Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumElizabeth Warren brushed off Bernie Sanders and taught a master class in handling sexism
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-01-15/bernie-sanders-elizabeth-warren-women-presidents-iowa-democratic-debate?_amp=true&__twitter_impression=trueElizabeth Warren brushed off Bernie Sanders and taught a master class in handling sexism
Elizabeth Warren brushed off Bernie Sanders and taught a master class in handling sexism
APphoto_Election 2020 Debate
Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Elizabeth Warren and Sen. Bernie Sanders talk Tuesday after a Democratic presidential primary debate hosted by
As the Democratic debate in Iowa wrapped Tuesday night, Sen. Elizabeth Warren confronted the extended hand of Sen. Bernie Sanders. He was plainly after one of those no hard feelings, good game handshakes. Were cool, right?
Warren (D-Mass.) wasnt cool. Its hard to have the presence of mind to refuse the near-mandatory displays of collegiality, but she did, folding her hands. Noli me tangere. Touch me not. CNN had cut the sound by this time, but in the pantomime she seemed to be lecturing Sanders.
Its a commonplace to say that lefties shouldnt squabble among themselves, even in a primary, when its obligatory. But Warren was right to confront Sanders on Tuesday, not least because it showed shes in fighting shape for November keen, even-tempered, quick on her feet. And she addressed sexism in the campaign with imagination and subtlety. Remember, Trumps capacity for sexism was considered one of his strong suits as a candidate in 2016.
Watching the Tuesday night kabuki in slo-mo, you can see that Sanders (I-Vt.), whos notoriously irritable and suffers from cardiac issues, was riled by whatever Warren said, and by her refusal to be touched. He shook a finger at her. Then again. He seemed intent on freeing her right hand to grab it.
We all know this stock male move: Come on, baby, give me a hug; were still friends.
(More) https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-01-15/bernie-sanders-elizabeth-warren-women-presidents-iowa-democratic-debate?_amp=true&__twitter_impression=true
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)Just like every other person on that stage was doing.
I fully admit that she has every right not to shake someone's hand, but to turn this into "Come on, baby, give me a hug" from Sanders is just not right. Males and females on that stage were shaking each other's hands. That's what he went to do to her.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
wysimdnwyg
(2,232 posts)This was a LONG way from the creepy "Come on, baby, give me a hug" move the article suggests. Once again, we see the media spin something that typically would be brushed over by almost everyone as a nothing-burger into THE story from the debate. In this case, an intimation of misogyny that just isn't there.
(For the record, if Bernie DID tell Warren that "a woman can't win", I am 1000% convinced it was said out of cynicism and an understanding of the backwards beliefs of many in the electorate, rather than a personal belief that women are somehow "less". I would think many here would have to admit to some level of concern not over the worth or ability of any of our female candidates - OK, maybe one or two - but the ability for the American people to collectively get their heads out of their butts and realize that women are at least as good as men when it comes to leadership.)
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)I also agree that Bernie DID say something like that. I agree with you that it was likely in the context of how much it sucks that a woman would have so many issues be elected. I want to think that his statements of "I didn't say that" aren't trying to say that Warren is lying but that the media is making it sound like he is some sexist old guy that is saying women shouldn't be president.
But him wanting to shake her hand was not anywhere near the creepy dude thing. Not by a long shot.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BannonsLiver
(16,396 posts)He mansplained when and where she could air her grievance with him. Thats sexism. And its not limited to the right. Not by a long shot.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)But certainly Sanders has the ability to say he doesn't want to talk about it then, right? He doesn't have to be forced to talk about something when he doesn't want to. Or does he need to talk about it right then because she does want to talk about it?
And given the way the media went after him about reports of what was said, I would tend to agree that talking about it when they were both wearing hot mics was maybe not the best time. But, I support Warren wanting to talk about it then. I also support Sanders not wanting to talk about it then.
But to say that he was being sexist because he wanted to touch her is a claim that is just out of line. He went to shake her hand like everyone else was doing with everyone else. She can refuse. Absolutely. And Sanders didn't make an issue out of her refusing to shake his hand.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
NYMinute
(3,256 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)Do you agree with the article in the OP that Sanders was engaged in this:
That's my main problem with the article.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BooScout
(10,406 posts)And for the life of me, I can't figure out why so many people want us to shut up about this. Exactly when are we supposed to discuss it? Warren didn't drive the bus into the corner, this started with a scripted narrative from the Sanders campaign that backfired badly & it wasn't a plot by CNN either. Bernie owns this mess.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
yardwork
(61,650 posts)As a woman in the professional world, we're damned if we do and damned if we don't. "Be nice" and people walk all over you. Speak up and the wrath of patriarchy is rained down on our heads. We get called, um, snakes - and a whole lot of other things.
Warren handled this well. Calm, professional, but firm. Bernie had a temper tantrum.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
yardwork
(61,650 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)yesterday.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Last edited Thu Jan 16, 2020, 03:35 PM - Edit history (1)
On a different thread I said this is a tactic many women will recognize
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Bummfuzzle
(154 posts)There was nothing of that, yet that was the descriptor used. Mom or teacher. That reminds me of what Sanders thinks of teachers, btw. So predictable.
Whereas the evidence of the video shows Warren being professional. She handled it in that manner from the start. When asked by media about the script, a simple, disappointed in Sanders trashing her. He said it, with no more in the statement when asked about the comment. Asking supporters to deescalate. Then in the debate staying away from calling Sanders a liar.
Warren only stood up for herself after the debate because it was important she call him out. And even that she did her accusation gently by stating "I believe" you called me a liar leaving room for her own misinterpretation.
But Sanders was his true to form, not able to work with other, going into the defensive the huffing off the stage.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LeftTurn3623
(628 posts)the progressive wing of the party is shooting itself in the foot. The winner is Joe Biden. He has to be loving this and I do not blame him
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BooScout
(10,406 posts)Should we just be quiet and take it? Maybe we just need to learn to smile more?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LeftTurn3623
(628 posts)Who says I believe her anymore than I believe Bernie? You weren't there & I wasn't there.
Bernie wanted her to run in 2016 & when she didn't he did. Doesn't seem like someone who does not think a women can win would do.
And its not like Warren doesn't play politics. After accusing Pete of private wine cellar fund raising when she herself has private fund raising money she is using.
All I know is he denied it on stage and she did not refute it on stage
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
NYMinute
(3,256 posts)Guess who uses that defense. Think!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Wabbajack_
(1,300 posts)Preclude the possibility that Sanders is telling the truth?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
NYMinute
(3,256 posts)History is a great guide to future behavior.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Eliot Rosewater
(31,112 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TexasTowelie
(112,248 posts)Lisa had to get braces and they put in the top braces at first. The result was that she had a permanent smile and she became the most popular student at the school. She became so emboldened that she ran for class president with a lofty platform.
A week or so later, she returned to the orthodontist and had the lower braces put in. The result was that she had a permanent scowl. When it came time for the debate, she tele-conferenced her appearance and the video was tampered with so that she had a permanent smile. Unfortunately, the video feed got screwed up and the students realized that the video was altered. She ended up losing the election to the idiot student she was running against.
Your earlier comment triggered that memory.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)consists of liberals like himself who will make real progress happen as president.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aikoaiko
(34,172 posts)He offered his hand to shake -- she didn't reciprocate.
Now there is audio and we know what was said.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lark
(23,105 posts)I was proud of her. She is standing up for I told the truth and am not going to back down like a "good little woman".
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Same here....I gained a lot of respect for how she handled herself. She has class.
Sanders confirmed what I have believed about him for a long time.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Pachamama
(16,887 posts)I had been a Harris supporter from the beginning. I want a woman on the ticket and felt she was the best. I had hoped even for a Harris/Biden ticket or a Biden/Harris ticket - still am.
But for my second choice as a candidate, especially from who is left, I like Elizabeth Warren, always have. After this, she is my second choice after Biden/Harris and even for Biden to choose as a VP, although I still think Biden needs a Black Woman as his running mate. No matter what, Elizabeth Warren is a great Senator and advocate in the Senate and maybe in the future a nominee to take the place of RBS when President Biden makes a nomination to the Senate.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)they like each other and Harris is trustworthy.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)I can also agree that Sanders stood up for himself in not wanting to talk about it in "public." They both did fine, in my assessment. I don't know how all this comes out in the wash, but that exchange wasn't horrible.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
aikoaiko
(34,172 posts)I think its always a bad idea to say anything sensitive when you have potentially hot mic on.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
NYMinute
(3,256 posts)said it all.
Kudos to Senator Warren - she was presidential.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
melman
(7,681 posts)One of the most ridiculous op-eds I have ever seen. I can't believe the LA Times would even run this.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
NYMinute
(3,256 posts)Some leave me in tears from laughing hysterically at the audacious conclusions in them which defy logic.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TexasTowelie
(112,248 posts)Last edited Thu Jan 16, 2020, 06:35 PM - Edit history (1)
After the previous debate, I recall several Sanders supporters pump up the Frank Luntz focus group for the LA Times which indicated that Bernie won the debate when nearly every other media outlet said otherwise.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
melman
(7,681 posts)But I can tell you this much. There's no way in hell you ever saw me citing Frank Luntz.
If you have proof to the contrary please feel free to post it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TexasTowelie
(112,248 posts)The point that I was making was when an opinion piece favorable to Bernie appeared in the LA Times, there was a rush by some Bernie supporters to jump on the bandwagon. Now that an opinion piece by the LA Times came out that was critical of Bernie the opinion is dismissed.
It reminds of the quote about fashion on Project Runway:
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
melman
(7,681 posts)Luntz did a focus group for the LA Times and some other people liked the results..
...so that means I can't think this op-ed is crap?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TexasTowelie
(112,248 posts)You are of course welcome to have your opinion of the op-ed. Have a nice day.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to BooScout (Original post)
melman This message was self-deleted by its author.
bluedye33139
(1,474 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,321 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Boom!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)global issues?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BannonsLiver
(16,396 posts)Try to look beyond unconditional support for Sanders.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
aikoaiko
(34,172 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to Hoyt (Reply #22)
redqueen This message was self-deleted by its author.
duforsure
(11,885 posts)And thought her response to him showed she wasn't taking any crap off him after he lied. Good for her.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)..on national television, and people want to forget it? Good to see Warren address it immediately.
And even after he said they'll talk about it later and she said "alright", he STILL had to get his snarly dig in and stomp away (after being equally rude to poor Tom Steyer)
Forgotten, however, is that ill-conceived script that first was written by a few rogues, then it came out that it was used in more than one state, then they admitted it was from the campaign but "poorly worded".
Folks, the fish rots from the head.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BooScout
(10,406 posts)He looked like a puppy that had just been kicked.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bobbieinok
(12,858 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mcar
(42,334 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BooScout
(10,406 posts)...that's the overwhelming message I'm getting. We shouldn't be discussing it. Let's just pretend it never happened.
I get that Trump is the bogeyman...but I'll be damned if some man says he doesn't think a woman can't win in 2020 and then call the woman a liar about him ever saying it to begin with....and she then gets blamed for standing up for herself.
It's always the woman's fault, and we should sit down and stfu to keep the narrative nice and tidy.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mcar
(42,334 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TwilightZone
(25,471 posts)with the possibility that Sanders said it and then basically called her a liar.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
oasis
(49,389 posts)I'm sure, many other true Democrats.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redstatebluegirl
(12,265 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,307 posts)Mahalo for this, Boo
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Bummfuzzle
(154 posts)I really enjoy this Podcast. 4 guys from Obama administration. I listen to them often. I am listening to the pod after election. Their conversation is that no way Warren would have leaked this. She would not have wanted this conversation. They are saying it was probably already out there, known and reporters finally got like four sources that confirmed.
Interesting view point. You all might want to check this podcast out.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to BooScout (Original post)
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