Bernie Is Stealing Trump's Campaign Playbook - Polls and Fake News

[TomCADem]

Look at this Board. Most Pro-Bernie threads consist of:

1. Bashing the media complaining about bias when he is covered or a Bernie blackout when he is not; or

2. Talking about polls that show him in the lead.

Who does that remind you of? The Bernie revolution is just warmed over Trump style populism built on attacking the "Democratic Establishment."

We need to get away from the status quo and elect a Democrat that can address and inform the people and elevate the political dialogue, rather than replicate and validate Republican talking points regarding Fake News, polls and Democrats.

We need a movement that empowers and informs the people, rather than one built around unquestioning devotion to a personality.

[nini]

1. There are lots of similiarities

Cult leaders have very similar techniques and personas.

[Thekaspervote]

4. He's not a uniter...

[NurseJackie]

47. Amen.

[DENVERPOPS]

102. He didn't get behind Hillary immediately when he lost

That did it for me folks............

[njhoneybadger]

139. If Hillary had won then his dream to be president was over

It's was always about Bernie

[BlueMTexpat]

160. While his failure to reprimand

his followers for their behavior in the NV caucuses in 2016 was the first thing that dismayed me and his unseemly efforts to look good before the Pope (WTF?) in the middle of the campaign really put me off, what you said in your post was what utterly destroyed him for me.

While I was in Hillary's corner from the get-go, I at first believed that he had something valuable to contribute to the campaign. That changed for me ... and it hasn't changed back.

He would literally have to be the last Democratic candidate standing - and I don't believe that will be the case - before I would ever vote for him.

[Hortensis]

66. As Sanders always says himself, "Anyway, the X do it too."

Usually inserts Democrats in comparison with Republicans, but a search of his campaign histories reveals a very strong pattern of Republicans "doing it too."

As said, both are populist leaders with one main target, as their followers' indiscreet remarks make so extremely clear: The Democratic Party.

[Thekaspervote]

89. The voice of sanity!!! Thank you

[getagrip_already]

159. I've always said he is our trump....

It is said by many that he is autocratic by nature, that he is losing his grip, that he is vindictive and selfish. Many, many people say that.

[TexasTowelie]

2. K&R! nt

[OldRed2450]

3. It's strategy.

Get people to only believe you or people who are 100% devoted to you. Nothing else is true.... It's dangerous and we must reject it at all cost.

[Thekaspervote]

5. +1000

[Cha]

33. Oh I have.. ever since BS thought it "was a good idea to

primary President Obama" in 2012.

[NurseJackie]

50. That's what did him in for me. I knew right then and there EXACTLY what he was all about...

... and it's not at all flattering.

[Cha]

53. Right.. it's common sense.

[Grasswire2]

6. WOW -- way to drive a wedge here. nt

[Amimnoch]

12. Pointing out the wedge being driven isn't the same as driving the wedge. -nt

[Cha]

26. ACTUALLY.. it's.. Way to Point Out What's Happening

right before our eyes.

[David__77]

28. Indeed.

Of course, it's a message board, and these things happen.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

126. Yes, ironic isn't it that some seek to drive a wedge to attack Bernie, the uniter in this race.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[Hav]

7. Yes, I have to say that there are some threads and posts here bordering on propaganda

Cheerleading for your candidate is one thing, willingly posting something that is demonstrably false is another.
Today, I was almost about to post that it won't take long before we'll see "The media is the enemy of the people" attack coming from our side. We really aren't that far away from that, maybe we are already past that point.

But you have to be careful what you post. For instance, countering that Bernie doesn't lie by pointing to a virtual cabinet of long-nosed wooden figures can get you into trouble here.

[Thekaspervote]

36. Exactly!!

[msongs]

8. has he criticized the democratic part and democrats today? nt

[TomCADem]

129. BERNIE SANDERS BLASTS DEMOCRATIC ESTABLISHMENT

This is a standard element of Bernie's stump speech. He bashes on the "Democratic Establishment" in breath, yet also claims that he was supportive of President Obama in another. It is disingenuous and operates to undermine support for Democrats.

https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-abortion-defeat-donald-trump-climate-change-democratic-1429833

Vermont Independent Senator Bernie Sanders went on the offensive against the Democratic Party "establishment" Sunday, claiming that only his 2020 presidential campaign understands it has to do more than just defeat President Donald Trump.

Speaking with NBC News' Chuck Todd on Meet the Press Sunday, Sanders said he and the other Democratic candidates for president have a "moral responsibility" to fight for Americans' health care and preserve the Earth from the negative effects of climate change.

The senator pushed back against Todd's suggestion Sanders was merely offering the same platform that got him defeated in the 2016 primaries by Hillary Clinton. Among many topics touched on during the interview, Sanders said he does not support any restrictions on abortion, and views the subject as medical, rather than political.

"There are millions of people who are sick and tired of that Democratic establishment," Sanders said, noting several recent polls which showed him ahead of Trump in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin.

[Iamaartist]

9. News Articles...

Sometimes Newsweek and Huff Post seem to Bash...Joe they must be Bernie writers I do notice that alot.....

[Lexee]

10. Populism on the right. Populism on the left. A lot of similarities.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

29. At some point it circles back on itself and the differences pretty much disappear.

[Scurrilous]

74. Horseshoe theory?

"In political science and popular discourse, the horseshoe theory asserts that the far-left and the far-right, rather than being at opposite and opposing ends of a linear political continuum, closely resemble one another, analogous to the way that the opposite ends of a horseshoe are close together. The theory is attributed to French philosopher and writer Jean-Pierre Faye. Proponents of the theory point to a number of similarities between the far-left and the far-right, including their supposed propensity to gravitate to authoritarianism or totalitarianism. However, the horseshoe theory has also received substantial criticism."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory


Interesting....

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

99. Maybe something like that.

It seems like the further left or right a political movement heads toward, the greater are the lengths to which its leaders go in order to maintain the more and more extreme requirements needed to keep the movement "pure," and finally the movements have to become authoritarian/totalitarian to be sure everybody stays in the movement and its doctrinal requirements are satisfied. So, on the extreme right you get fascism and on the extreme left you get Stalinism, both of which are terrible.

[TexasTowelie]

172. Your continuous mention of movements

makes me feel like I need to go...

[thesquanderer]

11. No surprise that ANY candidates' supporters like to post polls that show them in the lead. Meanwhile

I've noticed that a lot of anti-Bernie threads are started by you. I don't know that being "enthusiastically against" someone is any better (or worse) than being "enthusiastically for" someone.

[OldRed2450]

17. Regardless, what the OP said is the truth.

[thesquanderer]

23. I'd say maybe half true.

There were two supporting points: complaining about the media, and posting about any good poll numbers.

Well, as I said about the second, supporters of ALL candidates do that, when the opportunity presents itself. How many Biden supporters post about Biden's poll leads? Lots. When others have spiked in the polls, their supporters crowed about that too. I wouldn't expect otherwise, and don't believe it justifies any kind of Trump comparison.

So that leaves complaining about media coverage, and yes, there have been numerous posts over the months about how those complaints remind people of Trump. I'm not sure even that is justification for any kind of serious comparison, but at least I can kinda see it a little if I squint.

Is there some "cult of personality" thing happening? Yes, to some extent. I'd say Obama had some of that too. It's not necessarily a bad thing. After all, it seems to help people win elections. Looking for "a Democrat that can address and inform the people and elevate the political dialogue" can easily get you a Gore or a Kerry or a Hillary, who all fall into that category, and none of whom became President. I also would not say that Sanders would not be capable of addressing/informing/elevating "despite" also having that cult of personality.

[DaDeacon]

59. NOT REALLY...n/t

[Cha]

104. REALLY!

[ehrnst]

150. Yep.

[Cha]

174. And, and so well said!

2020!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

122. All it does is create divisiveness, when we should be uniting against our common enemy, Dolt45!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[TomCADem]

142. Bernie Sanders' Ugly Campaigning Is Bad for Democrats -- and Great for Trump

Bernie's campaign style is to go negative and elevate himself by bringing down not only his rivals, but the democratic party. This is not a new observation nor was it limited to the 2016 campaign. Early in the 2020 campaign, Bernie began to circulate misleading stories about many would be rivals as described in this story noting the early efforts to sideline Beto, which we witnessed on this board:

https://gen.medium.com/bernie-sanders-bad-attitude-is-bad-for-democrats-and-great-for-trump-bd0ac7376146

The problem is not the reporting on these politicians’ individual sins, some of which is correct, and some of which, like Sirota’s freakout, is wildly exaggerated. It’s not even the “boy who cried wolf” quality of hearing so many similar denunciations in a row, though it is increasingly tough to take any one hit piece seriously. It’s the implication that these errors are unilaterally disqualifying and should outweigh any good the candidates might do. There is no acknowledgment, after 2016, of just how dangerous that attitude might be or of what other forces might be arrayed against the candidates in question. The decision to tie Gillibrand to the fact that she represented tobacco companies as a young lawyer, for example, took place before she called for Al Franken’s resignation and her candidacy was nuked from orbit by powerful donors. Sanders’ core supporters went for Gillibrand as hard as possible, right out of the gate, not realizing that institutional sexism would eventually do their work for them. Again.

The lingering anger many Clinton supporters feel at Sanders isn’t because he ran against her or because he ran with the goal of pushing her to the left. Again, many of the ideas Sanders has nudged into the American mainstream are good ones. That mistrust stems from how reckless Sanders was with the anger he riled up. Long after he knew he’d lost, he continued to call Clinton “unqualified” or insist she was the head of a massive conspiracy. He knew it could do no good, and he should have seen that the dangerous toll of his negative messaging — the death threats to Democratic Party officials and reporters, the demolished coalitions and names dragged through the mud, the ever-increasing threat that if there was no Bernie, the nation itself would bust — was rising. Yet he appeared shocked that he could not undo the damage; even Bernie Sanders got booed for not supporting Bernie Sanders.

To destroy one rival this way may be regarded as a misfortune. To destroy them all looks like carelessness. It looks like a candidate who has not yet learned to push his advantage in any other way than going negative, even though any of his rivals, should they defeat Sanders, will be the only protection we have against a second Trump term. To be clear: If Sanders is the nominee, I will vote for him.

The good he might do outweighs the harm. It’s just not clear that Sanders knows how to say that about anyone else. The viciousness of the 2016 campaign may just have been a mistake, even if it was a bad one. If the pattern continues into 2020, we will have to call it something much worse.

[BootinUp]

13. K&R

[Hortensis]

14. Trump's playbook was Putin's. Sanders has locked at 8% here.

What's going on?

[Autumn]

15. I so look forward to your OP's and posts. They are so illuminating.

[George II]

16. I so look forward to your OP's and posts. They are so illuminating.

[Autumn]

20. I know you do George.

[OldRed2450]

18. I so look forward to your OP's and posts. They are so illuminating

I found this article to be 100% right. It's very well researched and written by a Warren supporter I disagree with but admire.

Link to tweet

[Autumn]

21. No, I find the OP's and posts by the OP illuminating. Not the articles and tweets of other people

that are posted, I don't click on them and I don't care to read twitter posts by people I don't know bout.

[OldRed2450]

22. You just proved the OP's point.

[Cha]

105. ...

[progressoid]

24. Trump style populism? What the Fuck?

Care to elaborate on that accusation?

[Grasswire2]

31. redux all over again. SMH nt

[Thekaspervote]

32. It's pretty clear sanders uses the techniques listed in the OP

Has stated many times that he is treated unfairly by the media and therefore is Critical

This is a direct quote from a campaign rally “I’m going to take on the Democratic establishment

Hired negative people like Sirota and turner

The spin here in the last 48-72 hrs has been about how he’s surging ahead in the polls when there’s no earth trembling movement... 1-2 pts here and there while Biden maintains a double digit lead on him

The OP is spot on

[Cha]

37. Excellent post, Kasper! Some just don't want

to see what's happening.

[progressoid]

46. Tell me, in detail, what's happening.

Tell me how Bernie is using Trump style populism. Is he race baiting? Is he telling white people he want's to build a wall? What is it?

[Thekaspervote]

55. It's pretty clear when he tells his rally crowd that he is "going to take on establishment Dems"

The crowd boos and he does nothing to stop it

You don’t really believe that turning young voters against Dems is a good thing?? Do you?

Also, if you have been looking at DU the past few days, his supporters post repeatedly how he’s surging or winning. Outside of a 1-2 pt shift it’s just not so. Hoping it will shift is different than stating it has

It’s the same tactics used, as the OP mentioned

[progressoid]

60. Those young voters...

like my daughters and nieces, were already looking for something other than "establishment Democrats" (whatever that means). He's not turning them against Dems; they went toward him because they were looking for a new kind of Democrat.

Also, if you have been looking at DU the past few days, his supporters post repeatedly how he’s surging or winning. Outside of a 1-2 pt shift it’s just not so. Hoping it will shift is different than stating it has

You can say the same thing about Mayor Pete or Biden or Warren's supporters too. People want to support their candidate. SHOCKING!11!

[Thekaspervote]

65. I disagree

[progressoid]

68. Based on...???

[Thekaspervote]

73. His actions at his rallies, saying things like he's going to primary President Obama

Pushing against “establishment Dems”

voting no against CHIP

not present to vote for sanctions against the Russians

hiring attack dogs like turner and Sirota

Publicly stating he’s unsure if he will support the 2020 nominee and that the system is rigged against him

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/bernie-sanders-2016-rigged-wont-pledge-support-winner.html

[progressoid]

78. Uhmm... how do any of those things refute what I said.

I mentioned how young people were attracted to his non-establishment style.

And that supporters on DU post things in support of their candidate.

[Thekaspervote]

86. his "non establishment style" is disinformation the entire basis of this OP!!

[progressoid]

111. So "non establishment style" is disinformation.

OK. Maybe after a couple more drinks that'll make sense.

[ehrnst]

152. +1000

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

114. +1,000

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[progressoid]

119. Hey...

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

120. Howdeedoooo!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[progressoid]

38. OK...

They may both say they are taking on the Democratic establishment, but it's for entirely different reasons.

Critical of the media...everyone is critical of the media for a variety of reasons. Hell, 99% of DU is critical of the media. And rightfully so. The media helped Trump get elected.

the only one that has solutions to our problems... Most candidates thinks their solutions are the solutions to our problems. That's part of campaigning. Duh.

[Tiggeroshii]

40. John Kerry complained about being treated unfairly by the media.

Does that mean he was using Trump's playbook? Or could he actually have been treated unfairly?

[OldRed2450]

48. All candidates complain about the media...

rightfully so. The difference is that he and his campaign do it every day, sometimes even several times a day. They also subscribe to this notion that the media is only unfair to him. It tears down trust in a free press. I don't know if you know any Trump supporters but if you do... you will notice they only believe certain outlets and those outlets are on the extreme fringe of the right. We should be cautious of that.

[Cha]

51. Thank you!

[Thekaspervote]

56. Excellent points! Thank you

[progressoid]

63. Trust in a free press? Holy shit. That went away when they sided with the Bush administration and

the run-up to the Iraq war. That's how Air America started.

Most of us long time DUers have been railing about the press for a long time.

[OldRed2450]

67. Being skeptical is good and healthy.

It's more than that here. Some people now only believe Bernie or journalist who have extreme bias and loyalty to him. It's dangerous when that happens.

[progressoid]

70. So the evidence we have that Bernie steals from Trump's playbook is that some people here don't

like the media.

Cool.

[OldRed2450]

72. No..

When people, not just here, start to only believe a certain leader and outlets approved by that leader it gets dangerous. It doesn't have to be a Presidential campaign. It happens in organizations and religious movements as well. Scientology comes to mind.

[Thekaspervote]

75. This!! Disinformation in any form by anyone is damaging

[progressoid]

79. Which news outlets have been approved by Sanders?

[ehrnst]

155. His own....

Link to tweet

[ehrnst]

156. Actually.....

"And then I wonder why The Washington Post, which is owned by Jeff Bezos, who owns Amazon, doesn't write particularly good articles about me. I don't know why," he said at a campaign event in New Hampshire on Tuesday. Bezos is the founder and CEO of Amazon and privately purchased The Post.

The remark sounded an awful lot like the kind of criticism leveled by someone else.

"...[T]he failing New York Times and the Amazon Washington Post do nothing but write bad stories even on very positive achievements - and they will never change!" President Trump tweeted last year.

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/13/750800062/sanders-again-attacks-amazon-this-time-pulling-in-the-washington-post

Who else expects his supporters to distrust all media but his preferred outlets that he controls or that flatter him.

Candidates have long sought outlets to appeal directly to supporters without a media filter, and none more effectively than President Donald Trump. But Sanders’ efforts have taken that approach a step further, and there’s some evidence that people are watching and listening. His campaign says that the streaming show they aired before and after the first Democratic presidential debate had more than 300,000 views.

https://apnews.com/3fe684c2c7e34b0582fa80d11af07d4e

Link to tweet

Who else implies that an established electoral system that he was very familiar with when he signed up to participate in is "rigged" against him by that 'establishment' when it doesn't work to his advantage, or support his narrative?

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37673797

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/bernie-sanders-2016-rigged-wont-pledge-support-winner.html

[progressoid]

161. Actually...

A lot of politicians criticize the media.

“I don’t think the press did their job in this election, with very few exceptions,” she told Vox. “So, the hard questions about what was real and what was realistic and what could happen with the right kind of election outcome were never really joined. And so, I found it frustrating, obviously.”

Clinton singled out the New York Times for “shoddy reporting” on the emails. She felt hurt and confused by the paper endorsing her while “beating me up about emails,” the single issue that had legs that Trump and the media latched onto. "The Times has by no means been the only — or even the worst — offender," she writes, "but its treatment has stung the most."

“Over the years, going all the way back to the Whitewater inquisition, it seems as if many of those in charge of political coverage at the New York Times have viewed me with hostility and skepticism,” Clinton writes.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/09/15/hillary-clinton-i-blew-2016-election-but-so-did-news-media-alicia-shepard-column/667853001/

Obama has, on occasion, acknowledged that he is not exactly an unbiased news media critic. “You will cover every word that we say, and we will complain vociferously about the unflattering words that you write,” Mr. Obama said at an Associated Press luncheon in April. “Unless, of course, you’re writing about the other guy — in which case, good job.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/08/us/politics/obama-is-an-avid-reader-and-critic-of-news-media-coverage.html?_r=1&ref=politics

[ehrnst]

164. Whataboutery....

The technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counteraccusation or raising a different issue.

https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/whataboutery

Often used when one has no real rebuttal.

[progressoid]

165. Yeah, you've tried that retort before.

Not interested in another unproductive discussion about whataboutism again.

[ehrnst]

167. Because you've resorted to that before.

You find it "unproductive" because I'm spot on about calling you out on it.

[progressoid]

168. Sure.

[ehrnst]

169. Sure. That's one way to respond when one has no real response.

Especially when one "isn't interested" in an "unproductive discussion."

[Paka]

76. Thank You for keeping things real.

If you don't think Bernie Sanders is treated unfairly you're not paying attention. And on the rare occasions the msm reports Bernie rising in the polls, they immediately stress that its an outlier, whether that's true or not.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

115. ZIIIIIIINNNG!!!

Last edited Fri Dec 27, 2019, 10:58 PM - Edit history (1)

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[ehrnst]

170. You mean did anyone compare him to Trump?

[Cha]

49. Your post is Spot ON!

[OldRed2450]

52. The article I posted explains.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

123. Apparently comparing Bernie to tRump is justified in furthering the cause of divisiveness.

Last edited Mon Dec 30, 2019, 11:01 AM - Edit history (1)

But, don't let anyone DARE compare Joe to tRump on any subject, on any level.. you will pay dearly. With Bernie... it's fair game, have at it, regardless of the truth.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[TomCADem]

130. Bernie Sanders Says His Complaints About Media Coverage Are Different Than Trump's

Bernie himself has acknowledged the similarities between himself and Trump on media coverage. The reason why Bernie is divisive is because of his own words and actions.

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/campaign-wire-election-2020/card/1565818964

BURLINGTON, Vt. — Bernie Sanders acknowledged his recent complaints about media coverage may bear some resemblance to President Trump’s attacks -- but said that his message is different.

Asked about comparisons between his comments and Mr. Trump's language, Mr. Sanders responded that "maybe" there were similarities in phrasing. But he said a big difference is that the president calls the media the enemy of the people. Mr. Sanders said Mr. Trump "says that the media produces fake news; I don’t believe that for a second. It’s disgusting, it undermines American democracy.”

Mr. Sanders made his new comments in an interview with The Wall Street Journal on Wednesday.

Mr. Sanders said his problem with media coverage was that a small number of corporations owned the major news outlets, and that resulted in reporters missing stories he believes should be covered.

[ehrnst]

153. Sometimes the truth hurts. (nt)

[TomCADem]

127. New Yorker - Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump Ride the Populist Wave

There are numerous articles commenting on the "populist" appeal of Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump, as well as their similarities. Heck, if you'd like, I will be happy to post articles where Bernie himself acknowledges the similarities on issues such as trade or media bias where Bernie is vague about the difference between himself and Trump.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/bernie-sanders-and-donald-trump-ride-the-populist-wave

On the basis of recent opinion polls, which showed Sanders and Trump well ahead, these results weren’t entirely unexpected. But it is worth stepping back a bit. Nine months ago, when Sanders launched his campaign in New Hampshire, most political observers dismissed him as a fringe candidate. In June, when Trump entered the Republican race, most analysts, myself included, didn’t think he would go the distance. The pundits now stand embarrassed. The two New Yorkers—Sanders is from Brooklyn; Trump is from Queens—have campaigned as insurgents, each with a clear message. They rode to last night’s victories on a populist wave, the limits of which will determine the outcome of the primaries, and, quite possibly, the general election.

Unlike in the Iowa caucuses last week, there wasn’t much suspense about the outcomes. As soon as the last polls closed, at 8 p.m. Eastern, the Associated Press and the television networks called the races for Sanders and Trump, based on their exit polls. As the vote tallies came in, they broadly confirmed those poll numbers. The only close race was for third place on the G.O.P. side. In the early hours of Wednesday morning, with about ninety per cent of the vote counted, Ted Cruz was in third place, with 11.5 per cent of the vote, Jeb Bush was fourth, at 11.1 per cent, and Marco Rubio was in fifth, at 10.5 per cent.

At about nine p.m., CNN showed footage of Sanders shooting hoops in the gym at Concord High School, where his supporters had gathered to celebrate his victory. Half an hour later, after Clinton had delivered a feisty concession speech, Sanders took the stage, thanked the state, and delivered his standard stump address about how the economy and the political system are rigged to benefit wealthy campaign donors. Briefly, he also reflected on his victory, pointing out that it was based on a huge turnout—“and I say huge,” he repeated. We won, Sanders went on, “because we harnessed the energy and the excitement that the Democratic Party will need to succeed in November. . . . That will happen all over the country.”

As the campaign moves south and west, Sanders will face the challenge of making sure that it does happen. But, whatever takes place going forward, the breadth of his victory in New Hampshire was impressive. According to the network exit poll, he won the male vote by sixty-five per cent to thirty-four per cent, and the female vote by fifty-three per cent to forty-six per cent. Among women under the age of thirty, despite (or perhaps partly because of) the best efforts of Madeleine Albright and Gloria Steinem, he got eighty-two per cent of the vote.

[progressoid]

133. If Trump and Sanders Are Both Populists, What Does Populist Mean?

The headlines tell us that the political campaigns of Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders have opened a new chapter of populist politics. A reporter at the Los Angeles Times writes on "the populist sentiment fueling both the Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump campaigns." A pundit at the National Review asks if Sanders and Trump are "two populist peas in a pod?" and answers in the affirmative. His counterpart at the New Yorker analyzes the Sanders and Trump campaigns under the simple heading "The Populists." (1) These headlines defy ordinary political sense given just how different these two candidates are from each other. Bernie Sanders is one of the longest serving and consistently progressive politicians in the U.S. Congress, and Donald Trump is a reality TV show host and conservative real estate tycoon whose temperamental political compass points towards animosity against immigrants and women. Whether it is policy, style, or temperament, these two candidates make for strange peas in a pod.

Pairing Sanders and Trump indicates just how flexible the term populist has become and poses the question as to whether populist has any useful meaning and if so, what it might be. A good starting point to answer this question would be to trace back to the historical origins of the term. In the early 1890s the People's party—whose members were known by the quirky nickname Populists, or just Pops—represented a powerful movement against corporate power that demanded solutions to the Gilded Age crisis of inequality. By the measure of this historical legacy, Bernie Sanders looks very much like a populist for the "Second Gilded Age," both in his diagnosis of and solutions to society's ills. By the same historical measure, Donald Trump, with his gold-plated jets and mansions, looks very much like the type of plutocrat the Populists held responsible for the injustices and inequities of their time. This suggests that to understand today's headlines about a populist Trump we need a different historical measure and to examine how some contemporary political commentators have separated the term populist from its origins.

...https://www.oah.org/tah/issues/2016/february/if-trump-and-sanders-are-both-populists-what-does-populist-mean/

[TomCADem]

136. Are Bernie Sanders' attacks on the media fair - or Trumpian?

Here is another article noting the obvious similarities in rhetoric between Bernie and Trump with respect to attacks on the media:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/27/bernie-sanders-attacks-media-press-fair-or-trump-2020-democrats

The newsletter landed in supporters’ email inboxes with an ominous subject line: “What We Cannot Discuss.” In it, the author lambasted “the Washington pundits who are paid by the corporations and billionaires who own the media”.

“[C]orporate and billionaire-owned media often tilts coverage against candidates … who push a working-class agenda – an agenda that threatens the political power of corporations and billionaires,” he continued, arguing that such biases have harmed his boss’ presidential campaign.

The author’s boss is, perhaps surprisingly, Democrat candidate Bernie Sanders, and not the notoriously anti-media Donald Trump

In fact, the Vermont senator’s campaign has repeatedly questioned the alleged biases of the mainstream media in recent days, leading some to compare Sanders to the president he hopes to defeat.

[ehrnst]

171. Actually...it's about his responses, not the definition of populism.

Goalposts moved...

Maybe you missed this:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=399094

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

135. Just when you thought the Bernie bashing couldn't get any lower!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[TomCADem]

137. The Post Was That A Lot of Bernie Posts Are Complaints About Bashing

Doesn't your post prove that point?

I said that a lot Bernie support consists of posts citing to a poll that shows Bernie leading or gaining momentum. I think you yourself frequently cite to Bernie's favorability ratings. Am I wrong?

Also, I said that a lot of posts relating to complaints about no coverage (Bernie Blackout) or unfair coverage (Bernie Bashing), as your post does. Again, Trump's campaign also does this:

I posted elsewhere a video of Nina Turner complaining about media bias.

Finally, I noted that Bernie frequently complains about the "Democratic Establishment". I already gave a couple of examples, yet when I point this out, I get accused of being divisive.

That is the great irony. Bernie repeatedly attacks Democrats, but when you call him out on it, you are the one who is being divisive.

[ehrnst]

151. In the OP: Attacks journalists and free press that publish pieces on him that don't flatter him.

Last edited Mon Dec 30, 2019, 10:17 AM - Edit history (1)

"And then I wonder why The Washington Post, which is owned by Jeff Bezos, who owns Amazon, doesn't write particularly good articles about me. I don't know why," he said at a campaign event in New Hampshire on Tuesday. Bezos is the founder and CEO of Amazon and privately purchased The Post.

The remark sounded an awful lot like the kind of criticism leveled by someone else.

"...[T]he failing New York Times and the Amazon Washington Post do nothing but write bad stories even on very positive achievements - and they will never change!" President Trump tweeted last year.

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/13/750800062/sanders-again-attacks-amazon-this-time-pulling-in-the-washington-post

Who else expects his supporters to distrust all media but his preferred outlets that he controls or that flatter him.

Candidates have long sought outlets to appeal directly to supporters without a media filter, and none more effectively than President Donald Trump. But Sanders’ efforts have taken that approach a step further, and there’s some evidence that people are watching and listening. His campaign says that the streaming show they aired before and after the first Democratic presidential debate had more than 300,000 views.

https://apnews.com/3fe684c2c7e34b0582fa80d11af07d4e

Link to tweet

https://www.newsweek.com/after-trump-calls-hannity-amazing-warrior-fox-host-calls-impeachment-witnesses-nerdy-guys-that-1471677

Who else implies that an established electoral system that he was very familiar with when he signed up to participate in is "rigged" by the "establishment" when it doesn't work to his advantage, or support his narrative.

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37673797

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/bernie-sanders-2016-rigged-wont-pledge-support-winner.html

[PhoenixDem]

27. K&R n/t

[Squinch]

30. Yep. It's obvious, trumpy, and disgusting.

[Time2Breathe70]

34. Desperation

[thewhollytoast]

35. Trump is the new Godwin eom

[betsuni]

39. K&R

[lapucelle]

41. Just last week, someone here was breathlessly touting a twitter video

in which a candidate misstates his own record. The claims that the candidate made were deemed "false" by fact checkers.

Over 300,000 viewers heard the candidate make those demonstratively false claims. The candidate neither corrected, retracted, nor apologized.

The candidate was not Trump.

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=385204

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/1287392588

[George II]

44. Bazinga!

[sheshe2]

61. So dayum good to have you back posting, lapucelle.

[Thekaspervote]

62. This!! We should all be pushing against disinformation. It's very divisive.

I can’t believe anyone would argue against that

[ehrnst]

158. Yep...

[Tiggeroshii]

42. Another day, another Bernie bashing thread.

Now it looks like people are comparing him to Trump. Good grief, Charlie Brown!

[Thekaspervote]

77. How is discussing his actions bashing?

[Tiggeroshii]

103. You mean factually inaccurate characterizations in n order to smear him?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

117. Yes, but it's Bernie... so, apparently, it's justified.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[Tiggeroshii]

121. You bet!!!

[TomCADem]

141. "Trump blasts NYT tax story as 'hit piece'"

Does the Bernie campaign have any self-awareness about just how much their standard responses sound like the Trump campaign?

Bernie bashing! Smear! Hit Piece! The whole point is that rather than respond to the substance, which I have backed with numerous links to Bernie's statements and tweets from his campaign, we get the standard outraged responses of "bashing," "bias," and "hit piece."

Again, does that talking point sound familiar?

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/409623-trump-blasts-nyt-tax-story-a-hit-piece

President Trump on Wednesday accused The New York Times of writing a "hit piece" against him for publishing a bombshell report about "dubious" tax practices he used in the 1990s.

In a tweet, Trump called the story an "old, boring and often told hit piece on me" but stopped short of denying its claims.

"The Failing New York Times did something I have never seen done before. They used the concept of 'time value of money' in doing a very old, boring and often told hit piece on me," the president wrote.

Trump suggested the Times holds a grudge against him because the paper failed to predict his victory in the 2016 presidential election.

[Tiggeroshii]

147. I was responding to the OP

This is different

[comradebillyboy]

100. "Good grief Charlie Brown", my dear departed mother

used that phrase a lot...

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

116. It's an understandable reaction... fear of Bernie and tells you he's winning hearts and minds...

A CAUSE FOR CELEBRATION!!!!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[TomCADem]

134. Your Post Proves My Point. A Lot of Complaints About Bias and Bashing

If it is not about a "Bernie Blackout," it is about Bernie bashing and bias. Just to show that I am not making it up, here is Bernie's co-chair talking about a Bernie Blackout in that he is not getting coverage:

Conversely, when he gets coverage, if it is not fawning over his policies, then it is because of corporate bias. Anything short of a puff piece is dismissed as bias.

The fact of the matter is that Bernie has not received near the scrutiny of Joe Biden or other candidates even though he is a front runner.

[Tiggeroshii]

138. Sorry but comparing Bernie to trump off of speculation and false information

Is absolutely "bashing,"

[TomCADem]

140. Politifact - Mostly True - Donald Trump says he and Bernie Sanders are 'very similar' on trade

If it is false, then it should be easy to disprove, right? For example, lets try trade. Here is Politifact finding that Trump and Bernie's trade policies are "very similar" to be "mostly true." I can post subsequent statements by Bernie where he simultaneously agrees on elements such as NAFTA, tariffs, and steel tariffs, while struggling to explain the differences, except to say that he would be "rational."

https://www.politifact.com/north-carolina/statements/2016/jul/27/donald-trump/donald-trump-says-he-and-bernie-sanders-are-very-s/

The same day the Democratic National Convention opened and Bernie Sanders supporters booed Hillary Clinton in large numbers, Donald Trump sought in North Carolina to win over some of those unhappy Democrats.

When it comes to trade policies, Trump is feeling the Bern.

"We have one issue that’s very similar, and that’s trade," Trump told The News & Observer before a campaign rally in Winston-Salem on Monday. "He and I are similar in trade."

Trump has been trying this tactic out since it became clear he and Clinton would be squaring off in the general election. Last month, Trump even quoted Sanders in attacking Clinton.

[Still In Wisconsin]

43. I agree. I fell for his song and dance in 2016.

Fool me once...

[Tiggeroshii]

45. What changed?

[LakeArenal]

81. What changed is other Democratic candidates carry his old message better than he.

In a more inclusive and less caustic manner.

That we ex-supporters thought he was now a Democrat. But nope. He’s just a “ what can the party do for me” candidate. So now he’s a Democrat. Again.. Until he isn’t.

[Tiggeroshii]

83. So he didn't change

You did?

[Thekaspervote]

88. Happy that voters have moved away from sanders! As the numbers all indicate

[Tiggeroshii]

90. Not at all

Numbers indicate hes crushing his opponents in volunteers, individual contributions and enthisiasm.

[Thekaspervote]

92. His poll numbers do not indicate any earth trembling movement

He has no clear path to the nomination

[LakeArenal]

128. Maybe. But I think he's changed.

Almost mean spirited.

Besides everything and everyone changes. That’s life.

[Thekaspervote]

82. Fool me once shame on you...fool me twice shame on me!!

[Tiggeroshii]

85. He fooled nobody.

The future generations are the ones bearing the brunt of our decisions now. Bernie is the only one that gets that.

[Thekaspervote]

93. Your post proves out one of the OP's point. He thinks he's the only one!!

[Tiggeroshii]

95. He is.

We cant wait with climate change. 0 emissions by 2050 means we die. Yes only Bernie gets that.

[Thekaspervote]

98. He isn't the ONLY one that gets that! He just says he is

[Tiggeroshii]

101. Hes the only one that makes his campaign center around it

And has fully embraced the only proposed piece of legislation that addresses it with no strings attached.

[LanternWaste]

162. He's certainly the Chosen One.

[Still In Wisconsin]

145. Exactly. n/t

[aikoaiko]

57. Most Bernie posts are about his policies.

I don't know what you're seeing.

[TomCADem]

182. Really. Have you seen this board lately?

nt

[grantcart]

58. Another unfortunate similarity is that neither has ever admitted any mistakes

All of Sanders votes with the NRA for the PLCAA ending legal challenges to gun manufacturers was "Perfect"

Sanders advocating to primary Pres Obama. "Perfect".

Sanders has virtually never admitted any vote was wrong but he has had to admit and apologize frequently to charges of sexism within his organization simply because there have been so many charges.

[progressoid]

71. That would be incorrect.

As he climbs in the polls in Iowa and around the country, Bernie Sanders still can’t seem to avoid criticism on one issue that stands out in his otherwise progressive agenda: his vote for legislation that gives the gun industry legal immunity. On Thursday, the Democratic presidential candidate and Vermont senator announced that he would help to repeal that bill.

Sanders said that he will co-sponsor legislation to repeal the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA), a law passed by Congress in 2005 that shields gun manufacturers from liability in lawsuits over gun violence. Dan Gross, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, praised Sanders’ decision, calling it a clear victory for gun control advocates which would have been “unthinkable a month ago.”

https://thinkprogress.org/bernie-sanders-pledges-to-repeal-pro-gun-law-he-helped-pass-957f99d381fd/

[grantcart]

96. Hilarious, really hilarious

After years of blistering criticism for helping the NRA pass the legislation ( as your article points out) Sanders will no longer continue that position but will sponsor its repeal.

My post never stated that he doesn't reverse his position but that he never admits (vote on Afghanistan war being the only exception I ever found).

You prove my point and that is EVEN WHEN HE REVERSES HIS POSITION AS YOU SHOW he still never admits that he made a mistake. Even as Gross called the legislation "evil" Sanders continued to state that parts "make sense" and continue with the fiction that he was looking out for a small gun retailer in Northern Vermont ( who would never have been targeted by lawsuits if he wasn't breaking the law.)

Now to the point I was making please don't show me where he flip flopped but show me where he said

"my previous position was wrong, I made a mistake"

I can show you many examples where normal tempered politicians like Obama, HC, Biden have made such statements.

Sanders intemperate and ego driven personality won't allow him to be a real member of the Democratic Party, he is much better than that and as your article proves exquisitely even when he does a 180 degree turn around he doesn't admit any error of judgement and still tries to justify working with the NRA by pointing out that the legislation had some very good parts to it.

All of his votes, even when he reverses them are always "Perfect".

[progressoid]

118. You put Perfect in quotes.

Does that mean that he actually said his votes are perfect. Or are you saying you think he thinks his votes are perfect. Or, worse yet, are you implying a connection to Trump's use of the word?


Since I'm not as obsessed with his career as many are here, I can't speak for everything he's said or done. But with a simple Google search I found this in a couple minutes.

Bernie Sanders admits 2016 presidential campaign was ‘too white’

Bernie Sanders Apologizes to Hillary Clinton Over Accessing Voter Data

Regardless, even if he self-flagellated on the Senate floor for his multitudinous mistakes, he's likely never going to satisfy a lot of people here.

YMMV

[Kurt V.]

64. we do need to inform. but outlets like cnn keep having on ppl who lie (a lot)

[Joe941]

69. So the reason not to support BS now is because he is the tRump of the left?

Nice try. This was an original one but the desperation just goes to show how well Bernie is doing.

[Thekaspervote]

80. Bernie really is not doing that well... the numbers prove that

Sanders got 40% of Democratic Primary vote in '16, he's running half that this time. Even if he got 100% of Warren's support, he'd still be behind his '16 vote total Thehill.com

[Joe941]

132. Biden is running behind what Bernie was in 2016. What is the point?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

125. Ain't that the truth Joe!! This takes desperation to new heights!!

Apparently, fear of Bernie winning is quite the motivator!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[Amimnoch]

84. I so look forward to your OP's and posts. They are so illuminating.

So spot on.

I wonder if Russia is trying to help him along again this time as well with their propaganda machine? That is another thing they both shared.

[RazBerryBeret]

87. Inflamatory and divisive post, IMO

isn't this bashing a democratic public figure? I thought this was frowned on. Are there different rules for different candidates?

[Thekaspervote]

91. How is discussing his actions bashing?

[RazBerryBeret]

94. comparing any democratic

candidate to Trump should be considered bashing.
would you consider it bashing if someone compared Biden's fundraising to Trump's fundraising methods?

[Thekaspervote]

97. again, any disinformation should be called out for what it is

[The Valley Below]

106. You just did what you criticized as "bashing."

[RazBerryBeret]

108. ummmm. yes, exactly

that was the point.

comparing a democratic candidate to Trump or Bush is bashing.
thank you for agreeing.

[The Valley Below]

109. I didn't say I agreed with you.

By your standards you deliberately bashed a Democratic candidate.

[RazBerryBeret]

112. ok

read my post again, I'm sorry it confuses you.

[The Valley Below]

113. I'm not confused. Stop trying to ascribe falsehoods to me.

[OldRed2450]

110. It's more of a duty to warn.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

124. It's called the "Anti-Bernie Double Standard"... didn't you get the memo?!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[TomCADem]

131. Here Is Bernie Himself Once Again Attacking the "Democratic Establishment"

The question is how can people who purport to support Bernie deny his own statements and positions. I will post that Bernie has been pro-gun, and all I get, is "LIES. YOU ARE BASHING BERNIE!" Then, you start listing his votes against the Brady Bill and his vote for immunity for gun makers," and then you get either no response, or trolling posts saying, "YOU JUST HATE THAT BERNIE IS WINNING!"

Take a look above, notice some of the pro-Bernie responses, that do not really address the facts, but just complain about bias and bashing, which is what I am noting that a lot of pro-Bernie posts do.

Link to tweet

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1208605833782800384&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.democraticunderground.com%2F%3Fcom%3Dview_post%26forum%3D1287%26pid%3D390375

[Gothmog]

107. I am not surprised by this

[Hassin Bin Sober]

143. .

[Tarheel_Dem]

144. It's been done to death, and it does engender reminiscences of the most negative aspects of the...

Orange One.

[DallasNE]

146. No One Under 70 Is Above 6%

To me that indicates a weak field of candidates. And the one at 6% is a small city Mayor. Is Klobachar really our best bet? No wonder I am still undecided.

[R B Garr]

148. Exactly! Everything you said is exactly correct.

It was obvious why Trump also copied Bernie’s attacks on Democrats. What does that say when the biggest con man around mimics you?? The answer is so obvious.........

[mahina]

149. Bernie isn't stealing anything.

[maximusveritas]

175. You're right. Bernie has had this playbook for decades. Trump is the one who stole it.

[Farmer-Rick]

154. Wow, and you think this is a discussion?

Bernie is no more using Traitor Trump's play book then Joe Biden or any other Democratic candidate is.

[ehrnst]

157. Actually...

"And then I wonder why The Washington Post, which is owned by Jeff Bezos, who owns Amazon, doesn't write particularly good articles about me. I don't know why," he said at a campaign event in New Hampshire on Tuesday. Bezos is the founder and CEO of Amazon and privately purchased The Post.

The remark sounded an awful lot like the kind of criticism leveled by someone else.

"...[T]he failing New York Times and the Amazon Washington Post do nothing but write bad stories even on very positive achievements - and they will never change!" President Trump tweeted last year.

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/13/750800062/sanders-again-attacks-amazon-this-time-pulling-in-the-washington-post

Expects his supporters to distrust all media but his preferred outlets that he controls or that flatter him.

Candidates have long sought outlets to appeal directly to supporters without a media filter, and none more effectively than President Donald Trump. But Sanders’ efforts have taken that approach a step further, and there’s some evidence that people are watching and listening. His campaign says that the streaming show they aired before and after the first Democratic presidential debate had more than 300,000 views.

https://apnews.com/3fe684c2c7e34b0582fa80d11af07d4e

Link to tweet

Implies that an established electoral system that he was very familiar with when he signed up to participate in is "rigged" when it doesn't work to his advantage, or support his narrative.

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37673797

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/bernie-sanders-2016-rigged-wont-pledge-support-winner.html

[Joe941]

163. So you are trying to bash Bernie and his supporters... why?

Drive them away so they won't support a democratic candidate if Bernie isn't the eventual winner. Then you can blame them for a loss to tRump? Great idea! I really don't understand all the Bernie bashing. It could be disastrous.

[NYMinute]

166. Yep yep yep

I have said this all along

Also the gaslighting

[Cha]

173. So well put, TomCADem!

2020!

[JoeOtterbein]

176. So bashing Bernie is ok and dandy?

Have you considered that we will need to show solid support for Bernie in November?

Or that it may come down to Bernie and Bloomberg, before we even get to November?

Jeeze.

Like I've been saying, I'm worried.

[TomCADem]

181. If Bernie Is The Frontrunner, He Should Be Honored

Trump got impeached because he was holding up hundreds of millions of dollars to get talking points to harm Joe Biden. Bernie has gotten off pretty easy by comparison.

[Gothmog]

178. For this thread

Link to tweet

[betsuni]

179. So true.

[Gothmog]

180. I am very upset at this stunt tomight

Link to tweet