Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumWhy Pete Buttigieg Enrages the Young Left
PoliticoThe Los Angeles Times Matt Pearce compiled a list of potential explanations on Twitter, including that the left may perceive him as a traitor to his generation, a stark opportunist, or the representative of a shadowy and discredited D.C. professional class. The Atlantics Derek Thompson also surveyed the theories, ultimately concluding that the continuity with the Obama era that Buttigieg promises might be too much for progressives to stomach. The answer, of course, is likely all of the above.
But those explanations are still too general to explain the fury inspired by a fourth-place presidential contender and Midwestern college-town mayor. And its not his ideology: The resentment he inspires runs much deeper than that earned by the Amy Klobuchars and Michael Bennets of the worldboth of whom have more politically moderate tendencies than Buttigieg, who has, among other positions, argued for raising the minimum wage to $15, introducing a public health care option, expanding the size of the Supreme Court and abolishing the Electoral College. (Asked for comment for this article, a representative from the Buttigieg campaign told Politico that staffers are occasionally vexed by the cold reception to a platform thats well to the left of any recent Democratic presidential nominee.)
The unspoken truth about the furor Buttigieg arouses is that his success threatens a core belief of young progressives: that their ideology owns the future, and that the rise of millennials into Democratic politics is going to bring an inevitable demographic triumph for the partys far left wing.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
W_HAMILTON
(7,869 posts)If any other candidate were in his place (leading in certain polls in Iowa), the online left would find reasons to hate them as well and try to smear them to hurt their chances in order to better Sanders's chances. That's all there is to it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Bradshaw3
(7,522 posts)Based on projection. But it's good you finally changed your prefence to the candidate you've backed all along.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
W_HAMILTON
(7,869 posts)And I haven't backed Biden all along or else I would have had him as my choice all along. I think I've had Buttigieg, Beto, and Warren all as my choice at any particular time, and I've donated to all of those candidates and even more to show my support for them at various times.
You apparently have that false notion that most Democrats are the enemy -- they're not. Outside of a few disruptor candidates that spend most of their time attacking Democrats, I would be fine with most any of our candidates. To those of us that realize that the vast majority of Democrats agree on the vast majority of the issues, this isn't a surprise.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
muriel_volestrangler
(101,326 posts)Look at how you've just attacked them in your posts. I can't, however, see an attack on "most Democrats" in the post you replied to.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
W_HAMILTON
(7,869 posts)Those Jill Stein-supporting types that trash Democrats and the Democratic Party more than they do Trump and his Republicans and only use our party to further their agenda are not our -- meaning Democrats -- allies.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
muriel_volestrangler
(101,326 posts)Is "left" so bad to you, that it's - what? The most extreme 5%? Less? If you think a typical characteristic is "Stein-supporting", then maybe 1%.
Maybe someone has persuaded you think think that "left" is wrong. I'd suggest that it'd make sense to think of "the left" as a third of the country.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
W_HAMILTON
(7,869 posts)And it's also the exact people that were being referred to in the article that initiated this thread.
And the small percentage of Stein-supporting disruptor types don't get to claim the mantle of being "the left" -- they're not. They are a small group of fringe extremists that think their loud online voices speak for the rest of us -- they do not.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
muriel_volestrangler
(101,326 posts)"the online left" (everyone's online these days, and their use of technology seems irrelevant, so that's the whole left). Then "militant online left" (so you've added 'militant'. So it's people who are active and vocal. Do you think that calling people "disruptors", "fringe extremists", or falsely accusing a DUer of thinking "most Democrats are the enemy" might get you called "militant"? I do).
Then you realise that maybe this blanket condemnation of the left may not look good, so you claim that being a member of the left really means supporting Stein. But that's far from what you said before. One of the "exact" people was a fellow DUer, who supports Warren.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)You made that claim up out of fucking thin air. In my world, anyone that couldn't see the clear difference between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump in 2016 isn't worth spending a fucking second on and should be treated as hostile to all I believe in, I really don't give a shit about what they call themselves or what they declare they believe in, they enabled a fucking monster and that is all that I give a shit about.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
muriel_volestrangler
(101,326 posts)In #17, I said they seemed to see the left as an enemy, and they replied "I do think they are an enemy. Those Jill Stein-supporting types".
So, no, that's not out of thin air; it's what they said.
I think it's damaging to define "the left" as "Stein supporters". It changes the term "left" into something meaning a tiny minority of people with weird views; and if people on DU can state "I think the left are an enemy", it'll encourage the right wing to say anyone on the left is "an enemy" of the USA, and they'll include all Democrats in that (because, they'll say, the Democrats are known by many people as "on the left" - and in that detail, they'd be right).
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)people that voted for them in 2000 and 2016.
The poster was very specific, the enemy are the people that were idiotic enough to vote for Nader in 2000 and Stein in 2016, that is NOT the left. A true left-leaning democrat knew how foolish such a vote was and voted for the Democratic Party nominee.
Again, you obstructed your charge against the poster out of thin air. Maybe the issue is that ANYONE who would remotely consider voting third party in a pivotal election like 2000 and 2016 is NOT a person of the left, but instead is a fucking anarchist.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
muriel_volestrangler
(101,326 posts)They said that directly. They then said that meant, to them, people who voted for Stein. I have not made this up "from thin air"; it's in this thread. If you think that the left is Democrats, and not Stein voters, then your position seems to be far closer to mine than to W_Hamilton's. Maybe you should take it up with them.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)have issues with them, but this case is an exception.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LAS14
(13,783 posts)The unspoken truth about the furor Buttigieg arouses is that his success threatens a core belief of young progressives: that their ideology owns the future, and that the rise of millennials into Democratic politics is going to bring an inevitable demographic triumph for the partys far left wing.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)66. Democratic Party Ideology
Is the Democratic Party...
Not Liberal Enough:
Total: 13%
Male: 12%
Female: 14%
18-29: 18%
30-44: 16%
45-64: 10%
65+: 9%
White: 13%
Black: 9%
Hispanic: 16%
Other: 10%
Dem: 20%
Ind: 12%
Rep: 4%
<$50k: 13%
$50-100k: 13%
$100k+: 14%
Northeast: 12%
Midwest: 14%
South: 12%
West: 15%
Voters: 13%
Dem Pri: 23%
Clinton: 13%
Trump: 2%
Liberal: 30%
Moderate: 8%
Conserv: 6%
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/2r6hyqtv9p/econTabReport.pdf
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,771 posts)Nailed it. Maybe it would help with that crowd if he got a man-bun and a soul patch.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LuvNewcastle
(16,847 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
greatauntoftriplets
(175,745 posts)Last edited Thu Jan 2, 2020, 09:49 AM - Edit history (1)
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
not_the_one
(2,227 posts)Up THE People could mean something else entirely...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
greatauntoftriplets
(175,745 posts)I'll fix it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)...."and not just because hes challenging Bernie." (highlighting mine)
In other words, it IS because he's challenging Bernie.
Unfortunately Politico is becoming a media outlet of the Sanders Campaign.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
brooklynite
(94,633 posts)Can we try to keep our conspiracies straight?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
comradebillyboy
(10,157 posts)didn't share my worldview since it was so obviously correct.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,771 posts)to discover that there were people who had the temerity to disagree with my totally correct world view. As you get older you start discovering the concept of nuance, not to mention the possibility that you and your cohort might sometimes even be wrong about some things, but that takes awhile.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,648 posts)It raises some points that I had wondered about and helped me understand why Pete comes in for the type of criticism that he does.
Very clarifying!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Pete is bombing with young people in general and young AAs in particular.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
frazzled
(18,402 posts)On the one hand, it's the adolescent animus toward the "smart kid"; you know, the one who excels in academics and gets all the awards and is so goody-goody, does everything adults admire. (Obama, who was equally smart and accomplished, had the good idea to openly declare what a screw-up he had been in his youth. That gave him some cred with young voters, who like to see their own screw-ups mirrored.)
On the other, it's the mature population that thinks, "I wish my son were like that. The perfect kid you wouldn't have to worry about." And feeling the weariness beginning to set in in their own bones, they're looking for someone from a new generation with energy and fresh ideas, but one who isn't shooting for a moon they know doesn't exist.
It's the bizarre phenomenon of the young (having not lived through earlier decades) thinking Grandpa Bernie is some kind of visionary while the "mature" (I don't want to say old) are thinking Young Pete has all the right stuff. Never seen this before. Perhaps it's a function of our older generation having been the revolutionary ideologues themselves not so long ago, and having grown out of its zealotry (now seeing Mao and Daniel Ortega, who they once idolized, for the autocrats they really were). The young generation of ideologues will have a similar experience in another decade or two, most likely.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ritapria
(1,812 posts)Now he supports the public option - as the healthcare campaign funding arrives That's old school politics ...The young people are more idealistic than their older counterparts .
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Locrian
(4,522 posts)The real time evolution (devolution?) from progressive to mainstream centrist candidate.
Meaningless phrases like "medcare for all who want it" (fire protection for those who want it?!)
etc
And they find it another nauseating example of saying anything to get elected vs having any real conviction and consistency.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dsc
(52,164 posts)He made quite clear in that interview he meant a public option which Medicare for All encompassed at the time. It is people on the pro public takeover side who changed what words meant.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Martin Eden
(12,872 posts)Save it for Trump and the Republicans, not our candidates.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
betsuni
(25,560 posts)the old man is thrown to the ground.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Recursion
(56,582 posts)I realize it's rhetorically powerful, but this kind of crap is beyond stupid. Way too many people have confused universal health care, the goal, with one particular financing model for it that Sanders happens to like, a means to that end.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dsc
(52,164 posts)He has the exact same position as Biden, Klobochar, Bennet, Bloomburg, and Booker yet none of them get accused of this on Twitter. Only this candidate, the one who happens to be openly gay, gets this on Twitter. I am sure it is a coincidence.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)This below rings very true because we see it every day on these forums:
Buttigieg's "success threatens a core belief ... that their ideology owns the future, and that the rise of millennials into Democratic politics is going to bring an inevitable demographic triumph for the partys far left wing."
Of course. Those prone to extremism are doomed to always be enraged by control of LW politics by the much larger large liberal mainstream. Extremism always requires profound dishonesty to support its views, detaching from reality. And that almost always includes seeing theirs as the true will of the people. Thus, in 2016 Sanders was the true choice of the majority and could only have lost because of massive election theft by the evil Democratic establishment.
And of course these eternal betrayals don't just justify but require extreme reprisals and whatever their noble crusade must do to win.
I didn't know why poor Mayor Buttigieg was drawing so much uber-passionate, and typically nasty, enmity. But if his very existence contradicted their most cherished, most needed belief? Of course. Inevitable.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden