In case anyone wonders why people attack Bernie supporters so much.

[DanTex]

They can’t touch his policies.
They can’t touch his integrity.
They can’t touch his record.

So they find some rando on twitter who said something offensive. That’s all they got.

And that’s why Bernie keeps rising in the polls. Because voters don’t care about random tweets. They care about policies, integrity, record, standing up for working people against powerful interests.

Bernie’s got all that in spades. Voters know that and so do the people attacking him.

[TheCowsCameHome]

1. Oooo-k

[DemocracyMouse]

55. "Ooo-K with an emoji is not an argument.

Nor is pretending you might be rich too because you support a monopolist.

[TheCowsCameHome]

84. Thanks for the comprehensive analysis.

Do you accept major credit cards?

[Hassin Bin Sober]

2. Been saying this for years...

[chillfactor]

3. if you truly believe that....

hope it makes you sleep better cause sanders will never be the nominee.

[redstateblues]

4. Another outboard motor in a cesspool post

[Uncle Joe]

5. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread DanTex.

[PatSeg]

6. Okay, yeah right

[beastie boy]

7. This is so deliciously ambiguous!

When you say "they", are you referring to Bernie supporters or people who attack them?

Depending on your response, I might agree with your sentiment in its entirety. Berrnie's supporters may indeed be deserving of the attacks.

[sheshe2]

8. Welp

They can’t touch his record.

What is his legislative record?

[George II]

12. No one can touch it.

[sheshe2]

17. Correct.

[George II]

59. ....

[sheshe2]

61. Bwahahaha

[TexasTowelie]

65. Hammer time.

[msongs]

21. no one can find lol. nt

[sheshe2]

29. Ha!

[dalton99a]

27. A partial example:

[sheshe2]

30. In depth I see...

[W_HAMILTON]

9. Wrong. When he is "attacked" on those things, Sanders supporters are all like...

..."LOL, no one cares about that, that was already litigated in 2016, blah blah blah."

His misogynistic writings are enough to cost him the general and he has plenty more skeletons in his closet than just that. There's a reason why Republicans are salivating at the thought of facing him in the general and are doing their best to ratfuck our nomination to make sure they get to face him.

[George II]

10. You're making some mighty strong assumptions about anyone who doesn't agree with Sanders.

[Kurt V.]

36. yeah. i don't like blanket claims. ppl are complicated but amazingly simple.

[irisblue]

11. I was not really happy with the Bern Swarms I got last week.

Being told to die by a Sanders supporter is such a good PR move.
🙄

"they find some rando on twitter who said something offensive. That’s all they got."

Dude, really?

[CalFione]

13. False

- His policies are not popular among the wider electorate outside of deep blue enclaves.

- His integrity is coming in to question, since he allows his surrogates and supporters to be as vile as Trump supporters.

- His record is pretty empty. Been in the congress for decades, and hasn't done much to advance his agenda. He points out problems all the time, but doesn't have a track record of solving any of them.


Finally...

Bernie is not "rising in the polls". The last polls in Iowa before the caucus had him at 29%. He got 26%. The last polls in NH before the primary had him at 30%. He got 26%.

In the final 48 hours of each state so far, he has had NEGATIVE momentum.

[ChubbyStar]

15. Did Amy beat Bernie in either Iowa or NH?

No. Next.....

[CalFione]

16. No. Because the majority that favors sensible candidates is split among many.

75% of the party wants a real Democrat.

25% of the party wants Bernie.

[ChubbyStar]

18. Great so she lost to Bernie in both states

Thanks!

[CalFione]

20. Good thing there's 48 to go.

[DanTex]

22. Wrong.

[ChubbyStar]

24. I am fearful the swimsuit competition might do Bernie in

[CalFione]

25. Online yougov poll is less than meaningless

[DanTex]

26. LOL.

[sheshe2]

34. Aaaah. An on line poll.

Thanks for pointing that out!

[calguy]

40. If you post that link a few dozen more times maybe even you will believe it.

[ChubbyStar]

42. If it is a false link alert on the post

Nice profile Larry.

[sheshe2]

63. Fake? Nope. Online? Yes.

I have voted in many of them. It's fun. You can vote multiple times in every poll and I have.

[DanTex]

43. Well as long as people are under the mistaken impression

that all non-Bernie votes are “against Bernie” I’ll keep posting the actual numbers. I’m glad to help out like that.

[lees1975]

23. A few questions about the real "facts" here

Most national head-to-head polls have Bernie nine to twelve ahead of the orange headed buffoon. So it can't just be deep blue enclaves. He'd be president now if he'd been the nominee in 2016.

I watched him draw a full house to a high school auditorium in a declining West Virginia coal town just about a year after the election. He was there as part of an effort to raise awareness of health care issues in a community that was losing people, physicians and jobs (yes, under the Trump presidency). Reality sometimes has a way of changing people's minds. I'd bet that if he spent a week in West Virginia coal country talking about health care, he'd carry the state.

I'd like to see an example of your third contention. You don't always have to have you name all over everything to have success in advancing an agenda. I'd rather elect a politician who advances a broader agenda any day than one who is concerned about their own record.

Bernie has replaced Biden as the Democratic front-runner. I'd call that "rising in the polls."

I'm voting for WHOMEVER the Democratic party nominates, it won't make a difference to me in the general election. I think the best thing for Democrats to do is stop putting each other down and start making this election about getting rid of the real problem which is Donald Trump.

[Mister Ed]

92. Each paragraph of this post contains at least one unfounded assertion.

He'd be president now if he'd been the nominee in 2016.

"Woulda's" are easy to say and impossible to support. For example, I myself would be president now if I'd been nominated in 2016. Who can say I'm wrong?

I'd bet that if he spent a week in West Virginia coal country talking about health care, he'd carry the state.

Well, I'll take that bet. Too bad we'll probably never find out which of us won, since it's extremely unlikely that Sanders is going to spend a week in West Virginia talking about health care. Just as it's extremely unlikely that he or any other eventual Dem nominee is going to carry that state in November.

I'd like to see an example of your third contention.

You're essentialy asking that poster to prove a negative - to give an example of Sanders not doing something.

You don't always have to have you name all over everything to have success in advancing an agenda. I'd rather elect a politician who advances a broader agenda any day than one who is concerned about their own record.

The idea that Sanders has been too modest to take credit for his legislative accomplishments is awfully hard to swallow.

Bernie has replaced Biden as the Democratic front-runner. I'd call that "rising in the polls."

I'm afraid math doesn't work that way. When your percentages decline, you are not "rising in the polls". The fact that one of the other candidates is also losing percentage points doesn't change that.


I post all of this not as someone who has anything against Sanders (whom I supported in 2016), but as someone who values critical thinking. I do hope it won't be taken personally - especially since your journal is full of valuable, well-thought-out posts that are contributing much more to DU than my curmudgeonly sniping possibly could.

[treestar]

14. There are at least 4 threads

Complaining about attacks on Bernie.

[underthematrix]

19. Well . . .

Link to tweet

[wyldwolf]

28. Sure, we're jealous he got a few post offices named. Great record!

[Rorey]

31. Did you denounce that "rando" of whom you speak?

Did Sanders? Did you?

Seriously, it would go a long way if decent people would denounce those on their "team" who aren't decent.

[DanTex]

35. If Bernie or any other candidate tried to denounce every rando

who posted something offensive on twitter, they would need a team of people working full time.

Twitter is full of people saying rude things. In all directions.

[Rorey]

37. A blanket denunciation would do.

Let's not nit pick.

[DanTex]

39. He's done that. More than once I believe.

Have the other candidates? Does anyone even ask them to? It’s not like Bernie supporters are uniquely rude. The internet is the internet.

[Rorey]

45. As a matter of fact

I often see DUers say things like "This isn't helpful" when we read about some "rando" who supports their candidate. Of course I don't read every post, but I have yet to see a Bernie supporter say something to that effect. Case in point, the coffin protesters mentioned today.

It's like the Bernie supporters put their blinders on and look *around* the rude behavior.

None of the candidates are perfect. They all have faults and baggage. If we're going to support a candidate, we kinda have to own that baggage. Cuz they'll be taking that baggage with them to the GE and we really have to be prepared.

I'm going to vote for whoever gets nominated, no matter who it is. Sadly, I don't feel confident about Bernie supporters doing the same.

[DanTex]

50. So you'd like Bernie supporters to call out other Bernie supporters being rude.

Something like this maybe?
https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287511531

It's really hard to say which candidate's supporters are more vigilant about calling out rudeness or attacks by other supporters of the same candidate. Really, that's kind of an abstract and not terribly relevant issue, but FWIW I haven't seen many people defending Bernie from the absurd charges of being a communist or wanting to execute people in central park, other than Bernie supporters.

As far as not voting for the Dem nominee, I haven't seen really any Bernie supporters on DU say that, or even that they'd have to "hold their nose" to vote for, say, Biden. On the other hand, I've seen a lot of non-Bernie supporters describe how disgusted they'd feel casting a vote for Bernie against Trump.

The only exception to that is if Bloomberg is the nominee, in which case I've seen a number of people saying they would not feel to enthusiastic about casting that general election vote, and not just Bernie supporters. Frankly, I would find it a bit unpleasant to have to vote for Bloomberg, I'd do it of course, but it wouldn't be cheerful. But that's because a lot of Dems, justifiably IMO, have issues with Bloomberg's politics.

[Rorey]

58. Thank you for the mild rebuke to your fellow Berners about unions

I'd like to see a vigorous rebuke to them about booing Hillary, and an even more vigorous rebuke about the coffin thing. And more, of course.

As for you not seeing "really any Bernie supporters on DU say that, or even that they'd have to "hold their nose" to vote for, say, Biden....", usually there's just crickets. The Bernie supporters generally avoid responding to that part of the post.

I freely admit that I don't want Bernie to win the nomination, but I sure as hell will vote for him if he wins the nomination. What I won't do is vote third party, or encourage anyone else to do so. I'll vigorously campaign against Trump, no matter what.

[DanTex]

64. Yeah, that's my point. You want rebuke, rebuke, rebuke, and even then you want more.

But you don't ask the same of yourself, say rebuking people who call Bernie a communist. You're not going to rebuke Hillary for saying that "nobody likes" Bernie and implying that his supporters were being conned. That's not a Hillary-Bernie thing. If anyone said something that about any candidate, pretty good chance they end up getting booed at a rally.

[Rorey]

72. I actually have rebuked people IRL about the communist thing

In fact, my own husband, at the time, said Bernie was a communist, and I educated him. (He voted for -45, and he's now my EX-husband, btw.)

And you're leaving out the part about how Hillary said IN CONGRESS nobody likes him. IN CONGRESS. His supporters purposely took that out of context, and now you're continuing to do so. That's just plain dishonest.

And yes, I respect people who will stand up for what's right, and rebuke what's wrong, even when it's with people with whom they generally align. I believe in holding people accountable, and people who allow themselves to be held accountable are better people for it.

[DanTex]

78. "Nobody likes him" is clearly an attack, anyone can see that.

You don't choose the words "nobody likes him" if you don't want to be offensive, instead you say something like "he hasn't had much success in building coalitions." Which also isn't true, of course. And "I feel so bad that people got sucked into it" is also an attack, not just on Bernie, but on his supporters. Also, she called his supporters "Bernie Bros", which a lot of Bernie supporters don't like.

Again, I'm pretty confident that if a major public figure said that stuff about another candidate, any of them, they'd also get booed at a rally. That's just the nature of people.

[Rorey]

86. It's not the nature of me.

It's not my nature to boo ANYONE in my own party. It's not my nature to allow foolish pride to keep me from voting to keep someone like Trump OUT of the WH.

It's funny that you would ascribe a motive to Hillary, saying that she wanted to be offensive because she didn't say something just the way you wanted her to IN AN INTERVIEW. Actually you should be thankful that she didn't say it in a way that couldn't be taken out of context because it gave her detractors a chance to mangle it so it could fit their agenda.

What I see a lot in Bernie supporters is an intent to be offensive to those of us who aren't supporters. I guarantee you that it's not an effective way to bring people on board to support your candidate. I'm going to vote blue, no matter who (even if that "blue" is really an Independent), but if Bernie supporters continue to think that being offensive to Democrats is going to be a way to win the GE (in the event he wins the nomination), they might be horrifically surprised on election night. Cuz a lot of people might decide to NOT vote for the grumpy old man with the equally grumpy supporters. I've had enough negativity to last me the rest of my life after these last 3+ years.

I'm out. Gotta get up at 4 a.m.

[calguy]

41. You already have a team of pumpers working full time

Professional Spammers

[Tumbulu]

32. No, it's because they are often the left's version of Trumptsters

And guess what? People don’t like that.

[doc03]

33. If it wasn't for Bernie and his Bernie or Bust crowd we

wouldn't have Trump in the WH today. Thanks Bernie

[Rorey]

38. It's disheartening that they won't own that fact. NT

[Autumn]

48. We don't have to own that because it's not true. According to Dem leadership it was Russia meddling

that put Trump in the White House. Unless you think they're lying. I happen to believe them.

[Rorey]

51. It was part of it, of course

When one candidate clinches the nomination and it takes the other candidate four weeks to endorse the nominated candidate, it matters. When people working for Sanders' campaign encouraged people to vote for fucking Jill Stein, it matters.

And if Bernie doesn't win the nomination, we'll probably see some of those same factors again. We've seen what almost amounts to threats right here at DU. I don't see a whole lotta Bernie supporters here saying they'll vote blue, no matter who.

Will you vote blue, no matter who?

[Autumn]

56. I guess you have them all on ignore, I see that disclaimer all the time. I've even said it. .

Jill Stein runs every 4 years, she never made a difference when Obama was running. There were 19 people running for president on my ballot. We still went Blue.

[Rorey]

62. I don't put anyone on ignore, ever NT

"All the time"??? Nah

Sanders didn't run in 2008. There were no Berners then. So I don't know why you're bringing that up. This isn't about Stein. It's about Sanders, who calls himself a Democrat when it's convenient, and then doesn't throw his full support behind the person who clinched the nomination.

[DanTex]

53. There were less cross-overs from Bernie people in 2016 than there were from HRC people in 2008.

Also, Bernie did more campaign events for Hillary in 2016 than Hillary did for Obama in 2008. So it's pretty hard to blame Trump on Bernie.

[radius777]

89. I've never believed that stat, imo flawed exit polling

that doesn't jibe with reality. HRC's and Obama's bases had no real ideological or cultural differences - whereas HRC and Bernie are night and day.

The larger issue in nomination contests is how much the losing camp(s) help the nominee to get out the vote.

HRC (and Bill) were very strong behind Obama once they got through with that long campaign.

Sanders was mathematically eliminated by early March, yet stuck around and his campaign allowed many of his young supporters to think the DNC/HRC was 'stealing' it from him. It bred alot of bad will, conspiracy theories, etc that persist to this day.

Jeff Weaver and Nina Turner in particular are terrible, foment an attack culture that may 'work' amongst the online left - but a culture that is highly repulsive to the 75% of Dems who are not part of Sanders base.

Joy Reid talked about this more today, how even journalists have to 'walk on eggshells' around any critique, no matter how mild, of Sanders for fear of getting pummelled by Berners - many of whom do have a militant and entitled attitude that is far out of proportion (many of them are white and middle class) to what their true status in America is.

[MineralMan]

44. I have never wondered about that

at all, somehow.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

46. Or maybe many of us find he's a lot of talk with little accomplishment

[Autumn]

47. I don't have a flying fuck to give over who protests who's campaign. If people are

protesting they're paying attention. It's all faux outrage anyway. As long as it's not some project vertis shit I'm good with it.

[Moderateguy]

49. I hope the next debate is about nothing but his record

Let’s see how that goes

[brooklynite]

52. If it makes you feel better I DO criticize his policies...

...which I see as risking both the Presidential Election and the House.

[Love-All]

54. agreed

[Docreed2003]

57. Way to minimize the fact that there were and are a subset of vocal Sanders supporters

Who have done and continue to do really atrocious shit.

Some folks still remember actual Sanders delegates, not some bullshit online trolls, but actual delegates and the 2016 convention booing a civil rights icon and American Hero because he had the gall to stand with Clinton. Maybe read up on some of the stories from DU posters who were actually at the convention and the experiences they had with Sanders delegates.

So, yes, when those types of actions continue during this primary....people are calling in out. Because Sanders sure isn't and he damn sure didn't do it at the convention in 16.

[sheshe2]

69. Everything you said about the convention, Docreed.

I would like to add one more point, not one but three, perhaps more, high hires on Bernie's team are vocal, attack Democrats viciously and all three are non repentant Stein voters.

It makes you question these things.

[Docreed2003]

77. Exactly sheshe

Thanks for adding that fact!

[sheshe2]

81. Hey.

[Docreed2003]

83. Hey!!

[DanTex]

70. I'm talking about this campaign, not 2016.

I think it's best for everyone not to continue arguing about 2016, both sides could make complaints there, and just better to put it behind us.

[Docreed2003]

75. Again, with the minimizing

If you want to understand why people are quick to assume the worst when they see stories about Sanders supporters acting trollish...you have to acknowledge past behavior.


And no, I'm not willing to put behind me the fact that Sanders delegates booed and American Icon in John Lewis...and Sanders sat there and watched it and said NOTHING. I'm not willing to let that one go, and I say that as someone who was a rabid Sanders supporter in 16

[DanTex]

82. Not minimizing 2016, just moving past 2016.

Both sides have gripes about 2016, and it is to nobody's benefit to keep re-litigating that (also it's against DU rules). Nor is it beneficial to hold grudges about it. I was pissed off too when people were yelling Bernie-or-Bust and booing at the convention in 2016. But that's in the past.

It's to everyone's benefit to put that all behind us and have the 2020 campaign be the 2020 campaign.

[myohmy2]

60. Bernie...

...and his supporters are still being minimized in the corporate media....in a way that's good...

...we've been flying solo relatively unscathed through much of the primary flack...

...IMO, we've been artfully and skillfully ducking and dodging a lot of 'incoming' while others have not...

...if Bernie is to be President Sanders, he must and will continue to successfully navigate through these rough troubled primary waters clearly destined to cream trump in the Fall...

...kudos to Bernie and his supporters for staying focused as others attack while trying to make something out of nothing...


"That’s all they got."

...for sure...

...hang in there, stay focused and let others enjoy the primary 'shark tank'...

...we've got a President Sanders to elect...

[TexasTowelie]

66. .

[betsuni]

67. Because this never stopped:

[DanTex]

68. It did stop actually.

There was less cross-over voting from Bernie supporters in 2016 than from HRC supporters in 2008. And this isn't 2016, the Bernie coalition in 2020 is broader and more diverse.

[sheshe2]

71. Do you have the stats on how many of them actually voted Stein?

Perhaps a stat on how many of them sat it out completely? Many here did exactly that and we are very small compared to the rest of the country.

[DanTex]

73. Here are the survey results for both years.

[sheshe2]

76. You posted more complete stats for 2008 than 2016

[DanTex]

79. That's because the surveys were different. That's the data there is.

[sheshe2]

87. Two different studies?

One more complete than the other.

Where are the links to the two different studies please so I can research this further.

[betsuni]

74. The behavior hasn't stopped.

Warren, Biden, Klobuchar, Bloomberg, Buttigieg -- whoever the nominee is -- all are demonized as corrupt elite establishment status quo centrists controlled by billionaires and Big Pharma blah blah blah. That the Democratic Party is the same, if not worse, than Republicans and everybody is out to get him because he's going to change and save America is fundamental to Sanders' movement. For supporters there is no rational reason for anyone not to support him. Discussing policy is impossible because they think only Sanders is progressive and they don't know history. Buzzwords, insults, booing, harassment is a perfectly rational thing to do considering their worldview. This isn't going away.

[Rorey]

80. Thank you!

+ 1000

[betsuni]

85. You're welcome. Here's another one:

[highplainsdem]

90. Judging by your first three sentences, you've missed a lot of posts here.

[krissey]

91. Not a single one of the three is true and can factually be proven out. That is funny.