Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumprimary today, I would vote for: Undecided
msongs
(69,451 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
sheshe2
(86,096 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PhoenixDem
(581 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JoeOtterbein
(7,760 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Autumn
(45,802 posts)the wealth of this country. Thanks for the post Uncle Joe.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
PoindexterOglethorpe
(26,132 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Uncle Joe
(59,676 posts)Tuition or Dinner? Nearly Half of College Students Surveyed in a New Report Are Going Hungry
By Kaya Laterman
May 2, 2019
In the coming weeks, thousands of college students will walk across a stage and proudly accept their diplomas. Many of them will be hungry.
A senior at Lehman College in the Bronx dreams of starting her day with breakfast. An undergraduate at New York University said he has been so delirious from hunger, hes caught himself walking down the street not realizing where hes going. A health sciences student at Stony Brook University on Long Island describes poverty naps, where she decides to go to sleep rather than deal with her hunger pangs.
These are all examples of food insecurity, the state of having limited or uncertain access to food. Stories about college hunger have been largely anecdotal, cemented by ramen and macaroni and cheese jokes. But recent data indicate the problem is more serious and widespread, affecting almost half of the student population at community and public colleges.
A survey released this week by Temple Universitys Hope Center for College, Community and Justice indicated that 45 percent of student respondents from over 100 institutions said they had been food insecure in the past 30 days. In New York, the nonprofit found that among City University of New York (CUNY) students, 48 percent had been food insecure in the past 30 days.
(snip)
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/02/nyregion/hunger-college-food-insecurity.html
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(19,495 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PhoenixDem
(581 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TexasTowelie
(115,279 posts)https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/02/nyregion/hunger-college-food-insecurity.html
The article also indicates that there are plenty of students eligible for SNAP benefits that don't receive them.
Personally, I wonder how much the students pay for their cell phone coverage and whether they would be eligible for Lifeline phones so that they could lower their phone bills. I also wonder how many of the students are using their money for booze or drugs--having frequent occurrences of the munchies can cause increased appetite and food insecurity.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PoindexterOglethorpe
(26,132 posts)Also, this is rather anecdotal, which is not to deny what the students are actually saying, but it's hardly a proper survey. Somehow I don't really think it's half of all college students across the nation.
In many schools, students who live on campus are required to buy a food plan. When my son attended Reed College, students found that even the minimum plan allowed enough food that they'd simply get extra, put it on a shelf in the cafeteria, and off campus students would help themselves.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Uncle Joe
(59,676 posts)A survey released this week by Temple Universitys Hope Center for College, Community and Justice indicated that 45 percent of student respondents from over 100 institutions said they had been food insecure in the past 30 days. In New York, the nonprofit found that among City University of New York (CUNY) students, 48 percent had been food insecure in the past 30 days.
(snip)
CUNY has discovered that signing up students for SNAP, or the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, has helped. In 2009, the school system brought in Single Stop USA, a nonprofit that connects individuals with social services. Since then, the nonprofit and other partners have served over 122,000 CUNY students, each of whom have received about $3,000 worth of benefits each year, said Sarah Crawford, the nonprofits national education director.
Many states, including New York, have work requirements to get SNAP, but such a requirement should be waived if the recipient is a student, Ms. Crawford argued. In addition, many advocates say that SNAP benefits should be redeemable at dining halls and stores on campus.
Niasia Starling, a 22-year-old student at Nassau Community College, part of the State University of New York system, recently had her SNAP benefits terminated because she stopped working to take care of an ill parent.
(snip)
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/02/nyregion/hunger-college-food-insecurity.html
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(19,495 posts)to finance his last year at NYU, but is reluctant to accumulate more debt. (He also moved from Manhattan back to his parents home in Queens because of the high cost of living in the city.)
Another is the mother of a young child, struggling to put food on the table. While in school, she's working two part-time jobs and living in a homeless shelter so that she can finish her last year and pay back the $5000 loan that she needed to finance tuition.
It's clear that not every case is the same.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/02/nyregion/hunger-college-food-insecurity.html
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)....one needs to make sensible life choices while attending college.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
lapucelle
(19,495 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(59,676 posts)(snip)
Many factors are accountable for student debt. The growing problem of student debt has become more prominent, inspiring numerous documentaries that examine the causes and effects. One factor is amount of interest on the loans. Another factor is the new guidelines developed by the federal government. There are now new rules deciding who can borrow, as well as how much debt they can take on. Colleges and universities have been increasing the costs for students to attend schools. This is subsequently increasing the amount of debt the students take on as student loans. Reports have shown that borrowers who finished college in the early 1990s were able to manage their student loans without an enormous burden. The average debt increased 58% since in the seven years from 2005 to 2012. The debt for students in the United States rose from $17,233 in 2005 to $27,253 in 2012.[1] Some blame the economy for the debt increases, but in the same 7-year period credit card debt and auto debt have decreased.[1] According to the American Center for Progress' report on the Student Debt Crisis, within the past three decades the cost of attaining a college degree has drastically increased by more than 1,000 percent.[2] If student debt went in rhythm with inflation since 1992, then graduates would not be facing this immense debt pressure. From 2015 to 2017, the student loan debt in United States saw a steady ascension, where New Hampshire carried the highest average debt per student, at $27,167.[3] Newer data, as of 2018, reflects an even larger crisis and cumulative level of student debt.
As of 2018, a total of 44.2 Million borrowers now owe a total of over $1.5 Trillion in student debt. In addition to more borrowers, and the total amount owed having more than doubled (up 250%) from $600 Billion to $1.5 Trillion in 10 years, according to Forbes Magazine [4], the rate of delinquency greater than 90 days, or default, has doubled to over 11% nationwide, according to the Federal Reserve.[5]
(snip)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_debt
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)....and didn't believe the world owed us a living. I started working when I was 14 years old, delivering newspapers on my bicycle. Through high school (where my typical day lasted from about 7:00 AM to 5:00 PM) I worked weekends (and all summer), and did so throughout my college career.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(59,676 posts)over the past thirty years while at the same time income has remained stagnant or even receded for the vast majority of working Americans while an ever increasing competitive world demands higher education just to maintain a decent standard of living and you're willing to pass judgment on two entire younger generations because they were born into this mess, is that right?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)...under $0.30, etc.
College +1000% to whatever
Gas +1000% to about $2.50
Minimum wage +1000% to about $11.00
It's not simply anecdotal.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(59,676 posts)The U.S. still dominated the world, products labeled "made in Japan" were considered an aspersion (as being cheap,) Europe had just climbed out of the devastation from World War II.
Many colleges and universities in the 1960s were tuition free.
The 1000% increase in college tuition started 30 years ago that would be 1989 after Reaganomics had taken hold while the minimum wage was 3.35 an hour.
When Did State Schools Start Charging Tuition?
A series of social and legislative changes in the 60s ended an era of tuition-free state universities in the US and started the current student loan crisis.
Up until the 1960s, and since Lincolns land grants in the 1860s, state universities used to be tuition-free (college wasnt free, it was tuition-free at state schools and otherwise inexpensive). The changes began after WWII, as the GI Bill increased the number of Americans wanting to go to college, and continued into the 1960s, culminating in Civil Rights and student protests.
(snip)
The US had an era of tuition-free public state colleges which ended in the 1960s. Though there were small increases to college costs from WWII until the 1960s, the fees were consistent with a growing demand and increased attendance.
College students were at the heart of the Civil Rights and Anti-war Protests fueling political agendas, while society and business were beginning to expect a college education from most adults. As campuses expanded to meet the increased demand, state per-student funding for public colleges began to shrink. This also marked the beginning of government guaranteed student loans and thus the start of the current student debt crisis.
http://factmyth.com/factoids/state-universities-began-charging-tuition-in-the-60s/
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)October 15, 1962 Increased from $1.00 to $1.15
October 15, 1964 Increased from $1.15 to $1.25
January 1, 1967 Increased from $1.25 to $1.50
February 1, 1968 Increased from $1.50 to $1.60
July 1, 1970 Increased from $1.60 to $1.85
I entered college in 1966, graduated in 1972 (two extra years due to military service) At the time CCNY (City University) and SUNY (State University) were tuition-free.
Now, what's this about college tuition going up 1000%.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)them for struggling?
How self entitled are you?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
progressoid
(50,425 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)with tuition, but you kids just want a handout!"
Like this is Onion level parody of Boomers at this point.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)....that's 10X, over a period of time, but at the same time EVERYTHING increased a similar order of magnitude.
Things go up. EVERYTHING goes up. That is the point.
"Self entitled"? That's pretty obnoxious. I'm hardly "self entitled" - throughout my life I never had anything handed to me and never expected anyone to hand anything to me.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(59,676 posts)haven't even been close.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Is this a parody, this has to be a parody. Do you read your own posts?
Tuition has, by the way, increased a lot faster than inflation, as has medical costs.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)today? ON EDIT: Or even be able to pay just tuition as you attend college?
No it cannot, again, you had things handed to you, including your opportunities, without even realizing it. The fact that you claim you did it yourself shows your own myopia.
EDIT2: How much in tuition did you pay for college?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
progressoid
(50,425 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)at most, for most things, inflation has increasted maybe 50-100% since 1989. Look here:
https://www.farmersalmanac.com/a-look-back-at-what-things-used-to-cost-18228
Seriously, can you not make claims that aren't so easily disproven.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Velveteen Ocelot
(119,273 posts)I went to a private liberal arts college in the late '60s. The tuition at the time was about $2K a year. Tuition at that college is now $54K a year. That $2,000, adjusted for inflation, is now about $16K, so why is my alma mater's tuition now $54K instead of $16K? And that amount of tuition is not at all unusual for private colleges these days. State universities aren't as expensive, but their tuitions have also increased far beyond the rate of inflation. The University of Minnesota's tuition was about $525; it's now about $16,000. $525 adjusts to $3,800, so how did they get to $16K?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
progressoid
(50,425 posts)Also all costs don't go up equally. I'll post it again...
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(19,495 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
progressoid
(50,425 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Uncle Joe
(59,676 posts)"Now, what's this about college tuition going up 1000%."
(Okay that would be the cost of obtaining a college degree)
This would be about 1989.
(snip)
Many factors are accountable for student debt. The growing problem of student debt has become more prominent, inspiring numerous documentaries that examine the causes and effects. One factor is amount of interest on the loans. Another factor is the new guidelines developed by the federal government. There are now new rules deciding who can borrow, as well as how much debt they can take on. Colleges and universities have been increasing the costs for students to attend schools. This is subsequently increasing the amount of debt the students take on as student loans. Reports have shown that borrowers who finished college in the early 1990s were able to manage their student loans without an enormous burden. The average debt increased 58% since in the seven years from 2005 to 2012. The debt for students in the United States rose from $17,233 in 2005 to $27,253 in 2012.[1] Some blame the economy for the debt increases, but in the same 7-year period credit card debt and auto debt have decreased.[1] According to the American Center for Progress' report on the Student Debt Crisis, within the past three decades the cost of attaining a college degree has drastically increased by more than 1,000 percent.[2] If student debt went in rhythm with inflation since 1992, then graduates would not be facing this immense debt pressure. From 2015 to 2017, the student loan debt in United States saw a steady ascension, where New Hampshire carried the highest average debt per student, at $27,167.[3] Newer data, as of 2018, reflects an even larger crisis and cumulative level of student debt.
As of 2018, a total of 44.2 Million borrowers now owe a total of over $1.5 Trillion in student debt. In addition to more borrowers, and the total amount owed having more than doubled (up 250%) from $600 Billion to $1.5 Trillion in 10 years, according to Forbes Magazine [4], the rate of delinquency greater than 90 days, or default, has doubled to over 11% nationwide, according to the Federal Reserve.[5]
(snip)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_debt
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
progressoid
(50,425 posts)Kind of like what Warren, Sanders, et. al. are proposing.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
progressoid
(50,425 posts)Try to do that today. My kids (and my wife & I) worked our asses off for their public education. Even with their grants and scholarships, and adjusting for inflation, they still have more debt than I did 40 years ago.
You can take your holier-than-thou attitude...
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Autumn
(45,802 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
totodeinhere
(13,215 posts)are rising so fast and at a rate much higher than the rate of inflation. Then we need to discuss what to do about it. This trend cannot continue.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(59,676 posts)of the published article was October of 2012 so thirty years before that would begin in 1982 not 1989.
(snip)
African American and Latino students are especially saddled with student debt, with 81 percent of African American students and 67 percent of Latino students who earned bachelors degrees leaving school with debt. This compares to 64 percent of white students who graduate with debt. With $864 billion in federal loans and $150 billion in private loans, student debt in America now exceeds $1 trillion.
(snip)
One of the major self-inflicted causes is the consistent decline in state funding for higher education, which had helped colleges keep tuition affordable. The steadily and rapidly increasing cost of college nationwide prompted a dramatic rise in student borrowinga natural result as families could no longer rely on scholarships, grants, and personal savings, which cannot keep up with the rapidly increasing tuition costs that have far outpaced the rise in other basic costs like those of health care, gas, and food.
Beyond the job losses and decreased savings, the recession also had a major impact on state colleges and universities directly. One major effect was a drop in colleges and universities endowment values, which meant that they had fewer dollars to distribute in grants and scholarships to the students who rely on them to pay for school. The recession also led to significant cuts in state higher education funding and consequently a further uptick in tuition.
Another cause has been the rise of the for-profit college sector. Students at non-four-year, for-profit colleges have seen the largest increase in student loan debt among any group of student borrowers. In 2001, 62 percent of freshmen at these schools took out student loansand just eight years later, that number jumped to 86 percent. These trends are a result of a lack of oversight of private lenders and the marketing practices of these loans by for-profit schools in particular.
(snip)
https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/education-postsecondary/reports/2012/10/25/42905/the-student-debt-crisis/
Your graph does not take into account payments on the debt.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
greatauntoftriplets
(176,500 posts)Plus, I had a job in downtown Chicago. That was in the opposite direction from school, which meant that I had a 30-mile daily commute. I also worked on Saturdays.
But to the subject at hand, I spent the evening with three college freshmen. All were happy with their separate universities' food service, though they were thoroughly enjoying non-institutional cooking while at home. With a chef father, they've been foodies since birth.
You're correct, it is all about sensible life choices.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)Seriously, its all about sensible life choices?
What if you can't live at home due to lack of stability at home?
This lack of empathy or even worse, lack of seeing this as a problem is more at home in the other party.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Autumn
(45,802 posts)Last edited Sun Dec 1, 2019, 06:56 PM - Edit history (1)
and poor people should pull themselves up by their boot straps. They have a "I got mine fuck you" if you can't do it attitude.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Kesaco
(43 posts)I graduated 30 plus years ago and back then, you could work a summer job and pay for a semester's tuition or more!
Today, a summer job might pay for 1 course for 1 semester, even if one lives at home.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
sheshe2
(86,096 posts)Where is the line drawn? Is it 5 years. 10,20,30,40?
So those of us that are older, who struggled to pay for college while working two jobs to get by during the school year...what do we get? College may have been far less expensive then, yet our paychecks were a lot smaller.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)I did the same thing, even was able to pay back my college loan early, but it maxed out at 5 digits, not 6 or more, and I have the ability to think beyond myself and maybe feel that others shouldn't share the struggles I had. What is with older generations wanting to make things harder for their kids and grandkids?
Seriously, what the fuck is up with this shit?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)And many college graduates are burdened with massive student debt.
Recommended.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(59,676 posts)It's amazing what our culture/society most values.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
guillaumeb
(42,649 posts)And millions of average workers are deluded by the propaganda story involving an average worker becoming a millionaire by virtue of hard work.
I say deluded because the US is massively class stratified. If one is born working class, one will generally never rise above that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(59,676 posts)for at least 40 years thanks to Reaganism and perpetuation by the corporate media conglomerates.
"I say deluded because the US is massively class stratified. If one is born working class, one will generally never rise above that."
Americans overestimate social mobility in their country
But in Europe, climbing the ladder is easier than most people believe
HOW likely is someone to move up the economic ladder? A new study by Alberto Alesina, Stefanie Stantcheva and Edoardo Teso of Harvard University compares perceptions of social mobility in five countriesAmerica, Britain, France, Italy and Swedenagainst actual levels. It finds that Americans tend to be optimistic, while Europeans tend to be too pessimistic. An American born to a household in the bottom 20% of earnings, for instance, only has a 7.8% chance of reaching the top 20% when they grow up. Americans surveyed thought the probability was 11.7%.
Politically left-leaning respondents are naturally more doubtful about the scale of social mobility, and are more likely to support redistributive government policies, than conservative ones. But Mr Alesina and his colleagues also find that people of different political stripes also respond differently to new information. When given pessimistic information about social mobility, left-wing respondents became even more likely to support economic redistribution. In contrast, right-wing respondents support for redistribution did not change. Perhaps, the authors suggest, right-leaning respondents see government as the cause of the problem, not the solution.
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/02/14/americans-overestimate-social-mobility-in-their-country
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Pepsidog
(6,291 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(45,802 posts)A senior at Lehman College in the Bronx dreams of starting her day with breakfast. An undergraduate at New York University said he has been so delirious from hunger, hes caught himself walking down the street not realizing where hes going. A health sciences student at Stony Brook University on Long Island describes poverty naps, where she decides to go to sleep rather than deal with her hunger pangs.
These are all examples of food insecurity, the state of having limited or uncertain access to food. Stories about college hunger have been largely anecdotal, cemented by ramen and macaroni and cheese jokes. But recent data indicate the problem is more serious and widespread, affecting almost half of the student population at community and public colleges.
A survey released this week by Temple Universitys Hope Center for College, Community and Justice indicated that 45 percent of student respondents from over 100 institutions said they had been food insecure in the past 30 days. In New York, the nonprofit found that among City University of New York (CUNY) students, 48 percent had been food insecure in the past 30 days.
https://hope4college.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/HOPE_realcollege_National_report_digital.pdf
insecure in the prior 30 days
56% of respondents were
housing insecure in the
previous year
17% of respondents were
homeless in the previous year
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Newest Reality
(12,712 posts)No, really. I am curious as to what the problem is with reports like that. We know that food insecurity is a big problem in this country now for a growing percentage of adults and children, so why wouldn't students factor in there?
What would you get or prove if this information was wrong? Do you believe otherwise and that there is no problem, so no big deal?
Maybe you could produce some information that contradicts student hunger problem and that would clear things up.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)to have extra money to pay for things while parents supported him and he didn't have to pay tuition. He didn't starve, so students today must be lying about it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Newest Reality
(12,712 posts)Well, I was in a similar position with my liberal arts degree back in the '70's. I eventually even got my own apartment in the middle of it and worked as a waiter and other jobs for my necessities. I went to a community college, (in Chicago) and was eligible for the BEOG and SEOG which payed for my credits and textbooks, which really helped me make it through and get the degree.
I fully appreciate what modern students are going through in comparison to that, even without a need for statistics. I have that empathy for the entire, young generation, all things considered and for what they face today by comparison. I kind of think us elders should be benefactors, mentors, wise old owls offering what we can from our experience when possible and being supportive. When I think of the world they are going into, I can am a bit relieved that I am not young because of what I am seeing now. Your heart kind of goes out to this generation in a "Brave New Word, it's wonders to behold."
It seems like that would be the way to approach it, but I guess I can't relate to feeling some sort of generational spite or whatever it would be that would illicit negative views or even apathy.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
PoindexterOglethorpe
(26,132 posts)is the complete disconnect from the reality of college and jobs.
Far too many students get totally set on majoring in (just to come up with an example or two) anthropology, or 17th Century French poetry with zero understanding of the job market in those fields. Don't get me wrong. I'm all for intellectual inquiry, after all, I'm the person who attended college on and off for more than 40 years, but let's get real.
I have also told many young people to go ahead and major in whatever most interests them, but not to lose sight of the fact that after they get that degree they need to support themselves. Too many young people, and their parents, somehow don't get that message. They somehow believe that no matter what they major in, a good job will be there when they are done. ARRGGHHHH! I also know that the college resource center (which goes by different names at different schools) which is intended to help the students get a job, universally complain that the students simply don't go to them. And they have lots of tools and resources to help the students. Regardless of the major.
Here's something else. It really isn't all that terrible to take a year or two or four more to complete school, if along the way you have a job and don't incur as much debt. Really. Not that terrible. Some years back a woman I knew told me her daughter was remaining in school, continuing to take classes and pile on debt because once she left school the clock would start ticking for repayment. So she thought that taking on more debt was better than repaying? I since lost contact with the mom, but I've often wondered how the daughter fared. I'm guessing she's one of the ones profiled in an article with $150k in debt and a sob story about how it's so hard, and how she'll never pay it back, leaving out the crappy decision to go into that debt in the first place.
Yet another point. There are many vocational tracks, especially at the fabulous community colleges across this country, that lead to well paying jobs. So what if it's not a four year degree? Who gives a flying fuck if you're earning a good living? Plus, you can always read and study or take classes that interest you later on. Yes, you can. Meanwhile, getting through a program in two years, sometimes less, has a lot going for it.
On a personal note, my younger son got a degree from a good four year school (psychology major, minor in marketing) and to my distress and annoyance, after he graduated, went back to pizza delivery instead of getting what most of us would think of as a real job. However, he supported himself, which is the point. He knew that neither his father nor I (we'd divorced while he was in college) would give him money. If he needed more than the pizza delivery job availed, he could get a second job or a better job. My point here is that parents need to convey clearly to their college children that once they get that degree they're on their own. Stop supporting them.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
squirecam
(2,706 posts)Tell taxpayers that they will pay for someone to get a degree in 17th century French poetry at 30k a year. Then, when the student cant get a job with that degree.....do...what?
Its going to lose us an election.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
murielm99
(31,215 posts)My oldest, who has two master's degrees, received deferments while she stayed out of school and worked. She took leaves of absence to do work related to her area of study. Maybe this girl should have checked about deferments.
Also, people who have degrees in esoteric areas can often find jobs where their knowledge is appreciated. These don't have to be in academic fields, but they can be.
One of my kids is an academic librarian. But she also lectures two classes a week. She works with students who are the first in their families to attend college. Many of them need extra help just to navigate the whole college experience. She works with a lot of immigrants and dreamers. Also, her library is happy to have people with backgrounds in anthropology, music, and other unusual areas. They can offer special knowledge.
I agree with you about the vocational tracks. That can be a very good choice for people. And they don't end up burdened with debt.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PoindexterOglethorpe
(26,132 posts)So many don't. And almost no one bothers to research the job prospects in their fields.
Heck, nearly 40 years ago I knew someone whose husband had just started training to be a barber. I recall thinking, "That's not a great career choice." And when he graduated barber school, he could not find a job. Had he bothered to research barber job prospects ahead of time? Nope. And that wasn't even the kind of field you'd think would be a problem.
I am highly pragmatic. I think about these kinds of things all the time, so I'm driven bat-shit crazy by the people who say things like, "I always LOVED costume design in 18th century Russian drama, and I don't understand why I cannot now find a job." Jesus H Fucking Christ. As I said above, it's fine to major in or study what you love, but don't forget you are going to need to make a living when you finish college. So do a bit of research to see what jobs are out there. And DO NOT COMPLAIN if it turns out there really aren't any jobs in 18th century Russian drama. You will probably make a fine barista.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
betsuni
(27,088 posts)I immediately disliked both when I found out they spent years sitting in classrooms for Ph.Ds in music composing (his) and anthropology (hers) with no intention of working in those fields. Evidently hoarding higher degrees is an end in itself. Upward mobility through expensive education with no actual mobility and dept. Weird.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PoindexterOglethorpe
(26,132 posts)do not often intend not to work in that field. I'm going to guess that's something only those who aren't worrying about how they pay for those degrees can begin to do.
I have a son who is in a PhD program in astronomy. He fully intends to work in that field. As an aside, those who are in the hard sciences don't have to worry about paying for school, once past the undergraduate level. It works this way: tuition and fees are paid for at the graduate (Master's or PhD) level. And there's a stipend for being a TA (teaching assistant) or RA (research assistant) which is almost a very base level of living, meaning rent and groceries. When I tell this to the parents of students in other fields they're astonished, but it's true. I actually learned this when my son was in high school, because his physics teacher told me this.
So yeah, if your kid is even remotely interested in the hard sciences, encourage them. School after the bachelor's degree will be free.
Otherwise, go into some good vocational area (plumbing, HVAC, medical records, paralegal) and spend no more than two years at a community college and go to work in a decent paying field.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
betsuni
(27,088 posts)The restaurant couple are middle or upper middle class. They feel the need to prove they're intellectuals by collecting advanced degrees, but also obsessed with being creative. Have a PhD but open a restaurant to express themselves artistically.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
drray23
(7,807 posts)And the tuition is paid for by the university. I did not know it was not true in other fields.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
madville
(7,447 posts)My 22 year old son graduated debt free from a 2 year technical college as an industrial electrician. He had job offers before he even graduated and was already working as an apprentice during the day while attending school at night. He is in a union facility now making $30 an hour and getting around 48 hours a week, he's making about $75k a year with great benefits right out of the gate. The average electrician at his employer makes $106k a year with overtime, it takes a few years to work up the pay scale levels though but he's motivated to do it as quickly as possible.
I advise younger people to go into trades if they want solid employment (electrician, plumber, nursing, etc.).
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)I mean, they talk about kids these days not having responsibility while they were able to work through college while that college was tuition free and minimum wage had more buying power. How dare this generation be born in a time when those things were already taken away.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Uncle Joe
(59,676 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Newest Reality
(12,712 posts)Maybe it is worth noting this in order for people to consider what you are relating?
I don't think we live in a total vacuum and my subjective impression of this culture as a whole is that the commercialism, capitalism and consumerism, (along with an emphasis on profit and acquisition) have discouraged empathy and sincere responses and made apathy and reactions a form of defense mechanism; one that really does more harm than good and probably does not work the way people might expect.
One can get deeper insights into this from a sociological perspective. We all have our biases and, being biases we see through them, (filters) rather than seeing them for what they are, so that's a good place to start looking because, a strong confirmation bias, (the mother of all biases) can be mistaken for a lack of empathy in a general sense, though that does not deflect from the importance of empathy and the corresponding compassion that goes with it, (both of which are beneficial and advanced human traits).
Even neurologically, we have mirror neurons that enable us to sense and feel the "other" in a way that helps us ascertain the nature and state of living beings from animals to humans. It is built into the nervous system, but we can learn to ignore and avoid it, especially if we are adverse to feeling discomfort and only interested in maintaining our comfort zone, all else be damned. It's easy to fall into that trap in a culture of commodities with advertising that acts as propaganda for lavish care of one's self over others. Yet, a society is really only the close and loose-knit structures of human connections and interactions based on consensual agreements mostly. If that breaks down, (which may be what we are seeing hints of) then the self-centered behaviors and hermetically enclosed thinking becomes very detrimental to the culture and its stability and cohesiveness. That is a good incentive to take on the problem of empathy and compassion as a personal investigation and practice.
I will leave here a suggestion to see The Century of the Self by the BBC on YouTube. It is a very basic primer as to some of factors that have been intentional influences on this culture for better or for worse. It has been methodical and even scientific and it continues today. While media and advertisements are not the only influences involved, they permeate the culture and many people are exposed to large amounts of it to the point that it can have a subliminal impact on their thinking and behavior. Of course, there is much more to this phenomenon, but you can see the setup for the modern Western mindset in that documentary and go from there.
Thanks!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)true Anti-Capitalists you would find on this board. I find that Capitalism really does force people to abandon their humanity and become Homo Economist, the selfish human, which is the opposite of what we had to be to survive for over 150,000 years.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
squirecam
(2,706 posts)Things are much better for todays youth then it was in our day. Technology has made it that way.
There will always be issues. But by any objective measure, the standard of living is much better today.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)The buying power of Generation X and Millennials is lower than it was for Boomers and the Silent Generation. Both of them were able to get damn near free college and subsidized loans for home ownership, something that is extremely difficult if not impossible for their kids and grandkids to get.
Technology is better, yet cost of living is higher, wages are stagnant or decreasing. Sure you can get some amazing tech, like the Iphone, but that doesn't help pay for bread.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Iggo
(48,068 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
madville
(7,447 posts)Four year college students become obese from their freshman to senior years. So half are starving and half are overeating?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(59,676 posts)Poor families have limited food budgets and choices, and must often stretch supplies toward the end of the month, before another check or allocation of Food Stamps arrives. This leads to unhealthy behaviors in several ways:
Families choose high-fat foods dense with energy foods such as sugars, cereals, potatoes and processed meat products because these foods are more affordable and last longer than fresh vegetables and fruits and lean meats and fish.
Poor families often live in disadvantaged neighborhoods where healthy foods are hard to find. Instead of large supermarkets, poor neighborhoods have a disproportionate number of fast food chains and small food stores providing cheap, high-fat foods.
Economic insecurity such as trouble paying bills or rent leads to stress, and people often cope by eating high-fat, sugary foods.
(snip)
https://scholars.org/contribution/why-poverty-leads-obesity-and-life-long-problems
I don't know whether your post is correct or not but this would apply to anyone living on a tight food budget.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Prosper
(761 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided