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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

Liberalator

(74 posts)
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 04:26 PM Apr 2019

Joe Biden's inappropriate touching is the embodiment of male privilege

Joe is known for this behavior. It has been inappropriate since he started.

Joe Biden’s inappropriate touching is the embodiment of male privilege

[link:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/04/joe-biden-touching-male-privilege-power|]

...do we afford grown women the same privilege of being able to express unease at the way some men touch us and make us feel uncomfortable? Not really.


Unwanted touch is an expression of power. We can make it much more complicated but it comes down to who owns the public space. Who owns women’s bodies and who gets to touch those bodies when they feel like it?

Instinctively we know when our personal space is invaded, and this is not about being repressed or uptight.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
111 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Joe Biden's inappropriate touching is the embodiment of male privilege (Original Post) Liberalator Apr 2019 OP
In my decades on earth I have had both men and women that were demonstrative--more women hlthe2b Apr 2019 #1
I was about to post something similar. Jarqui Apr 2019 #8
I have actual experience... tonedevil Apr 2019 #9
I am sorry you have had that experience. Perhaps some areas of US are more hlthe2b Apr 2019 #12
Thank you... tonedevil Apr 2019 #16
So tell people how you feel or do think people can read minds? Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #25
I have told people... tonedevil Apr 2019 #28
My future daughter in law doesn't like hugs or much contact so we do a pat pat Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #65
I get what you're saying... points well taken. InAbLuEsTaTe Apr 2019 #63
I have told people...please don't touch me and people have told me to please not touch them. UniteFightBack Apr 2019 #74
I can't stand the casual touching nicehuman16 Apr 2019 #78
But do you expect the rest of society to conform? treestar Apr 2019 #92
I don't think I'm asking to much tonedevil Apr 2019 #94
There had to be some social treestar Apr 2019 #96
You seem to be saying... tonedevil Apr 2019 #99
Ostracized is a little strong treestar Apr 2019 #109
I have had many women act in a seductive manner for my attention randr Apr 2019 #34
Good point. This is a MOST complicated issue. calimary Apr 2019 #93
I guess it's ok to attack this particular dem ebbie15644 Apr 2019 #2
Facts are not attacks PDittie Apr 2019 #14
What facts? Other than Biden is a hugger. nt Persondem Apr 2019 #20
Biden is an equal opportunity hugger JaneQPublic Apr 2019 #3
Please don't pass that around. The photo with Franken is photoshopped. pnwmom Apr 2019 #21
How do you know? JaneQPublic Apr 2019 #32
Here are the two original photos from which they photoshopped the one of Biden/Franken. pnwmom Apr 2019 #40
Interesting JaneQPublic Apr 2019 #57
That is no reason to keep posting it. Tipperary Apr 2019 #88
Look at all those displays of white male power! John Fante Apr 2019 #101
I think Joe is just an effusive and loving man OKNancy Apr 2019 #4
Exactly. we can do it Apr 2019 #10
Bingo. That is who he is. secondwind Apr 2019 #31
agree 100% EveHammond13 Apr 2019 #70
Likewise Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Apr 2019 #100
Who hasn't had the aunt or grandma that always had to have the hug or kiss? PeeJ52 Apr 2019 #5
He's free to hug or kiss his nieces and nephews. The issue is how he treats other adults pnwmom Apr 2019 #22
Not going to work... Peacetrain Apr 2019 #6
Benevolent Sexism. Demit Apr 2019 #7
From 74 huh...well you know no one ever changes (sarcasm). Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #23
I know they can. Tell me what he said to show he did. Demit Apr 2019 #30
He was vice president. Look it up. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #35
I've looked it up... tonedevil Apr 2019 #41
Why would he retract it? It was 45 years ago. Seriously this is just plain silly. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #45
Your goal posts are motorized. /nt tonedevil Apr 2019 #48
I find the entire thing ridiculous. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #51
we are really through the looking glass here with all of this... stuff EveHammond13 Apr 2019 #71
When Joe is campaigning or meeting people in an official capacity he is working for people who Autumn Apr 2019 #11
Not accusing him of assault? Then people should... Beartracks Apr 2019 #42
Those all seem like... tonedevil Apr 2019 #43
"inappropriate" touching" invasion of " and "violateing their space" is not the same as assault. Autumn Apr 2019 #47
In the places I've worked, this would just generate a warning marylandblue Apr 2019 #79
The younger people are more likely to be touchy feeling in my experience treestar Apr 2019 #91
Which younger politician do you see being "touchy" like Biden is? nt Autumn Apr 2019 #95
I meant most people treestar Apr 2019 #97
I'm certain no politician would refuse a hug but I think younger politicians know better Autumn Apr 2019 #98
They haven't lived through what Biden has treestar Apr 2019 #110
Yawn...... Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #13
Leave the poor man alone for Fs sake!!! Everything is not about misogyny, racism or male priviledge Dream Girl Apr 2019 #15
Merci, ma belle! Mme. Defarge Apr 2019 #17
She's a Brit writing this from England? OilemFirchen Apr 2019 #18
Can we let it go now please? BlueFlorida Apr 2019 #19
*NOPE*. nt Baltimike Apr 2019 #24
The writer, Suzanne Moore is wrong. LiberalFighter Apr 2019 #26
No, it's just social cluelessness. The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2019 #27
Not necessarily a deal breaker... tonedevil Apr 2019 #44
He's said he understands that times have changed The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2019 #46
I agree... tonedevil Apr 2019 #50
Lol. OnDoutside Apr 2019 #29
Joe Biden Is Not What Matters Here Liberalator Apr 2019 #33
Slate is dead to me . They helped elect Trump. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #36
Home of HA HA Goodman redstateblues Apr 2019 #53
Couldn't remember his name haha.. slate hates Democrats Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #61
Give it up you are failing to destroy a decent man. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #38
That's why they keep coming back over and over and over... defacto7 Apr 2019 #82
That is a REALLY good essay. It describes the situation women find themselves in so well. Demit Apr 2019 #49
You are talking out of both sides ... if Biden is not the issue, why use his name? Thekaspervote Apr 2019 #86
how many more threads do we need repeating the same thing EveHammond13 Apr 2019 #37
They are so sad that Biden is still in first place. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #39
+1 EveHammond13 Apr 2019 #69
Oh, goodie, another one of these threads ... mr_lebowski Apr 2019 #52
They have hope that maybe the smear will work if they keep it up. It wont. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #58
I wonder how Salon and HuffPost spin this into a negative. RandySF Apr 2019 #54
Anybody see muffet mcgraw today. She's speaks truth. Kurt V. Apr 2019 #55
The point has been made. For God's sake let it go. redstateblues Apr 2019 #56
Male privilege. Wow bringing out the big guns. I guess personal space isn't working. Demsrule86 Apr 2019 #59
only making me hate the source of the smears even more EveHammond13 Apr 2019 #73
Lol ok Loki Liesmith Apr 2019 #60
Thanks for dropping by. We don't see much of you. MineralMan Apr 2019 #64
Ditto Loki Liesmith Apr 2019 #75
You know what? Women CAN DO EXACTLY this same stuff to men mr_lebowski Apr 2019 #62
Hi, Liberalator! JCannon Apr 2019 #66
joes was innocent... samnsara Apr 2019 #67
BS. And a perversion of the #metoo movement. And Moore gives her bias away by saying highplainsdem Apr 2019 #68
Yes some unwanted touch is about power NOT ALL, but is the author and by proxy UniteFightBack Apr 2019 #72
if a strange woman touches me rampartc Apr 2019 #76
This isn't a metoo issue, IMO. There are countless men and women with that personality ecstatic Apr 2019 #77
Bingo Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Apr 2019 #102
We are people not robots.We have a range of acceptable behaviors delisen Apr 2019 #80
Lame Clinton-era retread. ucrdem Apr 2019 #81
Joe Biden is a honestly decent human being Gothmog Apr 2019 #83
In Defense of Joe Biden: A Hug When I Needed One Gothmog Apr 2019 #84
Thanks for these treestar Apr 2019 #89
Go away!! Thekaspervote Apr 2019 #85
How many of these threads are we going to have? cwydro Apr 2019 #87
No, it's not. Really. MineralMan Apr 2019 #90
#facknews ! stonecutter357 Apr 2019 #103
This is a discussion-worthy topic. namahage Apr 2019 #104
The smear-job is completely back-firing at this point. John Fante Apr 2019 #105
In my experience women resort to the same behavior of physical contact. dubyadiprecession Apr 2019 #106
Joe Biden's "inappropriate touching" is BS DemDerek Apr 2019 #107
Not more of THIS again! democratisphere Apr 2019 #108
Early State Democrats Stand With Biden As Touching Scandal Falls Flat Gothmog Apr 2019 #111
 

hlthe2b

(102,311 posts)
1. In my decades on earth I have had both men and women that were demonstrative--more women
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 04:33 PM
Apr 2019

in fact and they were demonstrative with both genders --as Biden is as well.

While I'd agree that it is possible to use touch to intimidate (as Trump tries to do), context is everything and intent DOES matter. No hand on the should or a comforting hug from someone that is known to be gregarious and friendly is likely to have exertion of power/intimidation as its intent.

There are those who react badly to touch--those on the autism spectrum for instance. Again, context is everything and if you think that someone that is benign in their intent would not refrain upon being reminded of that well, that is a level of cynism that I'd not want to imagine.

Power is setting your own limits and letting the person KNOW that you'd prefer not to hug. All one has to do is flinch and say "thanks, but I'd rather not". That is self-empowerment. This older staunch feminist does NOT need to be infantilized by those who think I must be protected from the most benign of contact.

In the workplace, nothing more than a handshake or a toast of the glass/verbal praise in celebration of achievement is normally acceptable. But outside of the workplace, I'd hope we do not become the kind of society where a pat on the shoulder becomes scandalous or criminalized. If this is what some are going for, wait until my demise. I don't want a world like that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Jarqui

(10,128 posts)
8. I was about to post something similar.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 04:54 PM
Apr 2019

For me, the bigger problem was women - more of them did it than men.

I didn't like it from either sex.

But I cannot recall ever saying anything to anyone.
I kind of cringed inside and took it.
Most of the time, I was certain they sincerely meant well and there was nothing more to it.
Generally, I did not want to offend them or spark an awkward situation socially by saying anything.

I do think it has anything to do with male privilege.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
9. I have actual experience...
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 05:08 PM
Apr 2019

with trying to refrain from various forms of casual intimacy, like hugs or shoulder squeezes, because it can really upset me. The social recriminations that follow are never pleasant. I'm not even talking about the power dynamic that is inevitable if one of the people involved is the VPOTUS. In my experience saying no thank you if I am asked or straight up backing off if I am blindsided results in not only the huger registering offence, but most others simply assuming that since hugs are good I must be being coy if I don't allow this activity. There have been occasions where I felt so overwhelmed I left the situation. On some of those occasions it has been enough to make me break down. You seem to think that there is some allowance for persons who react badly to touch. I have never seen that happen and I am that person who reacts badly to touch. Perhaps you could try dismounting from that lofty saddle you're perched on and try to understand people who don't feel like you do.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

hlthe2b

(102,311 posts)
12. I am sorry you have had that experience. Perhaps some areas of US are more
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 05:24 PM
Apr 2019

progressive in that respect. I worked for years with victims of sexual assault. My neighbor counsels autistic kids and their families. We have had many conversations on this and how best to provide techniques to convey boundaries. Increasingly, people are not surprised to be told someone has touch sensitivity and that actual phrase is usually all it takes to convey. I don’t think any of our sexual assault victims were asked to explain further. Of course they practice conveying this without defensiveness and that takes some effort at first, given their trauma. You may not believe me when I say so, but the more often they had to do so, the more comfortable they felt.

As I said, it is possible this area is more enlightened as I have noticed more and more people likewise asking before approaching pets to offer a pat. Perhaps that concept of respected boundaries transfers.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
16. Thank you...
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 05:44 PM
Apr 2019

for trying to understand I just do not think you have a clue how I feel. I was about to write more of my history, but since this isn't a thread about Tonedevil's trauma it just seems self indulgent at this point.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Demsrule86

(68,613 posts)
25. So tell people how you feel or do think people can read minds?
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 06:37 PM
Apr 2019

You can't expect everyone to have an intimate understanding of your needs. I personally don't see the need nor want to live in a world where hugs are not permitted at all. Tell folks.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
28. I have told people...
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 06:52 PM
Apr 2019

and the reaction is that I am not sincere or just need to get over myself. My point is the right to not be hugged is rarely respected in my experience. I really want to thank you for giving me suggestions regarding my issues as if I haven't thought of them myself in all the time I have struggled with them.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Demsrule86

(68,613 posts)
65. My future daughter in law doesn't like hugs or much contact so we do a pat pat
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 08:31 PM
Apr 2019

On shoulder which she suggested. We also tell her we love her. She was abused as a child. People who treat you like that are horrible. I am sorry you have to go through this.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
63. I get what you're saying... points well taken.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 08:18 PM
Apr 2019

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

UniteFightBack

(8,231 posts)
74. I have told people...please don't touch me and people have told me to please not touch them.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 10:33 PM
Apr 2019

I'm sorry if the folks you are telling don't get it. But when I don't want to be touched there is no doubt to not fucking touch me or you'll pull back a bloody stump. But if I don't want to 'offend them' I make it about me. It's me...I just don't like to be touched, it's not you it's me,...and that usually disarms them if they are 'offended'. If I need to I will lie then. I have a sensory disorder and it's actually painful for me to get a shoulder squeeze so it's really not a joke that I not be touched.

I wish I could reach out to right now and NOT HUG YOU!!

I'm sure this is OK though..... If not I'm sorry !!!!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

nicehuman16

(7 posts)
78. I can't stand the casual touching
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 10:55 PM
Apr 2019

And I agree that it happens more with women. There is a woman that I work with that does it on purpose, more to people who have expressed discomfort because she thinks it's funny.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

treestar

(82,383 posts)
92. But do you expect the rest of society to conform?
Fri Apr 5, 2019, 11:06 AM
Apr 2019

That would be the question. You know that people are not trying to harm you and don't realize it and you have to tell them. That's fair. Average people though should not be expected to conform as most of them would not be bothered. I don't think people see the VP as someone they could not tell him that they don't want a hug.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
94. I don't think I'm asking to much
Fri Apr 5, 2019, 12:50 PM
Apr 2019

to have my request to refrain from a hug be respected. By respected I mean to stop trying to hug me and not try to hector me into hugging. My experience is that many will indeed stop physically hugging if requested, but will continue to try to change my mind or even better insist I don't know my own mind. There are some people who will hug no matter what. I'm not sure if that is what you mean by average people should not be expected to conform.
The problem with an exuberant VP is who is going to say please don't? Because I have been chided for requesting I not be touched by people who are pretty much peers I imagine the pressure is much greater if the VP is there to enhance your political fortunes and starts to get physical. I can't emphasize enough how much I think the power differential is a factor here.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

treestar

(82,383 posts)
96. There had to be some social
Fri Apr 5, 2019, 01:09 PM
Apr 2019

Normal. And those of us who don’t conform have some inconvenience. We can live with that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
99. You seem to be saying...
Fri Apr 5, 2019, 01:42 PM
Apr 2019

I deserve to be ostracized if don't accept hugging. Apparently asking others to respect my bodily autonomy is just too much of a burden on those who need a hug.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

treestar

(82,383 posts)
109. Ostracized is a little strong
Fri Apr 5, 2019, 06:05 PM
Apr 2019

and sort of black and white thinking. But there are always social customs, so I can't see why they can't be respected. You seemed to think it was even a problem having to explain to people you are not mainstream and that your way should be the general custom even if most people didn't want it to be.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

randr

(12,412 posts)
34. I have had many women act in a seductive manner for my attention
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 07:18 PM
Apr 2019

The games between the sexes is as old as humanity.
I do realize men need to come to terms with recognizing personal space of others as well as women need to come to terms as to how they may have used their attractiveness to get what they want.
There have always been men too aggressive and women too coyish, we need to change a few things for sure.
Some of us are more touchy feely than others. And some of us are less inclined to physical contact. As our social mores change over time we will always be somewhat at a loss to respond to new standards of behavior.
I hope we can find a way to recognize the personal invasion some women feel, find a way to make amends, and grow as a culture.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

calimary

(81,352 posts)
93. Good point. This is a MOST complicated issue.
Fri Apr 5, 2019, 12:17 PM
Apr 2019

And you’re right. Intent DOES matter.

I’m one of those who thinks there is a COLOSSAL difference between a hug or shoulder-rubbing “he touched my waist” during a quick selfie take and “grab ‘em by the pussy” because “when you’re a star, they let you do it.”

But there is the thing about changing times, changing comfort-levels and permission-levels. Millennials bring a different consciousness than baby boomers have brought, and a whole world of new thought.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

ebbie15644

(1,215 posts)
2. I guess it's ok to attack this particular dem
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 04:34 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

PDittie

(8,322 posts)
14. Facts are not attacks
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 05:31 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Persondem

(1,936 posts)
20. What facts? Other than Biden is a hugger. nt
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 06:15 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

JaneQPublic

(7,113 posts)
3. Biden is an equal opportunity hugger
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 04:38 PM
Apr 2019


...and, well, comforter...



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
21. Please don't pass that around. The photo with Franken is photoshopped.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 06:26 PM
Apr 2019

It's from rightwing sites.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JaneQPublic

(7,113 posts)
32. How do you know?
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 07:15 PM
Apr 2019

I got it from a loyal Dem Resister on Twitter.




If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
40. Here are the two original photos from which they photoshopped the one of Biden/Franken.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 07:28 PM
Apr 2019

Here is the original photo of Al Franken. Notice what's missing? Joe Biden.

http://www.startribune.com/star-tribune-editorial-board-franken-should-resign/462346243/


And here is the original of Joe Biden -- with Stephanie Carter.


https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/31/joe-biden-stephanie-carter-1246007

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JaneQPublic

(7,113 posts)
57. Interesting
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 08:07 PM
Apr 2019

Yeah, the picture is clearly a fake.

But with all due respect, asking ME not spread it around is rather amusing in this age of social media.

The photo montage is being tweeted/shared all over. But the good news is, regardless of the pic's source, it is primarily being posted by Dems to defend Biden.


If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Tipperary

(6,930 posts)
88. That is no reason to keep posting it.
Fri Apr 5, 2019, 10:30 AM
Apr 2019

You are posting a lie.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

John Fante

(3,479 posts)
101. Look at all those displays of white male power!
Fri Apr 5, 2019, 01:53 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
4. I think Joe is just an effusive and loving man
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 04:41 PM
Apr 2019

He is not afraid of emotion or expressions of emotion. I hate all this, and I am very suspicious of where all this is coming from.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

secondwind

(16,903 posts)
31. Bingo. That is who he is.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 07:13 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin

(108,089 posts)
100. Likewise
Fri Apr 5, 2019, 01:49 PM
Apr 2019

There are quite a few photos of Obama and Hillary also hugging people. This is getting blown out of proportion.



If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

PeeJ52

(1,588 posts)
5. Who hasn't had the aunt or grandma that always had to have the hug or kiss?
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 04:42 PM
Apr 2019

geesh... it goes both ways... There's been women at work that came up to me for a hug at some special occasion that I hardly knew. It's an equal opportunity obsession...

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

pnwmom

(108,980 posts)
22. He's free to hug or kiss his nieces and nephews. The issue is how he treats other adults
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 06:27 PM
Apr 2019

to whom he is not related.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demit

(11,238 posts)
7. Benevolent Sexism.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 04:51 PM
Apr 2019

I read an interesting essay the other day at HuffPo that talked about this phenomenon, and included something I didn't know. It was a long time ago, but it quotes something Biden said after Roe v Wade about women's bodies.

'In 1974, shortly after he became a senator, Biden told the Washingtonian that he believed the Supreme Court had “gone too far” with Roe v. Wade. “I don’t think that a woman has the sole right to say what should happen to her body,” he said.'

Did he ever specifically retract that belief? I don't know.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/joe-biden-lucy-flores-benevolent-sexism_n_5ca4bb26e4b0ed0d780f75da

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Demsrule86

(68,613 posts)
23. From 74 huh...well you know no one ever changes (sarcasm).
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 06:32 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demit

(11,238 posts)
30. I know they can. Tell me what he said to show he did.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 07:00 PM
Apr 2019

Without sarcasm.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Demsrule86

(68,613 posts)
35. He was vice president. Look it up.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 07:19 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
41. I've looked it up...
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 07:30 PM
Apr 2019

apparently he has never retracted that statement. I'm not saying he still holds to the idea that a woman doesn't have sole right to say what should happen with her body he apparently hasn't said he doesn't since he said he did though. I already know the drill we should just chalk this up to being from a different era, amiright?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Demsrule86

(68,613 posts)
45. Why would he retract it? It was 45 years ago. Seriously this is just plain silly.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 07:50 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
48. Your goal posts are motorized. /nt
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 07:56 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Demsrule86

(68,613 posts)
51. I find the entire thing ridiculous.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 08:03 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

EveHammond13

(2,855 posts)
71. we are really through the looking glass here with all of this... stuff
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 10:25 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Autumn

(45,120 posts)
11. When Joe is campaigning or meeting people in an official capacity he is working for people who
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 05:22 PM
Apr 2019

elected him or he is doing that as a powerful man in high government office. I don't notice younger politicians hugging and touching people so I think they are better at controlling their impulses than Joe who had been doing that the whole time he's been in office because they are more aware of the repercussions put in place and they know that in any job those actions are a liability. Because of the laws people, men and women no longer have to tolerate encounters that make them feel uncomfortable at their places of employment and I think they now realize that it just doesn't happen in work places and a powerful person in government shouldn't be doing that. No one is accusing him of sexual assault or anything like that. He will be more aware of boundaries in the future and that's a good thing.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Beartracks

(12,819 posts)
42. Not accusing him of assault? Then people should...
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 07:38 PM
Apr 2019

... stop using "inappropriate," " invasion, " and "violate" to describe his mannerisms.

========

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
43. Those all seem like...
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 07:47 PM
Apr 2019

proper words to describe what is being put forth. It isn't like those words could only be used in conjunction with assault. Just because an act doesn't rise to the level of assault doesn't mean it isn't inappropriate, an invasion of space and/or a violation of bodily autonomy.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Autumn

(45,120 posts)
47. "inappropriate" touching" invasion of " and "violateing their space" is not the same as assault.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 07:55 PM
Apr 2019

If he were an employee of a company you owned instead of an employee of the American people you would let him go because of the liability.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

marylandblue

(12,344 posts)
79. In the places I've worked, this would just generate a warning
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 10:56 PM
Apr 2019

if and only if there was a complaint. Which just happened. He got his warning. There shouldn't be a repeat.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

treestar

(82,383 posts)
91. The younger people are more likely to be touchy feeling in my experience
Fri Apr 5, 2019, 10:59 AM
Apr 2019

When I grew up no one hugged anyone, and it seemed to start in this century, but the younger people have grown up with it. It's more in their typical social responses.

Further, Biden has been through a lot in his life and experienced losses most people don't have and when he meets someone who has, he has more empathy.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Autumn

(45,120 posts)
95. Which younger politician do you see being "touchy" like Biden is? nt
Fri Apr 5, 2019, 12:52 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

treestar

(82,383 posts)
97. I meant most people
Fri Apr 5, 2019, 01:11 PM
Apr 2019

The politicians at least shake a lot of hands. I doubt there is one who would refuse to hug anyone.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Autumn

(45,120 posts)
98. I'm certain no politician would refuse a hug but I think younger politicians know better
Fri Apr 5, 2019, 01:20 PM
Apr 2019

than to be "huggy" like Biden is. I've never seen a younger politician do anything like that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

treestar

(82,383 posts)
110. They haven't lived through what Biden has
Fri Apr 5, 2019, 06:06 PM
Apr 2019

I think that is part of how he is.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,613 posts)
13. Yawn......
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 05:27 PM
Apr 2019

more nonsense. Joe is up a point on you know.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Dream Girl

(5,111 posts)
15. Leave the poor man alone for Fs sake!!! Everything is not about misogyny, racism or male priviledge
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 05:37 PM
Apr 2019

And I say that as a black woman. Sheesh...what is wrong with people????

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

OilemFirchen

(7,143 posts)
18. She's a Brit writing this from England?
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 06:09 PM
Apr 2019

Has she ever been to Europe?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

BlueFlorida

(1,532 posts)
19. Can we let it go now please?
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 06:11 PM
Apr 2019

There are far more important and critical issues.

Biden already said that he understands social norms are changing and he will adjust.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

LiberalFighter

(50,997 posts)
26. The writer, Suzanne Moore is wrong.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 06:38 PM
Apr 2019

And why does she think her opinion matter in this. She doesn't live here and she doesn't get to vote.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,777 posts)
27. No, it's just social cluelessness.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 06:48 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
44. Not necessarily a deal breaker...
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 07:48 PM
Apr 2019

not a great trait in a presidential candidate either.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,777 posts)
46. He's said he understands that times have changed
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 07:50 PM
Apr 2019

and he will act accordingly. Stacey Abrams was right when she said "We cannot have perfection as a litmus test."

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

tonedevil

(3,022 posts)
50. I agree...
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 07:59 PM
Apr 2019

perfection is an unpossible standard. We are in a primary at this point and I am hoping for better than Socially Clueless. If Biden is the ultimate choice I'm on board in a hot second.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Liberalator

(74 posts)
33. Joe Biden Is Not What Matters Here
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 07:17 PM
Apr 2019

No one has a right to touch other people without permission.

[link:https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/04/joe-biden-lucy-flores-tactile-gray-areas.html|]

That something is done openly and has been for years does not mean it is harmless or that it should be publicly accepted. It is important to recognize that no one has claimed that Biden’s actions felt to them like sexual misconduct. It is also important to recognize that the women who nevertheless say they didn’t like it are seen as rude and intolerant, ungrateful and unkind.


It does mean that we’ve developed an ability to recognize why, whatever’s in his heart, a man shouldn’t go around uniformly doing it to anyone at any time. Touching people is not a personality or a style. Insisting on the freedom to do so would mean prioritizing your way of being over other people’s experience of you.


What’s new is the wide recognition that they’re not alone in that discomfort, and no longer obligated to agree that it’s normal, and fine, and just how things are.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,613 posts)
36. Slate is dead to me . They helped elect Trump.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 07:22 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,613 posts)
61. Couldn't remember his name haha.. slate hates Democrats
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 08:14 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,613 posts)
38. Give it up you are failing to destroy a decent man.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 07:24 PM
Apr 2019

Which now borders on the ridiculous.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
82. That's why they keep coming back over and over and over...
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 11:22 PM
Apr 2019

They have to keep pumping that false image, injecting it into the internet. The more backscatter propaganda the closer to the goal of undermining democratic contenders that don't fit their private view. If they were sincere they wouldn't undermine their own cause this way.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demit

(11,238 posts)
49. That is a REALLY good essay. It describes the situation women find themselves in so well.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 07:58 PM
Apr 2019

I guess there are people who will close their ears to the author's perspective, but it wasn't written to threaten Biden's candidacy, and it doesn't, in my mind. Thanks for posting it.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Thekaspervote

(32,783 posts)
86. You are talking out of both sides ... if Biden is not the issue, why use his name?
Fri Apr 5, 2019, 04:04 AM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

EveHammond13

(2,855 posts)
37. how many more threads do we need repeating the same thing
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 07:22 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Demsrule86

(68,613 posts)
39. They are so sad that Biden is still in first place.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 07:26 PM
Apr 2019

They can't believe the smear campaign is failing...perhaps even backfiring. Next we hear from H whatever Goodman. Give it up folks.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
52. Oh, goodie, another one of these threads ...
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 08:03 PM
Apr 2019

I really don't think we've BEAT THIS TO FUCKING DEATH QUITE ENOUGH YET.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,613 posts)
58. They have hope that maybe the smear will work if they keep it up. It wont.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 08:09 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

RandySF

(58,982 posts)
54. I wonder how Salon and HuffPost spin this into a negative.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 08:06 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Kurt V.

(5,624 posts)
55. Anybody see muffet mcgraw today. She's speaks truth.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 08:06 PM
Apr 2019

(nothing directly to do with biden but relative to this thread)

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

redstateblues

(10,565 posts)
56. The point has been made. For God's sake let it go.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 08:06 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Demsrule86

(68,613 posts)
59. Male privilege. Wow bringing out the big guns. I guess personal space isn't working.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 08:12 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

EveHammond13

(2,855 posts)
73. only making me hate the source of the smears even more
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 10:26 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

MineralMan

(146,319 posts)
64. Thanks for dropping by. We don't see much of you.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 08:19 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
62. You know what? Women CAN DO EXACTLY this same stuff to men
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 08:16 PM
Apr 2019

And not one man would ever (esp. not publicly) raise a fuss about it. Not at the level of shoulder touching or even a kiss to the back of the head.

And if a man did? Say it was Kamala, and men started coming out saying (what people like Ms. Flores said), that Kamala made them 'uncomfortable', etc?

People would and say 'Wait, Seriously? Kamala "Hugged Me A Beat Too Long?" STFU, dude, you're full of it. Uncomfortable ... PFFFFT! Man UP!'

Everyone would know it was a smear job, automatically, you know why?

Because Women in our Society absolutely HAVE this particular privilege ... when it comes to Men.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

JCannon

(67 posts)
66. Hi, Liberalator!
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 08:32 PM
Apr 2019

So tell me: Where's the best place to get a quick bite to eat in St. Petersburg? You guys are still at 55 Savushkina Street, right? I checked on Google Earth and couldn't find a Burger King anywhere in that neighborhood.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

highplainsdem

(49,012 posts)
68. BS. And a perversion of the #metoo movement. And Moore gives her bias away by saying
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 08:48 PM
Apr 2019

she wants a younger candidate.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

UniteFightBack

(8,231 posts)
72. Yes some unwanted touch is about power NOT ALL, but is the author and by proxy
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 10:25 PM
Apr 2019

you suggesting that Joe Biden is one of those people? Are you saying that he has been using his position and power to purposely be over affectionate to cop cheap feels? Is that what you are saying?

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

rampartc

(5,425 posts)
76. if a strange woman touches me
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 10:49 PM
Apr 2019

i usually make sure i still have my wallet.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

ecstatic

(32,718 posts)
77. This isn't a metoo issue, IMO. There are countless men and women with that personality
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 10:52 PM
Apr 2019

type--extremely social, touch feely, close talker, etc. It has nothing to do with male privilege. It's just different personality types. It's a part of life. I really think it's time to grow up and move on.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin

(108,089 posts)
102. Bingo
Fri Apr 5, 2019, 01:57 PM
Apr 2019

I'm another guy who's experienced such from women. Sometimes it was welcome other times not.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

delisen

(6,044 posts)
80. We are people not robots.We have a range of acceptable behaviors
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 11:15 PM
Apr 2019

I am disgusted with the homogenization of culture and uniformity, and the constant calling out of people publicly as a first resort rather than talking with the person privately or as a group

It is just rude. It is the use of shaming as a tool of power to enforce conformity. We are on the verge of losing democracy.


Authoritarianism of the left or the right eventually becomes the same thing. I don't ant Donald Trump or Lucy Flores making rules for me but right no Donald Trump is a clear and present danger.

I intend to focus on the immense issues we are facing.









If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
81. Lame Clinton-era retread.
Thu Apr 4, 2019, 11:19 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(145,413 posts)
83. Joe Biden is a honestly decent human being
Fri Apr 5, 2019, 12:30 AM
Apr 2019



Decorum seemed far from Biden’s mind when he went off-schedule to stop by the Cabinet Room on June 10, 2013. He slung an arm around my husband, who was about to be nominated by President Barack Obama as the chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers; he hugged my in-laws, whom he had never met; and then he homed in on my kindergartner. The vice president sat down and whispered to my anxious kid about the small Schleich knight he was clutching. My son relaxed, and slumped back into Biden’s lap. At that point, an aide interrupted to say that Biden was overdue for a meeting with Kosovar Prime Minister Hashim Thaçi. Still, he refused to rush. He called over my daughter and his photographer for this photo:

Why am I telling another “Biden being Biden” story? Because I believe that the character of the person who occupies the Oval Office is of the utmost importance, and because I believe that Biden, far from a bad man, is an unusually good one.....

Biden’s disregard of this protocol is telling. He enters a room, just as he enters a debate about union rights or domestic violence, with a predisposition to lend an ear to the least powerful.

Judging from the reaction to the recent spate of Biden stories, time is up on avuncular attention, now interpreted as at best pernicious paternalism and at worst septuagenarian sexual harassment. In the cultural revolution under way in America, men like Biden are invited to offer their head if their prior actions deviated from the new norms.

No doubt, character counts. I, for one, admire Biden’s deviant decency.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

Gothmog

(145,413 posts)
84. In Defense of Joe Biden: A Hug When I Needed One
Fri Apr 5, 2019, 12:53 AM
Apr 2019



At age 33, I had been a life-long Republican. I worked for, what many might describe as the “dark side and/or Darth Vaders of politics”, including George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Sarah Palin. I was conservative in my upbringing, values, and beliefs. I stayed true to those feelings yet still found myself drawn to Joe Biden. Our affable, blunder-prone, yet seemingly oh-so-real Vice President.....

I was anxious, sad, and seriously swollen with emotion but was able to get a chance to meet the Vice President. Many of the local Democrats remarked “what are YOU doing here?” when I showed up in line at his photo opportunity. I explained my affection for VP Biden because of what I had been through, and no one blinked an eye, everyone understood. He was a good man. No matter your party.

When my turn came up to have my brief meet-and-greet and photo taken with Vice President Biden, I was nervous. Why AM I here?? But immediately, he knew my story (his staff had briefed him) and he brought me in for a long, big hug. It was exactly what I needed. We discussed Beau and my father. We talked about the recent loss of my mother — he understood family tragedy. He was close, nose to nose at times and hand in hand, but it was in that personal touch that I KNEW he was a human. Not a Vice President, or a politician, or someone that was giving a speech later that night. He was a real person, who had been through real things. Just like me. We must’ve talked for five minutes — far more than the paying Democrat contributors got! — but it was so genuine, no one would complain. Especially Mr. Biden, communicating and comparing stories with me was clearly a highlight for him amidst his political duties. I left with a giant smile on my face, the first in days, and was uplifted for a long time after. I met my hero, and he was exactly what I had expected him to be.

My point in telling this story is that, while Vice President Biden has a very personal and affectionate way about him, it is only because he loves people. He loves people’s stories. Man, woman, child. Father, mother, son, daughter, spouse. He knows people are hurting and can relate and offer genuine support. And human touch is the most basic form of relaying that. There is no ulterior motive — he just wants to get close to everyone. Because he cares about their stories. And is human. And THAT is what matters most and crosses all party lines.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

treestar

(82,383 posts)
89. Thanks for these
Fri Apr 5, 2019, 10:53 AM
Apr 2019

It is nice not to always dwell on the negatives about somebody or to take their actions in the worse possible light.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
87. How many of these threads are we going to have?
Fri Apr 5, 2019, 04:26 AM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

MineralMan

(146,319 posts)
90. No, it's not. Really.
Fri Apr 5, 2019, 10:57 AM
Apr 2019

Joe Biden's a nice guy, not a pervy guy like Trump. Not at all.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

namahage

(1,157 posts)
104. This is a discussion-worthy topic.
Fri Apr 5, 2019, 02:05 PM
Apr 2019

Perhaps the OP might see fit to address the points and rebuttals, rather than doing what is pejoratively termed "posting and running."

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

John Fante

(3,479 posts)
105. The smear-job is completely back-firing at this point.
Fri Apr 5, 2019, 02:05 PM
Apr 2019
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

dubyadiprecession

(5,718 posts)
106. In my experience women resort to the same behavior of physical contact.
Fri Apr 5, 2019, 02:13 PM
Apr 2019

Years ago,(Before I knew I needed to care about this) women would grope me.

There might some truth to that old Chris Rock joke, “if your an ugly guy, it sexual harassment, if your handsome your good to go”.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
 

DemDerek

(13 posts)
107. Joe Biden's "inappropriate touching" is BS
Fri Apr 5, 2019, 02:21 PM
Apr 2019

We've seen this shit again and again and again over the years: Swiftboat Veterans for Truth! Obama was born in Kenya! Hillary ran a pedo ring out of a pizzeria! Now this crap!

Seems whenever we have a truly winning candidate, the BS Machine cranks up to Maximum Slanders Mode! It's already cost us Gore, Kerry, and HRC presidencies. Let's not be distracted by the Shiny Objects this time: tell BS to go fuck itself!

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Undecided
 

Gothmog

(145,413 posts)
111. Early State Democrats Stand With Biden As Touching Scandal Falls Flat
Mon Apr 8, 2019, 07:51 PM
Apr 2019



Progressives and advisers to Bernie Sanders hoped that they could keep Biden out of the race with a scandal that centers around personal space. The scandal though never really dominated the news like they hoped it or accelerated enough to damage the former vice president’s potential candidacy. Biden is still leading in the way too early polling, and he has seen no erosion in his support since the touching scandal started.

The challenge that any Democratic candidate faces is that Joe Biden has deep roots and a huge national organization of party officials. Biden is beloved by the party rank and file, and it is going to take more than what his political adversaries tried to turn into a scandal to stop his candidacy.

After seeing the behavior of porn star paying off, Access Hollywood tape accused sexual assaulter Trump, Joe Biden’s behavior doesn’t rise to the level of disqualifying in the minds of many Democrats.

Democratic voters may choose a different nominee, but Joe Biden is showing why he is going to be hard to beat in 2020.
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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