The younger folks tend to support Sanders

[tiredtoo]

Talking about the 18 to 34 years old demographic. Does anyone wonder why that is? Imho it is because they see the future and are not happy with what they see under current conditions. Us older folks don't have that much future and, unfortunately, many of us do not seem to care that much about the future. The status quo is good enough.

[bucolic_frolic]

1. Younger generations have always been attracted to socialism

because they are young in life and don't have a lot of consumer goods. Universities, historically, globally, remain the hotbed of new ideas.

[George II]

14. I guess they're still used to living with their parents and having everything given to them.

[TexasTowelie]

33. +1

[squirecam]

2. I do care about the future

I don’t want to see the ever increasing debt left to future generations to deal with. Or a ruined planet.

[tiredtoo]

11. and we are in agreement. EOM

[PETRUS]

17. What's your concern about debt?

The ruined planet worry requires no elaboration, but I'm wondering if you're willing to explain the nature of your fears about debt.

[squirecam]

25. I dont think it's right

That rich people get tax cuts, or that wars are started, and put on the govt credit card, so that the children and grandchildren will be stuck with the tab.

I think the debt problems are self explanatory. Amy is the only one with a plan to deal with it.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/benritz/2020/01/15/democrats-finally-debated-the-deficit-what-did-they-say/#401e8cf757af

[PETRUS]

28. Thanks for the reply.

You clarified one thing I was wondering about, which is whether your worries were about household debt or government debt.

And no, the problems are not self-explanatory. In fact, most people get it quite wrong (i.e., it's not necessarily a "problem" at all). I don't know if you are interested in hashing it out, but if you want to know why I think scare-mongering about Federal deficits/debt is misguided and counterproductive, I'm willing to go into it. Let me know...

[squirecam]

31. Please don't spread nonsense

That it’s not a problem because the govt can simply print more $.

The deficit and debt is a problem. If it was simple, then we could just print a bunch of $, pay it off and move on. But you can’t.

[PETRUS]

32. Why do you think you have correctly anticipated my thoughts on the matter?

And right back at you - please don't spread nonsense.

[squirecam]

34. The only people

Who think debt isn’t a problem think that it’s easy to solve because we print money. It’s nonsense.

https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-default-print-money-2016-5

[PETRUS]

36. That statement is false.

There are plenty of other people who agree with me on this - among them, economists with some of the best track records at predicting real world consequences - who have more and/or different things to say about this issue.

[squirecam]

37. So I was correct.

You think we can just print $20 trillion, pay off the debt, and everything would be fine.

That is total nonsense. The real world doesn’t work that way.

See any country that has tried hyperinflation. It hasn’t worked.

https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-hyperinflation-definition-causes-and-examples-3306097

Also, trump thinks as you do. Which should be enough for you to re-examine the consequences.

[PETRUS]

39. No, you are not correct.

In fact, I went out of my way to say that there's more to it than that. Again, why are you so certain you know what I'm thinking?

[we can do it]

3. Younger folks also tend not to be bothered with voting.

[tiredtoo]

7. Not sure about you but,

I am doing everything i can physically do to get them out to vote.

[we can do it]

13. I do, but I don't single them out more than anyone else.

[tiredtoo]

21. Good on ya! EOM

[Mr.Bill]

19. They also tend to not be as informed about current events.

While we were watching Rachel Maddow interview one of Rudy's henchmen they were watching Big Bang Theory reruns.

[Agschmid]

27. Ageist comment.

[Mr.Bill]

66. Most of the millenials I know

(and I know a lot of them because I have millennial grandchildren and worked with a lot of them before I retired) can't name their Congressman or the three branches of government, but they can name every character on Game of Thrones and Harry Potter movies.

[tiredtoo]

4. So having a lot of consumer goods

is what motivates to stick with the status quo? Sad!

[highplainsdem]

5. Older folks have younger relatives they care about. And younger folks tend to be more naive and

easily swayed by unrealistic promises.

[tiredtoo]

8. Unrealistic promises?

Noting is impossible. We spend more on war than any country in the world. Let's just adjust our spending.

[brush]

6. They don't vote heavily though. That favors Biden.

[Sloumeau]

9. I know lots of older follks.

They all care about the future. Older folks are more experienced at politics. They know that no Democratic Socialist type of candidate has ever won the Presidency or even the Democratic nomination.

[tiredtoo]

12. You are not old enough to remember FDR or LBJ? EOM

[Sloumeau]

18. Neither FDR or LBJ ran as Democratic Socliaists.

LBJ ran to the right before the 1964 election by escalating Viet Nam so that he could appear more to the right than Goldwater.

FDR supported Capitalism with socialist programs, which is why he created the minimum wage and strengthened unions. It is why Social Security was paid out of wages. FDR never called himself a Socialist, and never wanted anyone else to call him a Socialist.

[tiredtoo]

23. Ljb, FDR

They all run in whatever direction needed to get elected. It is not so much how they run as what they do after getting elected.

[scheming daemons]

10. A few reasons:

1. Idealism. They believe pie-in-the-sky bullshit. We've all been there.

2. Forgiveness of college debt. They think he can actually get that done, not realizing it will never pass any congress we can imagine being in place in 2021.

3. They haven't seen first hand how Bernie-style socialism *ALWAYS* losing nationally.... and can only win in a few pockets. They weren't around to see McGovern/Mondale/Dukakis get absolutely thumped nationally after running very progressive campaigns.

[SharonClark]

26. Agree 100%

[TexasTowelie]

35. Yep. +1

[tiredtoo]

15. Pie in the sky bullshit?

Sounds like you have fallen for the republican bullshit. We Americans can accomplish anything if we put our priorities in the correct order. And you forget about FDR or LBJ?

[treestar]

67. We have to have a majority

for most changes and a supermajority for some. Dreaming is not going to do it.

[Maxheader]

16. Sanders is full of idealistic..

agendas with no way to fund them...Good social benefiting ideas but stuff costs..

[Mr.Bill]

22. There's more than one candidate

that has that problem.

[tiredtoo]

24. Check out the military expenditures and the tax cuts for the rich. EOM

[Scurrilous]

40. Bernie's plan to cut military spending - hilarious!

Exclusive: Bernie Sanders explains his plan to cut military spending

<snip>

"It doesn’t go quite like that. You have a president who makes that proposal. You have a president right now who says I want to increase military spending and you have Republicans who say that’s a great idea and, more or less; Democrats saying yeah, that’s a great idea, maybe we’ll play around the edges. But when I’m president, we’re not presenting that budget. We will present a thoughtful budget that meets the defense needs of this country without just simply supplying billions of dollars of unnecessary money to the military industrial complex.

"I would be a president who says, you know what, I want you to justify these cost overruns. Why are we spending so much? So I think we can pare back on what our needs are and at the same time not spend more as the next 10 countries combined.

https://www.vox.com/2019/5/2/18525580/bernie-sanders-plan-cut-military-spending

He's going to present his budget - it'll be a thoughtful one - then say "Why are we spending so much?" and Congress will vote for it.

Cut the military budget? It's just a slogan. Bernie has no real plan to accomplish it. Nothing. Nada. Zip.

[BootinUp]

42. Agreed. Nt

[tiredtoo]

46. Not sure if this is still going on but

A manufacturing firm in Ohio was building Abrahms tanks at 1 million each that the pentagon said they did not need or want. i will check on this and get back with more data if i find it.
Here is a link to the story it is from 2014.
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/12/18/congress-again-buys-abrams-tanks-the-army-doesnt-want.html

[Scurrilous]

54. That is exactly why it is so hard to cut the military budget.

"In some cases, Congress can act out of purely parochial interests."

And those parochial interests will make each and every cut a major battle in Congress.

Look at these lines from the boondoggle that was the B-1 bomber (Carter killed it, Reagan brought it back):

"Opposition to the plan was widespread within Congress." "The USAF spread production subcontracts across many congressional districts, making the aircraft more popular on Capitol Hill."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockwell_B-1_Lancer

LOL And that is how they do it.

No politician is immune. See Bernie and the F-35.

Antiwar candidate Bernie Sanders faces backlash over the $1.2 trillion war machine he brought to Vermont

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/10/bernie-sanders-faces-backlash-over-war-machine-he-brought-to-vermont.html

[tiredtoo]

60. Sometimes to make progress

You have to do "Hard" things.

[Mr.Bill]

55. One must also consider

how many people are employed by the military budget. Over the decades it has become the federal government's number one jobs program. It took a long time to go down this wrong path, and although it needs to be changed, it would be economically catastrophic to cut it off overnight.

I think our main objective should be to improve health care and education. Our military personnel often leave the military without good marketable skills. We can keep putting money into the Pentagon, but task them with training more medical professionals and educators at all levels. They already do this, so they know how. Just get them to do more of it.

[Scurrilous]

56. ...

[tiredtoo]

59. Like i said earlier

We live in an economy based on war. Eisenhower warned us of this many years ago. We have to change our priorities. One should not expect a complete turn around, this change will take years. The sooner we start it the sooner we get it done. Do it NOW!

[booley]

20. Uhmm Yeah

Personally I think this obsession with maintaining some status quo is dangerous.

[Mr.Bill]

29. So do you just want to get rid of everything and start over?

Everyone, whether they realize it or not is dependent on something that is part of the status quo. Most things need to be improved, sure, but some things are working pretty well.

[tiredtoo]

49. No no no

I just want to change direction. This country has been moving to the right since Saint Ronnie fired the air traffic controllers. Today's "establishment" Democrats are further right than Dwight D Eisenhower was.
Working well? The American worker has not received a real raise in the last 30 years.
Working well for the 1 percent the rest of us are just hanging on.

[mathematic]

30. "workplace democracy" sounds like a great idea until you meet your coworkers

I guess I'm only slightly kidding.

[myohmy2]

38. "Does anyone wonder why that is?"

...it's because Bernie's the only candidate that's strongly addressing the mess we're leaving them...

...Bernie has the best and most consistent record of fighting for the American people...

...they know he has the best solutions to solve their problems...

...they know he has their back and can't be bought...

...they won't fooled any longer...

[yardwork]

41. So why are you supporting Warren?

Warren's platform is certainly not the status quo.

[tiredtoo]

44. I am supporting Warren for that reason.

"Warren's platform is certainly not the status quo".

[yardwork]

45. I don't understand your OP then.

[tiredtoo]

48. "The status quo is good enough"

That quote was referring to the folks that accept current conditions. hope this is explanation enough.

[Drunken Irishman]

43. I fit the Bernie demographic.

I am white.
I am male.
I am a Millennial.

I would wager there's a good chance if you looked at demographics, the biggest support for Bernie comes from at least two of those groups (white & Millennial). That's not to say he lacks minority support, because he doesn't, but even in 2016, he consistently did worse head-to-head with Hillary with older voters, female voters and minority voters.

Most my age group is pretty dang liberal. They believe in abortion. Drug legalization. Universal healthcare. Debt forgiveness. No intervention and a rebuke of the status quo.

They also rarely vote - or don't vote consistently.

Which, as we've seen, has been the story for most every election.

In 2015, I stood in line to caucus in my state, at one of only a handful of caucus sites, for three-plus hours. None of those same friends did.

Bernie won my caucus but turnout was significantly lower than in 2008, the last time there was a competitive Democratic primary (Obama won with 57% of the vote).

In 2016, roughly 77,000 votes were cast.

In 2008, Obama won 78,538 votes on his own - with a total of 130,629‬ votes cast. That's a significant drop overall, and doesn't even account for the increase in potential voters in the 8 years between elections.

But like I said, a good amount of my friends didn't vote in the primary. They had their Bernie bumper sticker. They had their Bernie Facebook photo but they didn't vote.

I voted, though. Even though I wasn't a huge fan of Hillary.

Why do I not support Bernie? Because I feel my idealism was cooled under Barack Obama. I saw the harsh realities of how Washington works and frankly, I don't believe for one second Bernie has an actual plan to pass his agenda. And, sadly, I also don't think Bernie is pragmatic enough to get a deal done if he doesn't get all he wants.

That type of mentality will only worsen the situation.

I think it's a valid question to ask Bernie if it's Medicare 4 All or Bust.

If it's bust - then what?

That's one thing I've yet to hear from him. If you can't get M4A passed, what steps do you take to shore up the ACA? Does Bernie even have a plan to do that? I don't think he does - or will. And that's my concern.

My friends? They believe Bernie can get M4A pushed through even a GOP congress. I don't know why they think it but they do. That's great. But they don't really have an answer as to why he hasn't been able to do it despite being a senator now for over a decade.

What changes if he becomes president?

I think political idealism is a great thing but the problem with these 18 to 34 year old voters is that it's all or nothing a lot of the time. Well that approach, unfortunately, hasn't gotten us anywhere.

Our greatest leaders compromised to get what they needed passed.

FDR compromised with Social Security. The original act only allowed retirement benefits and only to those who worked.

JFK initially envisioned Medicare to cover ALL Americans but it was only passed as a health plan that covered seniors.

LBJ compromised on the Civil Rights Act by not require Affirmative Action to help level the playing field (among many other small compromises).

We saw it with the USMCA. Sanders voted no. Okay. Does he think he'd get a better deal?

That's why, despite agreeing with Bernie on most issues, I will never vote for him in the primary. No more than I'd vote for myself. Why? Because I think we need someone in the White House that doesn't cut his nose off to spite his face and, sadly, I think we'd get that with Sanders. I don't think he has any intention of being pragmatic and I guess that's why people love him. But at the end of the day, what good is that view if, four years from now, Sanders has not delivered on any major campaign promise?

[tiredtoo]

50. Good post thank you

A couple things. My idealism was also cooled under Obama. He came in offering Hope and change, I am still hoping for the change. I think all presidents, except the current idiot, get their goals accomplished with compromises. I would expect Bernie or Elizabeth would be smart enough to understand this. I don't expect him or her to accomplish all there goals, I expect them to move us in the right direction. This changing America is a marathon it is not a sprint.
In Obama's defense his first two years were spent getting us out of Bush's mess and after that he had to fight with McConnell's Senate.

[Drunken Irishman]

58. I see more from Warren that gives me belief she would be pragmatic.

I don't see it from Bernie, unfortunately. Though, to be fair, he has compromised in his vote. He did vote for the ACA. He did vote for a bulk of Obama's agenda. But I am not sold on him proposing alternatives when his initial legislation dies on the floor of the House or Senate.

[Scurrilous]

65. Great post.

"I don't believe for one second Bernie has an actual plan to pass his agenda."

He doesn't. Tax hikes and cuts to the military budget won't come easy...or at all. But this is what we get:



The cost of Sanders' agenda would set a peacetime US record

<snip>

"While the new spending programs Sen. Bernie Sanders has proposed in his presidential campaign would at least double federal spending over the next decade, he has faced almost no questions from other candidates or the media -- on the eve of the last debate before primary voting begins -- about how he would implement or finance such a massive increase.

The Vermont independent's agenda represents an expansion of government's cost and size unprecedented since World War II, according to estimates from his own website and projections by a wide variety of fiscal experts.

Sanders' plan, though all of its costs cannot be precisely quantified, would increase government spending as a share of the economy far more than the New Deal under President Franklin Roosevelt, the Great Society under Lyndon Johnson or the agenda proposed by any recent Democratic presidential nominee, including liberal George McGovern in 1972, according to a historical analysis shared with CNN by Larry Summers, the former chief White House economic adviser for Barack Obama and treasury secretary for Bill Clinton.

Sanders' plan would also increase the size of government far more than any modern Republican president, including Ronald Reagan, has sought to cut it, Summers' analysis concluded."

<snip>

"Multiple officials at Sanders' campaign did not respond to requests for comments on the scope of his agenda or their own estimates of its cost. In an interview earlier this year, one top Sanders aide said the candidate's proposed cumulative increase in government's size "is not something we are discussing in the scope of the campaign."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/14/politics/bernie-sanders-proposals-cost/index.html

[Autumn]

47. If Bernie doesn't win the nomination I believe the nominee must reach out to them and give

a reason to vote for them.

[Kurt V.]

51. i talk to them all the time. They're well aware of the challenges coming

[dewsgirl]

52. My son is 22 and just old enough to vote in 2016.

He has been a hardcore BS supporter since 2016. He is in the Air Force and his friends and my DIL all feel the same way.
He even jokes around with me and says, you didn't support Bernie before(I'm not 100 percent for Bernie now, I do like him more than in 2016). Of course I would support Hillary again, if she was running.

[Loki Liesmith]

53. Yeah this isn't an actual argument

[leftieNanner]

57. My daughter is 28, wicked smart, and dialed in

And she can't stand Bernie.

So I don't think you can make a blanket assumption here about that age group.

[tiredtoo]

62. I did not make a blanket assumption

I said Tend to support Bernie.

[NYMinute]

61. Free tuition is the reason

It is always about money

[tiredtoo]

63. it is always about money

Perhaps, but free tuition would be a good idea IMHO.

[NYMinute]

68. I don't think it should be free

Perhaps all loans should be at 0% interest if paid on time
A 60% credit on principal if the student gets an A average
A 40% credit for B average
A 20% credit for C average

This way, serious students will benefit and tax dollars won't support frat parties.

This way, if a student borrows 100K and gets n A average , he/she will owe only $40000 with no interest if payments are made on time.

[tiredtoo]

69. ok fine

I just want us to start moving in a direction where working class people have a shot at getting the brass ring.