden’s candidacy is Joe Biden… we just did not expect it to be his core skill set."

http://www.borntorunthenumbers.com/2019/11/btrtn-incoming-outgoing-cool-pete-can.html

[highplainsdem]

46. Despite several months of people wrongly opining that Biden's destroying his own candidacy, he's

still the front-runner.

[emmaverybo]

63. In spite of himself, so far, more voters want him. So they are overriding his worst instincts I

guess.

[BannonsLiver]

27. Wow the mayor Pete folks are super salty about Biden for some reason

What is it specifically that got your hackles up other than “he’s an old”?

[MD shmoo]

45. "Salty"?

He doesn't "get my hackles up," Biden is simply not my first choice candidate. Biden is like going with my elderly parents to Old Country Buffet, the food isn't exciting and won't kill you but I'd prefer Ethiopian (but good luck convincing my folks to eat that). Opting for Joe when you have lots of other options is as exciting as having a bowl of Grape Nuts for breakfast.

[highplainsdem]

47. Polls have shown that voters are opting for Biden because they believe he's the most likely to beat

Trump, and because they believe he'd be the best leader.

All other reasons for preferring a candidate to become our nominee are trivial by comparison..

[MD shmoo]

51. Highplainsdem

You seem to be conflating 2 different things, personal preferences and aggregate preferences. The "Biden is most popular thus the best" isn't a good argument to make on his behalf as it's actually a logical fallacy (argumentum ad populum). The entire point of the primaries is to get voters like you and me the chance to express our opinions and not simply steamroll to a predetermined conclusion that "yep, let's run Joe." I won't be upset if he wins or not vote for him in the general, but it still doesn't mean he's my preferred choice. And while Joe has a plurality lead in nationwide polling right now that doesn't mean that lead will prove durable once the voting begins.

[highplainsdem]

52. The entire point of the primaries is to choose a nominee who can win the GE. Otherwise it's simply

a popularity contest that's irrelevant to political reality and political power.

[MD shmoo]

54. "Entire point of the primaries"

At the November 2019 equivalent point in the 2008 election, Hillary was up on Obama by 20 points. And he won the general election. I don't think I even need to remind everyone about how the results turned out in 2016.

https://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/05/poll.presidential.08/index.html

[BannonsLiver]

48. I'm sorry you feel that way.

[33taw]

64. I love Joe Biden.

[beachbumbob]

28. I find it amazing to think any democrat believes Biden won;'t beat trump

Not a single state that any of the other democratic candidate running would win that Biden would not win and I dare there are states the other democratic candidates have no chance to win that Biden can and will win

BAM

[PatSeg]

36. I saw something on MSNBC last week

about Independent voters and disgruntled republicans in Michigan. They do not plan on voting for Trump again, but they won't vote for a candidate that they perceive as being too far left such as Warren or Sanders. I really like Warren, she is in my top two, but how many voters would we lose if they believed all the right-wing hype about socialism and leftists? Enough to lose the election?

Incidentally, I do not think Warren is extreme at all. I am just talking about perception and I know it is essential that we win in 2020. It is still early, however, a lot can change in the coming months.

[Sloumeau]

57. Gothmog, Thanks for posting this.

I am very interested in what the Independent voters think. Do you happen to recall what show it was on and/or about what day it was on?

Thanks.

[LanternWaste]

40. I too let my biases remind me of only that which validates those biases.

That too, is ugly. But so much more obvious in its intent and agenda than we may actually believe.

[IronLionZion]

49. That's why we need a televised boxing match between him and Trump

[The Valley Below]

56. We could pay for universal healthcare with the pay-per-view receipts. LOL.

[emmaverybo]

59. This post and all other such critiques I have encountered ignore the numerous times outside

the debate format that Joe has spoken quite well and in fact with an authenticity, thoughtfulness, empathy, and resonance other candidates less frequently bring to their speaking occasions.

In his launch he presented a core message of unity and a ringing indictment of Trump citing Charlottesville as a defining moment, which was nothing less than stirring. Though others followed much later with a call to unity, Biden was the first to sound this theme. Many snickered at the time, criticizing him as an appeaser, though it was clear he wanted to send divisive, bigoted haters “back under their rocks,” not embrace them.

His interview with Anderson was moving and focused. His appearance in Selma; before many black journalists in a 90 minute interview, from which iiirc none took away a negative impression; his speech on foreign policy, an area other candidates had completely neglected; his speech in Iowa roundly acclaimed; his recent town hall with vets— none of these do his critics recognize and all range from very good to remarkably good.

He was unscripted at the climate change town hall and solid for his clarity, focus, fluency in the subject. None of these occasions were marred by the wording glitches, the slips of tongue critics hammer on out of all proportion to the rest of his time campaigning. Overlooked as well is his ability after rallies to reach people individually in a reaffirming and positive way, with such a sensitive touch that many remark on it, remember it.

Personally, I love to hear Biden and am inspired by what he has had to say about who we are and can be. I believe he can and will accomplish his plans, deliver on his promises. Talking pretty is not all there is to campaign promises. Being able to follow through within a political reality and building consensus is what’s crucial.

The time critics take to wax eloquent on Biden’s occasional and momentary slips of the tongue assures me that they are ticked off that he has support their preferred candidate or political ideology still needs and still lacks. Ahead in the polls, ahead in endorsements, “the old boxer” taking it from all sides, is managing the ring like the pro he is—with grace, heart, and stamina, a winning combination.

[The Valley Below]

67. Biden also reminds me of an old boxer. A guy named George Foreman, who won the heavyweight crown

at 45 by a knockout!

Punch! Punch! Punch! LOL.

[emmaverybo]

78. Wonderful

[Gothmog]

68. Opinion: The four myths debunked in the debate

Link to tweet

Then there is the “Biden is a goner” storyline. To be clear, he makes plenty of small gaffes (“punching” against domestic violence, boasting of his support from the “only” black woman elected to the Senate), but none has or is likely to dislodge his core base of support, especially among African American voters who know him and appreciate his loyalty to former president Barack Obama. Every once in a while, as he did on foreign policy questions, Biden reminds us that the prospect of an experienced insider sounds attractive to an electorate that has watched Trump blow up one alliance, government institution and norm after another. (“I’d go back in making sure we had the alliances we had. ... [Trump] has given North Korea everything they wanted, creating the legitimacy by having a meeting with Kim Jong Un, who’s a thug — although [Kim] points out that I’m a rabid dog who needs to be beaten with a stick.”) Biden might not win the nomination, but he has as good a chance as four or five of his rivals.

[Gothmog]

75. Eugene Robinson-"sounded authoritative in a way that showed his experience and his stature as Vice P

Link to tweet

[bmbmd]

76. But the fighter

still remains!

[highplainsdem]

77. If you actually want to understand why Biden "missspeaks" then read this:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287355152

If you don't bother to read the article that links to, then you really don't want to understand.

[IronLionZion]

79. For violence against women, Biden will keep punching at it

Kamala trying hard not to laugh