Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumAn Awkward Kiss Changed How I Saw Joe Biden
So when my campaign heard from Vice-President Joe Bidens office that he was looking to help me and other Democrats in the state, I was grateful and flattered. His team offered to bring him to a campaign rally in an effort to help boost voter turnout. We set the date for November 1, just three days before election day.
In a state as large but sparsely populated as Nevada, it takes nonstop travel to connect with all its residents. Youre lucky to get properly fed, much less look properly coiffed as female candidates are often required to do. I was exhausted and short on time, so decided to not to wash my hair the morning of the rally. I sprayed some dry shampoo in my hair, raced off to the Reno airport, and flew back to Las Vegas.
The event proceeded as most political events do: coordinated chaos with random problems that no one can predict. I found Eva Longoria, co-founder of the Latino Victory Project, roaming the parking lot trying to figure out how to get inside the union hall. My staff was running around town trying to purchase ferns because according to Bidens team, no other vegetation was acceptable for the stage.
https://www.thecut.com/2019/03/an-awkward-kiss-changed-how-i-saw-joe-biden.html
Like it or not, this is going to be a factor for Biden.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Qutzupalotl
(14,311 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
demmiblue
(36,853 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,345 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Qutzupalotl
(14,311 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dsc
(52,162 posts)or supporter. I doubt anyone would dismiss that as no big deal as you seem to be. If this woman is telling anything remotely like the truth about Biden's behavior it is disqualifying in my mind. Just like it would be if Mayor Pete had done it to a male.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)on the back of a man's head, then he shouldn't do it to a woman, either; no matter how young or cute he thinks she is.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)One might be a misunderstanding. But we won't accept more than 2 or 3 stories like this. And there's more than that out there.
On edit: I take no position on the truth or falsehood of this allegation. I am just noting stories like this have taken down other men.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Qutzupalotl
(14,311 posts)Thats all Im saying.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)The first reason is that he is a master at the art of deflection. Whenever something negative comes out about him, he lies, he attacks, he distracts, he bangs the table and doesn't stop until the media turns their attention to some other issue. Doesn't even matter if it's one of his scandals, or someone else's. As long as he can change the subject, he's good, and he always can change the subject.
The second reason is that Republican voters are much less concerned about this than Democratic voters. We've seen that play out. We do hold our nominees to a higher standard, at least at this since #metoo. It's just unfortunate for Biden that his past behavior was once deemed acceptable (rightly or wrongly), but is not acceptable anymore.
Shameless plug for Buttigieg. He has his own "scandal" but the dynamics work in his favor. First, his issue is no bar for Democratic primary voters. Second, he has his own method of deflecting, I've seen it. His is a positive method, he turns negatives into positives then pivots to shared values and real issues.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
shanny
(6,709 posts)We are better than them.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Lazy Daisy
(928 posts)There will be one after another coming out, and all the times he's done something similar that was caught on camera will be rehashed. It's not going to be pretty.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
You can see plenty of Biden and this on youtube.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,345 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
demmiblue
(36,853 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,345 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hekate
(90,690 posts)...with reality here, and be prepared to defend him or simply accept that his time has come and gone.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,345 posts)roguish "Uncle Joe" figure who has our back and is on our side and haha he sure appreciates a beautiful woman!
But I don't want that guy to be president.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
rzemanfl
(29,557 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to demmiblue (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
demmiblue
(36,853 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Cha
(297,240 posts)who don't consider Gillibrand because she led the charge against Senator Al Franken.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
sheshe2
(83,770 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,240 posts)I thought it was pertinent, too.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
awesomerwb1
(4,268 posts)Nevermind. Just Googled it. She's a massive BS supporter.
I'll remain neutral for now. Everybody recalls events differently. IMO Biden's a good guy and I'm assuming she's a good person as well.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,345 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
awesomerwb1
(4,268 posts)I'm moving on and ordering a burger here.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,345 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
treestar
(82,383 posts)When you are accusing someone. I can claim any impact. Lets not let people just make a claim of wrongdoing without wrongful intent by the person accused. That could happen to you. Imagine being accused like that and it being g accepted you meant no wrong! But yet you are because someone else says so. That would allow manipulation and add fuel to the MRA movement.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,345 posts)I can claim that you had any intent. So where does that leave us?
When it comes to things like assault, we know that the rate of false reporting is very, very low. It certainly happens. But it almost never does. I tend to believe the same when it comes to issues such as this one with Flores and Biden.
It has happened to me, in fact. At the time, I was outraged. I was furious and contemptuous that the injured party couldn't see that I, as a good person, was seen as someone who would use words carelessly in ways that hurt others. It took me years -- a lot of years -- to realize how terribly hurtful my reaction was, and how much damage I did to myself over that time. It would have cost me absolutely nothing to listen to the people telling me my words hurt them; instead, I was hung up on how I was a good person, therefore they were overreacting. If I had listened at the time, I would be a better person today. They tried really hard, publicly, to get me to see what they were saying, but my privilege made me think they were in the wrong.
Undoing these systems takes a lot of work, and it hurts. When it affects people we see as heroes, it hurts a lot. But the work absolutely must be done at some point.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
treestar
(82,383 posts)Doing wrong should not have the burden of proof on bad intent. Some people attribute the worst possible intent to others all the time. Wed all be miserable if we let them rule us.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emulatorloo
(44,124 posts)Characterizing/linking this incident to assaults by bringing up the infrequency of false reporting of assaults is a little OTT
Bidens a hugger. He hugs men, he hugs women.
He should def back off on that. He could hug me anytime and I would hug him back harder. But not everybody feels that way. So he needs to back off.
Insinuating hes an sexual predator or pervert or rapist by practicing extreme hyperbole probably isnt going to fly.
(Not saying you are doing that (other than the questionable assault thing) but we know this language is going to bandied about Twitter who dont necessarily care what damage the do.
I understand you dont want Biden to be the nominee. Maybe lets all talk about policy and talk about why our chosen candidates are great.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)or a salesman who came into your office to sell something, would that be a nothing burger, too?
This isn't about the maliciousness of the grabber, nuzzler, or kisser -- it's about crossing personal boundaries.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
awesomerwb1
(4,268 posts)One specific person. Apples to oranges. Massive overreaction to this. Berners loving it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)If most of them choose to remain silent or back him up, he could survive, but if the floodgates open, it's hard to see how Democratic voters would ignore it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TwilightZone
(25,471 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,345 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TwilightZone
(25,471 posts)"Ash Carter later said that he laughed about the incident and said that he and Stephanie were great friends with the Bidens:
Oh, I laughed. I laughed. I laughed. They know each other extremely well, and were great friends with the Bidens, he said in an interview with NBCs Savannah Guthrie on the Today show. Carter was traveling to his high school alma mater for a speech on the future of the armed forces.
Carters wife later said she was not offended by the vice president putting his hands on her shoulders and whispering in her ear, but Bidens actions drew close scrutiny on social media and late-night talk shows."
But, feel free to keep posting misleading nonsense. Heaven forbid that we look into something that was posted by that leader of journalistic integrity, Buzzfeed. Can't have that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,345 posts)situation calls for a little more decorum -- and is also an example of how people are willing to make excuses for Joe being Joe. That makes it all the harder for someone to speak out about it, and makes the person who does look like a spoilsport.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
John Fante
(3,479 posts)Doubling down on the smearing after it has been debunked.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)And I thought we only had to worry about Russians, fakebook and rethugs. This is an outrage smearing one of own with this manipulated BS induced BS. First Al Franken for no damn good reason and now this sh't. No sense asking ourselves why rethugs win!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)that she wasn't offended -- but with no direct quote.
What would you expect her to say, with her husband working for the Obama administration? Do you really think she would have complained to a reporter about the VP her husband worked with?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Reminded me of dim son grabbing Angela Merkel, a couple of times, I think.
Some men really need to get a clue about observing personal boundaries.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hekate
(90,690 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Qutzupalotl
(14,311 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
demmiblue
(36,853 posts)It's not like it is a secret.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Qutzupalotl
(14,311 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
John Fante
(3,479 posts)I started seeing their (heavily edited) clips back in 2017. They were implying that Biden is a pedo back then - the oldest political smear-job in the playbook. I guess he has graduated to serial groping now? Has he frequented any pizza joints lately?
Good to see the Bernie Bros (and bots) pushing this shit too. Keep it up guys and gals - Trump is gonna need all the help he can get.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,345 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TwilightZone
(25,471 posts)"Ash Carter later said that he laughed about the incident and said that he and Stephanie were great friends with the Bidens:
Oh, I laughed. I laughed. I laughed. They know each other extremely well, and were great friends with the Bidens, he said in an interview with NBCs Savannah Guthrie on the Today show. Carter was traveling to his high school alma mater for a speech on the future of the armed forces.
Carters wife later said she was not offended by the vice president putting his hands on her shoulders and whispering in her ear, but Bidens actions drew close scrutiny on social media and late-night talk shows."
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/joe-biden-grope-photograph/
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)As to what the wife later said (not in quotes) have you never heard of a woman who wanted to smooth things over in an uncomfortable situation? What was she supposed to say to the media? I'm friends with Joe and his wife but I really wish he'd not man-handle me, especially when we're in a formal setting?
I don't know how anyone could look at that series of photos and not see an uncomfortable woman.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TwilightZone
(25,471 posts)You claimed he barely knew her. That assertion is false. Now, you are making an assumption for which there is zero evidence and insisting that she just did it to appease the media.
I'd probably find that insulting were I her. But I don't presume to know how she feels about it.
When we start believing the right-wing spin on things, we lose. I'm not saying that none of the allegations against Biden are true, but this particular one was debunked a long time ago, though that hasn't stopped people on our side of the aisle from doubling down on it.
Have at it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)But I believe she might be as capable of a white lie as I am.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emulatorloo
(44,124 posts)Surely you are not one of those Snopes is lying propaganda people I read about on the net.
As I say love your posts so I doubt you are that kind.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emulatorloo
(44,124 posts)I stand by all the other things I said in my post there
Take care and
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
JI7
(89,249 posts)below is a pic with her husband . if someone didn't know who they were they might think he is creeping her out or something .
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)The videos of Biden nuzzling Stephanie Carter last more than 20 long seconds. She had plenty of time to compose herself and make herself look happy about the nuzzling, but she never did.
Biden was VP. Carter was lower on the hierarchy. What would most women do if their husband's BOSS was nuzzling them, given the power imbalance? What would you have expected Ashley to do? Slap Biden's face?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,240 posts)of the Carters, TwilightZone.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emulatorloo
(44,124 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)the part that tells about what Biden actually did?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
nolabear
(41,963 posts)I honestly dont think theres a skeevy bone in Joes body but he needs to come out and apologize for having unknowingly gotten too close and friendly with American women and made them uncomfortable. And he can promise to do better and follow through.
If we cant apoligize and do better for what are clumsy and not threatening infractions we are doomed, because THEY dont care.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Turbineguy
(37,331 posts)Democrats whenever for whatever reason we can. Cuz we like trump so much.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Turbineguy
(37,331 posts)But we need to find some tiny imperfection in all of them.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)are willing to give Biden a pass on that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Turbineguy
(37,331 posts)get rid of the other candidates. The more we can get rid off, the more we help the republicans.
And no, sexual harassment isn't a "tiny imperfection". But if we can turn a tiny imperfection into sexual harassment...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dsc
(52,162 posts)would you consider it a tiny imperfection if a guy you didn't know came up behind you, sniffed your hair and kissed your head? I suspect if I did that to some male I would get cold cocked unless it was someone I had power over like Biden had over her.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Turbineguy
(37,331 posts)that Biden would do that. He should not do such things. Even with the best of intentions. I wonder if he would have ruined her life in retaliation for protesting. Or get his lawyer to do a hush money deal.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dsc
(52,162 posts)but the fact is she is the one who had to wonder for more than academic reasons if he would if she is telling the truth.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)or kiss a man on the top of the head?
When Biden does this to a woman he's not already close to, it's as inappropriate as if he did it with a man.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JI7
(89,249 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LuvNewcastle
(16,846 posts)Go away, kid, your buggin' me!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)on the tops of their heads?
It's just as inappropriate with women as it is with men.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)has nothing to do with SEXUAL.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)And if you don't think kissing a grown woman on the top of her head is sexual, then imagine Biden kissing a man on the top of his head.
And here he is "turning on the charm" with the female President of Brazil. Can you imagine him sticking his nose in a male President's hair?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2893982/Joe-Biden-turns-charm-historic-visit-Brazil-president-s-inauguration-grapples-rebuild-damaged-relationship.html
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)offended and I believe Joe has very close friendships with all of the people pictured. Relationships and friendships between men and woman and men and men are hugely different in their interactions and it isn't rational or fair to equate the two. Joe Biden is a good man and smearing him like this is absolutely not justified or right. In our current environment, men need to give a wide berth and look away with any woman in close proximity or risk being accused of God knows what.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)What would you expect her to do? And, no, he didn't have a "very close friendship" with her. He had just met her.
His behavior is inappropriate and you KNOW he wouldn't behave the same way with a male head of state. It's condescending and patronizing to do this with women.
No, men don't need to give a wide berth and look away from any women nearby. They just need to treat them as they would any male professional.
How come when George Bush gave Angela Merkel her shoulder rub, DUers instantly knew that was wrong -- and yet they let Biden get away with the same kind of thing and worse?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)must be answered with an extreme absurd response lest accusations such as the one made about Joe Biden will continue.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)Or, in the case of Angela Merkel, with an idiot US President who should have treated her as a peer. He wasn't going around the table rubbing men's shoulders -- only hers.
Yuck. And it's just as yucky when Biden behaves that way -- as he has all his life. It's just that, over the course of his life, more and more women have stopped putting up with it. He should have learned more than he did from Anita Hill and her complaints about Clarence Thomas.
Biden shouldn't get a pass because he "meant well." He should just keep his nose out of women's necks and hair, and not put his hands anywhere he wouldn't put them on a man. Better yet, confine himself to a handshake. Then he wouldn't make any more mistakes.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)You have got this all wrong about Joe Biden.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/128742438
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)the young staffer by holding her and planting a kiss in her hair and basically treating her like a child he could comfort.
It obviously backfired -- as that behavior would for many, many, many women.
We don't want men in the workplace, or any men we are not close to, putting their hands on us, or their noses in our hair, or their mouths anywhere. Our bodies are not there for them to handle without permission, unless we are unconscious and need someone to render first aid.
Unless, of course, we are in a dating situation, when a man should still be very careful about reading the signals.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)To you, maybe.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/128741986#post43
Oh, I laughed. I laughed. I laughed. They know each other extremely well, and were great friends with the Bidens, he said in an interview with NBCs Savannah Guthrie on the Today show. Carter was traveling to his high school alma mater for a speech on the future of the armed forces.
Carters wife later said she was not offended by the vice president putting his hands on her shoulders and whispering in her ear, but Bidens actions drew close scrutiny on social media and late-night talk shows."
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)And the paraphrase is that she "was not offended." What would you expect a woman to say, whose husband worked for the Obama administration? In her place I wouldn't have said anything to the reporter either.
But her face in the photos says everything. Like Angela Merkel's when W tried to give her the shoulder rub.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)Do you think she's too meek to have spoken up in her defense?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)"going along to get along." And in a situation involving her husband's career, all the more so.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emulatorloo
(44,124 posts)Start around 41 seconds in.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)He's overly touchy feely for people these days. Though in some ways it seems people are hugging a lot more and you end up hugging relative strangers, albeit lightly.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)Imagine if you had a boss or co-worker or male employee who behaved like he did, with you. Sticking his nose in your hair or your neck, sniffing you. Planting a kiss on your hair. Most people would not appreciate it.
But that is what Biden was doing, with women he encountered in the course of work.
I don't think he meant to make Lucy Flores or some other women uncomfortable, but he did. He was overly familiar in a way that was fairly common among men in his generation -- but even in a bygone era, it made women uncomfortable. I had a boss like that, who was good in every other way. I must have had a funny look on my face after he came up behind me one day, and put his hands somewhere, because I remember his secretary afterwards saying to me, "Don't worry about Lou. He's harmless. He's just affectionate."
That's how women reacted in those days. We were supposed to excuse men behaving like that as long as we thought they didn't mean us harm. It didn't matter how uncomfortable we felt with the over-familiarity. What was supposed to matter was only whether the man meant something bad by it.
Well, the #metoo era has awakened millions of women. Hopefully, more and more men, too.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)Requires intent. Missteps are often made. Especially when people react as not expected. Im not sure she is credible either. Bernies supporters can often be fanatical.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)and without sensitivity.
For example, sticking his nose into the President of Brazil's hair. Give me a break. She smiled because she had to -- but he wasn't treating her with the dignity that she deserved.
As far as Flores is concerned, the reporter had seen emails she'd written about this years ago -- without coming forward to the press about it. So that gives her some added credibility.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,576 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)it's insensitive and it's treating women as less-than. Biden doesn't nuzzle his nose into men's necks and hair. He shouldn't do that to women either.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emulatorloo
(44,124 posts)There is nothing in her story that remotely says that.
He put his hands on his shoulders and kissed her on the back of her head while they were standing in line together.
Def inappropriate unless you are a close friend. Or a similarly physically affectionate person.
But to characterize that as sexual harassment seems really really hyperbolic im afraid.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,576 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)If Biden can explain, apologize, defend or otherwise make it acceptable, then more power to him. He'll need that ability for the general because all this and more will be thrown at him, by the acknowledged king of negative campaigning and his hypnotized friends in the media.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Turbineguy
(37,331 posts)And he needs to knock this stuff off if he hasn't already done so.
It just seems strange that when news comes out about him leading in a poll yesterday, suddenly somebody remembers something that happened 5 years ago.
And our ethics become our destruction.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)We'll get dirt and coordinated attacks on all the candidates, or at least the ones in the lead. So I'm taking a practical rather than ethical view. It's coming anyway, so we just have to deal with it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)Would do it all in public with the cameras going. Adopting absurd right wing smears about other candidates does not help Bernie.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
John Fante
(3,479 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)have an effective media strategy for handling their negatives. I suspect Biden does not, because a relatively small scandal took him down in 1988. But maybe he's learned since then.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
shanny
(6,709 posts)is to (officially) stay out of the race while all the dirty linen gets aired (and there's a fair amount of it, on multiple fronts). Once the media gets bored and moves on to the next shiny object, he's inoculated. I dunno if I'm OK with that. Some of the "dirty laundry" is pretty ugly.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
RandySF
(58,835 posts)Flores endorsed Senator Bernie Sanders in the 2016 US presidential race, saying that "this is about real lives" and that "this is a system that isnt working for the everyday person. . .its one of the reasons why I decided to endorse Bernie Sanders."[27]
On April 13, 2016, Sanders sent out an email to his supporters asking them to split a contribution to his campaign and Flores' congressional campaign. His reason for this request was that EMILY's List, a group that help's elect pro-choice female Democrats to office, including Sanders' opponent Hillary Clinton,[28] endorsed Flores' opponent Susie Lee[29] instead of her. The organization had endorsed her three times previously.[30] Sanders claimed in a fundraising email that the group did not endorse Flores because she had endorsed Sanders,[31] adding in another email that same day to split the contribution 4 ways instead of just 2, adding Zephyr Teachout and Pramila Jayapal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_Flores
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Deb
(3,742 posts)She's taking down two with one stone, the other is the person she's supporting.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
RandySF
(58,835 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Evergreen Emerald
(13,069 posts)My guess is that it will be a planned attack, once he gets the nomination.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emulatorloo
(44,124 posts)Hasnt worked for them yet, dont see it working anytime soon.
Rove 101: blame others for what you do yourself. Trumps a harrasser, groper, pervert. Oh I know lets pretend Biden is the pervert Trump really is.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)very inappropriately tried to give Prime Minister Angela Merkel -- and none of the men -- a shoulder massage during one of their meetings?
https://www.theguardian.com/news/blog/2006/jul/28/bushrubsmerke
It has proved one of the summer's most improbable smash video hits. Earlier this month the US president, George Bush, was captured giving Germany's leader Angela Merkel a quick back rub at the G8 summit in St Petersburg. Ms Merkel reacts with horror. She flings her arms up and grimaces as the world's most powerful man ambushes her from behind and gropes her shoulders. Afterwards Bush saunters off. The five-second video clip of their encounter has gone down a storm with American internet users, who have clicked on the video more than half a million times. The sequence has also been mixed to a rap by the US hip-hop artist Ludacris - to the chorus: "You don't know me like that". Other versions have tweaked the sequence to the Police song Message in a Bottle - with the song's words amended, of course, to "Massage on the Bottom".
SNIP
In the US, meanwhile, a debate has broken out as to whether giving a back rub amounts to sexual harassment. Was the massage just a harmless bit of fun between two equally powerful leaders? Or was it a deeply unacceptable example of workplace sexual abuse? Several websites have dubbed Bush the "groper in chief", while the Democratic politician Martha Whetstone has expressed outrage. She told the San Francisco Chronicle: "You could use the clip as part of a teaching video on sexual harassment. You'd show people and tell them: 'Nobody in a position of authority should do something like that'."
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
theophilus
(3,750 posts)with things like this.....fair or unfair. If this one exists there are probably a gazillion more. True or not this is what we would have heard from the convention til Trump won his second term. For the good of the nation and the world just say No, Joe. Please don't get in to the race.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kahuna7
(2,531 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,576 posts)The stuff they whine about won't matter in a genera.l
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kahuna7
(2,531 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)Are we competing to match drumpf's behaviour?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kahuna7
(2,531 posts)to win at all costs.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)so that others can attempt to gain positions or rankings.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kahuna7
(2,531 posts)head to heads also show Biden the only possible candidate with leads outside the MoE.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)as of May 2018.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/128745690
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LakeArenal
(28,817 posts)Just like I didnt buy AlFranken fondling some womans love handle while taking a picture. Cameras rolling.
This woman is supposedly a strong woman. Turn around and tell whoever to knock it off.
Joe Biden remains the most qualified perso both nationally and globally.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Are working so hard to knock him down. Hes our best shot to take Trump out. As much as I like some of our contenders Joe is a sure thing.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
IluvPitties
(3,181 posts)We are looking for a perfect candidate while America is being run by a criminal. Joe is not perfect, but damn, his public service record is stellar. Let's put things in perspective.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kahuna7
(2,531 posts)the other campaigns will fall on deaf ears. Been there. Done that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
IluvPitties
(3,181 posts)against one of the finest public servants in recent memory.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kahuna7
(2,531 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LuvNewcastle
(16,846 posts)They love to take movements from the Left and turn them against our candidates so they can call us hypocrites. Whatever the concern is, whether it's racism, sexism, environmentalism...it's a recipe for keeping the status quo and doing nothing.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,767 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Me.
(35,454 posts)in the Anita Hill matter.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)must not have registered with him. It's not like she was accusing Thomas of rape, or even groping.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,576 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)That wouldn't be appropriate either.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emulatorloo
(44,124 posts)There were cameras there.
As for drawing false equivalencies between Biden and Thomas:
Do you mean Biden did the equivalent of
talking to Flores about well endowed Porn Stars?
telling Flores there was a pubic hair on his coke?
told Flores he had a large penis and all the huge penises he saw in porn?
told her about bestiality porn he liked?
bragged to Flores very explicitly about his sexual prowess?
repeatedly asked her out but refused to take no for an answer?
I doubt you did mean that.
Listen I promise I will stop posting to you in this thread, hope you have a good night.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)Do you have a link for that please?
Also, since Biden was standing behind her, and he is much taller and bigger, how would the mystery camera person behind them have gotten his photo? It would have been of Biden's back. The much greater likelihood is that people with cameras were waiting to catch photos of her from the front, as she walked onto the stage. Not in the dark where she was waiting just before.
You are right that what Biden did was not equivalent to what Thomas did. But having lived through the Thomas hearings should have made Biden more sensitive to personal boundaries than it appears that he is.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,576 posts)remember it that way and his pictures don't support her account, there is a picture of her just looking thrilled and happy standing next to Biden...minutes after her 'ordeal'.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)minute's worth of interaction to be noticed or photographed?
She was standing in the dark just offstage, waiting to go on for a speech. Biden came up from behind her and did his thing. Why do you think a photographer would have been back there in the dark instead of out front, near the stage, waiting to get a good shot when she went out for her speech? And why do you think her friend would have been back there? And how would anyone behind Biden, who was behind Flores, have been able to see over him to see what he was or wasn't doing to Flores? Biden would have been blocking the view of anyone standing behind him.
And after her speech she posed for the photographers and smiled with the VP who had endorsed her. IOW, she did her job! Do you think it would have helped her campaign if she had glared at Biden or told the reporters what had just happened?
It is really dispiriting to read a Democrat in the #metoo era who doesn't understand how common it is for women to mask their feelings after an incident after this -- and what the consequences could be if she didn't.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,576 posts)Photographic evidence.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)every single minute, including when they were standing in the dark, off stage. That would have been way too intrusive and distracting for a candidate who was trying to prepare herself to give a speech.
Please show me a link to other similar photos of candidates poised to go onstage and I'll consider changing my mind.
Here's a photo of Beto coming onstage. You can glimpse the dark area behind him, from which he has just emerged. That's the type of setting where Lucy says Joe kissed her. The cameras aren't back there in the dark, and there's not a lot of space to fit a lot of people. The cameras are out in front, so they can see the emerging candidate.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/beto-orourke-fundraising-record-736304/
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,576 posts)No way he sexually harassed anyone. This is ratfucking and using me too like this will destroy it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)including nuzzling the female President of Brazil on an official visit.
Kissing a person on the top of her head is a thing one does to a child -- and it is demeaning when a man does this to a woman in a professional setting. If you can point to an instance where Biden kissed a male non-relative on the top of his head, that would change my opinion.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,576 posts)no one. He is a good guy. My daughter has anxiety. She went to Youngstown to see Obama and Biden. Sandy made it so Obama could not attend so Clinton came. I worked it for the campaign. She had an attack just before the rally. Secret service would have tossed her. Biden heard me explaining that the crowds were difficult for her, he moved her into VIP seats and hugged me.." said don't worry Mom,we will see she is OK", and he did and she was. I saw him multiple times during 08 and 12, he sexually harassed no one. Now Flores worked for Sanders in 16. She has said she was aware of the sexual harrassment claims during the campaign ...this involved violence. She said nothing. I find this disgusting. Also, she is OR. I believe she is using me too politically . Women like her will destroy me too. She should be ashamed.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)And she hasn't yet said who she'd endorsing this time.
And I already said, more than once, that I don't think Biden sexually harassed Lucy Flores. He also didn't treat her as a professional should treat another professional.
And if Biden had unexpectedly come up from behind your anxious daughter, and grabbed her by the shoulders and kissed her, I doubt it would have been of much comfort in the moment.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,182 posts)This is absolutely ridiculous.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Meowmee
(5,164 posts)Whoever can win has my vote, even if they are an axe murderer and I hate them. Who knows if this even happened etc. I assume there is video of this event or it was all backstage etc.
If we wind up with a candidate who cant win we are screwed for ever.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
question everything
(47,479 posts)You should include the paragraph mentioning a "kiss" here. Many here don't like to click on each link, unless it has a video, expecting to get the main point(s) from the selected paragraph(s).
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)But as she was preparing to take the stage, she said, she felt two hands on my shoulders and froze.
Why is the vice-president of the United States touching me? she recalled wondering.
I felt him get closer to me from behind, she continued. He leaned further in and inhaled my hair. I was mortified.
Then, she added: He proceeded to plant a big slow kiss on the back of my head. My brain couldnt process what was happening. I was embarrassed. I was shocked. I was confused.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to demmiblue (Original post)
CentralMass This message was self-deleted by its author.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueFlorida
(1,532 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
NBachers
(17,110 posts)the few candidates who'll be familiar enough with our destroyed government, to actually put it back together again.
Too bad Al's not available for all the hearings that are coming up, but, what the hell, the perv deserved it , didn't he?
The sarcasm-challenged can form their own conclusions and responses.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
IluvPitties
(3,181 posts)Biden has been in the public eye for more time than millenials and GenZers have been alive and his conduct has been stellar. We need to get real here.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
onecent
(6,096 posts)Now matter WHAT YOU SAY ABOUT HIM!!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(45,084 posts)Democrats trashing talking a woman for telling how one of the most powerful men in the world touching her in an inappropriate manner that made her uncomfortable has really left a bad taste in my mouth. Disgusting.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
oasis
(49,387 posts)Period.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)If she had a complaint, she needed to make it before Biden was a challenger to HER candidate, Bernie Sanders, for whom she is a key actively working supporter in charge of some important duties.
I say "busted" on this one. And am making a mental note of who she is working for.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)Can't fool me. I've seen the pic with Sanders' hands all over her shoulders...no "in my space" complaint with HIM.
Busted.
And now I will think this for the other claims coming. And I'm sure there will be others.
There's plenty of time to hit them all with "he made me uncomfortable," and maybe even "SHE made me uncomfortable."
It's too late for Flores, anyway. That was in 2014. Biden ran for VP in 2016. If it were real, she would have complained then. Another poster said it best. It's not so much a "me, too" as it is a "you, too."
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)She didn't say she doesn't allow any men to touch her shoulders. Her complaint about Biden was that he surprised her by coming up from behind her, gripping her shoulders, sniffing her hair and planting a kiss on her head.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)I'm sure that'll come out any minute.
This is too obvious. Busted. The Gillibrands of the world may fall for manipulation, like they did with Franken accusers, but most Democrats aren't falling for it.
If it's real, it'll make sense. Happened in 2014. She would have complained before now. She would complain about all men who "have invaded my space," as she put it.
This is just ridiculous.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,242 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden