Anyone upset that Morning Consult found more self-described moderate Dems than liberal Dems, please

[highplainsdem]

keep in mind that they were asking people for how those terms fit WITHIN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

NOT asking if people would consider themselves "moderate" in a spectrum from the farthest left to the farthest right in US politics overall.

I'm bringing this up because it seemed some people were upset by the terminology, since the Democratic Party IS a liberal party, left or center-left in its policies and platforms.

Link to the thread about that poll finding

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287410592

which had the subject line

Morning Consult replies to AOC's comments on the Democratic party being too big a tent


That thread links to the tweet from Morning Consult, linking to their summary of their poll findings on how Democrats describe themselves.

I think, after seeing some of the reactions in the earlier thread, that I should link to the PDF of the complete survey:

https://morningconsult.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/80278_190920_crosstabs_SPD_Democratic_RVs_v2_JB_STACKED.pdf


You'll have to look at page 241, near the end of that PDF file, to see the options respondents were given.

They were:

Liberal
Conservative/Blue Dog Democrat
Democratic socialist
Moderate Democrat
Don't know / No opinion


I think some of the confusion about what those respondents meant by "moderate" was due to Morning Consult changing the "Moderate Democrat" choice in their survey to just "Moderate" in their graph showing that bloc of 44%, and in their summary article at https://morningconsult.com/2019/09/12/more-democrats-say-the-democratic-party-is-liberal-and-theyre-ok-with-it/

When you look at the survey itself, it's clear that the people identifying as moderate are saying their views would be considered moderate FOR A DEMOCRAT.


And btw, if anyone is wondering why so many Dems would identify themselves as moderate Dems...I think the answer is in how far left the left wing of the party has gone, especially those who call themselves democratic socialists.

I consider myself a liberal. I've been a liberal for as long as I was politically aware (which started when I was 10, when JFK was running against Nixon).

But compared to democratic socialists, in a spectrum that includes them, I could be considered a moderate.

And I'm fine with that description, too, as long as it's understood that means moderate Democrat. Which is still a liberal.

[JoeOtterbein]

1. All Democrats will be tagged as being socialists by the Repubs...

...like they do every election.

Nothing new this time either.

[highplainsdem]

2. But that label won't stick to Biden the way it will to Sanders and even Warren.

[Dennis Donovan]

4. They equate Joe Manchin with Che Guevara...

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. I don't know what "moderate" is even supposed to mean.

The opposite of moderate is immoderate, the definition of which is "not sensible or restrained; excessive." If you're a moderate does that mean you reject those positions that are not sensible or restrained or are excessive? If so, you can call me a moderate even though I've always been a devout liberal. There are only opinions. I might think some positions are excessive and not sensible while others might think they're awesome. So who gets to decide? We all do, by our votes.

[The Valley Below]

5. Yes it bugs the hell out of me. Being a liberal (and embracing liberalism) means something.

Democratic socialists are not "more liberal" than liberals.

The re-framing seems like a deliberate strategy.

I am a proud liberal Democrat in the proud tradition of our party.

[Sloumeau]

6. highplainsdem, I know exactly what you are saying.

When I take those online tests about how Conservative or Liberal you are, I am practically off the chart Liberal/Progressive, and I always thought of myself that way. Yet, when Bernie Sanders ran against Hillary Clinton in the 2016 Primary, I started thinking, "OK, if that I considered Liberal within the Democratic Party, then I guess I am more moderate than that". I mean, JFK, Carter, Clinton, and Obama always seemed to be right where I was. LBJ seemed good except for Viet Nam.

However, Bernie Sanders is definitely to the left of me, and so is Elizabeth Warren. I have actually moved left over the years, but not that far to the left. I think there are many, many Democrats like me, and I believe that this is why Hillary won and Bernie Lost. The Democratic Party has never nominated someone who is as much of a Socialist as Bernie Sanders before. The Democratic Left seems to want some kind of revolution. As for me, I mostly want a FDR-JFK-Carter-Clinton-Obama type Presidency. Also, I want Protectionism that helps workers instead of being the type of Protectionism that is the Donald Trump "I want China to feel pain!" Protectionism.

[comradebillyboy]

7. Moderate Democrats are pretty liberal in general.

Being a socialist is certainly not moderate in any way. And few if any actual socialist governments were liberal. And no, Sweden and Denmark are not socialist even though they have very generous social benefits.

[Gothmog]

8. There are far more moderates in the party compared to extreme liberals

Link to tweet

.....

[Bradical79]

9. IMO, moderate doesn't have much meaning in the party

At least at the moment. Like you said, relative to Democratic Socialist and Social Democrat ideology, your scale works. But for the mainstream typical voter, it's a very wishy washy term. Often today it just means "Democrat who's willing to work with Republicans". Often it's used for Conservative Democrats like the Blue Dogs.

Biden will get labled moderate today, even though the policies he is running on this primary are often to the left of even Clinton. Being an old white man who talks in an old fashioned tough guy manner, and his statements about working with Republicans, I think plays into a lot the image people have of him that he's more Conservative that he actually is.

BTW, I think those who think working with Republicans is something to strive for are deluding themselves, and not accepting the reality of what the Republican Party has become. A lot of this country is sticking their heads in the sand thinking we can return to "normal" when that ship sailed a long time ago.

[Hortensis]

10. "people...saying their views would be considered moderate FOR A DEMOCRAT."

Yes, and as all honest studies show, the Democratic Party is the liberal party, heavily dominated by liberal ideology.

There is no ideology called "moderate." It's always moderate something. Moderate conservatism. Moderate liberalism. Moderate libertarianism.

This is an interesting attempt to display ideology, one of many. Apparently European based. But I notice it includes populism as a communitarianism bloc -- between liberalism (Sanders) and conservatism (Trump) but opposite libertarianism, which would make sense in view of the economic progressivism of populism (ranging from Sanders' LW collectivist and "benign" nationalist version to the trumpsters' RW "us and ours only" version) and would illustrate why so many populists could align with either.

Notice that even what's labeled "centrist" sections here are centrist liberal, centrist conservative, etc. Moderate would make up the middle of each large ideological bloc.

[TexasTowelie]

11. K&R! nt