It was a private conversation.

[Tom Rinaldo]

It was intended to be a private conversation. It should have remained a private conversation. Over the course of two hours I am willing to believe that Sanders said something that left Warren with the impression that Sanders was then pessimistic about the chances that a woman could defeat Donald Trump in 2020. This was an open and unguarded candid discussion and Sanders had every reason to believe that things said in confidence that night would not later be betrayed, and that there was no need to weigh how each word spoken that night might later be spun. I do not know if Warren decided to break their confidence, or whether that was done without authorization to a reporter by one of Warren's close confidants.

But what ended up going public was reported as a very blunt statement lacking in any nuance or context. Just on the face of it that was a low blow, because even if one believes Warren regarding the bottom line, that released statement cast Sanders in the worst possible light at a key point in the primary process. Again, giving Warren the benefit of the doubt, I still do not believe for an instant that Sanders blurted out a comment like that outside of a larger context. He once urged Warren to run for President. He believes that women can and should run for the highest offices in the land, including the presidency. Their conversation that night was focused on who could defeat Donald Trump in 2020. Two years later they may have differing recollections about was meant by what was said in which sub set of an in depth two hour long personal conversation.

I don't accuse Warren of lying, but realistically, politically, Sanders was never going to get a chance to rewind that tape and revisit the context and full true meaning of any of the words he spoke that night in private. We live in a sound bite political world. It is not an option for Sanders to now say, "Well, from a purely technical standpoint Warren may be correct about that conversation, however what her statement fails to convey was the whole of my opinions that I expressed that night, and taken out of its original context, her summary of what I said is misleading at best. It does not accurately summarize our conversation" That would not fly in today's political world. It would end up as "Sanders confirms that he does not believe a woman can win the presidency." The fact that Warren accosted Sanders after the debate into an open microphone made matters for both them even worse. Sanders was right to wave off that public conversation for a later private moment, if anything truly remains private in politics anymore.

By breaking their former personal.confidence in the way that she did, Warren publicly put Sanders into an untenable political position. If Warren was forced into this action by an unauthorized leak by one of her confidants, at the very least she should have reiterated that she knows that Sanders has been supportive of Women running for any office in the land in the past, herself included, and that she is confident that he will again in the future, but they simply differed in their assessment of the type candidate who could defeat Donald Trump in 2020.

I wish Warren at least had done that. I hope the latest news on impeachment keeps this political spat from remaining high profile in the news cycle for the next week. I don't want to see Warren trashed over this. I don't want to see Sanders trashed over this. Neither are perfect political beings incapable of making any missteps. Each of their chances at the nomination should not be disproportionately effected by this incident. This hasn't been the finest political hour for either of them but I would gladly back either of them for President should one of them become our nominee. Fundamentally I know that they both have the best interests of our nation at heart. After the current 24 hour news cycle I will not take part in prolonging this "controversy" any further.

[yardwork]

1. When two candidates for president meet to talk, it's not a "private conversation"

These weren't two friends meeting for a cozy gossip about their love lives over coffee on a rainy Sunday afternoon.

I wish people would stop with the sexism. Elizabeth Warren's campaign for president is just as legitimate as Bernie Sander's campaign.

[Tom Rinaldo]

5. It is when they agree that it is

And of course "Elizabeth Warren's campaign for president is just as legitimate as Bernie Sander's campaign."

[yardwork]

6. Apparently they don't agree.

[Demsrule86]

18. It was the script

It was him breaking their deal and going after her with the script... canvassing in early states with the script. He has only only himself to blame.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

66. You mean saying her supporters are more affluent...

... and white and holding higher degrees? It’s true and it’s hardly an attack.

In fact I seem to remember people here getting a kick out of the fact warren supporters were supposedly more educated. Now it’s an attack?

Calling someone sexist is an attack. Speaking about differences in demographics is not.

And by the way, every time someone posts a Bernie rally pic the usuals here talk about how white the crowd is. So yeah

[Demsrule86]

67. It called her an elitist...and then they lied about it...was not some lowly volunteer but a campaign

decision that had been used in canvassing.

[LanternWaste]

70. His rallies are about as diverse as a 1976 Lynyrd Skynyrd concert.

So... yeah. I guess I just attacked one of my favorite bands of my youth. Somehow.

[Midnight Writer]

71. Of course, the Sanders' campaign circulated these talking points so they could compliment Warren.

[KPN]

52. Say what? They both said it was a private conversation.

If they were the only two there, how is that not private?

And what’s with the “you people stop sexism”?

[fallout87]

54. The timing stinks...

If the details of the conversation were important to get out there, why two weeks before first caucus??

Hmmm....

[yardwork]

55. So it's ok for Sanders' campaign to launch a scripted attack on Warren in four states,

But not ok for somebody - not Warren - to bring up Sanders' sexism?

Seems like a double standard.

[fallout87]

56. Sounds like you are also seeing this

as a "Scripted attack." Call it what it is, that's all I'm saying.

[yardwork]

59. Warren didn't start this, but I'm glad she's not backing down.

At this point, I hope the Warren campaign goes even more negative on Sanders. His platform deserves some objective scrutiny. If he can't handle the criticism he doesn't belong in the Oval Office.

[fallout87]

64. Oh, so her campaign acted without her knowledge?

I have a bridge to sell you.

[yardwork]

65. I don't know if they did or not, do you?

[fallout87]

72. I believe a bit of common

sense can be applied here. Use your best judgement. She's not denying it either. Quite the opposite

[samnsara]

2. ..this is why i never watch the debates...

..dems dont need to be cutting each other.

[bluedye33139]

29. I tend to not watch the debates either. The important thing is the takeaway

And I can usually catch the takeaway from the news that evening or the following day.

Politics is an echo chamber. Things that you say now will echo back years later. Things that are said today take on new significance tomorrow. It's a mercurial and chaotic world.

[BooScout]

3. Nothing is private in politics...

And any politician worth his or her salt knows this. It is the first lesson learned.

[yardwork]

9. It's more than that. It's sexism.

When two male candidates meet to talk, it's understood that they will spar, disagree, feel out one another's strengths and weaknesses. They're rivals.

When a female candidate meets with a male candidate, suddenly it's supposed to be a cozy "private conversation" and the woman is a "snake" when she dares to disagree.

[Tom Rinaldo]

12. I concede that this incident supports your conclusion. n/t

[LexVegas]

4. Poor Bernie. I feel for him. nt

[RandySF]

7. Isn't that what some people say about the Trump 'Hollywood Access' tape?

[Tom Rinaldo]

11. But there IS a tape there. There is no doubt about the actual words spoken, or the context for them

It is all there, every word of it recorded. But having said that, no, that bus ride that Trump was taking was never intended to be a private assessment between two friends and potential rivals of how they would proceed.

[RandySF]

13. Well, it's out in the wild now.

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

8. Every one of the remaining can not be President

We see the start of each one basically trying to get rid of the others. If either Warren or Sander's were on each other's short list for vp that ended.

Politics can be cut throat and color me surprised.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

24. I have a hard time believing Warren/Sanders would pick the other for VP choice

It makes no sense on a lot of levels. They don't have significantly different geographic regions. They don't off the other a state that is in contention. They don't balance the political spectrum of the party.

They each have to know that if they get the nomination, they are going to have to get someone to the right of them for VP. Just as is it isn't one of them, the VP is going to have to be to the left of the nominee.

[thesquanderer]

32. Yet Clinton picked Gore, despite many of those same arguments. (n/t)

[BannonsLiver]

10. And sometimes those private conversations can be revealing.

I’m reminded of that Cyndi Lauper song True Colors. I thought Bernie displayed his in that moment. Mansplaining is a bad look for him.

[BeyondGeography]

14. Shit happens, the question is how best to respond

Bernie is running to be the leader of the Democratic Party. If you think gaslighting Elizabeth Warren in a debate was the right way to go, more power to you and the whole Sanders enterprise. What followed was what I warned you about last week when you switched your preference, a cascade of ugliness from his supporters, whom he does little-to-nothing to restrain, that will only harden feelings and make it more difficult to unify the party no matter who wins.

Warren can be criticized too, of course, but Bernie could have played this differently and, with a few simple tweaks, shown leadership. He could still do that, btw, and I hope Team Warren is working behind the scenes to bring this to a conclusion. But Bernie is the horse who needs to be led to water in such matters and she could be excused for thinking it isn’t worth her while.

[mopinko]

15. if he didnt know how such a comment would fall on his old friend, shame on him.

here's the thing- i am sure she heard that comment many times.
it's intended effect is to chip away at you. it's the kind of stupid comment, like asking you how your husband feels about your job, that is designed to keep women in their place.
i am sure it came as a great disappointment coming from bernie.

he might have even tossed it off w/o a real thought, or thought he couched it carefully to distinguish himself from others who say it.
but if i were in her shoes, it would have cut. and cut deeply.

i totally believe her.
i have been down that road, and so have millions of other women.

[George II]

16. It would be nice if Sanders would look at the hatchet jobs his top staffers are doing on Warren...

...on twitter, Facebook, etc.

[Tom Rinaldo]

20. We may or may not agree on definitions

But I will agree with you to this extent. His "top staffers" should not be engaging in "hatchet jobs" against Warren right now, and Sanders should work to prevent that. I reserve to right to potentially differ over what is or is not "a hatchet job". "In some cases I may well agree with you. This is an olive branch of a sorts to you. I agree Sanders is far from perfect and that is what I have to say on this subject in this thread.

I favor deescalation of tensions between our candidates.

[PatSeg]

22. What would be a good start for Bernie

is to replace some of his staffers with more reputable people. The way he runs his campaign is a preview of how he might run a White House. Yesterday, it dawned on me that until 2016, Bernie has been running campaigns in a small state of little over 600,000 people. Maybe he wasn't prepared to run a national campaign and that is reflected in some of his choices for campaign staff.

Possibly it is not too late to fix this, but if he doesn't fix it soon, the negative perceptions out there will be indelible.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

28. His top staffers were hired for the exact purpose of performing hatchet jobs on other candidates

and the Democratic Party in general. They will do nothing to help the situation and probably will make it worse. That fact by itself reflects poorly on Bernie.

[comradebillyboy]

33. There it is! Thank you for pointing it out.

[The Valley Below]

43. Why else was the notorious political dirty-trickster David Sirota hired?

"Hatchet jobs" are his specialty. That truth is not news to anyone.

Turner and Joy Gray compound the problems considerably.

There is a trust (or rather lack of trust) issue that is unresolved.

[George II]

61. I favor that, too, but unfortunately the majority of the attacks on our candidates....

...are coming out of one camp.

[George II]

73. Here's a hatchet job against Biden, all lies and totally unnecessary in a campaign:

Link to tweet

[Evergreen Emerald]

17. I am not a fan of Bernie, however in this case....

I do not believe he was saying something is wrong with women that they cannot be elected.

I believe he was commenting on the state of our nation. This nation is sexist and racist. I hope he is wrong.

[PatSeg]

23. That's kind of what I believe

but he did not handle it well. It would have been easy enough to explain that and acknowledge that it was more a misunderstanding than a slight on Warren.

[Nanjeanne]

30. That is what he said in his statement. He said He talked about Trump and his misogyny

and lies. And how he would weaponize it against a woman. Hell, even Biden talked about the sexism re Clinton and said it wouldn’t happen to him.

In the debate Sanders defended himself against a terribly worded question by CNN.

This is something that shouldn’t have happened. Warren could also have deescalated it by saying that I know Bernie and I know he doesn’t mean a woman could not be President. Neither is handling this as well as they could.

My issue is this is a private conversation that happened more than a year ago and Sanders and Warren have been friends and colleagues supporting one another. Suddenly right before a CNN debate, CNN reports on it. And suddenly Warren is upset by a supposed statement that happened a year ago. And suddenly there’s this script that is so terrible that it prompted Warren to remember this awful statement. And the terrible script? I like Warren. She’s my number 2. But her base is primarily white and well educated and she may have trouble creating wider support with poorer and working class people. Sorry but even if this script is out there - it’s not a terrible thing and certainly not an attack.

I just wish mommy and daddy would stop fighting. And I think CNN should STFU.

[PatSeg]

36. Perhaps he might have told his campaign staff

and his supporters not to go after Warren or use a snake in their tweets about her. I can buy this was just a misunderstanding, but I'm not happy with the way Sanders has treated it.

[Nanjeanne]

40. I believe Jane Sanders did that. But just like, as Bernie supporter, i never blamed

Hillary for the horrible tweets I received from her people on Twitter, people should understand that twitter is a cesspool of people on every side. And the responses I get now from Warren supporters and the neverBernie people on a daily basis. In addition, perhaps Warren should tell her supporters like Neera Tanden and Tom Watson to stop as well.

Let’s get real. This mess can be nipped in the bud if the so-called media and faux journalists spent as much time on things that actually matter to the voting public.

[Tom Rinaldo]

44. Warren is still my number two also.

The fact that she has not been more successful than she has been so far in expanding her base is a good part of why she is not my first choice currently.

[Nanjeanne]

48. Yes. She is my number 2 as well. But she has disappointed me very much and I

I hope we can move on.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

25. I hope he is wrong, too.

Though if Trump has taught me anything, it's that this country sucks a lot more than I thought it did before him.

[PatSeg]

39. I know what you mean

I am just stunned by how many people have followed him blindly, its not like he is the slightest bit charismatic. The problem isn't so much Trump, it is the many people who put him above and beyond their own self interests, the planet they live on, and their own country. I suppose, if it wasn't Trump, it would have been someone else.

[Tom Rinaldo]

41. Count me in

A woman should be able to win in 2020 and I hope nothing happens to disprove that, but i have been let down by current reality before. A black man won in 2008 and 2012, we need a female president soon. If a male wins this nomination, I expect him to pick a woman for his running mate. I like Amy too, by the way. She is currently my number three choice behind Sanders and Warren. But she has to do well in Iowa to stay viable.

[George II]

45. The state of our nation is that without outside interference we WOULD have elected a woman.

[KPN]

58. True this!

[KPN]

57. That's my sense as well. It's also my sense

that the timing on this was intended to damage Sanders campaign. Why did this come up the day before the debate? Why not two weeks ago? Why not two months ago?

This is all an effort to torpedo Sanders because he was gaining in the polls. It was campaign politics plain and simple ... with a purpose.

It’s what I’ve come to expect and has no bearing, therefore, on how I view or feel about the two candidates. I like and lean toward them both. They are my front-runners right now — though I also like Yang, Buttigieg (not totally or necessarily for policy reasons) and even Steyer. Klobuchar is extremely good as well. We have a great field. I’m ecstatic — the rest is just noise.

[MaryMagdaline]

63. I think so too

After the 2016, I myself have said, many times, that a woman cannot win the presidency. That election was a backlash against all women. The message was pretty strong that a large segment of America will not vote for a woman as president. I don't think that was Bernie saying he agrees with them, just a bit of a put-down on the American public. Like the "deplorable" remark by Hillary, he is paying for it now.

[DonaldsRump]

19. With all due respect...

Senator Sanders himself got his butt handed to him by Hillary Clinton in 2016, and she did go on to win the general election by 3 million votes. Even if Senator Sanders said something like this "as a friend" to Senator Warren, it's a wholly unreliable sentiment, and I seriously question his judgement.

A woman won in 2016 even with all the illegalities and interference. Period. Full Stop. End of Discussion. There is no reason whatsoever to think it can't happen again in 2020 or any year afterwards, Senator Sanders.

Now if only Senator Sanders would declare himself a D Senator, I might be willing to give him some benefit of doubt. He doesn't, so I won't.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

26. But she didn't win.

I know, I know, I know. But she isn't President. And perhaps all the "illegalities and interferences" that happened to keep her from it are what Sanders was talking about.

[DonaldsRump]

35. Do you seriously think Putin interfered with Hillary's win because she was a woman?

I am specifically referring to Russian interference and illegalities. Putin did it because he hated Secretary Clinton and President Obama. Not because Clinton was female.

[KPN]

60. Putin's interference campaign certainly targeted misogynists

and Christian stepford wives. It worked given the EC.

[George II]

46. If that were true that's even more sexist. "Men won't be cheated out of the Presidency, women will."

[Cuthbert Allgood]

49. So he's sexist for recognizing that the world sucks that way?

I mean, he didn't make that happen.

[beastie boy]

21. So the argument is no longer about anyone saying anything wrong, it's about getting caught.

[George II]

47. Isn't that the way it always is?

[beastie boy]

51. Often enough for me to get used to it

[MineralMan]

27. Rule No. 1: The microphone is always on!

Every politician should know that.

I used to speak for an hour and a half at a monthly PC User's Group meeting that was held in a big lecture hall at a university. To make sure everyone could hear me, I work a wireless mic that worked with the hall's sound system. It had an on/off button.

I learned the "mic is always on" thing early on. During a break, I visited the bathroom near that hall. When I returned to the lecture hall, people were laughing. I never again forgot that the microphone is always on.

[GumboYaYa]

31. I agree with this.

if this was an issue for Warren she should have said something after the meeting and not wait until she starts to fall in the polls in Iowa. It smells of political desperation. She lost my vote with the way she has handled this. I am not sure who I will vote for in the primary now.

[dansolo]

62. Or she was expecting him to not target her

I think her motivation was more in response to the underhanded tactics his campaign was pulling recently as opposed to bad polling. I think that she was willing to have a truce with Bernie, but once he broke it, the gloves came off.

[karynnj]

34. Once the story was out, it was in both their interests to deescalate

Both seem to believe 100% in their version of what happened. In fact, both of them might think they are being honest about what they are saying.I suspect the problem and why BOTH of them are angry is that both are people who pride themselves on honesty and it is their honesty that is being publicly challenged. Some have suggested that Sanders may have been speaking of the difficulty of a woman facing Trump - referencing how he treated Hillary Clinton. Note that it is not at all clear that Trump would not treat a man in an equally despicable way.

Many of us have had conversations with someone where we went away hurt at something said that we did not respond to clearly at the time. I do believe that something was said. It would have been so much better had Warren - any time after the conversation - had a private conversation with Bernie to tell him how offended she was by his comment. At which point, I would assume that Sanders would have told her he never meant that a woman could not win the Presidency. (Even better, that a woman could beat Trump.) This never should have become a public spat.

Before the debate, the word was that BOTH wanted to deescalate this. What surprises me is that knowing this would be asked, the two campaigns and the candidates could have scripted how to respond when either was asked in a way that called neither a liar and which left both looking good.

Sanders went first - so he could have set the tone better than he did. Imagine Sanders would have said he remembered what he said differently and that he thought she could win the Presidency - as could any (many) of the Democrats running. (I think he has said the latter - I know other candidates have.) This would have given him the high ground and have enabled Warren to back off - probably by thanking him and possibly adding that she was glad that the misunderstanding that had troubled her was resolved.

[BeyondGeography]

38. Warren was visibly appalled by his debate answer

The split-screen showed it. Would that he had taken the route you identified. Her scripted answer (“Bernie is my friend and I’m not here to fight with him.”) is a pretty strong indication that any olive branch offered would have been unconditionally accepted.

[Tom Rinaldo]

42. Good post. They can still deescalte this thing if they BOTH try n/t

[Mike Nelson]

37. A private conversation...

... would be held in private. I tend to agree with Elizabeth on this issue (on what Bernie said), but c'mon, she knew where she was bringing up the topic... there were cameras and mics everywhere!

[mathematic]

50. I guess we can add "executive" to the list of privileges Sanders is claiming. n/t

[MineralMan]

53. Nothing said on an open stage with a live mic is private.

The rule all people confronted with microphones is: "The mic is always live."

For Pete's sake! These people are not beginners at this...

[Happy Hoosier]

68. And given the chance to defuse the situation on live TV....

... he chose to call her a liar.

That's a choice he made.

[Maru Kitteh]

69. 1000 times this. It's a pattern with him.