Evidence that most independents are centrists, not socialist progressives like Bernie:

[pnwmom]

According to 538, only 43% of independents support removing Trump from office. In this position, they occupy a middle ground between R's (8%) and D's (84%).

So the idea that a good way to get more centrist votes is to nominate a socialist seems unlikely to me.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/impeachment-polls/?ex_cid=rrpromo

[JoeOtterbein]

1. Please tell me everyone here supports removing Trump from office!!!!

And are not "centrists".

PLEASE!!!!!!

[pnwmom]

2. My post is about independents, not Democrats on DU. It matters because

the general election will include more independents than members of either party. Hopefully the majority of them will vote for the Democrat -- but our choice of a nominee will help determine that.

[JoeOtterbein]

5. Ok, but to be sure, you think we need to appeal to "centrists" Indies to win in Nov?

If so, I disagree. I think we need to motivate new voters by inspiring them with issues that will help them directly. Like MFA.

[redstateblues]

9. MFA is a General Election loser. The only sure thing about it

Is it will raise taxes. It’s not polling well.

[Perseus]

10. yeah right, because "people love their insurances"

Please...I don't know anyone who "loves their insurance", they are grateful their employer pays a chunk of it, but that is a far cry from "loving your insurance".

We do know that "people love their insurance" is a meme put out by the insurance companies and republicans, right?

[redstateblues]

23. So we just throw everything out and start with an unknown plan.

I’m sure all the union members would vote for that. NOT

[brooklynite]

26. ENOUGH people (whom you don't know) like their insurance. I like MY Insurance

Given the choice I would not reflexively switch to the public option.

[c-rational]

31. Do you know how much your insurance costs per year? Does it prevent you from considering

changing jobs or relocating?

[brooklynite]

32. I'm 60 years old and can retire when I want to...

...and my insurance carries over into retirement for life. I’m a State employee with a very generous plan. But the same principle apples to Unions. Sanders can’t go into Michigan and tell the UAW that the plan thEy negotiated will be taken away.

[squirecam]

30. You can scream all you want

About insurers. Poll after poll after poll says voters want to keep private insurance.

You can argue why that is....but it’s still a fact.

[JoeOtterbein]

11. Big money corporations...

...convinced many who need MFA to give up!

[redstateblues]

24. Those dang straw men again.

[JoeOtterbein]

25. Wow, I did not know that "straw men" were worth...

...billions of bucks!

Where do I sign up to be a straw man?

[redstateblues]

33. I always chuckle when faceless,nameless, corporate billionaire boogie men are invoked

It’s the “go to” villain for many on this site

[Thekaspervote]

21. Yes here's some eye popping numbers that prove that... maybe you should reconsider

Voters are fairly clear about what they would like from a Democrat. They prefer, by 82% to 11%, one who promises to find common ground over one who promises to fight for a progressive agenda; and they prefer a moderate over a liberal, 75% to 19%.


They support Biden over the president, 38% to 27%, but prefer the president to Warren, 37% to 20%. Sanders is in between, with the president leading him, 34% to 32%. This group voted for Trump by a smaller margin in 2016, 37% to 30%, with the rest casting ballots for minor candidates.


https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287336368#post2

The Democratic Party is center left. Reasonable individuals want reasonable workable solutions, not rash divisive policies that please only a few.

NYT/Sienna link does not work within the post but it is searchable

[LanternWaste]

35. I think it's narrow-minded to believe one can only be done at the expense of the other.

We can appeal to centrists AND motivate new voters... the one doesn't deny the other.

[Cha]

3. KR!

[Demsrule86]

4. Good point.

It worries me that they are not for impeachment mostly though...we need them to vote for our nominee.K&R

[garybeck]

6. we heard the same thing about Trump

he could never get elected because he is too extreme.

yada yada.

if bernie gets the nomination, we'll see what happens. a very similar thing to when trump got the nomination 4 years ago, that's my guess.

[Demsrule86]

8. No, we lose 35 states ...it will be a blow out...Trump said shit that the the blue wall states

wanted to hear...fix manufacturing...yada yada. He ran as a populist. Sander won't be able to connect especially after the attacks begin. He was never vetted so some will be new to folks...It will probably be as bad as McGovern and Dukakis. Trump wins an EC victory and the worst case scenario is we might lose the house and fail to regain the Senate...imagine Trump in complete control. It could happen if we nominate a candidate who can't win a general and endangers the house.

[rpannier]

13. If you say so

And what were your predictions for 2016?
Presidency and the U.S. senate.
Because, unless you were correct there, your predictions are no better than anyone else

[pnwmom]

16. I think Warren would have a better chance than Sanders.

She, at least, works well with others. She's not perceived as rigid and she hasn't been trying to alienate the DNC.

And she identifies as a person who believes in well-regulated capitalism; she doesn't call herself a socialist.

[Demsrule86]

19. I agree. She is my second choice.

[Demsrule86]

18. I was up and down...but consider we did win in 2016...

The polling in Virginia shows only Biden beating Trump ...Virginia.

[NiteOwl1]

7. Doesn't quite match the polling I saw...

but I agree with the premise. In reality most Americans are moderate and have some issues on which they lean left and some right.

Unfortunately for Bernie, Bill Clinton had it right. The nation leans center right (the Trump dictatorship may change that) and that Dems have to run in the middle or a little to the right to win.

I don't think much has really changed in that. I do believe in the long term there will be a shift more to the left.

We are witnessing the death knell of the "Old White Men" government... and I believe that they see this as their last chance to control government.... by changing its very nature from a true democratic republic to a nation where they can maintain control by giving the Executive branch more power and working to keep the Senate to maintain that grip. IMHO that is why they are willing to let Trump take the party that direction. They fear the day that they (white males) lose power... and that is exemplified by the actions of Trump in all that he does... MAGA =make sure America remains under the control of old white men.

[pnwmom]

15. Probably because 538 reports on a conglomeration of poll results. It wouldn't have

to match any particular poll.

[rpannier]

12. Most centrists view themselves as the center

Meaning they start with they as the center and everyone else veers off from them
This poll by 538 merely gauges where affiliated (or unaffiliated) people stand on impeachment

[pnwmom]

14. So they are unlikely to vote for someone they perceive as more extreme than

the opponent on the other side.

[rpannier]

17. Yours is a valid point

538 still doesn't identify what makes them centrist
538 lists independents (not centrists) as being about 48-49% for impeachment
It does not identify them as centrist, you have labeled them as such
How did you determine they are centrist?

[pnwmom]

20. It they were far-left people like Bernie, why wouldn't they support Trump's impeachment,

like he does, and like AOC and other people who identify as socialists?

The only people who support Trump seem to be R's or rightwing libertarians like Rand Paul.

[Thekaspervote]

22. Thank you for posting. Dems really are down to earth people that want down to earth policies

This is why we... the Dems have been the ones to make this country really work. Far left is just that, too radical. A diverse country like ours cannot run on radical policies

[David__77]

27. It doesn't take a majority of ideologically committed people to win.

It never has. Using power requires leadership, not just tailing or blowing with the wind.

[pnwmom]

28. That's true. But we need some moderates and even some centrists and they're less likely

to vote for a Dem they view as extreme.

[David__77]

29. Maybe... maybe not.

Just for instance, Obama’s victory was not a matter of positing himself as either “centrist” or “moderate.”

If the goal to win Trumps past or would-be voters I’m not sure what’s traditionally conceived of as “moderate” is the best approach, purely from a tactical perspective.

[pnwmom]

34. I think Bernie's big mistake is to insist on a label that is so divisive, and not even really

accurate.

He insists on calling himself a "socialist" -- a very divisive term. But he lauds the policies of the Social Democrats in the Scandinavian countries -- which are well-regulated capitalist countries.

I think his use of a term associated with the Soviet Union and Nazi germany hurts him unnecessarily, and it would handicap him in the general election