Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumAOC says the quiet part out loud about Medicare for All: It has virtually no chance of becoming law
Joseph Zeballos-Roig Feb. 14, 2020, 01:00 PM
"The worst-case scenario? We compromise deeply and we end up getting a public option. Is that a nightmare? I don't think so," the progressive lawmaker and key surrogate for Sen. Bernie Sanders said, while noting she still intended to fight for universal healthcare.
Her comments highlight a possible pivot available to Sanders as he becomes the frontrunner for the Democratic presidential nomination: Fight for sweeping change, but take what you can get from a polarized Congress.
Medicare for All is at the heart of the Vermont senator's unabashedly progressive campaign. The proposal would enroll everyone into the United States into a government-run insurance system and provide comprehensive health benefits. It would also virtually eliminate private insurers.
LOTS more at:
https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/aoc-medicare-for-all-sanders-no-chance-law-right-away-2020-2-1028907659
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LonePirate
(13,431 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
dware
(12,429 posts)I have great health care and I would oppose M4A with all my being.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LonePirate
(13,431 posts)There's a word for that.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
dware
(12,429 posts)I would oppose M4A as being the ONLY choice for health care.
If someone is satisfied with their current health care, then they should be able to keep it and not be forced to have M4A.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LonePirate
(13,431 posts)You're every marketer's and corporation's dream customer.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
dware
(12,429 posts)It's that whole freedom of choice thing.
I worked hard for my health care benefits, I don't want it taken away from me for what is a pie in the sky proposal at this point in time.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LonePirate
(13,431 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
dware
(12,429 posts)You should look at my avatar and then you would know about my health care benefits.
I'm a long haul owner/operator truck driver, not an investment advisor, and I do quite well.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
RhodeIslandOne
(5,042 posts)I hope for your health, that's never tested.
I've met so many people who said they were "satisfied" until they actually got sick.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
dware
(12,429 posts)Again, I worked my tail off for my health care benefits, I like my benefits, I don't want to lose them to some pie in the sky proposal that no one can even tell us what it will cost.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)https://www.sanders.senate.gov/download/options-to-finance-medicare-for-all?inline=file
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
dware
(12,429 posts)If people want M4A, then fine, but it shouldn't be the ONLY choice, if someone wants a different insurance, then shouldn't it be up to them to choose, yes, choose, what they want?
When did freedom of choice become so toxic to some here?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blues Heron
(5,940 posts)not everybody's as lucky as you.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
dware
(12,429 posts)and I sure as hell don't want to lose them for some pie in the sky proposal..
I'm not against M4A per se, I'm against M4A being the only health care available, as Bernie has suggested.
BTW, it wasn't luck, it was a conscious decision by my late wife and myself to make a career of the Marine Corps.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blues Heron
(5,940 posts)nice. Let's expand that to everybody else.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
dware
(12,429 posts)as long as it's not the only plan available, let people choose what's best for them, that used to be an American value, but it seems to be toxic these days, especially with some here.
And yes, I'm on the govt. teat, I earned that teat.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
KPN
(15,650 posts)Ive been concerned about its rightward trend for 40 years, but this is eye opening for me.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
it's not RW to want to have choices, if someone wants M4A, then god bless them, but it shouldn't be the ONLY choice, it should be up to the individual what is best for them.
I thought freedom of choice was a Democratic value, apparently, to some, it's not anymore.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
KPN
(15,650 posts)We need a system that provides everyone with quality health care, not a system based on profit and affluence for the providers, managers, insurers and quality health care for some those who can afford it.
By the way, like you now, I have always been fortunate to have excellent health insurance and access to quality health care as well as choice of providers throughout my life. I am now on welfare with supplemental insurance for 4-plus years now. It provides the same. Im thrilled with the quality, access and choice it provides me. Its been every bit as good as any plan Ive ever had, and at significantly lower out of pocket cost.
A universal system is the only system that can do the same for all. I am 100 percent for it and find your take way off the mark regarding freedom (that is real BS by the way) as well as traditional values of the Democratic Party frankly. Ive been convinced for years that as long as insurance companies are key stakeholders, we will never achieve affordable care for all. Their role needs to be minimized to a supplemental one at most, not an equal player based on the bullshit, phony argument about freedom.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
dware
(12,429 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Magoo48
(4,720 posts)Choice. Choice, what a sick, cruel fucking joke. Choice is bullshit, vulture insurances whitewash.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
dware
(12,429 posts)the ONLY choice.
I like my insurance, I worked hard for it, I want the choice to keep it.
What's wrong with that?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Magoo48
(4,720 posts)Does your candidate support such a choice? Rich people worldwide are allowed to spend as much money as they like on private healthcare whether that country has universal healthcare or not.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)they sit and whine that no one knows how much M4A will cost. Trillions folks.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
OnDoutside
(19,970 posts)and that's what will happen if there's a Democratic nominee pushing M4A. The notion of it is great, but the practical reality is that there's not a hope in hell of it passing. AOC recognizes this reality. Fixing the ACA, adding a public option, providing public healthcare for the poorest of Americans, establishing Primary care centers to target prevention rather than reactive, and lowering the cost of prescription drugs. That is all achievable.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
dware
(12,429 posts)I do wish more people would realize this, we can't tolerate another 4 years of the Mango Menace.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
OnDoutside
(19,970 posts)Bernie came out with this great big idea, Kamala and Elizabeth jumped on his coattails, but none of them had thought through the implications and the potential blowback. Kamala got holed almost immediately when asked if it meant doing away with private healthcare, saying yes, and then ran away from that almost as quickly. It took Warren longer to suffer for it, and now Bernie is getting it from the Nevada union.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tishaLA
(14,176 posts)And it's something that shouldn't be the quiet part because this, at least, isn't magical thinking.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Good for her.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,337 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
melman
(7,681 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
krissey
(1,205 posts)Why are we still pretending otherwise. Five years of Sanders beating up the Democratic Party and our Democratic leaders over this that has no chance of passing,a s we all knew well in advance. So the Democrats have been doing what we can to make it better for people, while Sanders has made it harding, putting out hits on the people actually accomplishing things.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
He trashes good people who actually have moved the ball forward for it not being enough. I mean, dogged the democrats relentlessly for what? So that he can claim to be the only one with an answer.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
oasis
(49,407 posts)Run like hell.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dualboy24
(41 posts)Almost all first world countries have universal healthcare for their citizens, what is known about this:
- Cost per capita is much much lower (economies of scale)
- Drug are much cheaper and are priced between producers and governments
- The life expectancy is higher and going up these nations
- The populations would never want to goto the US system.
So reasons why the US wants to keep their system:
- ... faulty logic
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
subterranean
(3,427 posts)But the fact is most Americans are not swayed by hearing that other countries do something better, since they've been conditioned to believe that the USA is the greatest country on earth. If they've never lived outside the U.S., they can easily swallow the propaganda about months-long wait times and "rationing" of care.
Or they say, "Well, single-payer may work in those countries, but it would never work here because we have a much larger population." I don't understand the logic of that argument, but I see it a lot.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,554 posts)sanders is relying on some sort of magical voter revolution to get his proposals adopted. Without this magical voter revolution, none of sanders proposals will ever be adopted in the real world.
Here is a good article on why there will a magical voter revolution is not going to happen in the real world
Link to tweet
This has remarkably little empirical support. Take the 2018 midterm elections, in which the Democrats took back the House (a net 40-seat gain), carried the House popular vote by almost nine points and flipped seven Republican-held governorships. Turnout in that election was outstanding, topping 49 percent the highest midterm turnout since 1914 and up 13 points over the previous midterm, in 2014 and the demographic composition of the electorate came remarkably close to that of a presidential election year. (Typically, midterm voters tend to be much older and much whiter than those in presidential elections.) This was due both to fewer presidential drop-off voters (people who voted in 2016 but not 2018) and to more midterm surge voters (those who voted in 2018 but not 2016) ..
This analysis shreds an implicit assumption of Sanders and other members of the turnout-will-solve-everything crowd: that if they polarize the election by highlighting progressive issues, their nonvoters will show up at the polls, but none of the nonvoters from the other side will. That view is also contradicted by many political science studies. Stanford political scientists Andrew Hall and Daniel Thompson, for example, studied House races between 2006 and 2014 and found that highly ideological candidates who beat moderates for a party nomination indeed increased turnout in their own party in the general election but they increased the opposition turnout even more. (The difference was between three and eight percentage points.) Apparently, their extreme political stances did more to turn out the other side to vote against them than to turn out their own side to vote for them.
The turnout equation does not necessarily return positive results for a candidate like Sanders. The reverse is more likely. It is truly magical thinking to believe that, in a highly polarized situation, only your side gets to increase turnout. And if the other side turns out in droves, you might not like the results a warning Democrats would be wise to heed.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to George II (Original post)
jcmaine72 This message was self-deleted by its author.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)And if the ACA finally goes, Medicare and Social Security will follow. Yes, it can happen here.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Zeus69
(391 posts)Has ONLY government run healthcare.
Germany
England
Japan
Australia
even Denmark
...have private health insurance sectors. And many are growing.
https://www.dailysignal.com/2019/06/13/socialist-nordic-countries-are-actually-moving-toward-private-health-care/
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
andym
(5,445 posts)unable to accomplish any major plank of his economic platform, so he should be considered non-threatening. Of course, he would never use this defense personally. If he gets nominated, expect other more moderate Democrats to employ this tactic. The message would be you are getting a tough, angry, ethical, but "toothless" old man to replace Trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden