Biden Advisers Smell a Conspiracy

[DonViejo]

April 2, 2019 at 6:56 am EDT By Taegan Goddard

“Joe Biden advisers believe coverage of allegations of inappropriate behavior is being stoked by rival Democrats — a dynamic that could actually fire up the vice president at a time when others see success as increasingly improbable,” Axios reports.

“Several around Biden think advisers to Bernie Sanders are at least partly behind the anti-Biden campaign. One prominent backer thinks Biden will run, and ‘is ready to kill Bernie.'”

Said one source close to Biden: “VP directed staff this evening to reach out to supporters and donors with a simple message — full steam ahead.”

###

https://politicalwire.com/2019/04/02/biden-advisers-smell-a-conspiracy/

[HopeAgain]

1. Upon what

evidence are we going to blame Bernie? Or is that the most efficacious choice?

[louis c]

18. Flores sat on the board of "Our Revolution"...

...and did not come forward for 5 years after she felt "uncomfortable".

Flores also admitted in a recent interview that her coming forward now is "political".

And, it fits into the BS narrative that his supporters would rather burn down the Democratic party and it's nominee (whoever it turns out to be) if BS doesn't get the nomination.

If you are only a Democrat for the few months that you run in the presidential primary, it is no wonder you have no loyalty to the party.

[Perrenial Voter]

34. Yeah, but that BS Narrartive doesn't concide with the facts. If Bernie wanted to damage the

Democratic Party, he could have started a third party or run on the Green Party. He would have lost, of course, but Clinton would not have had a chance, because he would have been pulling votes from her, rather than from Trump. There were plenty people--and not just his supporters--who wanted him to do this. But he didn't.
Despite his rhetoric about revolution, Sanders is a reformer not revolutionary.

[louis c]

49. It's not so much as Bernie, personally, wanting to destroy the Democratic party...

...it's a substantial amount of his supporters who do, unless it conforms to their way of thinking and one of their candidates.

I'm for Biden because I'm practical. We need to carry Penn, Wisc, and Mich. Biden does that. Those unreliable BS voters can't stop us by sitting out or voting 3rd party. We can win by bringing back the voters who voted for Obama in 2008 and then for Trump in 2016. I estimate that's about 5% of the overall vote. Bernie is less likely do that.

Bernie is more practical than his disloyal supporters (about 25%, by my unscientific estimate). He doesn't want his place in history to be the guy responsible for Trump, but a large portion (by no means a majority) of his supporters couldn't give two shits. They'd rather see Trump, hoping there's chaos and they'll be around to pick up the pieces.

Or, like 2016, be part of a self-fulfilling prophecy to help make the Dem nominee lose and then say "look, I told you so."

[Perrenial Voter]

89. I do understand the appeal of Biden because

he is good at talking to white working class voters (e.g., in Ohio, Pennsylvania). He also is not a Senator, which from my perspective is a plus, because I'm hoping that the Senate can be flipped.

With regard to Bernie's followers, I think there are a lot of young people among them who haven't identified with any party, and many think that, as a generation, they are being screwed and they are angry about it. It is true that a lot of them were pushing for a third party candidate, but, as Bernie tried to tell them, that just doesn't work in our system I met a lot of them outside the DNC, and the consensus among them was if they were in a state with a close race, they would vote for Clinton; if she had a sizeable margin, the would offer some kind of protest vote; and they would always vote for Democratic Senate candidates; congressional candidates were regarded as a more local matter, whereas the Senate was viewed as a backstop against a potential Trump victory. Obviously they couldn't see into the future.

[louis c]

103. Wow, what a very thoughtful post from a Bernie supporter...

...you see it exactly as I do. Not all Bernie supporters get it, especially the very young. But I couldn't agree with you more on your assessment.

[Eliot Rosewater]

127. Nope, he sees the D's as a bigger obstacle to his agenda than the R's....simple reaslly

[pangaia]

77. This is not a comment for or against Sanders.

But,
he wanted to WIN and wants to WIN.

If he ran/runs as an independent, no way could he win...

[samnsara]

143. it was his minions that caused the most damage to HRC by calling her a 'coorporate whore'...

...to a crowd of 20,000 screaming bs followers...by tossing dollar bills in front of her motorcade..by bullying HRC voters at the local caucuses. BS doesnt have to be involved directly to inflict damage...kinda like Trumps mo...then they can say their hands are 'clean'

[Hortensis]

47. Yes. 2016 redux. And now a lot of journalists are reporting

instead of burying information about him as they did in 2015-16.

A big part of this is probably that polls report Biden is drawing more strong liberals who identify as "progressives" than Sanders is. A good sign for 2020, but not for Sanders's own survival as a pretend-viable candidate through Super Tuesday. Not that he'll ever withdraw, of course.

As for other motives, of course a lot of people who've been around him have talked, not nearly as badly as those around Trump but still too much to keep hidden what Sanders really needs to. I suspect he himself doesn't blab to anyone. I've looked for but never heard what whatever goals or desires he keeps secret might be, but his behaviors suggest huge unknowns drive his decisions. He dealt a dreadful blow to progressivism in 2016, and of course to liberalism and to the plans of all the factions in the great Democratic coalition, and he is currently heading for a repeat in 2020.

[Stellar]

48. So no independent thought wanted?

Just walk lock step with what ever the majority want, just like the Republicans are doing?

[louis c]

55. If that's what it takes to defeat Hitler, ya

You call it "walking lock step", I call it unity and loyalty, two things you need for victory. You know, unity and loyalty, something most Sanders' supporters are unfamiliar with.

[calimary]

95. THIS.

We MUST hang together or we, and all the rest of America (and maybe also the habitable world), will hang. Period.

[louis c]

98. That phrase didn't work with Benedict Arnold, and it probably won't work with BS supporters

[emulatorloo]

65. Hi Stellar, independent thinker here. There are times when everyone must gather together and

focus on the big picture. The primary is the time when we can agree and disagree about policy candidates etc.

Come the general we are united. I will bitch and moan about dif candidates in the primary.

But when we have our nominee, whoever it is, i’ll sing his or her praises. I’ll knock doors and GOTV even if my fingers are broken. I will do everything I can to put a good Democrat in the White House, take the Senate and retain the House.

This is what we do.

[Stellar]

91. Awww...

I'm 74yrs old and I've done just that all my voting age life, so thank you for that. There were times I had to hold my nose, but I am a dedicated responsible Democrat and I will never give up on my party.

[louis c]

99. Thanks for being one of the few BS supoporters who gets it...

...because there aren't many 74 year old BS supporters.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

133. Abso-fuckin-lutely!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[LanternWaste]

92. I too think that believing 2+24 is evidence of a lack of independent thought.

Since so many believe it to be so, let's you and I be the thought-rebels and tell everyone it in fact, equals five... so as to better avoid walking in lock-step.

[Stellar]

93. hear, hear!

[Cha]

114. No worries.. there aren't any

Democrats here "walking in lockstep". That's an ugly accusation to compare us to the "republicons walking in lockstep" and ridiculous on its face.

[calimary]

124. True enough, Cha.

[Cha]

125. Mahalo, calimary. I hate that accusation of "lockstep"

for Dems.. Dems think for themselves.

[Demsrule86]

161. I heard this in 16 and we lost.

[DownriverDem]

27. Think about it

Who is behind this? Biden can win middle America. Without middle America the Dems will lose.

[HopeAgain]

76. Wow ... Beyond a Reasonable Doubt

"Think about it" IS conclusive evidence of guilt!



I'm not even planning on voting for Sanders, but it is annoying to see deomocratic conspiracy theorists.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

132. Could say a lot more... but, better left unsaid

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[emulatorloo]

74. I believe Flores. That being said, when a campaign has just hired Stein supporters at the top level

Including one who made very very dishonest attacks on Beto, it doesn’t surprise me that some here might go hmm

I like most all of our candidates, any one who wins the nomination will make a great President

[Demsrule86]

162. I agree. All of our candidates would be great but who can win?

[LanternWaste]

90. That's quite a leap...

from Biden's advisers to merely thinking it may be Sanders to you narrating it as assigning blame.

Efficacious, indeed.

[HopeAgain]

100. So you think saying it "may" be

that person, with no evidence is responsible?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

128. Who needs evidence when it comes to going after Bernie?! After all, it's Bernie!!

There seems to be no end to this constant blaming of Bernie for anything and everything.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[olegramps]

142. I have one question for Sanders supporters:

Please explain to me the difference between Sanders and Trumps policies on tariffs and trade agreements. Also explain to me how ineffective his proposals have been in achieving any results as a representative in congress. Two post offices named and one veteran bill. I don't count bills as a co-sponsor being an effective legislator. It my be comforting to some that someone proposes bills to get everyone a pony, but it isn't very effective. Maybe I just don't understand it. But I support those who are loyal Democrats and belong to the party because they support its ideals and work to make the party and its candidates effective legislators. If a person supports Sanders, then fine that is their decision. But I will stick with good old faithful Democrats.

[HopeAgain]

164. Not sure why you tagged my thread for this

I am not a Sanders supporter, I just hate conspiracy theories (that Bernie is responsible for the allegations against Biden) on the left as much as the right.

[olegramps]

166. I didn't mean to be critical of your post, just added conversation.

Sanders was against the TPP trade agreement. Yet it would have eliminated 18,000 tariffs. It open up the opportunity for China to take the lead and they are quickly establishing trade agreements with several countries. Democrats who support Sanders, in my estimation are poorly informed. He spews the same line as Trump and in my opinion cost Clinton the election. She was running against a candidate in her own party that was parroting this same crap as her Republican opponent. I agree with Michael Moore when he saw him enter the campaign, that Trump was assured the White House.

[WeekiWater]

2. Solid move making these few statements.

I was thinking Biden could wait until May but I think his time is now.

Sanders is going scorched earth. I expect to see he and his surrogates pull something like this immediately before he releases his taxes.

Biden, if you are in, it’s time to move. If you are not, it’s time to get out of our fields way.

I didn’t want Biden to run. My reasons for that have nothing to do with his patriarchal tendencies. These attacks that seem to be clearly coordinated by the right and the Sanders campaign have me wanting Biden to come out swinging.

Biden is a good man and these attacks piss me off. The #metoo movement is righteous in nature and these people are doing great harm to it. It’s time to crush the immorality that was pervasive in Sanders last campaign and is continuing today.

[calimary]

96. IF he releases his taxes. ASSUMING he sees the light and does.

I hope he does. He BETTER.

[AlexSFCA]

3. Sanders will stop at nothing

In 2016 he was a long shot. In 2020, he is determined to win at all costs.

[Kahuna7]

5. Sanders yes. But it's not just his supporters...The CT woman's

agenda appears to see a woman elected. I don't know which one.

[highplainsdem]

6. That CT woman is probably hurting female candidates more than helping them, with

her attack on Biden. She's basically suggesting that all male candidates should step aside or women will come forward and try to smear them with unbelievable stories of bad behavior years ago. That sort of attack makes women look worse, not better.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

131. Maybe Elizabeth is behind this?! She and Bernie working in tandem?!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[BannonsLiver]

168. Where are Bernie's taxes?

Why is he hiding them from the public? Why doesn’t he respect our traditions and norms? When did you decide you were okay with that?

[sheshe2]

110. "In 2020, he is determined to win at all costs"

That's what frightens me...I would say more, but can't.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

130. Puhleeease... you.can.NOT.be.serious!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Kahuna7]

4. Fight Joe, Fight. Love Trumps hate. nt

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. So do I.

It's good that he's not backing down; the more I see of this bullshit - which doesn't help #MeToo at all - the more I want to see Biden declare officially and fight back, and the sooner the better. Somebody has an agenda and it has nothing to do with #MeToo.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. I posted it weeks ago

Bernie and Biden will attack one another and a third candidate will be the beneficiary.

[floppyboo]

11. Neither Biden or Sanders have done this.

And I truly believe both of them are above that.

[Mc Mike]

16. Repuglican Rove style effort to fracture the opposition.

[BlueFlorida]

17. You don't know Joe Biden n/t

[elleng]

19. I agree.

[louis c]

20. Not BS? His supporters are very capable of this...

...they have no loyalty to the Democratic Party.

[Autumn]

75. Really? I've been a very loyal Democrat all my life and I'm a Sanders supporter.

I don't trash Democrats or their allies. It sad that so many supporters of other candidates do.

[louis c]

97. Every one of my posts say many, not all...

...but it has been my experience that more than half the BS supporters I meet will trash the Democratic Party if Bernie doesn't get the nomination, just like they did in 2016.

BS may be an ally, but he is not a "trusted ally".

[Autumn]

107. I trust Bernie as much as I trust any Democrat and more than many of them. Funny,

I don't see the word many, not all... in your post that I responded to.

louis c (8,223 posts)

20. Not BS? His supporters are very capable of this...

...they have no loyalty to the Democratic Party.

[louis c]

136. It was the one post I left out "many"...

….Of course you trust BS more than most Democrats.

He's an "occasional" Democrat. And that occasion is to try to get the nomination, or destroy the party trying.

[Autumn]

137. If Bernie can destroy the party because some Dems support him and his message, the

Democratic party is in deep trouble. There are 16 people running including him. The idea that he is destroying the party is laughable. By the way, the search function works. This is not the one post where you left out the word "many" or "some" when talking about Sanders supporters.

It was Sanders's voters who stayed home, voted 3rd party or wrote in in 2016

just like many long time Republicans are horrified that Trump hijacked their party, I feel the same way about Sanders and his supporters.

that's just 2 that came up in my search.

[louis c]

144. Bernie's not a Democrat, by his own admission...

...he's a Socialist, by his own admission.

BS won the Democratic Primary in 2018 for the Senate in Vermont, and refused the endorsement. You would think if he was going to seek the Democratic Party Presidential Nomination one year later, he would have at least accepted the Democratic nomination in VT for Sen. That was the last straw for me. That was a slap in the face to the party. That action spoke volumes.

I know he caucuses with Dems in the Senate. Big deal. What's he going to do, caucus with the Repukes? If he refuses to caucus with either party, he gets on no committees. He uses the Democratic party for his own purposes, and contributes little or nothing to its strength.

Look at all the Sanders supporters who were successful in winning congressional seats. They all beat Democratic incumbents or won safe, open seats. They added nothing to our overall number.

We won the House with moderates taking Republican seats. None of them are Sanders supporters.

The best description I can give of Sanders and far too many his supporters is they act like the tea party of the left.

[Autumn]

145. I'm not interested in your deflection, so I won't even bother to read it. I've poved to

you that you don't always use the words "some or many" when you talk about Sanders supporters. I think you and I have nothing more to discuss.

[louis c]

147. Who cares? sometimes I use many, other times I unintentionally leave it out...

...any normal person would understand that "many" is understood. "All" of any group never occurs.

[Cha]

118. Yes, of course, too many of them "trash the Democratic Party"..

they're all over twitter with their little insult, Buzzwords' nonsense.

[George II]

23. What is this "Biden OR Sanders"? Have there been similar revelations about Sanders? No...

...neither Biden nor his campaign nor his supporters have done anything like this. Yes, this is a situation of Sanders not having done it, but we can't rule out that David Sirota was behind it.

Harry Truman had an expression for it.

[Renew Deal]

171. Sanders lets his campaign do the dirty work

[floppyboo]

9. I am not blaming Sanders. This is turning into an attack on his campaign

I unfortunately understand why Bernie is being blamed, but it doesn't follow logic.

This complaint from Flores, which she herself says doesn't rise to the level of sexual assault/harassment (I forget the term used) isn't worthy of the news cycle today. WHY is the media making a big deal about it? Why talk about this? Who does it serve?

Not Sanders, that's for sure. Sanders who has also been criticized for not jumping on the identity politics bandwagon. Sanders, who does not traffic in negative politics.

Give me a good reason why Sanders' campaign would be behind this, given that the second choice of Biden supporters go to Sanders.

[BlueFlorida]

21. I disagree with you

There is no way Lucy Flores would have come forward without clearing up with the campaign. It at least went to David Sirota level if not higher.

People are not stupid. The timing was incredibly suspicious.

[floppyboo]

29. Does she currently work with his campaign?

I thought she was supporting O'Rourke. At least, she was at his last rally. You see, that's a really bad example on my part. What kind of association does she have Today?

[BlueFlorida]

53. She could be on undercover assignment

to spy on Beto and still working for Bernie. It is far more likely because Bernie camp is scared of Beto and his magical effect on millennials.

She was a higher up in Bernie circles -- a director of OR. She was not some low level employee.

[floppyboo]

63. You forgot the sarcasm emoji

[Demsrule86]

163. We have no idea. Sirota was with the campaign before it was announced . And she went to a Beto

Event. But was she a supporter? It was Beto who was attacked by Sirota.

[justie18]

41. Really!

Sanders does not traffic in negative politics - surely you must be kidding! 2016 primary was the most toxic in my lifetime. The booing at the convention - even for Hillary? The physical altercation in the NV caucus? Dollar bills thrown at Hillary during CA primary?

[happybird]

56. +1

[floppyboo]

64. The throwing chairs thing has been exposed for what it was

An attempted smear. Are you really still buying that?
And dollar bill throwing - well, that was way more widespread than 'bros'. And what a positive outcome! I doubt we'll see that kind of fundraising this cycle. The epitome of divisiveness as far as tactics go. I hope those people are unemployed this time around.

[emulatorloo]

68. Poster said nothing about "throwing chairs" n/t

[floppyboo]

79. I made an assumption here. my bad. physical altercation then. n/t

[justie18]

105. Really

Next I am going to hear there was no booing at the convention, especially when Hillary was giving her acceptance speech. Why did St. Bernie hire those three Jill Stein voters recently? Cuz he just wants to run a non-divisive campaign? Why does Weaver not want to work on his campaign again

[floppyboo]

108. I don't know. why are you looking backwards?

if you like looking backwards, go back to 2008. These aren't the things that caused 'failure' - but by repeating them over and over, its no wonder there is divisiveness. Try a little hope.

[justie18]

109. Because

You made a broad blanket statement that Sanders does not traffic in negative politics. I also referred to his CURRENT campaign team of three avid Jill Stein voters plus the lack of Weaver (which is because St. Bernie refused to concede at the appropriate time, against Weaver's recommendation). This is the CURRENT status of his campaign.

[louis c]

50. You ansered your own question...

...if the second choice of Biden supporters go to BS, then eliminating Biden increases their chances.

However, getting caught doesn't.

Bernie is now my 16th choice in the Dem. primary and I will only vote for him if he runs head to head against Trump.

Bernie is an OK guy. However, I can't stand a vast amount of his supporters.

[justie18]

61. Really

Sanders does not traffic in megative politics? Surely you must be joking. Hiring Sirota was just an aberration.

[Cha]

121. Even a former BS fan from The Nation said SO..

I was wrong. Sanders turned so negative toward Clinton that it hurt her in the general election. Even though he campaigned for her after he lost the nomination, roughly 12 percent of Sanders’s supporters switched to Trump, and enough of the rest supported Jill Stein’s kamikaze candidacy that it helped tip key states to Trump.

https://www.thenation.com/article/bernie-sanders-electability-eric-alterman/

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=42334

[emulatorloo]

66. Bernie hired Sirota for a reason. And you answered yr own question.

You wrote:

“Give me a good reason why Sanders' campaign would be behind this, given that the second choice of Biden supporters go to Sanders. ”

That’s the possible motivation right there.

Biden out polling Bernie. If Biden taken out, Bernie wins when he gets Biden voters.

Of course this is speculative on my part.

However Remember that Sirota did an intellectually dishonest hit job on Beto
when it seemed like Beto was going to draw some Sanders voters away.

[BlueFlorida]

83. The best strategy for you to have a modicum of credibility

is to admit that Sanders ran an entirely negative campaign.

He introduced the following phrases and used in a derogatory manner:

Corporate Democrat
Wall Street Democrat
Establishment Democrat
Bankrupt on ideas Democrat
Status quo Democrat
Corrupt Democrat

All life-long Democrats supporting Hillary were smeared with one or more of these and they were so effective that millions ended up hating Hillary Clinton as a corrupt woman in the pocket of wall street and undeservedly propped up by the DNC. Millions who hated Hillary were then encouraged to vote for Jill Stein to make sure Hillary doesn't win, preserving one last chance for Bernie to run.

Now Sanders has hired in top slots the very people who went negative on Hillary and encouraged voting for Stein.

One must have been comatose (or obtuse) during 2016 to make a statement that "Sanders does not traffic in negative politics."

[floppyboo]

86. you forgot DINO

[Blue_true]

117. If Flores was touched by Biden, then why doesn't 1 of around

1200 photos taken at that event show that instance? All we see is HER touching his shoulders from behind. Show the photo of him touching her in the manner that she claimed, SHOW IT!!! One organization has said that a photographer went through EVERY photo taken at that event and CAN NOT FIND where Biden touched the woman.

[Cha]

120. BULLFEATHERS! "The Liberal case against Bernie"

I was wrong. Sanders turned so negative toward Clinton that it hurt her in the general election. Even though he campaigned for her after he lost the nomination, roughly 12 percent of Sanders’s supporters switched to Trump, and enough of the rest supported Jill Stein’s kamikaze candidacy that it helped tip key states to Trump.

https://www.thenation.com/article/bernie-sanders-electability-eric-alterman/

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=42334

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

134. Apparently, Flores recently attended a Beto rally...of course, no one is, or should be, blamin Beto.

But, if Bernie is even remotely connected to Flores this time around, the steel knives come out!! Wonder why?! hmmmm...


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Baclava]

10. Biden "ready to kill Bernie"....its gonna be a bloodbath!

Just another primary season lol

[BlueFlorida]

15. I'll donate to Biden just to see that

sort of like pay-per-view boxing.

[LakeArenal]

52. Can't wait to donate to Biden.

Sorry, but I just don’t care about Sanders.

But I would like to see his taxes.

Sanders or not there is a smear campaign going on Joe. He knows it. We know it.

If one says there isn’t, then one is part of it.

The public kissing photos are just a start.

On any Dem that starts to move up in the polls.

[BlueFlorida]

54. You get it!

[Perrenial Voter]

94. I wonder if this is true, or whether this is a third party playing

"Let's you and him fight..." I think both Sanders and Biden let their tempers get the better of them sometimes, though they both also put up with a lot.

[treestar]

12. Old man brawls

Biden vs. Trump. Biden vs. Bernie.

[DonViejo]

116. Yeah, that's hysterically funny

[BlueFlorida]

13. Go Joe Go !!!

Not only run full steam ahead, do the other things you promised in that quote. People will be cheering!

[George II]

14. That should be rival "Democrats".

[yaesu]

22. Biden is being Frankened

I wish as many Dems came to Al's defense as they did for Biden. Maybe the party learned from the mistake of eating their own.

[Ilsa]

24. And then a new "rival" progressive forum website

will go up for the next two years.

[Maggiemayhem]

25. That's right..Just pit Democrats against one another.

CT is just that. If I had a conspiracy theory, it would involve the Republicans. Did not Satan Bannon just say Biden would be hard for Trump to beat and they are scared of Sanders of policy.

[DirtEdonE]

26. Whoever is behind this is helping trump, IMO

I'm not naming any names, it might be a repubican. But that's the bottom line here. We're either going to win together or lose together and losing isn't an option this time. We need the House, Senate and White House with super majorities. Stop the ratfking around and unite behind a candidate. It's the traitor gop we have to defeat, not each other.

[floppyboo]

31. yup

[Honeycombe8]

28. Yes, it is. It's pretty transparent. And is having the opposite effect they hoped.

People are rallying around Biden, in the face of the attack. As for me, Biden has gone up in my short list because of the attack.

[floppyboo]

33. Do you know who 'they' are? Please provide proof.

[Honeycombe8]

37. It's obvious. She's a Bernie supporter. There is no crime or unethical behavior. Ipso facto.

It's so transparent. This is the most they could come up with.

A = "Incident" happens where Biden "invades my space."
B = "Incident" happens where Bernie "invades her space."
C = Becomes key person among Bernie supporters and works for his election
D = Years later, Biden and Bernie are going to be running for same office
E = Goes on talk show circuit to decry how "Biden invaded my space" and "made me uncomfortable" !
F= Does not say that Bernie similarly invaded her space.
G = Ipso facto for the nothingburger claim: It's a transparent attempt to harm Bernie's opponent in the upcoming election.

If you've got a brain, you can see it for what it is.

Biden has, therefore, gone up the list in my short list. He must be deemed a real threat, after all, to warrant this kind of attack. A real threat = could win the Presidential race.

[LakeArenal]

62. Yes. It's obviously a smear campaign.

Joe is most feared by the right. That fear being used by someone to scare us.

I fight harder when threatened.

[MineralMan]

30. I can't imagine that Senator Sanders is behind this at all.

It's not his style. However, I can imagine supporters thinking this up and doing it on their own. If so, it's a big mistake.

If I were Biden, my attitude right now would be, "Is that the best you've got? Really? Never mind. I'm in!"

[Honeycombe8]

38. It's had the opposite effect, IMO, as people rally behind Biden.

He's gone up the list in my short list. I now consider him such a threat to the others (as far as winning), that I see him as a really good contender. Maybe the best.

[MineralMan]

39. Yes. That's why such tactics fail.

All they do is solidify support for the accused candidate, especially when the accusations are mundane.

That's why I don't think Sanders is behind this at all. He knows better than that in a primary race. Personally, I think he'll finish third or fourth in the primaries, anyhow, so I'm not all that concerned.

[redstatebluegirl]

43. Senator Sanders wants to be President more than life itself.

As my grandfather always said, be very wary of anyone who lusts after power because they will do anything to gain it, and will not know what to do with it after they get it.

I loved Bernie when he first came on the national scene, since then I have lost a great deal of respect for him, and certainly for many of his rabid followers.

I agree with one of the posts here, he is going scorched earth and that is the last thing we need right now as a party.

[BlueFlorida]

85. +1000 nt

[MineralMan]

87. My father said that nobody who truly wants to be President ever should be.

I can't say I disagree.

[sheshe2]

111. Your grandfather was a wise man.

[redstatebluegirl]

149. He was, I loved him to pieces.

I lost him when I was 12 to a heat attack. He was in Chicago at a party meeting, he went back to his hotel and died. He died doing what he loved best, working to elect Democrats. We used to go there every Sunday for dinner, he would quiz all of us on current events, that is what got me into reading a newspaper every day so I didn't disappoint him by not knowing an answer.

[njhoneybadger]

135. What she said

[BlueFlorida]

84. I am not as sure as you are

There may be plausible deniability kept ... but I doubt Sanders was not aware of the plan and had his input in it.

[Blue_true]

119. I am leaning in the direction that you are on this.

It is interesting that as polls consistently showed Biden beating Bernie, these unproven allegations cropped up.

[Liberalhammer]

32. Democrats eating their own

Man most of us lefties take the bait everytime.

[Cetacea]

35. The old Karl Rove method: turn a strength into a weakness

"Uncle Joe". The caring, empathetic politician. Everyone's kind uncle. Through the use of doctored videos and photoshop, they've been building on this attack for at least two years (that I'm aware of). The right is very clever in regards to the nuances of the metoo movement. Flores herself told MSNBC audience to "watch all of the videos".

[Honeycombe8]

40. When they make the talk show circuit, their goal is political. Not about the behavior complained of.

That's the most telling fact. That, plus this non-event event happened 5 years ago, without a peep from her. Add to that the fact that there's a pic of Bernie "invading her space," but she makes no complaint about that, the candidate she was a key working supporter for.

It's pretty transparent.

[Ford_Prefect]

36. The conspiracy no-one speaks of is the one likely stirring the controversy.

This is a classic Russian tactic. It also resembles the Lee Atwood-Karl Rove-Roger Stone approach. Pitch an attack and then point the blame at other players. It divides the party and amplifies anger and fear. Trolls are so much more effective when no-one is looking for them.

In this case, the blame is centered on Sanders using the anger left from 2016. What I find curious is Democrats willing to assume this kind of vicious backbiting attack is natural to candidates with long histories of acting on principle.

Republicans have a family history of eating their own on the way to the nomination. They have boasted in public of their ability to sow dissension among their opponents and cite this vicious behavior to demonstrate how committed they are to "Republican Principles."

What this more closely resembles is the pattern of accusations against Al Franken feeding the enormous response demanding his ouster. It was out of proportion with the personal record of the Senator. It was fed by the internet using innuendo and assumed shame along with unsupported allegations.

We are being herded by trolls again! If you find you cannot think clearly about this you should try to figure out who is pulling your other leg.

[MineralMan]

42. Yes. Someone is trying to Franken Biden.

I'm ignoring it. It's very transparent, really, and all they can come up with is a couple of "personal space violations." Every candidate alive has violated someone's personal space at one point or another. It comes with the territory of "pressing the flesh."

[Honeycombe8]

45. I see your point. But in this case, SHE is personally making the talk show circuit.

As opposed to planted "news" articles or opinion pieces. The person herself, a key working Bernie supporter, is making the talk show circuit. It's pretty transparent. Sort of like that Republican LeeAnn Tweeden (who twerked against a male lead, and patted his butt) going on Fox and claiming that Franken sexually harassed her. That was pretty transparent, too.

Look for more of these "claims" against Biden. One claim somehow begets other claims, as people looking for their 15 minutes of fame crawl out of the woodwork to make THEIR nothingburger claims.

[Ford_Prefect]

51. Trolls! Trolls! Trolls! Do not let yourself feed them!

They want you to believe the worst is likely and possible of anyone. To expect our candidates to act like TRUMP is beneath us.

The evidence is pretty damn thin at the moment but rumor and innuendo spread like a grass fire.

[McKim]

139. Yes, I Call It lets You and Him Fight

Yes, the trolls are stirring up trouble. The Bernie thing worked before so they are trying it again.
Don’t take the bait!

[left-of-center2012]

44. "rival Democrats"

Many of the attacks on Biden here on DU,
in my observation,
come from Harris supporters.

Harris and Sanders supporters need to get Joe out of the race,
to better their chances.

[Gothmog]

46. There is a pattern

There have been attacks on any candidate who might be a thread to sanders. I still love the fact that Sirota went all out against Beto and denied that he was working for sanders.

[jalan48]

57. Or a third candidate trying to damage the two current front runners? Damage Biden with inappropriate

touching allegations and then blame Sanders for being behind it. Two birds with one stone!

[emulatorloo]

71. Dunno everyone's been so friendly, supportive, and cordial so far, which has been nice

[LongtimeAZDem]

67. A former board member of "Our Revolution" is part of the corporate controlled party structure? BS.

Malicious intruder check please

[emulatorloo]

69. Can you get me a credible link that supports this charge of yours that the party stole the primary?

Not a blog, not an “opinion piece,” but a factual article from a reputable source.

Thanks in advance! I appreciate it

[johnnyfins]

59. This has RW stink all over it

RW radio has painted Biden as a creepy old man for years. Especially the ones that Orangina has listened to Alex Jonestown, Michael Savage Weiner, etc.

[George II]

60. The accuser was a surrogate for Sanders in 2016 and on the board of his Our Revolution.

[emulatorloo]

70. Yes, rightwing has been trying to make "Joe is a Perv" a thing for a while

Sadly for them it hasn’t worked

Thanks so much for posting this

[sheshe2]

112. Yep.

The RWingers, the party of perverts, elected and support a President that stated that he grabs women by the p****. And, they, all of them stand by their man, while called Biden a Perv.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

72. Oh for fuck's sake. It's Bernie's fault? Sweet Jesus.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

73. Also, between Sanders and Biden. ONE is an ACTUAL candidate for President.

The other hasn't decided yet.

Let's support Dem candidates, people.

[OhZone]

81. If you believe that Bernie's motives are really -

to win the Presidency.

I'm not so sure.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

101. So the guy who overtly didn't take the opportunity to talk about

the conspiracy theories about Clinton is not going to go after a guy that's not even in the race yet.

Makes sense. Sure. Yup. You've convinced me. for the impaired.

[OhZone]

106. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything -

I'm just saying I don't trust anyone, except maybe myself, my brother, and my Julie.

And I especially don't trust temporary Democrats.

Oh well.

[BlueFlorida]

88. This is why it is interesting

Biden is killing Bernie in polls even before he has officially announced. When he announces, he will get a 5 point bump and the reporters will follow him as the front-runner.

Biden is currently the biggest threat to Sanders and therefore the political hit job. People can put two and two together easily.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

102. Any indication he would do this from past races?

He told people to just get over the discussion of Clinton's emails. That would have been easy for him to use against her. Yet he didn't. But now, with no proof, you think he's going to have people make allegations against Biden about sexually inappropriate advances? Sure.

[BlueFlorida]

104. That was in the first debate in Iowa

before he hired Tad Devine.

Then Tad and Jeff Weaver got together and started the "destroy Hillary" policy

[sheshe2]

113. Yes, there is.

[Cha]

122. I'm supporting an actual Democrat.

Last edited Tue Apr 2, 2019, 07:58 PM - Edit history (1)

No way would I ever support BS the primaries.

[peggysue2]

78. Good for Biden!

The man is fighter, the sort we need to beat Trump. This is a test for Joe Biden because he's going to be lambasted by the Left and the Right. The reason is perfectly clear: he's a genuine threat to the political aspirations of many. His poll numbers are wa-a-y too good.

I would expect nothing less of Biden to defend himself, speak to the issue at hand, and then bolt out of the starting-gate like the seasoned professional he is.

[mainstreetonce]

80. Sending a big Biden hug

To all who are supporting him.

Please don't feel uncomfortable .

(And your hair smells great )

[OhZone]

82. ** hugs back **

<3

[Poiuyt]

115. It could be that the Russians are behind it

This is typical of the way they work

[Cha]

123. Flores is "Russian"?

[BlueFlorida]

129. lol

[Eliot Rosewater]

126. And that person i cant call names mentioned in the article will NOT stop with Joe

I have been trying to tell you all this for a while now.

[dlk]

138. Obviously, the Timing is Suspect, But the Fact Remains, Times Have Changed

It’s just not acceptable anymore for public figures to be overly touchy-freely, no matter how innocent their intentions.

[C Moon]

140. As do all of us here.

[snort]

141. Joe Biden's nose raped my hair.

[Autumn]

146. Are the two new women connected to Bernie? At what point does a man take responsibility

for his own actions?

Two more women accuse Biden of inappropriate touching

Two additional women came forward Tuesday to say former Vice President Joe Biden touched them in ways that made them uncomfortable.

The women, Caitlyn Caruso and D. J. Hill, each recounted their experiences to The New York Times.

Caruso, 22, told the Times that Biden rested his hand on her thigh even as she attempted to show her discomfort by squirming in her seat during a sexual assault event at the University of Nevada at Las Vegas. Caruso, who was 19 at the time, added that Biden hugged her "just a little bit too long."

She told the newspaper that the interaction was uncomfortable because she had just discussed a time she was sexually assaulted and expected Biden to be aware of physical boundaries.

“It doesn’t even really cross your mind that such a person would dare perpetuate harm like that,” she told the paper. “These are supposed to be people you can trust.”

Hill, 59, told the Times that while taking a photograph with Biden in 2012, the then-vice president placed his hand on her shoulder and began moving it down her back, something she said made her "very uncomfortable."

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/437069-two-more-women-accuse-biden-of-inappropriate-touching

[Cha]

148. Were you this eager to get Al Franken

kicked out of the Senate with "no investigations"? Were you impressed with Gillibrand "railroading" him?

Did you post multiple times about all the women coming forward and accusing Al Franken.. or is it just Joe Biden you're so busy posting about?

[Autumn]

150. That's just silly deflection Cha. Should we ignore news on DU because we don't like the news?

If 4 women came out saying VP Pence made them uncomfortable by hugging them, putting his hand on their thigh we would be all up on him and you know it. You do know that Joe isn't in the Senate so he is in no danger of being kicked out of the Senate with "no investigations"? I'll post whatever I feel like, if you don't like it that's not my problem. If you find this subject too uncomfortable to discuss you should use the trash by keyword feature.

[Cha]

152. Of course you call it "silly"

I wasn't around when Senator Franken was forced to resign, but when I came back it seemed like most of the board was behind him and pissed off at Gillibrand.

But, somehow it's all different now with Joe Biden for a few busy posters. I wonder what the difference is between Senator Franken and VP Biden?

[Autumn]

153. Maybe because Franken was never the 2nd most powerful man in the world? Using him as a deflection

really won't work.

[LongtimeAZDem]

155. He was one of the most powerful Democrats at the time, and a potential future Presidential

candidate.

But that is beside the point; it was wrong to railroad him just as it is wrong to smear Biden.

[Autumn]

156. When you would rather bring up Franken to avoid discussing the problem you do a

disservice to both men, it's not a matter of right or wrong. Biden is not being smeared, his actions are being discussed. It would be a smear if it were a lie. We have all known Joe is Joe, we older people have accepted it and for many it was part of his charm. It seems the younger generation of women are not willing to overlook his lack of boundaries. And why should they have to?

[LongtimeAZDem]

157. I didn't bring him up; I responded to your point.

It's a smear for the reasons I posted elsewhere, and it doesn't matter to you because it helps Sanders, as Franken's ouster did.

[Autumn]

158. One woman was connected to Sanders. What about the other three?

Flores has already been called a 'fraud' and 'racist' by a former Sanders staffer. Bernie , like Pelosi said that those accusation didn't disqualify Biden. The second wanted a wanted a woman for president. How does that help Sanders? How are the latest two connected to Sanders? Franken's ouster didn't benefit Sanders, Gillibrand was the ring leader there and the rest piled on, including Sanders.

[LongtimeAZDem]

159. I didn't say Sanders orchestrated it; I said you're fine with the smear becasie it helps him

[Autumn]

160. Well consult your crystal ball again. How I feel about Biden is on record.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100211844944#post33

Autumn (33,930 posts)

23. The only problem I will have is if Biden doesn't jump in the race.

He and Bernie are a big pluses and both fill a void I don't see the others as yet filling. IMO

Autumn (33,930 posts)

49. That cracked me up. Only Joe.

I want Trump beat and humiliated here and on the world stage. I want him whimpering and crying in the corner of a dirty omelet bar at his shitty golf course.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1251543698#post19
Star Member Autumn (33,930 posts)

19. Biden has every right to run if he chooses to run. That he is having meetings

with donors shows that he is thinking about it. If he want's it to happen it will, no one else is trying to make it happen.

[CareerGuyMA]

151. It was always the policies

A reminder. Policy and politics are DIFFERENT.
It has never been about Bernie the man. It was always about “New Deal” and more progressive ideas. Those ideas won a 40 seat majority. Most Democratic candidates are now espousing these policies.

[Joe941]

154. They are trying to "Franken" Joe Biden.

I will be watching and taking notes. Those who throw him under the bus will be in my dog house.

[Gothmog]

165. I like this statement by Joe Biden

Link to tweet

[R B Garr]

167. Glad they saw this, as it's obvious. Flores and Caitlyn are pen pals.

There is a tweet in another thread where they show they know one another for years.

The underlying theme from these women is that they don’t want Biden to run. They are just using their space invasion stories as the vehicle to start that conversation. I don’t like being manipulated by underhanded attempts to pervert motives. It is looking like this is backfiring on them, though.

[Gothmog]

169. Early State Democrats Stand With Biden As Touching Scandal Falls Flat

Link to tweet

Progressives and advisers to Bernie Sanders hoped that they could keep Biden out of the race with a scandal that centers around personal space. The scandal though never really dominated the news like they hoped it or accelerated enough to damage the former vice president’s potential candidacy. Biden is still leading in the way too early polling, and he has seen no erosion in his support since the touching scandal started.

The challenge that any Democratic candidate faces is that Joe Biden has deep roots and a huge national organization of party officials. Biden is beloved by the party rank and file, and it is going to take more than what his political adversaries tried to turn into a scandal to stop his candidacy.

After seeing the behavior of porn star paying off, Access Hollywood tape accused sexual assaulter Trump, Joe Biden’s behavior doesn’t rise to the level of disqualifying in the minds of many Democrats.

Democratic voters may choose a different nominee, but Joe Biden is showing why he is going to be hard to beat in 2020.

[Renew Deal]

170. The problem is that the accusations were predictable

Many of the occurrences are on camera.

[Gothmog]

172. This so-called scandal/hit job failed

Link to tweet

One almost sensed from the breathless coverage of women who decided years later to object to former vice president Joe Biden’s non-sexual hugs and pats and kisses on the head that they expected the media to think it would be a fatal or near-fatal blow to Biden’s presidential chances. Not only was it not fatal, it didn’t register as particularly relevant to most Democratic voters. He was atop the polls before these stories aired, and he is atop them now.

Biden has been in the public eye since the 1970s, and unlike Hillary Clinton, who claimed the public never really knew her, voters feel like they know Biden pretty darn well. Many voters don’t remember anything before his vice presidency, his demonstrably warm relationship with President Barack Obama, his remarkable dignity after the death of his beloved son Beau, and his emotional goodbye to the late senator John McCain. He has established a level of emotional intimacy with voters that few politicians attain. He’s the chatty next-door neighbor, the avuncular relative and the co-worker who remembers everyone’s birthday.