Ugly insult by Biden in NH confirmed by WaPo

[Renew Deal]

Biden jokingly calls voter who asked about Iowa a ‘lying dog-faced pony soldier’

HAMPTON, N.H. — Madison Moore warned Joe Biden that the question she was about to ask was going to be a bit mean.

Then the 21-year-old student at Mercer University in Georgia launched into a version of what’s been asked of the former vice president since his disappointing fourth-place finish in the Iowa caucuses:

“How do you explain the performance in Iowa, and why should voters believe that you can win the national election?”
What happened next left her a little shaken, Moore said.

Biden said it was legitimate question, but then turned the spotlight back on her, asking: “Iowa’s a caucus. Have you ever been to a caucus?”

When she indicated yes, he rebuked her “No, you haven’t. You’re a lying dog-faced pony soldier.”
<snip>

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-jokingly-calls-voter-who-asked-about-iowa-a-lying-dog-faced-pony-soldier/2020/02/09/9e8da478-4b75-11ea-9b5c-eac5b16dafaa_story.html

[Ferrets are Cool]

1. If true, I have a question...

How do you "jokingly" call someone a lying dog-faced pony soldier?

[Scurrilous]

10. I guess you had to be there.

Context is everything.

Ever greet someone with 'how you doing you old 'blankety blank.'

"Insults can be delivered in two primary ways: seriously and in jest. In the former case, harm is intended, while in the latter it often isn't. As many people can attest to, however, the line between serious and jesting insults is not always as clear as we'd like." - Psych Today

And that line is what some are seeking to exploit. Maybe we should wait to hear from the person involved before being outraged in her behalf.

These 'insults' are also a form of self depreciation.

'One possibility is that these insults do what was just discussed: They signal that one doesn't hold themselves in high esteem and, accordingly, signal that one isn't "too good" to be your friend.' - Psych Today

[krissey]

16. In context the very next sentence was "You gotta be honest".

[Scurrilous]

33. I worked with this girl in a restaurant when I was in college.

Anytime I would say something to contradict her she would stop, think, and then look up and say (drawn out in her strong southern accent ) 'You're a damn liar.' It was funny. And part of human interplay.

I think that was where Biden was coming from. I saw a screenshot of when he said it and he was smiling and so was she. That's why initial reports said 'jokingly.'

The problem with trying to take quotes of context and smear Biden, in this case as some kind of monster, is that everyone who has met him will say attest he's not.

So good luck to those who try.

[krissey]

40. How about if it is not about smearing, or about making Biden a monster.

He mouthed off without thought as we have seen him do in the past. Called a young woman a dog faced liar and followed up with you gotta be honest.

If it was just a joke about the John Wayne quote he would not follow up with "You gotta be honest".

Yes, his supporters laughed, of course they did. And since, they have been saying it is smears to make Biden a monster.

The young woman laughed. All eyes are on her in a crowded room of Biden supporters on national tv. Very human reaction is a laugh.

She states she was shaken. I will believe her. I won't call her a liar. She smiled, she wasn't shaken. She is lying again. See.

And... Biden came out and said it was not a mean question, it was an honest question. Good for him. He should have simply added, I should not have made that stupid John Wayne quote.

And we would be done.

But, that is not what we are doing now because supporters want to make it something it is not right before our eyes. I am all behind Biden if he wins, but this has been the challenge for me with the primary. This is on Biden and he does things like this too often, but supporters want to cheer it on.

[cwydro]

72. Point.

Well put.

[MichMan]

79. Hardly appropriate when meeting someone for the first time

"Ever greet someone with 'how you doing you old 'blankety blank."

Maybe a close friend, relative, or a co worker. Never ever someone I met for the very first time.

[fallout87]

102. I guess nobody understands joe

and his demeaning comments outside of his fervent supporters... sounds like someone currently occupying the oval office....

[LanternWaste]

112. Most understand him... except those who pretend they don't

But we get it... sometimes playing the role of the lowest common denominator is the most effective way to feel self-righteous.

[fallout87]

120. Its not "understanding" him, its making excuses for him...

just like what you and his supporters are doing.

[rusty fender]

104. "Ever greet someone with 'how you doing you old 'blankety blank.'"

Sure, but you have to be a friend of the person who you’re insulting in order for your insult to be jovial. Biden isn’t this women’s friend.

And never is it ok to call a woman, dog-faced.

[highplainsdem]

108. Biden explained years ago he got that line from his brother who's a John Wayne fan, who apparently

told him it's from a John Wayne movie, though since no one's turned that line up it looks like his brother had misremembered the line.

So this was an over-the-top insult two kids probably used on each other.

It's obviously meant to be silly, not serious. A joking way of showing skepticism

That woman has now admitted she was lying about having been to a caucus, and Biden obviously saw that. So he used an over the top line as a way of ribbing her about trying to be deceptive.

[BusyBeingBest]

2. Pretty sure he was joking. Just was a weird choice of joke.

Probably also should have accepted her answer and not implied she was lying.

[squirecam]

6. But she was

If she is 21 then 4 years ago she was 17. Georgia doesn’t have a caucus.

She was a supporter of another campaign who wasn’t being honest when he asked her. If you want honesty, and she wanted that, she should have been upfront with him too.

[BusyBeingBest]

18. Even if you suspect she isn't being truthful on that point, why go there?

It served no purpose whatsoever.

[squirecam]

23. That's Joe

Nt

[book_worm]

20. She could have been at a caucus as an observer.

[aikoaiko]

29. You might be surprised to learn that Mercer has out of state students.

[Blues Heron]

28. he didn't imply she was lying, he directly said she was lying

[BusyBeingBest]

30. I think mostly he just wanted to use that movie line LOL.

[Blues Heron]

35. right- it's old-time Hollywood's idea of what an Indian chief might say as an insult

Bizarre anyway you slice it. Not a good look for Joe.

[lapucelle]

42. What's an "Indian" chief? N/T

[Blues Heron]

44. Ask Joe

Here's the link with his explanation of the line

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/02/joe-biden-calls-someone-a-lying-dog-faced-pony-soldier-for-the-second-time

[lapucelle]

49. Yes, but why did you use the term? N/T

[Blues Heron]

52. Watch the vid

[lapucelle]

59. I did watch. That doesn't explain why you used the term.

There were neither quotation marks nor a link to the VF video in your post.

[OnlinePoker]

99. Use a movie line that someone might not have heard?

How can it not be interpreted by the person on the receiving end of it as an insult?

[BusyBeingBest]

101. It's clear he didn't think it through at all before it came out of his mouth.

It's that lack of filter that worries me, even among the other oldsters running.

[totodeinhere]

86. Yes, I think he was trying to use humor and it just got to the wrong place.

n/t

[zentrum]

3. Wow. Haven't we had enough

.....of degraded language and name calling out of the ones who are supposed to lead the country?

[Renew Deal]

4. That's what I was thinking

No one on our side would be laughing if this came from Trump

[MarcA]

32. +1,000 n/t

[Autumn]

5. Who is he to call a young woman a liar?

We would be furious if this was said by a republican or Trump.

[Skya Rhen]

9. Bernie called Warren a liar. How quickly we forget.

[Ferrets are Cool]

12. Two wrongs make a right?

Our side has to be better than this. Sheesh

[Autumn]

13. And you were furious no? But calling a young woman a lying dog face pony solder is fine right.

I see you.

[krissey]

21. Yes he did. And HRC. It is so easy for liar to be thrown out when talking to a woman.

HRC was hands down, the most honest.

[sheshe2]

31. +1000

[BlueWI]

70. So Biden's unfunny joke to a 21-year old female voter

is ok because of something Bernie Sanders said to Elizabeth Warren.

Ok then.

[FreeState]

81. +1 n/t

[Renew Deal]

11. I don't understand why people are dismissing it as a joke

It's in poor taste at best, and I believe that it again shows how out of step he is with modern society.

[Autumn]

15. Who the hell watches John Wayne movies? For that matter does anyone under the age of

50 know who he is other than on the western channel? John Wayne was a homophobic old fool.

[stopbush]

22. I love John Wayne movies, he's a guilty pleasure for me.

And I know all about his personal beliefs.

[Autumn]

57. Maybe next time he can get a pie and hit a woman in the face with it. I'm sure everyone watches

the Three Stooges.

[BlueWI]

69. LOL.

Don't suggest this.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

98. I can get on board with that! Nyuk nyuk.

[LanternWaste]

113. At which point, the flock would say "I've never heard of a pie in the face as funny..."

[Autumn]

118. This part of the fock finds a "funny insult" that Bidens brother used on him to not be funny.

Insults are fucking insults.

[zackymilly]

39. Some watch old movies when not playing records on the old Victrola. n/t

[Autumn]

48. I remember my grandma doing that. Sixty years ago.

[H2O Man]

61. John Wayne

was also a racist piece of shit.

[Autumn]

64. True, John Wayne was a racist piece of shit and a raging homophobe.

[H2O Man]

68. His autopsy proved

that he was full of shit.

[jberryhill]

88. It's Tyrone Powers anyway

[Autumn]

119. His people clarified. It was a "funny insult" his brother used on him. He forgot and

attributed it to a movie.

[TexasTowelie]

89. Plenty of people.

I'm not a fan, but just because you don't like him doesn't mean that other people agree with you.

[Scurrilous]

7. ,,,,

Biden jokingly calls woman at campaign event 'a lying dog ...The Hill

Biden jokingly calls...WaPO

Biden Jokingly Calls Student 'Lying Dog-Faced Pony Soldier ...(no link,bad people)

Biden jokingly calls voter who asked about Iowa a 'lying dog ...Syfeed

Dog face -American GI

Next!

[krissey]

24. "You gotta be honest" Where is the joke in that?

[Scurrilous]

38. Context and delivery matter.

We personally have knowledge of neither. The people who reported 'jokingly' did.

[krissey]

45. Yes, it was a joke for everyone but the woman, that was shaken. I stand with her.

[lunasun]

8. Jokingly ? Someone explain this John Wayne thing how is it a joke to say a liar?

The article sez joke I don’t get the joke
maybe it is not so bad but he is using outdated joke

[krissey]

25. John Wayne was putting grown women over his knee and spanking them because he deemed they

misbehaved. No, we do not need to bring the Duke back.

[Retrograde]

17. Biden has long suffered from foot-in-mouth

more so than most politicians. That's one reason he's not in my top tier.

[stopdiggin]

43. that is most likely true

what is patently NOT true is the attempt to spin this as Biden using a terrible slur directed at a young woman.

It might have been ham handed .. but the video clearly shows that this was NOT a mean spirited exchange or attack. And THAT'S where the real lying is taking place. (IMO)

[krissey]

50. I can agree with this. I do not think he was using dog face the same way Trump does.

[George II]

19. Interesting that Washington Post didn't bother to include the video that is available EVERYWHERE!

I guess that would have contradicted the tone of their article.

[Jedi Guy]

26. The context of the moment undermines their angle, so of course they omitted it.

As I said in another thread, you also have to consider the source. The folks asking, "what if Trump had said it?" are trying to draw a line between two very different people, and it's by no means a fair comparison. Trump has a history of viciously mocking people to demean them, and Biden doesn't.

[Scurrilous]

56. The original WaPo report said 'jokingly.' The video shows that.

This article is click bait intended to induce outraged puling from the Greek chorus of lathering critics. Also hit$.

[krissey]

63. The woman was shaken. The joke might have entertained all in the room, but it was at

the young woman's expense.

He did this another time with a 13 yr old girl. She stood to ask a question. Biden started talking about her and boys and turns to the older brother to tell him what his job is to protect this young girl from the boys. Calling a thirteen yr old girls sexuality forefront on national tv and giving ownership of her "sex" life at 13 to the older brother.

Just Joe being Joe. As the girl is standing there in front of the crowd. On national tv. At her expense.

I am tired of these girls being uncomfortable for Joe and his audience entertainment. They are not props for others amusement.

[greatauntoftriplets]

75. Two girls out of 50 in my 8th grade class were pregnant at graduation.

Maybe if their big brothers had helped protect them they wouldn't have been mothers at age 14.

[krissey]

76. Wow.

[FreeState]

83. Double wow

I have five sisters and this is the type of sexist BS they would call me out for. Females don’t need brothers to protect them.

[George II]

67. When I first went to the article it didn't have the video, now it's been added, sort of....

It starts about 10 seconds or more AFTER the woman first spoke to him. She said something like "I'm going to ask a tough question", with a grin on her face. Biden said something, took his jacket off and EVERYONE, including her, laughed, like he was ready for the heat.

[Scurrilous]

71. Yep.

Now the grins are grimaces and Biden is a monster. LOL

[dewsgirl]

27. Was this a saying back when Biden was younger?

[zackymilly]

41. Way younger. It's from a movie in 1959. nt

[dewsgirl]

60. No wonder I never heard it. That had to be from when he was

a kid.

[brutus smith]

34. "say it ain't so Joe"

Joe does these "gaffs" all the time and people just laugh it off. They say "oh that's just Joe".

[MarcA]

46. Agreed. Such excuses will really help us in November - Not. n/t

[krissey]

51. Right. And that is suppose to be good enough. Joe being Joe.

[stonecutter357]

36. good let's go Joe !

[Demsrule86]

37. He was joking....watch the video... so silly.

[USALiberal]

54. Not really funny especially when most people never heard Wayne say it. Nt

[Beartracks]

94. I understood it to be a "fake insult" even without knowing the John Wayne connection.

What if he had just said, feigning disbelief, "Oh, no you haven't!" which is sort of like saying the person's a liar but without using the actual word "liar." That's a fairly normal joke-y reaction which I see from people all the time. But instead he said, feigning disbelief, "You're a lying dog-faced pony soldier," which is apparently a quote from a John Wayne movie. Same gist: he was pretending to not believe her when she said she had been to a caucus before. Now, I don't know why he pretended to not believe her, but it was clear from the context provided by the video of the event that that was what he was doing.

This is all part of not just Joe's banter with his audience members but also part of the back-and-forth many regular people have with their friends and acquaintances. He just did it in this case with a John Wayne quote; it doesn't really matter so much that people didn't "get" where it came from. This doesn't bother me.

===============

[Rorey]

47. Serious question: How did the student feel about this?

Anyone who strongly dislikes Biden is of course going to jump all over this, but what are her feelings?

Quite a few years ago I joked about something with some co-workers. Everyone else was amused, but one person took great offense. I felt terrible that I offended her and apologized profusely. She wouldn't accept and she actually quit not long after. I still feel bad. I hope she doesn't, but sometimes I think that some people just look for a reason to be offended.

None of our candidates are perfect, and we always see some missteps, Biden made a stupid joke, yes, but it's sad to see the focus going toward something so ridiculous.

Also, it would be great to see what was said AFTER what was shown in the clip. It would sure seem to be a lot more honest if the whole story is told rather than just what suits an agenda.

[krissey]

58. After the joke... and I have to wonder when he follows up with "You gotta be honest"

He seriously answered the question. Later, he said that it was not a mean question, it was a honest question. So good for Biden. He could have thrown in that he should not have made that "joke". But, he did answer her question and build her up with his statement after the fact. I do appreciate that.

[Blues Heron]

53. Vanity Fair link w/ Joes explanation of the line

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/02/joe-biden-calls-someone-a-lying-dog-faced-pony-soldier-for-the-second-time

[stopdiggin]

55. JOKING. watch the video

what you WON'T see is an ugly insult aimed at a young college kid. That ain't Biden.

But .. it IS plenty of posters on DU. Sadly enough.
Any distortion is OK .. as long as it's in the service of "my guy."

[cherryinpa]

62. 100% agree

It's clear its a joke, I'd urge anyone who hasn't to just watch the video.

It is a fair point to say why he even said something like that ... fair point.

Silly thing to say? Yes, but it was without malice, thats for sure.

[BlueWI]

90. I've said many times that even though I am not

supporting Biden in the primary. I don't want Biden's campaign to tank, because he might be the nominee.

That being said, this pointless stale attempt at a joke violates basic 21st century norms for interaction by leadership in a public setting, especially in the internet age. There is no defending it. Unforced gaffes make candidates lose - from baskets of deplorables to the 47%. Leave the coy teasing to weekends with your grandchildren and maybe the presidency is possible.

The Biden campaign needs to purchase a clue or its goose is cooked.

[rockfordfile]

65. It was a joke that's clear. The media seems to be desperate.

[krissey]

66. The young woman was shaken by the "joke". Does that matter?

[stopdiggin]

74. the young woman was "shaken" before the exchange ever happened

as are many in similar circumstances. Most of us are not comfortable in that spotlight.
And, in this case, the young woman had some particular reason for nervousness ..

She prefaced her question by saying, "this may come across as being kind of mean ..."
So she was fully aware that she was "poking the bear" .. and, yeah, I would have been kinda nervous under the circumstances too.

I give her credit for steeling her nerves and going forward with her question. Good for her. But she wasn't mauled by Biden's response. Biden went on to give her question an honest answer. And it's pretty clear she was "fibbing a bit" about having participated in a caucus. So .. not really much of a "victim" here?

[Blues Heron]

84. How do you get that she was "fibbing a bit"

How could you know that?

[stopdiggin]

97. I'm taking that from others

who have pointed out that she is too young (to have participated in 2016) -- and is not a resident of a caucus state. I freely acknowledge I have no personal knowledge regarding this young woman (and have tried to present her in a respectful light). But the factors presented suggest that it would be extremely unlikely. Do YOU have information that she actual did participate in a caucus? I haven't read that so far.

[Blues Heron]

100. I believe her. I have no reason to think she's lying

You're calling her a liar based on no info whatsoever, just like Biden. Weird. Plus nobody said she participated in one - she could have been an observer, so the whole desperate attempt here is just that - a desperate attempt to defend the truly bizarre episode.

[stopdiggin]

103. is there a claim that she was an "observer?"

where and when? otherwise .. given what's been reported thus far, I'm going to remain comfortable with "fibbing a bit."

[Blues Heron]

106. No matter what it was a nasty put down

end of story.

[stopdiggin]

109. nope. it wasn't. and the pearls are quite safe

and now we have some solid evidence --

WaPo article -- In a statement released a few hours later, Moore wrote, “I asked Joe Biden a fair question. His immediate response was to question whether I had ever attended a caucus. In my nervousness in the presence of the former Vice President, I nodded yes.”

Moore has not been to a caucus, she said. But she also accused Biden of insulting her, writing “in reality, it is totally irrelevant whether I’ve been to a caucus or not. Joe Biden has been performing incredibly poorly in this race. His inability to answer a simple question from a nobody college student like me only exacerbates that reality.”

This woman was clearly an opposition plant, determined to insert a negative talking point .. and her reaction and supposed "offense" caused by the exchange is clearly colored by that same bias.

she was fibbing, she was a plant, her "offense" was predictable.
end of story

[tonedevil]

111. Who clearly planted her? /nt

[stopdiggin]

115. In that I misspoke

she was clearly a non-Biden voter (with a prepared question representing an agenda) attending a Biden event.
Whether she was "put" there by another campaign is something I honestly can't answer.

[tonedevil]

116. Thank you...

I have been seeing that here about her and I think it robs her of her own agency. Don't know about you, but I have no problem with someone asking a candidate a calculated question. I will be a lot more supportive of a candidate who can handle that without being demeaning.

[LudwigPastorius]

73. Damn, Joe went full Abe Simpson on her.

[mahina]

77. Which is from a Western movie and it was met with laughter.

But, boogedy boo.

[Beartracks]

78. Let's ignore for a moment that it was a fake insult said in jest...

... and appeared to be a small part of Joe's friendly banter with the members of the crowd.

Would the headline be as sensational if it had not been a female student?

I mean this as a serious question. And it's probably difficult to answer since, after the fact, it's easy to say, "Well of COURSE he shouldn't have said something like that to ANYbody, joking or not." But had the student been a guy, I'm kind of thinking the moment would not have gotten nearly as much attention, as the combination of "young woman" and "dog-faced" in the same sentence is precisely where the sensational aspect comes from.

================

[Blues Heron]

82. He called her a liar too, not just a dog faced pony soldier

[Beartracks]

85. Yes, the phrase included the word "liar" in it.

But it's still clear from context he was not actually calling her any of it.

=============

[Blues Heron]

87. he actually called her that.

Then he said you gotta be honest. He's saying she's lying. It's quite clear.

[BlueWI]

93. Why not just answer her question and move on?

What's the upside of humor here, especially dad jokes from 70 years ago?

Seriously, is it so hard to get why this was problematic?

[MichMan]

80. Should have challenged her to a push up contest instead.

[zackymilly]

95. Or a trip behind the barn.

[myohmy2]

91. at...

...the very minimum, tone-deaf...

...unfortunately, now he's going to have to explain it...

[BootinUp]

92. Well. Joe needs to take a break .nt

[zackymilly]

96. He just took a break. n/t

[NoMoreRepugs]

105. Seriously, THIS is a disqualifying action/statement/whatever for Biden being our nominee?

The level of utter pettiness being displayed here about NOTHING in the true big scheme of things truly worries me. If this is of great concern to voters small wonder we lost in 2016. Need to walk the dog and clear my head or I'm going to say things I shouldn't.

I'm in N Florida and I'm seeing snowflakes everywhere.

[snowybirdie]

107. One person's ugly insult

is another's old movie line by John Wayne and meant to be humorous.

[emmaverybo]

110. Great. Spread media spin. Helps your preferred candidates now, but if yours get ahead, expect

same treatment. Clearly inoffensive joking. Biden is terrific with people. Again and again he demonstrates the empathy endorsers note universally.

For months, the press and detractors worked away at his AA support. Before he even announced they attempted to cast him as a pervy sexist. Now, they go after his tremendous people skills, distorting a moment to suggest he insults, humiliates, and traumatizes audience members.

Mean and monstrous Joe beats poor girl to a pulp in public.

A year or so ago he was the kissing bandit.

Amazing. Every appearance I have seen televised he connects beautifully with both crowds and
individuals.

[LanternWaste]

114. And his "victim" laughed harder than he did.

I s'pose this is the crap that will be thrown at the wall this week. We get it... sometimes weaksauce is the best we have and we gotta use it to maintain our position of self-righteousness.

[Renew Deal]

117. It was reported today that she was insulted and she thought less of him because of it.

Real funny joke

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=496537

[jberryhill]

121. When women "laugh along with the joke", they are not offended

I thought everyone knew that.