The Thing About Bernie...

[polichick]

is he reminds voters that - with government of the people, by the people, and for the people - we should expect our tax monies to be used for the benefit of the people, we should expect elected officials to serve the people.

It is not only Republican voters who have been subjected to gaslighting and brainwashing. Too many Democrats have been conditioned to accept the pillaging of our country - of our children’s future. Bernie reminds us in very clear terms that the status quo is protected by those who enable and profit from the pillaging.

In slightly more moderated words, Warren is doing the same thing.

Our society is way overdue for a paradigm shift in the direction of government truly of the people, by the people, and for the people. That’s what Americans understand intuitively.

(Supporting both Bernie and Warren during the primaries.)

[HerbChestnut]

1. Agreed.

I'll add that politicians have been saying what government CAN'T do for so long that people believe it. All you have to do is look outside the United States to see that tax dollars can actually be put to use for the benefit of society in major ways.

[KPN]

5. And that goes for both sides of the aisle in my view. Sure, Ds have couched it in "being realistic",

"being pragmatic", or "incrementalism" -- but the effect is the same. In so doing/saying for so long, the public has begun to accept this as unalterable reality when in fact it is not. The truth is the only positive incrementalism has all been around social as opposed to economic issues with one exception -- the ACA and that hasn't got the job done by any stretch. "Realism, incrementalism, pragmatism" have been nothing but a slippery downward slope for working and middle class Americans.

[NYMinute]

2. You proved your point

It is not only Republican voters who have been subjected to gaslighting and brainwashing.

[democratisphere]

3. Yep.

Thank you!

[OneMoreCupOfCoffee]

9. Touche

[DanTex]

4. Exactly. That's why the whole "where does the money come from" attack doesn't work.

The money comes from the tax cuts for millionaires and the military spending. The same way that countries like Canada and Denmark and Germany and all that pay for their social services. It's not about money, it's about priorities.

[MyOwnPeace]

11. "It's not about money, it's about priorities."

You got THAT right!
Anything can be done if you make up your mind to do it. It is all a battle of priorities.
President Kennedy made a commitment to put "a man on the moon" and never once made "cost" an issue or excuse.
President Obama made healthcare a priority in the face of serious opposition and with committed teamwork got it done.
We have allowed IQ45 and the turtle-led one-%ers dictate what we do with government funds, and it has not gone in favor of the majority of Americans.
This needs to change and November is the time to make it happen.
We must GET OUT THE VOTE!!!!!!!

[Midnightwalk]

13. That would actually be an effective message

Repeal the tax cuts, cut military spending and tax profiteers ( i like that better than rich because Americans think they will all be rich soon ). Use that to fund healthcare reform, student debt and climate change. It’s all paid for.

The message isn’t that clear because too much was promised. Raising revenue like I’m suggesting gets us something like 20 trillion. Bernie unfortunately wasn’t able to just say 60 trillion is bullshit and his programs are all funded by repealing tax cuts and cutting the military.

I hope I get a better answer than thats just republican talking points and incrementalism is dumb.

I’d consider getting 33% of his 60 trillion dollar program done is a first term phenomenal. I have differences with some policy but my big problem is not believing we can counter the 60 trillion dollar tax increase baloney effectively.

[DanTex]

15. The answer, as Bernie said, is nobody knows how much healthcare will cost over 10 years.

People have estimates, but nobody knows the number.

What we do know is that we, the American people, are going to be paying that amount either way, whether it's via a tax funding single payer, or via premiums and copays and direct payments. And, with single payer it will be less, because of administrative savings, bargaining power, etc.

People thought that was a "gotcha" but stuff like that always results in zero drop in Bernie's support. Because that whole line of attack is disingenuous. We know single payer isn't going to bankrupt us because we see it working all over the world. We also see things like free college working all over the world.

It's about priorities. I agree that getting 33% of his platform passed would be phenomenal. His platform is a vision, it's a statement of the kind of nation we can have, and we should work towards.

[Midnightwalk]

16. Thanks for the response

I think you get that my argument is on how to get to where we want to go. We’d probably disagree on particulars but we’re so far off the point where those matter that it’s not worth worrying.

I’ll just point out that other candidates want to fix healthcare and make college affordable. But they can do it closer to a number that they can say will be completely funded “painlessly”. Maybe the aspirational parts could be emphasized more.

Bernie staked out aspirations but in my opinion let details of what can and will be done in a first term spin too far out and leaves us vulnerable to obvious republican attacks that unfortunately have worked too many times.

Some people like aspirations. Some people like knowing how to get there. I like both but I like the difference clear. But most of all I want progress which means our nominee has to win.

One last thought is that saying “no one know” really isn’t a great answer in my opinion. It might be true in the sense that we don’t know what will actually be enacted and in that we might do more after the first term, but it sounds a bit clueless and it feeds the fears that it will be out of control. Better to say something like “the system is broken compared to other countries that deliver universal coverage for much less than we spend. We have a long way to go, but we can take a giant step and it will be funded by repealing the tax cuts, etc”. Something like that.

Anyway thanks for reading.

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

6. Where does the money come from

Is moot, mute or whichever.

He won't get it.

[Uncle Joe]

7. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread polichick.

[UniteFightBack]

8. I think you're right about the shift. But the timing is not now. I'd say in about 30 years or

so that could be a reality.
But we are really screwed if people keep thinking that the 'revolution' timing is now.
We may set back THE ACTUAL revolution that I believe will occur.

[empedocles]

10. Basically agree. Over time may be evolution, rather than revolution.

[polichick]

17. "The revolution" was interrupted by Reagan and Fox and talk radio...

and the wholesale gaslighting of America.

FEAR keeps voters from getting things back on track - not so different from the fear that just let a guilty sociopath loose on the American people and our institutions.

[Malmsy]

12. A Sanders/Warren ticket would be unstoppable! (eom)

[polichick]

18. I think so too.

[Laelth]

14. Bernie represents the heart and the soul of the party. That I admit.

But Bernie isn't a team player, and I can't see him winning the team's nomination, no matter how well his rhetoric advances the noble goal of resisting the status quo in politics.

-Laelth

[polichick]

19. He's playing on Team American People.

[Laelth]

20. Fair enough.

I still want “Team Democratic” to win, and I think it’s reasonable to expect the members of the Democratic Party to feel the same.

-Laelth

[polichick]

21. "I am a member of the Democratic Party..."

WASHINGTON — Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., has formally declared himself a member of the Democratic Party as he seeks its presidential nomination in 2020, abiding by new Democratic National Committee rules.

"I am a member of the Democratic Party," reads the statement to the DNC that Sanders signed and notarized Tuesday. It also asserts that Sanders will serve as a Democrat if elected president and that the DNC can determine who is "a bonafide Democrat." a member of the Democratic Party," reads the statement to the DNC that Sanders signed and notarized Tuesday. It also asserts that Sanders will serve as a Democrat if elected president and that the DNC can determine who is "a bonafide Democrat."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/bernie-sanders-signs-dnc-loyalty-pledge-i-am-member-democratic-n979696

[Laelth]

22. Yes, but very few people actually believe that. For better or for worse. n/t

-Laelth