Harris: 'I believe' Biden accusers

[jalan48]

Sen. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.) said Tuesday that she believes women who say they felt uncomfortable after receiving unwanted touching from former Vice President Joe Biden.

"I believe them and I respect them being able to tell their story and having the courage to do it," Harris said at a presidential campaign event in Nevada.

The California senator added that Biden will need to decide for himself whether to run for president.

"He's going to have to make that decision for himself. I wouldn’t tell him what to do," Harris said.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/437107-harris-i-believe-biden-accusers

[democratisphere]

1. Who appointed Harris judge and jury?

[bigtree]

9. she has a right to her opinion

...and she's not judging anyone here.

Not the accuser or Biden.

[democratisphere]

21. When you state you believe the accusers, it is inferred that

Joe Biden did something wrong, which he did not.

[brooklynite]

71. In which case, what right do people here have to be Judge and Jury?

[democratisphere]

78. We need to make sure the facts don't turn into so-called alternative facts.

There is a lot of that going on here.

[brooklynite]

88. But you have no more facts than Harris has...

Hasn't stopped people here from claiming:

1. They're lying...

2. They''re part of a conspiracy...

3. At least one Democratic candidate is part of the conspiracy...

[at140]

216. There was no problem accusing Gabbard of being a Russian agent

without any evidence. Did you make any posts protesting that act of judge and jury?
I won't hold my breath.

[pnwmom]

80. He invaded their privacy, by touching them in ways they didn't want,

without asking their permission.

I heard a wonderful story about him, where he comforted a woman by saying, "Can I give you a hug?" The solution is so simple. Ask. Don't grab women from behind and kiss them on their head. Don't rest your hand on their thigh.

Simply ask. "Is there anything I can do?" Or "Can I give you a hug?" Or "Are you okay? Can I help?" I'm sure he has said all those things at various times. He just needs to remember.

[louis c]

110. Look into the background of every one of our candidates

and they all have explaining to do. I don't need to list them here.

The difference between Biden and so many other of our candidates, is that he doesn't exploit those problems during a primary. Just as he didn't in 2008 and ended up on the Obama ticket.

That's because Biden is a Democrat, and an experienced one at that.

[Demsrule86]

24. I really liked her ...she and Beto were next on my list...but she is off My primary list.

[Demsrule86]

89. Sorry those who speak out against Democrats without waiting for full story are off my list.

[bigtree]

96. you're full-on attacking a Democrat

...for a standard expression of support offered countless women in this period where more and more are coming forward with their stories.

It's not 'Democratic' to use politics to stifle those expressions. It's just politically craven and opportunistic.

What Kamala has done is well in line with what the movement expects for women who are putting aside fear of recrimination to speak out and begin to heal.

Your political nonsense, not at all. She chose women, you chose partisan politics.

[louis c]

112. That's not an attack.

That's an observation.

How did Kamala advance her career and what was her relationship with a powerful married man?

Now, that's an attack

[louis c]

127. Right Wing. There's no truth to it?

Let me ask you something. If a woman obtains a promotion or a big job because she sleeps with a powerful, married man. And she obtains that job over a more qualified woman who refuses (or is not desirable enough for that powerful man), is the woman who slept with the man as guilty of sexual harassment as the powerful man who advanced the woman he slept with, even if it is consensual?

And, by the way, Kamala should have to explain this before she is nominated and Trump uses it against her.

Oh, I forgot. We can only attack Democratic men on this sight.

USA Today via San Francisco Chronicle (far from right wing rags):
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2019/01/27/willie-brown-kamala-harris-san-francisco-chronicle-letter/2695143002/

[louis c]

142. Doesn't Ms. Harris have to answer for that just as Joe Biden does.

If you think all of America is like DU, you will be rudely awakened after the convention.

Harris' affair should be dealt with now. Let's hear her explanation and what she would tell someone who applied for a position and was passed over because Willie Brown was dating Kamala. Willie freely admits he advanced Kamala's career while they were dating and he was married.

You don't think that story is going to be exploited by the Trump crowd once the election comes down to just the two of them?

If Joe needs to examine whether or not to stay in the race, so should Kamala. I remember an old story that concerns stones and glass houses that seems appropriate here.

[louis c]

150. Please link me to Kamala's reponse to the Brown story...

...I can't seem to find it anywhere.

[bigtree]

158. sure, it's at rightwingtroll.com

...

[louis c]

168. Just as I thought...

...a true story recited by Willie Brown and admitted to by Kamala Harris.

It's a "right wing troll" when it's your candidate. And it's just protecting women when It's mine.

Stones and Glass Houses.

[True Blue American]

205. Kamala did address the story when Willie came out

And boasted. He has always been a self aggrandizing politician.

On the other hand Kamala should not judge Biden. Especially when the allegations are so minor.

[mercuryblues]

187. when I read a post like this

I ask, what purpose does it serve? Who benefits from misrepresenting facts like this?

Brown had been separated from his wife for 10 years before he and Harris dated, in the 90's. He and his wife still have not divorced, in case you are truly interested in their marriage. You know who else Brown helped? Pelosi, Feinstein and Newsom. Unless you are implying that they too dated Brown, or perhaps he saw in her the same thing he saw in them...the potential, the smarts, the ambition.

Before he became mayor, Brown appointed her 2 commissions. They broke up just after he took office. They dated for about 1 year. As for implying she got those jobs because she was sleeping with him, brown is a known womanizer. Since he hands out positions to women based on sleeping with him, where are all those women?

Like I asked. who really benefits from these smears?

[Demsrule86]

122. No I am not. Should she be the nominee, she has my vote in the general but not the primary.

I am furious about me too being used in a political manner. It will destroy it. and women like myself won't be believed. She is off my primary list.

[Lazy Daisy]

182. The only candidate left for you is Joe Biden

If he decides not to run, there isn't anybody left for you to support.

[avebury]

173. You do realize, statistically speaking, the odds are that not all allegations are valid.

Some are valid and some are hit jobs. The Me Too Movement has created an atmosphere where people with agendas (vengeance, political hit jobs, and so on) can hide among the real victims. The movement has set up a situation where people are supposed to automatically say "I believe ____________) before a thoughtful review of an allegation is even made. Ultimately, this atmosphere does not bode well for true victims while allowing for some innocent men and/or women to be tarred and feathered along with the guilty.

Anybody, politicians included (it doesn't matter what party they belong to), who leap to the I believe her without thoughtful deliberation would make me wonder how great their judgement is overall. We saw what happened to Al Franken, they couldn't shove him out of the Senate fast enough. And what happened after that? Crickets. All the accusations went appeared to vanish.

Republicans are experts at getting Democrats to eat their own. That needs to stop.

[Thekaspervote]

106. Again.. agree completely

[Demsrule86]

124. Thank you.

[Demsrule86]

92. I do condemn such knee jerk support without foundation. I consder such

actions craven.

[bigtree]

99. all concern coming from you is political.

...not very convincing.

[Thekaspervote]

108. No it isn't all political... far from it. This is a Dem attacking another Dem

[bigtree]

121. no, this is a woman supporting another woman

...only someone with zero regard for the importance of supporting women speaking out about their experiences with unwanted touching and other advances would attack a woman for supporting other women speaking out.

[louis c]

128. Like she supported other women 20 years ago?

Please don't act so self-righteous. Kamala has plenty of baggage of her own.

Link:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2019/01/27/willie-brown-kamala-harris-san-francisco-chronicle-letter/2695143002/

[louis c]

146. Stones and glass houses

Kamala has plenty to answer for.

Willie Brown freely admits that he advanced Kamala's career while they were dating and he was married. If you think that this is not going to come up in the General Election, you're kidding yourself.

My point is that I am fully capable of explaining Kamala's side of the story against Trump. But, please, don't act like Biden is Jack the Ripper and Kamala is Mother Teresa. Every candidate has baggage.

Here's our slogan whether Biden is nominated or Kamala (or Biden-Harris and we have to defend both).

"Don't compare them to the Almighty. Compare them to the alternative."

[louis c]

149. Maybe you should have thought of that before you bashed Biden.

glass houses and stones, you know.

isn't this you?

this is a woman supporting another woman

...only someone with zero regard for the importance of supporting women speaking out about their experiences with unwanted touching and other advances would attack a woman for supporting other women speaking out.

[bigtree]

160. nowhere have I bashed Biden

...and refusing to join in the sycophantic orgy of recrimination against anyone with the temerity to support women speaking out isn't bashing, it's schadenfreude.

[louis c]

164. Ya, ya. you didn't bash Biden....

...except one would have to be an idiot not to know what you meant.

[Cha]

202. Do you call this "unwanted touching"

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[fleabiscuit]

204. More to the rabbit hole...

The 2nd link was a captured story...

Link to tweet

?s=20
—————

Link to tweet

?s=20

[Demsrule86]

130. I think Biden has the best chance to win...what I hoped for was a Biden/Harris ticket.

And if Biden didn't run than I supported Beto and/ or Harris...always been worried that a woman can't win a general. And I am a woman. but I liked Harris...look at my previous posts. I also like Klobachar...We must beat Trump. I won't support any Democrat in the primary that hurts other Democrats for unproven allegations...and this isn't even sexual harassment or anything close. Democratic candidates need to stop the circular firing squad. I don't support her as my second or third choice. But she has my vote in the General ….best I can do.

Also, the Me Too movement is important to me...and I hate like hell to see it weaponized.

[at140]

217. Did you stand up against unproven allegations against candidate Gabbard?

From your post, "I won't support any Democrat in the primary that hurts other Democrats for unproven allegations."
So, did you anytime in the past stand up for Tulsi Gabbard the democratic candidate from Hawaii and the only one to have seen combat duty? I saw only accusations against Tulsi, but no evidence.

[Demsrule86]

218. Actually I did...several times...she is a Democrat after all...don't see

how some of those posts are still here.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287232114#post19 others in this thread.


20."...she should stop the attacks on Gabbard...you really think a Russian plant goes on Military training missions? Gabbard is a Democrat...and Harris and others need to stop attacking her...with questionable stuff".



Response to Demsrule86 (Reply #21)Tue Aug 13, 2019, 08:31 AMday, I would vote for:
JOE BIDEN

Star Member AZ8theist (1,060 posts)

25. "to say Gabbard is a Democrat is a stretch....

A DINO maybe. The Jill Stein of 2020. Maybe that's why the Russian bots are flooding to her side."



Response to AZ8theist (Reply #25)Tue Aug 13, 2019, 03:18 PM
Star Member Demsrule86 (35,608 posts)

34. "Gabbard is an elected Democrat...she is in the military...Stein is a fucking third party spoiler

and is not a Democrat...I will take any Democrat over Stein any day. The Russian thing is a bit silly. She is in the military...I think that accusing a Democrat of being with the Russians... is wrong".

[at140]

219. In that case.....you are a great poster and I admire you...nt

[Demsrule86]

220. Thank you...very kind of you...took a great deal of flack for this. But Tulsi is a Democrat period.

I also don't believe she is involved with Russia. She is not a good politician and has made some mistakes.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

214. Totally agree. It also makes people sound so self-righteous. And they've all coopted the same

Bullshit. I would never tell Biden what to do yet I will stick my nose in and comment about .000000001% of the people he has encountered in his career perpetuating it all to hurt him. With friends like this who needs enemies. Especially from people who have plenty of their own explaining to do.

[Thekaspervote]

103. Off mine too!

[PatSeg]

104. I still really like her

but those comments just fell flat for me. They were not a total disqualifier, but she really could have done better and I hope that she does.

Top of my list right now would be Harris, Biden, Klobuchar, Warren, and Inslee, though not necessarily in that order and I'm sure I will change my preferences numerous times, especially during the debates.

[Demsrule86]

133. I hope she does better too. I am sick of Democrats destroying each other...leave that to the

Republicans. I would vote for any on this list in a general. Some I think have more of a chance than others.

[PatSeg]

175. Obviously

I would vote for any Democrat in the general, but I have to say there are a few that I do not expect to even come close. I have been a great admirer of Joe Biden for many years. He would have been my first choice in 2015-16 and I believe if he had run, Trump would not be in the White House today.

Meanwhile for those who are running, I would think better of them, if they treated fellow Democrats with more respect and dignity. Joe Biden certainly deserved better than "He's going to have to make that decision for himself. I wouldn’t tell him what to do." A tad bit snarky and dismissive for a man who has served honorably in government for decades and one of the most consequential vice presidents in history.

[Demsrule86]

180. I agree with everything you say.

[PatSeg]

181. I tend to find Biden folks to be very agreeable!

A bunch of us from 2007-08 are still very close friends. We don't always agree about everything, but we always agree about Joe.

[trueblue2007]

143. I AM VERY DISAPPOINTED IN HER NOW. I will go for UNDECIDED NOW. Taking her picture off my name

[Demsrule86]

162. I don't think you have to do that...see what happpens in the coming days. I will be watching. She is

very impressive and many Democrats have fallen into this trap sadly.

[Peace06]

206. If you can't say something nice......

I was going to say the same. I am also disappointed in her as well as Beto. The Democratic candidates motto should be what we learned in kindergarten, " If you can't say something nice, say nothing at all." Trashing other Democratic candidates makes the trasher look small. They can just say "No comment".

[cstanleytech]

52. True but I am willing to wager a number of people are going to be wondering if she is

trying to throw him under the bus because she is seeking the same nomination that he is.

[bigtree]

85. if you start with the same support Biden offered his accuser for making her public complaint

...it's hard to see how you go from that understanding he expressed to throwing Kamala under a bus for doing the same.

[Demsrule86]

94. Why would Biden support a politically motivated attack against him.

[bigtree]

100. read his statement.

...He unequivocally expressed support for these womens' right to speak out.

He has NOT lashed out politically and otherwise like you are here, looking to divide people who disagree with you from Democratic politics.

[Demsrule86]

134. I have read it... anyone can say anthing but I have the right to believe their statements cause

harm to our 20 chances and are politically motivated. It is also destructive in terms of the me too movement in my opinion and unfair to Biden. if we lose in 20, this will be the pivotal moment when a candidate that could win was destroyed for nothing. I am not joking. I think Beto has a shot maybe but not as good as Joe...but I don't believe any of the others can take the three states we need for various reasons and win a general.

[bigtree]

138. read it again:

...

“I may not recall these moments the same way, and I may be surprised at what I hear. But we have arrived at an important time when women feel that they can and should relate their experiences, and men should pay attention, and I will,”

You clearly DO NOT support Biden's statement in your efforts here.

[Demsrule86]

141. I am a woman and I was sexually assaulted ...sent to the hospital. my attacker was not charged as I

had gone to a bar (asking for it as they say). And I say this sort of politically motivated attack will destroy me too and cost us 2020. Does my voice matter?

[Demsrule86]

153. Ok...I argue with the best of them...and enjoy it. But you have proven my point in a way...only

some voices matter. My opinion that these complaints which I do believe are politically motivated have weaponized me too and will ultimately destroy it...are worthless apparently. Well Flores had a touch on her shoulder, I spent quite a bit of time in the hospital but hey it is all good. You answered the question...appreciate it. Have a nice day.

[bigtree]

156. well, I'm not convinced

...and I don't think you've made the case that your experience speaks to your efforts here to condemn women for supporting other women in their revelations.

The consistency in support for women who speak out is the most striking thing about Kamala Harris' statement. I appreciate that she's not trying to carve out political room where women can be silenced with impunity to protect some politician.

[Demsrule86]

161. I never made that assertation. I am a political junky...and of course politics matter. But the fear

that accusations like these will destroy the me to movement are not politically motivated. This has been very difficult for me because I believe that these women marginalize what happened to me. And I resent it. Sure I like Biden but I would vote for any who are running in a general even Tulsi who is my least favorite candidate. I don't really feel the need to convince you. Honestly, I doubt you could understand my perspective even if I was a more gifted speaker or writer than I am.

[bigtree]

166. you should realize that not all women who complain publicly are immediately verified

...in their claims.

Some pan out, others don't. Many of the revelations are from incidents occurring in the distant past. 'Believing' their accounts costs nothing, but is an encouragement for others to come forward.

Not believing women has been a shameful standard of the past. The movement adopted a determination to 'believe' women, mostly because of that insensitivity and the stifling effect it has had on women coming forward.

I've seen very little to suggest to me that these accusers shouldn't be supported in coming forward. The political affiliation is a misnomer, given that most Democrats and folks here had no problem with the political affiliations of Kavanaugh's accuser. This is a partisan defense of a politician, risking unraveling the support generated by the movement for politics' sake.

The consistent position is to support women by 'believing' their stories when they relate them, even if they happen to fall on our favorite politician. It's the least we can do to establish space for women to come forward and share their experiences without fear of recrimination.

[Merlot]

10. Everyone is allowed to decide who and what to believe.

"I believe them and I respect them being able to tell their story and having the courage to do it," Harris said at a presidential campaign event in Nevada.

The California senator added that Biden will need to decide for himself whether to run for president.

[democratisphere]

31. Quite a departure from what Nancy Pelosi said; not a disqualifier for running for President.

[USALiberal]

12. Who made you that? Nt

[democratisphere]

34. With no evidence or due process you've got nothing, specially many years later.

[pnwmom]

74. She has the same right as any of us. n/t

[democratisphere]

84. The right of a so-called Democrat to smear a Democratic Vice President over nothing?!

[pnwmom]

87. He isn't being accused of a crime or an intentional act, so it's not a smear.

Harris believes he did some things that made some women uncomfortable. No one thinks he did them to be mean. Saying he didn't understand isn't a smear.

[Demsrule86]

136. It is one of the worst smears I have ever seen...in that it is a 'feeling' which is hard to defend

against.

[DownriverDem]

77. I don't believe Harris

There goes my idea about a Biden/Harris ticket. In fact I have a low opinion of her now.

[PatSeg]

109. You know

Should Joe end up being our nominee down the road, no one will remember what she just said and I'm quite sure, she would jump at the chance to be his running mate. It still sounds like a great ticket.

[OregonBlue]

107. I believe them too. He made them incomfortable. That does not

mean he did something bad or wrong. Just something slightly clueless. His intensions were still good. Of course, since she is his opponent she will take what she can get.

I was very impressed that candidate Castro last night did not go there when asked. He said he knows Biden is a good man and he was sure he would never do anything he thought would make people uncomfortable or harm them or something like that. He didn't take the bait!! Good guy.

[secondwind]

208. This is disappointing. I respect and admire Harris, but I wish she had not said this.

[LongtimeAZDem]

2. And so, she joins the smear

[Baclava]

3. Not surprising, she believed the Al Franken accusers too n/t

[FiveGoodMen]

40. Yeah, that's the problem I have with her

[Baclava]

41. There's no group hugs in politics, its everyone for themselves, these little rifts just confirm that

She could have just said thats she supports Joe and he will have her support if he decides to run and still give room to support accusers as is their right.

"It's up to him to decide if he runs" is a cold drink splash to the face to me, sounds ugly

[PatSeg]

113. Yep

That's the part that rubbed me the wrong way. It reminds me of 2008 when Hillary was asked if she thought Obama was a Christian. Instead of just saying, "Of course I do", she came up with a very loaded political answer, "If he says he is, I take his word for it". Paraphrasing here of course, but it left me cold and at the time, I actually preferred her over Obama.

"It's up to him to decide if he runs" left me with the same bad taste in my mouth.

[pnwmom]

212. 32 Democratic Senators signed the letter that day, including ALL of the women Senators

except Amy Klobuchar, who said that she was staying neutral because they worked together to represent the same state.

[Turbineguy]

4. I believe them too.

So we have to decide. Can we help two people overcome their discomfort?

Or do we put people in cages, collapse the economy and destroy the planet?

It's a question of proportion, balance, and priorities.

[True Dough]

7. Exactly. It's not mutually exclusive

You can believe the women felt uncomfortable due to Biden's actions and that Biden didn't intend to make them feel that way. As Nancy Pelosi said, it shouldn't disqualify Joe from seeking the nomination but it sure should put an end to his touchy-feely tendencies when he's around women who he doesn't know or who haven't given consent or invited his touch.

[PDittie]

39. I don't think

your first choice is going to be on the ballot in any way, shape, or form.

Any choice other than the second is what everyone in this forum is going to be choosing anyway.

So I'm not seeing proportion, balance, or priorities except as it relates to a first choice that differs from yours. But with regard to the one you suggested .... the two people needing to overcome their discomfort -- as you phrase it -- will have to work that out for themselves. I just think I'll have a marginal, limited role in providing assistance in that regard.

[Trenzalore]

5. I am changing to undecided from Harris and I have stopped my biweekly donation

[qazplm135]

6. I mean I don't think they are lying either

I just don't think they rise to the level folks seem to want them to rise to.

[JaneQPublic]

15. I agree.

It's an insult to victims of actual sexual harassment/assault to equate what they went through with what Biden did: merely invading another's person's space or touching him/her in a non-sexual way without prior consent.

So, yeah, I believe the accusers; I just believe what they're describing is socially awkward/inappropriate behavior, not anything that disqualifies anyone from a job.

[Eyeball_Kid]

56. Well said. n/t

[Dream Girl]

8. She just lost me. I'm beginning to see her as too calculating and crafty by half

Some of the same characteristics I didn’t care for with Hillary.

[LongtimeAZDem]

14. I was Biden/Harris until this morning

She could have said, "I believe them and I respect them being able to tell their story and having the courage to do it, but I also know and respect my friend Joe Biden, and I believe that he never meant to cause them any discomfort."

Instead, she threw him under the bus. To hell with her.

[MelissaB]

25. I agree with everything you said. She could have handled this better

and threw Joe under the bus.

[Cha]

27. Yeah, I know.. I didn't like

the way she worded that, either. They all just want to get rid of Joe Biden.. which makes sense from their perspective, I guess.

But, it would have been nice for someone doing it respectfully.

[PatSeg]

119. Oh yes

I like your version MUCH better! These Democratic candidates need to be publicly more supportive of other Democrats. They never know which voters they are pissing off and in the case of Joe, there are millions of people, who have a high regard for him even if he might not be their first choice.

You should be a political consultant!

[BooScout]

11. This is disturbing...

I'm not a particular Biden fan. I have issues with his waffling on abortion and his handling of Anita Hill. I currently support Harris and I consider myself to be a Feminist.

All that being said...this controversy strongly reeks of being a set up...and a particularly nasty one. This isn't right. We are quite possibly shooting ourselves in the foot and have probably destroyed Biden's reputation in the process.

[Trenzalore]

13. She lost me

If it ends up a two person race between Sanders and her I will support her but I have stopped donating.

I am thinking about giving the bi weekly money I was giving to her to Mayor Pete.

[Cha]

16. Bi-Weekly.. that's really

generous.. Good on you!

[Trenzalore]

18. I wouldn't go that far

I get paid and I send a few bucks to democrats. I don't have time to volunteer anymore so it is really all I can do.

[avebury]

42. I really like Mayor Pete and am rooting for him, probably

because he doesn't have a lot of the baggage that a lot of the other candidates have. He is smart/sharp, well spoken, military experience, well rounded, from the Mid-West and would provide a stunning difference from the Buffoon In Chief. I think that the Rethug political operatives would have a hard time dirtying him up. He may be young but there is no doubt that he would be the grown up in the room in a Presidential debate against Trump.

The candidates who are big players in the Me Two movement really turn me off.

[wryter2000]

55. It's Al Franken all over again

I'm still with her, but she has to stop this. It's disrespectful to survivors of real aggression.

[sunnybrook]

79. I agree

I'm so disappointed in her jumping on this bandwagon

[wryter2000]

135. Maybe it's time I called her office

Again

[MBS]

95. "disrespectful to survivors of real aggression"

This is exactly why these incidents disturb me so much.

[avebury]

17. The problem with the Me To movement is that we have swung from

real victims feeling like they cannot speak out to open season for any woman to make a claim. There is pressure for people to say "I find ______________ credible" before a claim is actually investigated. And the knives are then sunk into the accused. Yes there are valid claims out there but, statistically speaking, not all claims would prove valid if properly researched. Vindictive women/political hacks will hide amongst the real victims and perform hit jobs on their accused.

The hit jobs can result in the stories of the real female victims not being taken seriously as well as some innocent men being tarred and feathered with the real perpetrators. When I see Democrat candidates jump on the band wagon to tar and feather our own (like Al Franken and Joe Biden), I am less inclined to vote for them. When on earth will they ever learn to stop eating our own and being played by the Rethugs political operatives.

[Cha]

19. I agree.. thank you, avebury.

[secondwind]

209. Very well said.

[Demsrule86]

20. Damn I liked her .

[lark]

22. OK, subtract points for this lame response.

Sadly, after the last few days, my new top 3 are

Biden
Mayor Pete
Amy Klobuchar


Looking forward to the debates, to seeing who will really be in the race and what they have to say. I'm at a very persuadable place, seriously considered Undecided, but since more than anything, beating drumpf is the goal, I went with Joe instead because he's got the best chance of taking down Cheetolini. IF he's not in it, I can really be won over by most of the field.

Even if one of the ones I don't like win, I will vote for them in the General. My crazy Aussie Shepherd would be a MUCH better president that Hair Furor, so will have zero issues working for our candidate and the party in the run-up to the general

[geardaddy]

50. Klobuchar said she believes the two women. n/t

[LexVegas]

23. Rec. nt

[FarPoint]

26. She's pandering....

She lost my support.....

[awesomerwb1]

28. Wrong answer

Why is it so hard for Dems to have a more unified diplomatic message?

[sfwriter]

90. In a vacuum, what's to be expected?

Biden hasn’t responded in any meaningful way.

[Polly Hennessey]

29. Oops!! There goes Harris.

She now joins Warren, Castro, Gillibrand. Sanders was never on my horizon. Beto, Biden, and Buttigieg ( the three Bs) are looking better every day.

[LexVegas]

33. Klobuchar goes too. Don't forget her!

[Polly Hennessey]

151. I guess I already have forgotten her.

[Power 2 the People]

30. I think she'll probably say something complimentary about VP Biden today or tomorrow.

[TheCowsCameHome]

36. You can't unring the bell.

Especially in politics.

[Miles Archer]

32. What I know about Joe Biden

Joe did not purchase a teenage beauty pageant so he could go backstage and ogle various under-aged girls in various states of undress, because as the pageant owner, he had to "inspect the merchandise."

To the best of my knowledge, Joe did not arrange for his "fixer" to pay off a porn star and a playmate.

Also, I have not seen or heard an Access Hollywood tape featuring Joe gloating about the things he can get away with because he's "famous."

I am obviously not running in the primary. If I were, I might say something like "This is none of my business." It IS a decision he's going to have to make. I would not speculate about his motives or intent or the "gravity" of the situation. I'd stay the hell out of it.

I don't know him, so I can't "defend" him, but I also don't know the truth of what happened. But one thing's for sure...I don't see his actions as being in the same league as those of the oaf in the Oval Office.

[TheCowsCameHome]

35. Another good one steps into the quicksand.

Jesus, will they ever learn?

[Celerity]

37. a Biden/Harris ticket's odds just took a massive hit

Really surprised to see her go there. She was one of my favourites, not so sure now. I am not at all a Biden primary supporter (for pure policy and voting reasons), but this entire thing doesn't smell right (not Harris per se) to me.

[Jakes Progress]

195. I think that was the goal

of the people who started this - taking out two high contenders at once. I'm disappointed that Harris fell for it.

[Jarqui]

38. I fear the pendulum is swinging too far the other way

I regard myself as very sympathetic to people alleging they've been sexually assaulted.
But this is starting to bother me.

Who here thinks Barack & Michele Obama would tolerate a pervert running around their White House feeling up women and their daughters? Biden was there for eight years - under the same roof. He & his wife became very good friends with the Obamas. I've watched the man since the 70s. I don't buy this crap is as sinister as is being loosely implied in the media.

Contrast that with another VP, Dick Cheney advocating for torture and tricking the world into looking for weapons of mass destruction that he knew were not there. The comparison is stark. One man is almost pure evil. The other man's big sin is he demonstrates his affection/emotions with no sexual touching that makes the odd person a little uncomfortable.

Contrast that with the man about to crack 10,000 lies or misleading statements: the Pussy-Grabber-In-Chief who consorts with the Russians and criminals to rig elections, lies and covers it up and does stupid crap nearly every single day - including threatening to kill Obamacare which could kill about 40,000 Americans without healthcare over the next couple of years.

I think we're hurting a pretty good man with false equivalences in the time the media is devoting to this vs the severity.

If we're going to jump down the throat of every tweet against our candidates, then you'd better start thinking about another four years of Donald Trump. Because that is precisely what we're flirting with.

[bigtree]

43. every woman candidate expressing support dragged under the Biden supporter bus

...no one sees a problem with this?

Women supporting other women? Unheard of, right?

[Jakes Progress]

45. You could just as easily

said every other Democrat dragged under the Harris supporter bus. If you support women just by virtue of their being women, do you support ivanka and kellyann?

[bigtree]

53. what bullshit

...Harris hasn't attacked any campaign, or supporter.

[Jakes Progress]

191. what bullshit

Harris (who was my number two pick) is not dumb. She knew the dog whistle she was blowing. She is savvy and politically aware. That's why I liked her. (Actually she is still high in my list) But if you want to say that she had no idea that her statement would cast doubt on Biden's candidacy (he's near the bottom of my list), they you argue that she is a naive noobie who doesn't have the smarts to run for president.

Nope. She's smart. She knew what she was doing even if you don't.

[Jakes Progress]

44. That's a shame. Smacks of the lust

for office that followed the breitbart hit job on Al. Kristen caught most of the flack on that because she was the first and most eager. Now Kamala jumps on the wagon here to be early on.

1. Doesn't seem too loyal to the party.
2. Shows a little too much ambition over principle.
3. Sort of indicates a gullibility to political tricks. (They should watch Nancy for how to handle political skullduggery.)

She as high on my list. Now somewhat lower.

[hughee99]

48. You know Warren said basically the same thing a few days ago, right?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.boston.com/news/politics/2019/04/01/elizabeth-warren-joe-biden-lucy-flores/amp

[Jakes Progress]

192. Yep.

And she fell for the Franken scam too.

Not looking too good for many of our choices.

I'm not a Biden man, but the dumbness of this ploy is disheartening. Is this the best we can do. I can find many reasons to not back Joe, but trying to paint him as a trumpish or lauerish molester is just stupid. Piling on is desperate. Plus it is counter productive. I think that what most are seeing as Bernie supporters going off script will only goad Joe into running. The promulgators thought it would keep him out. Now he will run and the republicans have been given crap to throw. Just stupid. Do Democrats not have any bright campaign directors?.

[tonedevil]

49. How does Senator Harris' statement...

on the subject differ from Senator Warren's?

[Jakes Progress]

193. See post 192.

[bigtree]

54. Warren said essentially the same thing

...and she doubled down.

[Jakes Progress]

194. Lot of "but everybody else is doing it" here.

See post 192.

[namahage]

62. Help me out here. Which of these came first?

Yesterday, or

March 30, 2019?

Asked by a reporter if the allegations should bar the Biden from entering the 2020 Democratic race, Warren responded, "that's for Joe Biden to decide."
Pushed further if it disqualifies any male candidate accused of inappropriate behavior from running, Warren said the final decision will be up to the voters.
"That is their decision whether or not to run, and it'll be up to Democratic voters whether or not to support someone. That's the process."

[Celerity]

65. I guess Warren takes the Gillibrand Franken Memorial Award for first out of the gate

This whole madness needs to stop (NOT saying you are doing anything at all!). We all need to be debating policy and how we can improve the lives of Americans after the cyclone of shit known as the Trump Presidency.

[brooklynite]

75. You forgot Warren, Klobuchar, Castro, Hickenlooper, Delaney.....

[Celerity]

86. correct me if I am wrong, but was not Warren the first declared candidate to comment on the Biden

thing? I maybe missed another who said something before she did. My apologies if I did.

[brooklynite]

93. Not that I'm aware of.

[Tipperary]

46. A shame. That drops her on my list.

Damn.

[workinclasszero]

47. Well there you go

I guess the false narrative around here that these stories are coming from a certain camp will have to change now.

[LuvNewcastle]

64. Exactly what I was thinking.

[workinclasszero]

83. It took some political courage to take that position

I can respect Kamala Harris for that.

[LuvNewcastle]

102. She obviously wants to win.

Looks like she'll do whatever it takes.

[LongtimeAZDem]

82. No, but Sanders must be happy the spotlight is off of the pervasive culture of sexual harassment in

his campaign.

[workinclasszero]

91. He dealt with that unlike others

And it wasn't Bernie personally either.

Unlike others.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/02/26/sexual-harassment-claim-painful-bernie-sanders-town-hall-sot-vpx.cnn

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

51. There's a difference between believing them - that what they said happened

did happen - and the inference that those actions were sexually predatory, which is what some want us to believe.

[catbyte]

57. How disappointing. Her "he'll have to decide for himself" comment was very off-putting, inferring

that if he were a "decent" person he wouldn't run. I really don't like it. They're making a mountain out of a molehill and I'm so sick of that shit. Come on. Not one of these women said that they thought it was sexual in any way. Harris just fell several pegs in my mind.

[karynnj]

67. I agree -- and, if it were me, those type of comments would make me JUMP IN

If Biden was really nearing the decision to enter, not entering now means that this may be the last part of his story with many later reading more into these attacks because they knocked him out. For Biden, this might be a replay of the plagiarism related to not crediting Neil Kinnock when quoting him in a stump speech, where he routinely credited him. He dropped out then rather than more forcefully pointing out what had happened.

[rainin]

58. That DOES NOT work for me. Is she anti-male? An opportunist?

We have to be capable of a more nuanced assessment. This is really shitty and she in my top 3. "WAS"

[madaboutharry]

59. Not being able to give a more nuanced answer

and choosing to jump on a band wagon is a bad sign that shows a lack of leadership.

I donated to Harris and I am sorry I did. I learned that I need to sit back and wait before I give a politician my money. This isn’t the first time I have been disappointed in her response to something. I’m beginning to feel she doesn’t step back and think things through.

[mfcorey1]

60. Another dem has lunch wiith a fellow dem on the plate. Let me draw a line thru Kamala Harris' name

for the primary!

[DallasNE]

61. I Would Never Go So Far

As to do what Biden has done in several photographs with women barely known. But it is silly to lump his sometimes boorish behavior in with actual sexual harassment. It will not be a factor in my decision.

[Hassler]

63. It worked with Franken, so why not?

[allgood33]

66. Both she and Warren just went down two notches on my preference.

What do they mean when people say I believe the women? In this case, you can only believe that the women were made to feel "uncomfortable" "creepy" "embarrassed" "confused." What else is there to believe? You also, have to believe that Biden made no sexually harassing or sexually assaulting moves on them because that is what they all said. So where does that leave you?

It leave you with a pretty good political hit job against Joe Biden.

If I feel uncomfortable with ANYONE, male or female, touchy me or invading my space it is not that difficult to say, "Please don't crowd me" or "Please don't touch me like that." Did any of these professional women even try to confront Biden for making them feel uncomfortable? All the hype has made Biden appear to be some kind of sexual predator in the weak minds of many.

Where do we go with all of this. it really is time for Biden to speak out strongly in his own defense. But I am really disappointed in the responses coming from many of our candidates at this point.

[louis c]

68. Harris will have to walk those words back...

...when Biden chooses her for VP.

[LongtimeAZDem]

98. I no longer want to see that happen

[BigOleDummy]

69. I guess...

… I'm with what it appears to be the majority here. I think she went "there" much too quickly. Yes, I know Ms. Warren said essentially the same and I am very disappointed by that. I dreamed of a Warren/Harris or Warren/Mayor Pete ticket but it looks like I may be having to re-think. I find nothing wrong with Mr. Biden and actually like him but I really believe his time has passed. We need a newer younger ticket I sincerely believe. Mayor Pete is looking better and better to me, this man is a force of nature.

[the_sly_pig]

70. I believe the accusers when they say they felt uncomfortable too....

Plenty of folk feel uncomfortable every day, including me. I feel bad that people experience discomfort. For perspective, I compare my discomfort to people experiencing discomfort in other parts of the world. Then I remember that my discomfort is more of a nuisance than actual discomfort. Then I feel better and move on.

[hlthe2b]

72. As we've seen among DUers, some are using "believe" as synonymous with "taking seriously"

and willing to "listen". Just as I did with Flores. But, having done so, after watching her repeatedly tell her story, seeing the photos of her putting her own hands on Biden and her attempts to conflate non-sexual contact with something far worse, I find her to be beyond the pale and self-serving for whatever motivation.

So, yeah, I initially listened and took her claims seriously or "believed her" if you want to conflate those terms, but now, umm, no. Hopefully, Harris and the other candidates have now had the chance to watch and listen to her claims and have evolved as well, whether they address it again or not. My guess is that they will not (address it again)

[The Wizard]

73. How many times will Democrats cave into

Republican dirty tricks? Al Gore bought the line that Bill Clinton was radioactive and distanced himself from him. Barack Obama fired Van Jones and Shirley Sherrod and also dismantled ACORN because of Republican dirty tricks. Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
The Me Too movement opens the door to abuse by political adversaries. Democrats reflexively panic and demand apologies and resignations without a fair hearing out of fear that Republicans will use a false narrative against them.
Note to Democrats, especially the leadership: No matter the candidate or issue, Republicans will broadcast lies with their very effective propaganda operation.

[FreeState]

81. I find this disturbing

And by this I mean the discussions above. We know through years of research the best thing to do it to believe survivors. We are no better than the other side when we cast aside knowledge in pursuit of power.

https://www.domesticshelters.org/articles/domestic-violence/why-we-must-believe-survivors

[athena]

114. I agree. The sexism on DU is toxic.

(For those who have never read anything about sexism, both men and women can be sexist. Most men and most women are sexist. If you’re not actively fighting your sexist tendencies, you are sexist. And we’re talking about misogyny here, not about some DUers’ fantasies about how women are supposedly more powerful than men.)

When I heard about the latest news about Biden, I was vaguely curious about how the Biden lovers on DU would take it. I expected that they would be in denial. I didn’t quite expect that they would be attacking Harris.

Go ahead, DUers, and revel in your hatred and resentment of powerful women. Your Hillary hatred gave us Trump in 2016. Feel free to attack our strongest female candidates in 2020. Enjoy Trump’s second term. Hatred of women feels good, doesn’t it?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

211. Yikes...

[chowder66]

120. A survivor of a kiss on the head? A survivor for being uncomfortable?

How does that compare to a child who is sexually molested for years or a woman who is raped?

This is about personal space and personal discomforts.
As an adult she has had every opportunity to state her discomfort to that person. Others who go through much more 'discomfort' or violence do NOT have that opportunity much of the time. There is nothing violent about Biden. He's been doing this his whole life. Is he overly affectionate? To some, obviously; but not to most, otherwise there would be a cascade of reports. And if that cascade is him comforting or greeting people too affectionally it still doesn't meet the bar of assault.

There are some people I wish didn't touch me and there are others I don't mind. No one can read my mind. If I'm uncomfortable, I either say something, stay away or grumble about it to friends. Sometimes it even makes a weird story. But I don't think of people who don't know personal social boundaries of every person they engage with as creeps or perverts unless there is more to it.

Some may actually be creepy ...but so are those that never encroach on someone's space. Adults really need to speak up or make arrangements to avoid further discomfort and if they can't they need to talk to someone who can help them or do it for them.

There has also been a movement in the past about men opening doors for women that didn't want them too. Well I for one thinks it's courteous and open the door for everyone if I'm at the door first. Should anyone who did this that's running apologize for that?

I'm really frustrated by the gnashing of teeth over this. It's just not the same thing and should not be lumped in with the Me Too Movement.

It's just gone too far in my opinion and as a survivor I'm getting really angry about this as some sort of "survivable situation'.

'This' is human interaction and it's not always comfortable or perfect. If you tell someone you were or are uncomfortable, most people will listen and apologize. Many people also appreciate affection, I don't know a lot of people who think a lack of affection is a virtue. Interacting with people can be messy but this isn't one of those things that should be elevated to the level of crisis.

[PatSeg]

125. Well said

[athena]

140. The fact that murder is bad doesn't make theft acceptable.

I don’t want to live in a world where men freely touch women’s thighs and waists and arms and give them unwelcome hugs and kisses and squeezes. We are not pieces of meat. And sometimes a person is too shocked to respond immediately but later feels bad that some strange man grabbed her. I don’t want to have to explain to every man I meet that I don’t want to be touched. They should develop some respect and empathy and pick up from my behavior that I don’t want to be touched.

If it’s disrespectful or weird to do something to a man you are not sexually involved with, it’s unacceptable to do it to a woman you’re not sexually involved with. Period. Stating that women should be treated with as much respect as men does not in any way take away from the seriousness of rape or sexual assault. Quite the contrary. Rape and sexual assault are part of the culture of misogyny that says that it’s OK to treat women like pieces of meat.

[loyalsister]

163. And

When someone has been violently raped, or molested as a child, or experienced job loss over rejecting advances of male colleagues or employers, touches that feel even slightly intrusive can be even worse than uncomfortable.

With me too, we know for a fact that this means tens of millions of women may experience these touches differently from what is intended.

Knowing this was helping us move into an era where these experiences are no longer a normal part of life such women have to accept so as not to inconvenience powerful people.
Now, we have discovered that the numerical reality means men we like (ie. John Conyers, Charlie Rose, Kevin Spacey....) didn't realize they had been a part of it and will be faced with viewing their past behavior in accordance with today's norms.

From what I have seen Joe Biden understands that. I don't see why this attack on women that imposes a judgement of "legitimate" personal perception of an experience is circulating.

It's possible to decide on what it means to us without taking it personally and demonizing the women who have talked publicly about their feelings on it.

[crimycarny]

165. Thank you!

You expressed my own frustrations perfectly!

The Me Too movement is only cheapened by stories like this becoming elevated to sexual assault. I have worked in a male-dominated field for over 30 years. I've had my own experiences with creeps, but without exception, every creepy experience was done when no one else was around--not in front of a crowd with cameras rolling! That, in my opinion, speaks to intent on the part of the offender. If Joe Biden knowingly did something meant as some sort of creepy "feel up", he would not have done it in full view of a crowd with video and pictures being taken! That alone tells me he had no idea he was making anyone "uncomfortable". And, as others have pointed out, we can find just as many "awkward" pictures of Joe Biden hugging or putting his hands on the shoulders of men.

[Demsrule86]

170. I am a survivior too...and this entire thing makes me so angry... what she survived a touch on her

shoulder...and uncomfortable moment? Her words are an insult to survivors and endanger the me too movement.

[jaceaf]

198. agreed - we can't believe in one thing till it hits one of our own

People can decide if it's a make it or break it but we have to listen to victims. And I am upset when people aren't listened to or nothing is done about it.

If Biden learns something about personal space, great, he's from another generation and needed to hear it.

If Sander's scandal helped him hire more women, great. Something's changed.

Please do not try to silence women. This has been a big disappointment.

[BeyondGeography]

97. And somewhere, Larry Wallace is smirking

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/kamala-harris-larry-wallace-aide-staffer-resigns-california-senate-1246402%3famp=1

[Funtatlaguy]

101. The best comment would be no comment

No win situation for other candidates to touch this subject right now.

[PatSeg]

123. Yes

There clearly are times with "less is more" and this would be one of them.

[elleng]

105. I believe them too, they felt 'uncomfortable.'

That is NOT significant, as his behavior was perfectly reasonable.

Sorry she said this, as it generates headlines like this.

We are DOOMED, EATING OUR OWN.

[stonecutter357]

111. lol fail !

[MineralMan]

117. That's pretty much over the line, I think.

Pervy? Not right with his brain? Nope. No, thanks.

[MineralMan]

116. Well, that's mighty big of her to allow him to make that decision.

Dear Ms. Harris,

You can do better than that.

Sincerely,

MineralMan

[brooklynite]

126. FINALLY: Someone stands up for Joe Biden.....

Lindsey Graham

Graham defends Biden amid allegations: He means nothing bad

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/437198-graham-collins-defend-biden-he-means-nothing-bad

[Cha]

200. Read the forum.. there are a lot of

honorable people "standing up for Joe Biden".

[pangaia]

129. Thanks for nothing Kamala Harris..

You just dropped 22% on my scorecard..

[Kanoko]

137. I don't think Harris wants Biden to run.

If he does run she'll harness the MeToo voters.

[CentralMass]

139. Maybe I've lived a sheltered existence but i view this thing like this.

Joe Biden is a likeable if not loveable guy.
He has made his gaffs over the years but most people do not doubt his heart or intent as being anything but well intentioned.

However, looking at the issue that flared up, I find the hair sniffing show of affection or encouragement or whatever it is as odd in my personal experience of 59 years. He does it. He did it at that Nevada event that Lucy Flores claimed he did it to her. I like Joe Biden and can look past that particular habit. However i think it is perfectly acceptable for someone to be freaked out by it . Kamala Harris should not get hammered for believing these women.

[madville]

145. She sees an opportunity to hobble her competition

That's what it boils down to. It worked with the Franken accusations, she slid right into his spot on the Senate judiciary committee when they forced him to resign.

[Indykatie]

152. This is Sheer Opportunism on Harris's Part

I'm a Biden supporter but it's disappointing to see Harris lack the judgement to understand that women feeling uncomfortable by Biden (who also behaves the same way with men in Public) does not rise to the level of behavior that would disqualify him from running. I don't want a POTUS who isn't capable of nuance.

[Andy823]

154. Another hit and run post.

Nothing but flame bait.

[jalan48]

159. Posting the exact words of a candidate for POTUS is not hit and run.

[Kingofalldems]

169. It's over now. Time to move on.

[jalan48]

172. Adios.

[Andy823]

174. OK, then this one should be OK also

https://www.salon.com/2019/03/31/bernie-sanders-supports-joe-bidens-accuser-we-need-to-change-the-culture-of-this-country/


""I have no reason not to believe Lucy," Sanders told "Face the Nation" when asked about the accusation by former Nevada assemblywoman Lucy Flores. "And I think what this speaks to is the need to fundamentally change the culture of this country and to create environments where women feel comfortable and feel safe. And that's something we've got to do."

[jalan48]

176. So Harris's statement is about Bernie Sanders now?

[Andy823]

179. You started a thread

Just to point out what Harris said, I simply posted pretty much the same statement from Bernie. Just his own words.

At least I didn't start a whole thread about what he said.

[jalan48]

184. Meh, whataboutism.

[namahage]

177. As is this:

When asked if he thought Biden should refrain from running for president in 2020 because of Flores' accusations, Sanders demurred from saying that it was disqualifying.

"Well, I think that's a decision for the vice president to make. I'm not sure that one incident alone disqualifies anybody," Sanders explained.

[TruckFump]

155. I am very disappointed that Harris did this.

I thought better of her and I am considering switching to "Undecided."

[MicaelS]

157. Well that changes my choice.

I am now for Biden.

[Grasswire2]

178. my ONLY consideration is who polls best against Trump.

And any candidate who participates in primary crossfire against the candidate polling best against Trump is someone I will never support.

[Quixote1818]

183. I am kind of where you are too. Not taking any chances this round. nt

[Liberal Veteran]

185. You know, I don't like being touched by anyone other than my spouse.

People have even mentioned to me that I "flinch" a little or tense up when people touch me. Weird, right? Not so much if I bump into someone on a busy street or in a crowd, but when someone reaches out to touch me or hug me.

I am a very caring person with enormous empathy for others, but I have this issue with people getting into my bubble.

To be honest, 90 percent of the times I can remember being touched unexpectedly, it's been initiated by a woman (I'm a guy). It'll be a touch on the shoulder or grasp of the hands or forearm, or a hug or a pat on the cheek or back, once or twice a unexpected peck on the cheek, or pulling my hand to their heart (eek! Breasts! Panic!)

And most of the time, at the time, it's very uncomfortable for me for a moment or two.

You know what, though. That's MY PROBLEM. Not once did anyone mean anything more than platonic human contact.

Doesn't mean in that instant, I wasn't very uncomfortable, but then I kinda shrug it off, take things in the context in which they happened and go on with life.

I guess what I am trying to say is that this isn't just male-on-female thing and maybe they did feel uncomfortable because it was more intimate than they would like, but I have learned in my little over a half century of life that some people are just a little bit more touchy-feeling and tactile in their expressions of emotions and my discomfort is not their fault.

It is something about ME.

[LongtimeAZDem]

186. Well said; this is what grown-ups do

[tonedevil]

207. I too flinch...

and squirm at unexpected touch. I do not like strangers touching or hugging me and I feel it should be my right to refrain even if hug appreciation is considered the default. There is no reason I should put up with that, yet expressing my dislike has resulted in me being shamed for not joining in. I'm not really sympathetic to the huggers especially if they are adamant in their right to direct someone else's bodily autonomy.

[pnwmom]

213. The touches you describe could be avoided by stepping away, unlike the surprise kiss

Biden gave to Lucy Flores, for example, approaching her from behind and kissing her on the top of her head. By approaching her that way, he had no way of knowing that she would welcome the attention or not. He just assumed she would.

It's not just a question of unwanted intimacy, it's the dynamic of the older, more powerful man vs. the young, more vulnerable woman.

[Liberal Veteran]

215. We will have to disagree on that.

I don't subscribe to your version of agency or your dismissal of my transient thoughts of such encounters, nor are the mechanisms with which I deal with such interactions up for debate, mainly because I am in control of myself.

[mercuryblues]

188. You know who else said the exact same thing?

Warren and Castro

Speaking to reporters in Iowa, Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren and former HUD Secretary Julian Castro said they believed Lucy Flores. She wrote in New York magazine that she felt uncomfortable with her interactions with Biden.
Warren and Castro said it’s up to Biden to decide whether he should join the race.
Biden spokesman Bill Russo said in a statement that Biden doesn’t remember kissing Flores.

https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/03/30/warren-decision-on-2020-up-to-biden-after-womans-claim/

I also believe the women and the men who have said Biden has hugged them.

[namahage]

199. Someone else as well,

though I suspect the OP would rather it not be mentioned:

https://www.salon.com/2019/03/31/bernie-sanders-supports-joe-bidens-accuser-we-need-to-change-the-culture-of-this-country/

"I have no reason not to believe Lucy," Sanders told "Face the Nation" when asked about the accusation by former Nevada assemblywoman Lucy Flores. "And I think what this speaks to is the need to fundamentally change the culture of this country and to create environments where women feel comfortable and feel safe. And that's something we've got to do."
...
When asked if he thought Biden should refrain from running for president in 2020 because of Flores' accusations, Sanders demurred from saying that it was disqualifying.

"Well, I think that's a decision for the vice president to make. I'm not sure that one incident alone disqualifies anybody," Sanders explained.

[highplainsdem]

189. Very disappointing.

[ecstatic]

190. Hell, I "believe," them, but I still think it's petty / silly.

And I say this as someone who has always felt uncomfortable with hugs and over the top greetings/affection from friends and strangers alike. Biden, like millions of people, has a way of expressing himself socially. There are introverts, extroverts, and in-betweeners. You not only observe this as a toddler, but you have a pretty good idea of where you'll stand in the social personality spectrum as well. All that being said: If you don't want someone to hug you, just say so and move on. Or recoil in disgust if you're too scared to say anything. No need for all this dramatic bullshit or making a mountain out of a molehill. Just my opinion!

[McCamy Taylor]

196. Even a woman can be a "bull moose in heat."

From the Hunter S. Thompson quote.

[jaceaf]

197. Biden believes them

I mean, Biden apologized and said he is going to change. So he obviously believes them.

[samplegirl]

201. Horrible!!

Dog eat dog!

[SaschaHM]

203. Only emboldens my support of her. I believe them too. Do I think it's disqualifying for Biden? No.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

210. How illogical. "I would never think of telling Joe what

to do", but I am going to throw my opinion in there about the credibility of people who say they were uncomfortable and diminish his chances if he chooses to run.