Fears of Bernie Sanders winning growing among Democratic Establishment

[booley]

Indeed, on the ground in Iowa, there are signs that Sanders is in a strong position as caucus day approaches.

Josh Kennedy, a 36-year-old Sanders supporter from West Branch, Iowa, said he had previously been curious about Warren but hadn’t been impressed by her on the campaign trail. He’s back on board with Sanders.

“You know exactly what you get with him,” Kennedy said.

Sanders drew consistently large crowds as he crisscrossed the state over the New Year holiday. His campaign said he spoke to nearly 6,000 supporters across 16 events, with more than 1,300 people gathered for a Des Moines party on New Year’s Eve.

The supporters turned out in rural areas as well.

Tracy Freese, chair of the Grundy County Democratic Party and a Sanders supporter, said she counted around 250 people at the Grundy Center Community Hall for Sanders last weekend, a number she called “incredible.”

“To put that many people in a room, in a small red county, for Bernie was crazy on a Saturday,” she said.

https://apnews.com/7b5a54663fef97c7be2b6cfdc814158b?fbclid=IwAR0Xi1HYfEbBusXyib-tBqjK19OJrU1VG5kP5VGb02LmvfZ2zzkdM8nnFug

Bit of a disclaimer

Polls have Sanders among those Dems likely to win against Trump, right up there with Biden. Obviously nothing is guaranteed. But Sanders's electability is just as strong other Dems, stronger than some in fact. So take arguments against it with a bit of salt.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-6250.html

[Hassin Bin Sober]

1. Must be the reason behind all the unhinged attacks.

Desperation

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

3. DESPERATION... EXACTLY!! THEY FEAR THE BERN... AND FOR GOOD REASON!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[Gothmog]

121. Endangered Democrats sound the alarm on Bernie and Warren

Having sanders or Warren at the top of the ticket would kill down ballot candidate

Link to tweet

A slate of endangered House Democrats is coalescing behind Joe Biden for president as the Iowa caucuses approach — a surge of support triggered by fears that Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren at the top of the ticket would cost them their seats.

More than a dozen swing-seat freshmen have taken part in at least one private call session with Biden, Amy Klobuchar or Pete Buttigieg in recent weeks. A handful have already gravitated toward the former vice president, and more are expected to follow before Democrats start voting on Feb. 3, according to interviews with 15 lawmakers, aides and campaign strategists.

Others are still hearing out Klobuchar — who held her own call with a dozen members on Monday night — and Buttigieg. Both candidates are pitching themselves as middle-of-the-road Democrats who can stem the leftward surge of the party.

“I’m looking at all the moderates in the race,” said Rep. Anthony Brindisi (D-N.Y.), who holds a GOP-leaning district in upstate New York. “If we’re going to campaign on issues like Medicare for All and free college for everybody, we’re not going to have a winning message in 2020.”

House Democrats in battleground districts are anxious for a moderate to lead the ballot in 2020, warning that a self-described socialist like Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) or liberal icon like Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) could hurt their own chances in the fall — and help reelect President Donald Trump. Most won over independents and moderate Republicans to flip long-held GOP districts in 2018.

[ehrnst]

4. What "unhinged attacks?"

Can you provide a link? Or are you referring to fact checking of the candidate's statements?

[The Valley Below]

13. Irony is dead.

[Sloumeau]

17. The Valley Below, thanks for the good laugh out loud. :) eom

[melman]

23. You know it

[LanternWaste]

28. You guys consistently push the 'desperation' and 'scared' memes.

Yet never support that sentiment with evidence.

So tell me... what am I desperate and scared of? 'cause it sure as hell ain't Bernie, his campaign or his proxies. As far as I can tell, I'm confident in the primaries, but you keep telling us we're scared and unhinged. Support that premise. At least once.

[brush]

50. If he wins it's McGovern all over again. The repugs will blast he's a socialist 24/7.

They'll run the many videos on youtube of him saying "I'm a socialist".

[calimary]

56. Yep. I think that's a VERY safe bet.

We’ll win the (primary) battle but lose the (general election) war. For exactly the reason you state, brush. trump’s already started it - a tweet weeks ago referring to “socialist/communist” - blurring the two concepts so it’s just about these foreign “ists” that we’re all taught to dread from the get-go: communist, socialist, fascist, collectivist, Leninist, Stalinist, the works.

Few in the general electorate know or understand any of those labels. All they know is it’s all negative and off-putting and somehow or other, NOT “American”. Those are all bad words, scary concepts, and anyone who embraces them doesn’t really have red-white-&-blue Yankee-Doodle blood coursing through their veins. That’s the simplistic, either/or, black-‘n’-white, either/or, good vs evil mindset at work from that side of the divide.

Democrats, liberals, progressives - always operate from a different mindset - one that acknowledges the practical reality of many shades of gray, not mere rigid “black or white” mentality.

Just something I’ve discerned in my 50-some-odd years of watching politics and human behavioral reflexes.

[sheshe2]

60. I agree!

Hassin Bin Sober
1. Must be the reason behind all the unhinged attacks.

Desperation

There we can agree.

[George II]

2. Didn't work the first time, won't work this time. BTW, you forgot this link:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_biden-6247.html

[George II]

11. I'm talking about the OP about a week or two ago (no, I won't go looking for it) that claimed....

....Sanders' "surge" in the polls had the "Democratic establishment" scared. All it took was a post that included that the "surge" resulted in Biden opening up a bigger lead during that "surge".

I'm certainly not trying to refight the 2016 primary. Are you?

[ritapria]

6. Bernie has the Enthusiasm and Organizational Edge in Iowa

That is not going to be fully reflected in Polls of Likely Caucus Goers …….Because of that you can add 5% to Bernie's poll standing in Iowa …. His campaign in Iowa has placed a laser-like focus on bringing in first time caucus voters to his cause ….The campaign in 2016 was not well -organized in Iowa and yet lost by just a handful of votes ….They learned from from that mistake and have had 4 years to get organized in Iowa …...They have developed a concept known as precinct mapping and the state is being augmented by thousands of volunteers from neighboring states …..

[LanternWaste]

31. With his record cash haul, one would expect Sanders to be doing much better than he is.

But we're still seeing flat-line numbers.

[ehrnst]

37. Enthusiasm doesn't mean your vote counts more than anyone else.

The votes of 10 very enthusiastic voters don't outweigh than the votes of 16 others for someone else, no matter how much those 10 reeeeeaaaalllllly wanted it, or how much less over the moon those 16 seemed to be about their candidate.

I think people forget that.

[Scurrilous]

88. Bernie Sanders: Mr. Enthusiasm. Gets the people excited. And sometimes energized.

Septuagenarian Bernie Sanders to Joe Biden: You Don't Have the 'Energy and Enthusiasm' to Beat Trump

"Sen. Bernie Sanders said Monday that Democratic front-runner Joe Biden lacks the “energy and excitement” needed to defeat President Donald Trump in November.

“What is imperative is that we defeat Trump, the most dangerous president in modern history,” Sanders said in an interview with CNN’s Anderson Cooper.

“And that means you’re going to have to have a huge voter turnout. You’ll have to have working people excited. You’ll have to get young people excited.”

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/septuagenarian-bernie-sanders-joe-biden-you-dont-have-energy-and-enthusiasm-beat-trump


WHY BERNIE SANDERS IS STAYING IN THE RACE (5/5/2016)

"When interviewers pressed Sanders on whether he was doing the Republicans a favor by staying in, he insisted that, by continuing to engage young voters and independents, he was helping his own Party’s chances. “The way Democrats win elections is when the voter turnout is high, when people are excited. And that’s what we are doing,” he said to Scott Pelley on Wednesday’s edition of the “CBS Evening News.”

https://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/why-bernie-sanders-is-staying-in-the-race?verso=true


Bernie Sanders Says He's Staying In And It's 'Good For The Democratic Party' (5/4/2016)

"Sanders elaborated, noting that by staying in the race, he is energizing voters and, therefore, in fact boosting the Democratic Party to victory in November. "

https://www.npr.org/2016/05/04/476766494/bernie-sanders-says-hes-staying-in-and-its-good-for-the-democratic-party

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

125. THIS... 100 PERCENT!! THE ENTHUSIASM BUILDING FOR BERNIE'S PROGRESSIVE MOVEMENT IS MASSIVE!!

And not just in Iowa... it's erupting across the entire country!!

We The People have been hungering for a bold progressive agenda for DECADES, as they watch wealth inequality, racial inequality, climate change, the healthcare crisis continually worsen, and they are rejecting moderate incremental proposals that simply do not adequately address these agenda items and, thus, fail to excite the DEMOCRATIC base.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[TidalWave46]

7. There is nothing said group likes to think more than that they are feared.

It is written in article after article and then people will follow it up with post after post about how they are feared.

The reason why is very simple. One cannot use scare tactics against someone you know isn't scared of you. It is literally a whole group living in an alternate reality telling themselves that everyone is scared of them. Without that, they have no tactic or reason for political being.

[Perseus]

8. I hope that DNC respects the will of the people

I do like a lot about Bernie, one specially is that he won't cater to trump or any of the republicans. The moment the creature says something to him stupid and childish, Bernie will kick his butt in front of everyone, just like he has done to many during the debates who are no longer running. And he is sharp!

[ehrnst]

12. The DNC respects the will of the majority of primary voters. They always have.

You seem to think otherwise?

[ehrnst]

18. I do. Where does your source say "the DNC didn't respect the will of the majority of voters?"

The voters chose Hillary as the Democratic candidate by an clear majority, and Hillary got the nomination. The DNC did nothing to stop the nomination of the choice of the majority of Democratic voters.

Can you point out where your article states otherwise?



Perhaps you're unaware of the dates of the emails that are referenced in the article you shared?

Perhaps you are the one that needs to read the news more often, even if the source doesn't consistently support your particular bias.

[Hortensis]

21. The source is Sanders. He's been feeding them that for 5 years. nt

[ehrnst]

22. Because it sure isn't in the article that was provided in response, that's for sure.

Also, the date of the emails that were referenced in the article didn't appear in the snippet of the article posted.

Conveniently....

I doubt we'll hear more now that's been pointed out.

[Hortensis]

25. It's developed the strength of secular religion.

To accept the truth would require abandoning a lie internalized to support a political belief system.

Might as well ask evangelical trumpsters to admit that even their god wouldn't send a Trump to do his work.

[LiberalLovinLug]

29. So the DNC made an apology for ......nothing?

Wow, that's some kind of 5 D chess Bernie was playing. Such a smart man. Only confirms he should be President.

[ehrnst]

33. So your source had nothing to do with my question about how "the DNC was

not respecting the will of the majority of Democratic voters?"

Or do you plan to answer that in another response?

Perhaps you got caught out by my asking you if you knew the dates of the emails referred to in your source, and are trying to move the goalposts? Embarassed?



Also - I don't see Bernie as someone very interested in Chess.

[Steven Maurer]

59. Sometimes when dealing with the unhinged, you apologize for nothing

It happens in family relationships. It happens between governments. It's what the US did to China when one of their pilots crashed into a US jet about a decade ago. We knew they were at fault, but they were too emotional to be reasonable.

And it absolutely happened with the Sanders conspiracy theorists: "I'm sorry, honey, that it was my fault that you got 2.7 million less votes for your candidate and threw a tantrum that got Trump elected. Can you think about the fate of America, if not the entire planet, now?"

[Hortensis]

87. The DNC did NOT apologize for injuring him in any way.

There was no injury. Some who had to deal with Sanders shared with sympathetic ears.

But, it's true that private irritated comments, never meant to be public, do not adhere to the standards of the DNC. Even privately, DNC staff should have remained scrupulously professional about all candidates. And with hostile Russian hacking making their comments public, an apology was issued.

NOW,

There will NEVER be apologies from Sanders:
* Not to the DNC and many state parties for lying that they "rigged" many elections,
* Not to all the followers whose trust he betrayed,
* Not for tacitly accepting assistance from the same hostile nation who hacked the DNC,
* Not to the nation he did enormous grave harm to. We'll never know how many didn't vote for Democrats because of that, but the numbers we do know in just those three key states were enough to throw the election to the Republicans.

But I much prefer it that way because no apology could ever be meaningful.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

126. Bernie IS a master political strategist, as confirmed by the masterful campaign he is running.

So yes, it could be another "5-D CHESS" move on Bernie's part, while others are busy playin' checkers!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[ehrnst]

34. Still not seeing where the "DNC was not respecting the will of the majority of Democratic

voters."

One email sent from one person. Goodness, the very power of those newfangled electronic communications!

[LiberalLovinLug]

36. None so blind...

[ehrnst]

38. Got nothing, I see...

Who's the blind one again?

Clinging to mythology.

But I'll bite - "On guard" from what?

[Hortensis]

42. How is it you don't see that they DIDN'T DO IT?

There's an enormous difference between a suggestion and implementing it.

Every president and general for the past 20 years has had assassinating Suleimani on their list of "suggestions" because it's something that could be done, also btw, taking children away from their parents at the border was sometimes at the bottom of lists of possible options. They were there because they were technically possible.

But they were never done by Democrats, because in reality both were actually totally un-doable. And neither was this, as you should know.

[ehrnst]

47. Indeed. (nt)

[Cha]

69. That's right.

[ehrnst]

41. Can you show me where the will of the majority of Democrats was actually thwarted by the DNC

despite the best efforts of others.

[betsuni]

57. Sanders: "Trust me, if they went into our emails -- I suppose which could happen, who knows --

I'm sure there would be statements that would be less than flattering about, you know, the Clinton staff. That's what happens in campaigns."

http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044

[ehrnst]

62. Yep.

[Cha]

68. Perhaps you should follow your own advice?

[whistler162]

55. Hopefully Bernie respects the will of the people

this time!

[ehrnst]

91. +1000.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

127. President Sanders most certainly WILL... starting the minute he takes the oath of office!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

102. So true, on so many levels!! People know what's what.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[still_one]

10. What is an "establishment Democrat"? A candidate who didn't hire Briana Joy Gray, Jill Stein

supporter as their press secretary, or Hillary hating David Sirota, who scrubbed all his anti-Hillary posts from social media

[oasis]

112. Establishment Democrats are full time, loyal Democrats. nt

[still_one]

113. True

[Fix The Stupid]

15. They'll pull the "Donna Brazille" thing again.

Bank on it.

[ehrnst]

30. What's this "Donna Brazille thing" the Democratic Establishment supposedly "pulled?"

Putting a woman of color in a position of authority?

A woman of color supporting the nominee chosen by the clear majority of Democratic voters?

[ehrnst]

89. Cat got your tongue?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

133. I'm pretty sure Donna Brazille issued an apology, for which she should be given credit & forgiven.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[The Valley Below]

16. I'm not sure it's a winning strategy for a campaign (or its supporters) to highlight

the fact that a huge portion of the Democratic Party and its leadership fears your candidate.

But don't let me dissuade you from advancing that message. Your call.

[Sloumeau]

19. LOL :)

They fear us! They fear our power! They fear our strength! They fear our numbers! They fear our enthusiasm! Look at the fear in their eyes! Hahahaha!

Please, don't stop. It is all just too funny.

[lapfog_1]

44. don't forget the organizational skills

I mean I'm trembling in a pool of my own sweat over that.

[ehrnst]

20. ...

[LiberalLovinLug]

35. The largest fund raiser from small donations in history?

more individual donations than any other candidate. Suggests where the heart of the grass roots of the party lie.

But please, don't be afraid of him. Embrace him. Missed the chance last time round. Voters are tired of establishment candidates. They will lose to Trump. We need a bold ideas person like Warren or Sanders to entice voters.

[The Valley Below]

39. Not a chance.

Sanders is my last choice by a wide margin (save neck-in-neck Gabbard).

[ehrnst]

46. If those donations don't represent voters, they're not really indicative of that candidate's

actual popularity or chances of winning at the polls, are they?

Particularly if one person is donating $3 hundreds of times... that's not hundreds of individual donors. That's one donor giving THOUSANDS but it's counted as hundreds of small individual donations....and assumed by Sanders supporters to be from hundreds of different donors.

But that's not really the case, is it? Fuzzy statistics. Those 850 donations don't represent 850 individual voters. They represent ONE voter.

WASHINGTON—The February day that Sen. Bernie Sanders began his second Democratic presidential campaign, Christine Peloza gave him $27, the amount Mr. Sanders often boasted was the average donation in his first run.Then, she kept giving, in $3 increments, clicking donate up to 20 times a day.

By the end of June, Ms. Peloza, a 34-year-old office manager at an elderly care facility in Illinois, had donated more than 850 times to Mr. Sanders.

https://www.allsides.com/news/2019-10-25-0625/small-donors-get-creative-give-over-and-over-2020-candidates

What voters are tired of is the status quo of politicians not applying the same purity standards to themselves that they demand of other candidates. Or letting them believe something that really isn't accurate because it benefits a candidate's brand.

[brooklynite]

24. Per the Economist model, Sanders hasn't gained an inch since the race began...

https://projects.economist.com/democratic-primaries-2020/

[Dream Girl]

27. I'm fearful of what he does when he doesn't get the nomination

So there's that.

[empedocles]

40. Certain repeated characteristics usually ascribed to trump by DUers?

[LanternWaste]

32. You guys are really pushing the "scared" meme, but never offer evidence to support it.

[Lunabell]

43. Truth to power scares a lot of people.

People on both sides fear Bernie and his popularity. He's the real deal when it comes to giving power to the people. We need him now more than ever.

[ehrnst]

48. I don't think that he does. In fact he has a bit of enthusiastic support on the GOP side.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/07/bernie-sanders-republican-senate-1307296

As he has in the past.

I think that one way that people might feel better about being in a minority is to convince themselves that the majority is 'scared' of them.

I think that it's similar to the rationalization that some people apply to their candidate not getting much in the way of endorsement from the candidates' colleagues and peers. They convince themselves that their candidate is so effective and so ethical that their peers "fear" their candidate, or are jealous and don't want that candidate to succeed....

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

131. It sure does! Fortunately theres a cure for "Fear the Bern" syndrome...his name is President Sanders

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[crazytown]

45. Winning an an outright majority in the primaries?

Not going to happen. Winning a brokered convention? Bernie has burned too many bridged bridges.

What everyone is scared of is Sanders surrogates going rogue in the GE , like David Sirota in 2016, continuing to bash the Nominee right up to election eve. Disinformation and abuse filled the Sanders' Facebook pages from September onwards. They did nothing. No one post.

And those fears are reasonable. Sanders appointed those urging a third party vote to his leadership team.

[Gothmog]

49. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[janterry]

51. that's one of the reasons I support Bernie

and Warren

I don't want to go moderate Democrat (again).

[Gothmog]

53. If sanders is the nominee, trump could win 45+ states

[janterry]

54. I really don't think so

I think we need someone from 'outside the box'.

I think that's how Trump got elected. Folks wanted someone who didn't sound like the same old same old.

If that's true (and of course, who knows - ) - Biden IS the same old same old. He sounds like a politician cut from the same cloth as any other.

If more people are just looking for a return to the past (Obama years, perhaps). Biden DOES bring the promise of that.

I guess we'll see as it all plays out

[ehrnst]

64. No, that's not how "someone like Trump got elected."

Hillary won, and against many other odds than misogyny on both the left and right...

[janterry]

73. I only can report on how I feel

what I see, what others around me say.

(as can you

[totodeinhere]

63. He could just as easily beat Joe. It's going to be a tough fight no matter who gets the

nomination. So I may as well support the candidate who comes closest to my views and who did not vote for the Iraq War.

[ehrnst]

66. There was more than one vote for bombing Iraq.

In 1998 Sanders voted in favor of the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, which said: "It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime."

Later that same year, Sanders also backed a resolution that stated: "Congress reaffirms that it should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime."

Sanders also voted for the 2001 Authorization Unilateral Military Force Against Terrorists (AUMF), which pretty much allowed Bush to wage war wherever he wanted.

Authorization for Use of Military Force - Authorizes the President to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations, or persons.
States that this Act is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of the War Powers Resolution.

So.... it's down to the younger candidates and Liz Warren for you, yes?

[totodeinhere]

83. I love Elizabeth and I would gladly vote for her if she gets the nomination. n/t

[ehrnst]

92. But you would vote for the candidate that voted to bomb Iraq in 1998.

OK.

[Gothmog]

67. No one thinks that sanders has a chance

Clinton had a great book of oppo on sanders that she never used because no one got that sanders had a chance. If any of the current candidates thought that sanders was going to win, the oppo would come out

There are far too many real democrats who have good memories and who will not forgive or forget. I will support the nominee of the party but I do not think that sanders will be the nominee. If sanders looks like he might be the nominee, the oppo will come out if not by a campaign then some down ballot candidates will take matters into their own hands

[totodeinhere]

84. "No one" is quite a stretch. Of course we can disagree on who we think has the best chance.

But haven't you seen the plethora of articles lately that state that Bernie just might win this thing? Then there was another article that went something like "Get ready for President Sanders." Now of course we have to consider the source. Some sources may have anterior motives. And yes if the Trump campaign thinks that it has a better chance to beat Bernie then they might covertly promote him. I'm not naive and I understand that. And of course you as a Biden supporter and I as a Sanders supporter may also have our own motives. But I think it's pretty clear that there are some people who do legitimately believe that Sanders can win, and I am one of them. If I didn't think he could win, I would support him. And it's also important to understand that once this nomination fight gets settled we will all need to be on the same team and concentrate our efforts on beating enemy number one in the White House.

[Gothmog]

85. The media is pushing a horse race for ratings

If people really believed that sanders had a chance, then you would see some serious vetting. sanders has so much baggage that it is not even funny. The media has not seriously vetted sanders because the media knows that sanders has no chance. The Clinton campaign had a 150 page memo (that was well written) with a 1000+ pages of back up of oppo on sanders that the Clinton campaign never bothered using against sanders. Russia hacked this oppo and released.

If the media really believes that sanders has a chance you will see some fun articles. For example, in order for sanders to be vialbe in the real world sanders would need the support of African American voters. If sanders appears to make support with this key block of Democratic voters, you will see articles about sanders delegates booing John Lewis, Elijah Cummings, Stacy Abrams and others at the national convention. There is a great deal of anger still out there on this stunt pulled by the sanders campaign/delegates that would insure that sanders will not be the nominee.

I am amused at the articles predicting that sanders will be the nominee. I would love to see the media actually vet sanders. The amusing articles promoting a tight race or horse race are being used for ratings. Again, if sanders was considered to be a viable candidate, you would see the oppo being used on sanders

[totodeinhere]

93. There is that too. Of course the media wants a horse race. But Nate Silver, who

doesn't have a dog in this fight as far as I know does give Bernie a legitimate chance, although at this point he calculates that the odds are against any one candidate including Biden.

[ehrnst]

96. Isn't that "a hypothetical?"

You know, what you don't "respond to?"

[totodeinhere]

100. No, I'm just repeating what Nate's analysis is. That's not the same as subjecting

me personally to a hypothetical
.

[ehrnst]

105. But you are "responding" to that hypothetical, yes?

[Gothmog]

97. Nate has sanders at one chance out of five

Last edited Thu Jan 9, 2020, 11:49 PM - Edit history (1)

Nate has given sanders a 21% chance of being the nominee compared to a 42% chance for Biden

Link to tweet

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-primary-forecast/ I like Biden's odds far better than sanders odds

Again, if sanders ever become viable, the press will start vetting sanders and the oppo that out there will come out. If sanders ever gets a significant percentage of support from African American voters, you will see videos of sanders delegates booing John Lewis, Elijah Cummings and Stacy Abrams being shown. Until, there is no need to worry about sanders

[totodeinhere]

101. Yes, as I said, no candidate has a better than 50-50 chance at this point according

to Nate. But a one in five chance is a legitimate chance. I never said that Bernie should be considered the favorite at this point. But I am saying that he is a legitimate contender. I don't understand why anyone would object to that. Just because you support another candidate why can't you acknowledge that others in the race also have a chance?

[ehrnst]

106. But still, it's a hypothetical at this point, yes?

[totodeinhere]

114. No it's a finite result of polling and it is the

subject of the OP. It may or may not be totally accurate of course.

[ehrnst]

117. Then it's speculation, yes?

[Gothmog]

111. 42% is significantly closer to 50% than 21%

I like where Joe is at

[totodeinhere]

115. Of ocurse if you support him for the nomination then you would like

a result showing him leading. That's not much of a revelation.

[ehrnst]

118. You would lean towards the hypthetical prediction that he has a better chance.

Yes?

[ehrnst]

90. Remember, there was a 'plethora' of DU posts that stated "bernie just might win this thing"

in 2016.

Sources do matter, and there are many self-described left sources pushing Bernie's nomination who hate the Democratic party. Yes, there are motives behind many of those sources and they have more to do with burning the Democratic party to the ground than defeating Trump.

So there's that.

The GOP promoted Sanders in 2016, and it appears that many in the GOP are promoting him again.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/07/bernie-sanders-republican-senate-1307296


Will you support Bernie if he decides not to concede to the choice of Democratic voters, as per pledged delegates, should it not be him?

[totodeinhere]

94. I usually don't respond to hypotheticals.

I will vote for the eventual nominee. That's what really matters.

[ehrnst]

95. Except if that hypothetical involves speculation that Bernie "might win" the nomination.

But no others.

Got it.

[totodeinhere]

98. No, I also think that Joe or Elizabeth or someone else might also win.

I never said that Bernie has a lock on winning.

[ehrnst]

99. More hypotheticals... I guess you've changed your mind about responding to them?

Good.

So, if Elizabeth wins the number of pledged delegates for the nomination, and Bernie does not concede, will you still support him?

[totodeinhere]

103. You're trying to set me up here. I will support whoever gets the nomination as I already said.

I'm not going to speculate about who will support whom in the process. I'm confident that all of our major candidates will support the eventual nominee when all is said and done. Gabbard might not but I don't consider her to be a major candidate.

[ehrnst]

107. I'm just trying to get an answer to my question, and you keep evading with

"I don't respond to hypotheticals" while discussing them all over the place.

What is that "settting you up" for?

An answer you are particularly uncomfortable with or embarassed about?

That's not on me.



So, if Elizabeth wins the number of pledged delegates for the nomination, and Bernie does not concede, will you still support him?

[totodeinhere]

109. Let me try one more time. It's as if I asked you if you would support Warren if she took

out a gun and shot Bernie. It's a ridiculous hypothetical and after all, I'm posting on on online forum. I'm not sitting on a witness stand answering questions under oath and you aren't a prosecutor. I'm not obliged to respond to your ridiculous questions. I should have just ignored you I guess.

[ehrnst]

110. Yet, you keep responding repeatedly. With evasions.

This time with a particularly florid and angry one, getting in an attack on a straw man to boot.



Perhaps you feel less distress if you used the ignore feature.

Just a thought. A hypothetical conjecture, if you will.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

124. Hypothetically Joe could win, but IMHO it's unlikely wh you look at the trend & his poor performance

Last edited Mon Jan 13, 2020, 09:40 PM - Edit history (1)

in the last two prior primary races he ran in and lost in 1998 and 2008. When Joe is properly vetted, including a look into the reasons he lost those two primary elections, I believe he's likely to withdraw early again from this primary race, for those and other reasons. But could Joe hypothetically survive the vetting process, finish the primary race this time, and even win it? Sure... anything is possible.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[emmaverybo]

136. I don't think you realize that Biden has built a very impressive resume since 2008 as Obama's

Vice-President and that many voters other than yourself do know of his many accomplishments
as a part of that most popular administration. So Biden’s image has been considerably burnished
since his previous runs.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

137. You make a fair point emma... Joe was a VERY loyal VP to Obama & he does deserve credit for that.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[emmaverybo]

139. Well, loyalty certainly goes to his character and folks being glad on behalf of Obama. But he did

not merely act as some faithful servant 2008-2016. He was vital to The Recovery Act and Obamacare, tasked with gun control, post-war Iraq, and reviving his own VAWA. He was also involved in foreign policy, the forte for which Obama had chosen him, and an altogether powerful
VP, playing a more active role in governance than most VP’s before him in the modern era.

At the same time, he retained his individuality behind closed doors, never content to be a yes man.

He attained in his own right the trust and respect of many foreign leaders and a stature on the world stage no other candidate can claim, a fact that some voters may well consider given these perilous times and the terrible damage Trump has done as a result of his incompetence, impulsivity, and egomania forging confusing foreign relations and policy in the world.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

123. Why would you? You notice these "hypotheticalists" always know peep's inner most thoughts & motives

when all it does is create division. Now imagine if we pretended to know THEIR motives and the stink it would cause!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[Gothmog]

122. The last time we experimented with a close to Bernie and Liz candidate was in 1972-George McGovern.

Link to tweet

[AlexSFCA]

52. that's pretty much crystal clear

and he would likely select Gabbard as his running mate. Not quite the landslide but we will lose FL, AZ, PA and WI if Bernie is the nominee. Equally important he would cause losses across the ticket on national, state and local election. This is because if he is the nominee, all dem politicians will have no choice but to fully embrace and campaign for him. This will mean Democratic Party is the Socialist Party in the eyes of all media and majority of people. This does not play well with half of dem voters, not to mention independents.
Bernie’s chance of winning the nomination is second only to Biden. His chances of winning are much higher than in 2016 cause doesn’t need majority support due to the number of other well polling candidates. Unlike Biden, Bernie managed to generate MUCH more enthusiasm and his supporters are extremely loyal and determined. Biden needs to step up his game and do way more rallies, have bold new plans for the nation not same recycled old talking points. He needs to increase his online presence and generate excitement among young people. Now is the time for him to announce his prospective VP, and it’d better be Stacey Adams or the like.

[msongs]

58. not looking for a new messiah but thanks for sharing anyway nt

[betsuni]

61. I thought that said "whining" instead of "winning."

[UniteFightBack]

65. LOL may I please have whatever you are ingesting? Post it enough and maybe it will come true! nt

[David__77]

70. I'm looking forward to casting a vote for Bernie Sanders!

...

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

134. YOU AND ME BOTH!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[MrsCoffee]

71. He keeps using that word....

insert Princess Bride quote here.

[Gothmog]

72. No one really thinks that sanders will be the nominee

There is a ton of oppo that can easily be used against sanders. No one is using that oppo on sanders because no one is really worried about sanders being the nominee. Clinton had a ton of great oppo on sanders but never used this oppo because sanders had been mathematically eliminated by the results of the super Tuesday contests.

For sanders to be competitive, sanders would have to make significant inroads with African American voters. That is not going to happen. If nothing, many African Americans remember sanders delegates booing John Lewis, Stacy Abrams, Elijah Cummings and others at the national convention. If sanders appears that he is getting support from African American voters, you will see clips of the National Convention being shown. In addition all of the speeches of sanders praising Fidel Castro and other socialist leaders will start appearing.

I will support the nominee of the party. I doubt that sanders will be the nominee. There are too many real democrats who have good memories and these real Democrats will not forgive or forget

[RandiFan1290]

74. "May your choices reflect your hopes, not your fears."

Just hope they don't try to run a 3rd party candidate like they did in Florida 2010. They didn't like who the people picked to run for Senate so they ran Charlie Crist to split the vote and give us Marco Rubio. Only time I ever saw DU allow a 3rd party campaign to run against a Democrat.

[Alpeduez21]

76. Anti establishment feelings are very

Prevalent. The need to elect
An outsider didn’t hurt the lazy lying steaming pile Hump.

Instead of insisting on moving to the moderate maybe ALOT more attention should be given to progressive ideology.

[ehrnst]

77. Anti establishment feelings are very prevalent in

Trump supporters.

[TwilightZone]

79. We probably shouldn't use Trump supporters as our baseline.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

132. Bernie's bold progressive agenda will triumph over moderate incrementalism! We The People demand it!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[Evergreen Emerald]

78. If Bernie wins

I fear a loss in the general.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

129. You misspelled "Biden."

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[myohmy2]

80. "Fears of Bernie Sanders winning..."

...I think it's all part of a psychological process of accepting the inevitable...

...first rejection, then anger, followed by fear, then finally a willing acceptance...

...it's understandable...

...I would feel the same if Biden could win...

...in reality, a President Sanders is not to be feared, but embraced...

...you'll see...

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

108. Yes, fear of President Sanders is irrational. Indeed, Bernie is continually growing on those people

with open minds and kind hearts... they are rational in seeing Bernie aggressively pushing a progressive agenda that leads the way forward to a better world, as opposed to a moderate, incrementalist approach that continues to leave more and more people behind.

Indeed, those rational people see Bernie for who he is, as an authentic, consistent Democratic leader who is prepared to fight to the death for the dreams and aspirations of the downtrodden working class on Main Street and to tell the greedy corporatists on Wall Street to go fuck themselves!!

More and more of us are joining Bernie in that fight... we've got his back, the same way he's always had ours!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

130. The only thing I fear is the massive oppo research the Rethugs would unleash on Biden...

if he managed to eke out his first primary election win.

It's obvious they fear Bernie... and for VERY good reason!! Bernie would create enormous enthusiasm in the general that leads to the kind of voter turnout that would clobber Dolt45 in a landslide!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[MineralMan]

81. Well, I know I'm shaking in my boots, for sure.

[liberalmuse]

82. Caucuses are meaningless and we need to get rid of them.

They actually hurt and divide our party at this point in time and do not reflect the actual primary vote.

[Gothmog]

86. Nevada and Iowa are two of the few remaining caucuses

sanders won a decent percentage of his delegates in caucuses last cycle. Most of these states have abandoned caucuses which makes me smile

[getagrip_already]

104. you people are funny.....

Surge in iowa?

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-primary-d/iowa/

Sure, for joe.

Surge in national?

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-primary-d/national/

Nope, not there either. Just status quo.

Surge in fake news? yup.

But hey, if it makes you happy to believe it, go ahead. Iowa has 54 delegates out of ~4300. They are proportionally allocated. So the winner may get a few more than number 2. Well whooopy there.

[lame54]

116. If he does win - THEY'D BETTER FUCKING SUPPORT HIM

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

135. YOU'RE DAMN FUCKIN' RIGHT!! WE CAN'T AFFORD ANOTHER YEAR OF THE PUMA!!

That could cost us the election... this country simply won't survive another 4 years of President Pig Vomit!! We absolutely must unite like never before. I have a good feeling we'll be uniting around Bernie, who is the best candidate to heal this country. But, in the unlikely event it's not Bernie, as the saying goes, it's absolutely essential that we "vote blue, no matter who."


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[TSIAS]

119. They should be afraid

A Biden nomination is still the most likely result, but Sanders is in tremendous position to make it very close.

People like Neara Trashcan won't be able to stack a Sanders administration with Center for American Progress nominees.

Dr Jason Johnson, PhD in proctology, won't be on MSNBC as an expert analysis now that he's been exposed as full of shit.

I am interested to see how Bernie reacts if he's president. Trump bowed to the GOP Establishment and Military Industrial Complex in staffing his Admin. It's hard to run a government and most of the experienced hands are of the neoliberal variety. I'm confident Chief of Staff Nina Turner will make the right decision, unless she's selected as the VP first.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

138. Yes VERY afraid, but Fear the Bern will soon give way to Hear the Bern when he gives his nomiation

acceptance speech at the Democratic Convention!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[Gothmog]

120. Obama campaign guru: Trump would love to run against Bernie

Link to tweet

Barack Obama’s 2012 campaign manager is warning that Democrats would struggle in a general election against Donald Trump if Bernie Sanders is the nominee.

In an interview with POLITICO, Jim Messina predicted that Trump would exploit Sanders’ stamp of socialism in battleground states needed to defeat Trump, keep control of the House and have a shot at winning the Senate.

“If I were a campaign manager for Donald Trump and I look at the field, I would very much want to run against Bernie Sanders,” Messina said. “I think the contrast is the best. He can say, ‘I’m a business guy, the economy’s good and this guy’s a socialist.’ I think that contrast for Trump is likely one that he’d be excited about in a way that he wouldn’t be as excited about Biden or potentially Mayor Pete or some of the more Midwestern moderate candidates.”....

“From a general election perspective, socialism is not going to be what Democrats are going to want to defend,” Messina added.“If you’re the Democratic nominee for the Montana Senate race, you don’t want to spend the election talking about socialism.”

Messina is the latest Democrat to raise concerns about Sanders at the top of the ticket. Endangered House Democrats are coalescing around Biden because of concerns that Sanders or Elizabeth Warren could threaten their reelection hopes, POLITICO reported Saturday.

[rzemanfl]

128. That post removed person always posts to threads like this one. n/t