Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumJoe Biden's inappropriate touching is the embodiment of male privilege
Joe is known for this behavior. It has been inappropriate since he started.
Joe Bidens inappropriate touching is the embodiment of male privilege
[link:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/04/joe-biden-touching-male-privilege-power|]
...do we afford grown women the same privilege of being able to express unease at the way some men touch us and make us feel uncomfortable? Not really.
Unwanted touch is an expression of power. We can make it much more complicated but it comes down to who owns the public space. Who owns womens bodies and who gets to touch those bodies when they feel like it?
Instinctively we know when our personal space is invaded, and this is not about being repressed or uptight.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
hlthe2b
(102,311 posts)in fact and they were demonstrative with both genders --as Biden is as well.
While I'd agree that it is possible to use touch to intimidate (as Trump tries to do), context is everything and intent DOES matter. No hand on the should or a comforting hug from someone that is known to be gregarious and friendly is likely to have exertion of power/intimidation as its intent.
There are those who react badly to touch--those on the autism spectrum for instance. Again, context is everything and if you think that someone that is benign in their intent would not refrain upon being reminded of that well, that is a level of cynism that I'd not want to imagine.
Power is setting your own limits and letting the person KNOW that you'd prefer not to hug. All one has to do is flinch and say "thanks, but I'd rather not". That is self-empowerment. This older staunch feminist does NOT need to be infantilized by those who think I must be protected from the most benign of contact.
In the workplace, nothing more than a handshake or a toast of the glass/verbal praise in celebration of achievement is normally acceptable. But outside of the workplace, I'd hope we do not become the kind of society where a pat on the shoulder becomes scandalous or criminalized. If this is what some are going for, wait until my demise. I don't want a world like that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Jarqui
(10,128 posts)For me, the bigger problem was women - more of them did it than men.
I didn't like it from either sex.
But I cannot recall ever saying anything to anyone.
I kind of cringed inside and took it.
Most of the time, I was certain they sincerely meant well and there was nothing more to it.
Generally, I did not want to offend them or spark an awkward situation socially by saying anything.
I do think it has anything to do with male privilege.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)with trying to refrain from various forms of casual intimacy, like hugs or shoulder squeezes, because it can really upset me. The social recriminations that follow are never pleasant. I'm not even talking about the power dynamic that is inevitable if one of the people involved is the VPOTUS. In my experience saying no thank you if I am asked or straight up backing off if I am blindsided results in not only the huger registering offence, but most others simply assuming that since hugs are good I must be being coy if I don't allow this activity. There have been occasions where I felt so overwhelmed I left the situation. On some of those occasions it has been enough to make me break down. You seem to think that there is some allowance for persons who react badly to touch. I have never seen that happen and I am that person who reacts badly to touch. Perhaps you could try dismounting from that lofty saddle you're perched on and try to understand people who don't feel like you do.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
hlthe2b
(102,311 posts)progressive in that respect. I worked for years with victims of sexual assault. My neighbor counsels autistic kids and their families. We have had many conversations on this and how best to provide techniques to convey boundaries. Increasingly, people are not surprised to be told someone has touch sensitivity and that actual phrase is usually all it takes to convey. I dont think any of our sexual assault victims were asked to explain further. Of course they practice conveying this without defensiveness and that takes some effort at first, given their trauma. You may not believe me when I say so, but the more often they had to do so, the more comfortable they felt.
As I said, it is possible this area is more enlightened as I have noticed more and more people likewise asking before approaching pets to offer a pat. Perhaps that concept of respected boundaries transfers.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)for trying to understand I just do not think you have a clue how I feel. I was about to write more of my history, but since this isn't a thread about Tonedevil's trauma it just seems self indulgent at this point.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,613 posts)You can't expect everyone to have an intimate understanding of your needs. I personally don't see the need nor want to live in a world where hugs are not permitted at all. Tell folks.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)and the reaction is that I am not sincere or just need to get over myself. My point is the right to not be hugged is rarely respected in my experience. I really want to thank you for giving me suggestions regarding my issues as if I haven't thought of them myself in all the time I have struggled with them.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,613 posts)On shoulder which she suggested. We also tell her we love her. She was abused as a child. People who treat you like that are horrible. I am sorry you have to go through this.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)I'm sorry if the folks you are telling don't get it. But when I don't want to be touched there is no doubt to not fucking touch me or you'll pull back a bloody stump. But if I don't want to 'offend them' I make it about me. It's me...I just don't like to be touched, it's not you it's me,...and that usually disarms them if they are 'offended'. If I need to I will lie then. I have a sensory disorder and it's actually painful for me to get a shoulder squeeze so it's really not a joke that I not be touched.
I wish I could reach out to right now and NOT HUG YOU!!
I'm sure this is OK though..... If not I'm sorry !!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
nicehuman16
(7 posts)And I agree that it happens more with women. There is a woman that I work with that does it on purpose, more to people who have expressed discomfort because she thinks it's funny.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)That would be the question. You know that people are not trying to harm you and don't realize it and you have to tell them. That's fair. Average people though should not be expected to conform as most of them would not be bothered. I don't think people see the VP as someone they could not tell him that they don't want a hug.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)to have my request to refrain from a hug be respected. By respected I mean to stop trying to hug me and not try to hector me into hugging. My experience is that many will indeed stop physically hugging if requested, but will continue to try to change my mind or even better insist I don't know my own mind. There are some people who will hug no matter what. I'm not sure if that is what you mean by average people should not be expected to conform.
The problem with an exuberant VP is who is going to say please don't? Because I have been chided for requesting I not be touched by people who are pretty much peers I imagine the pressure is much greater if the VP is there to enhance your political fortunes and starts to get physical. I can't emphasize enough how much I think the power differential is a factor here.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
treestar
(82,383 posts)Normal. And those of us who dont conform have some inconvenience. We can live with that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)I deserve to be ostracized if don't accept hugging. Apparently asking others to respect my bodily autonomy is just too much of a burden on those who need a hug.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
treestar
(82,383 posts)and sort of black and white thinking. But there are always social customs, so I can't see why they can't be respected. You seemed to think it was even a problem having to explain to people you are not mainstream and that your way should be the general custom even if most people didn't want it to be.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
randr
(12,412 posts)The games between the sexes is as old as humanity.
I do realize men need to come to terms with recognizing personal space of others as well as women need to come to terms as to how they may have used their attractiveness to get what they want.
There have always been men too aggressive and women too coyish, we need to change a few things for sure.
Some of us are more touchy feely than others. And some of us are less inclined to physical contact. As our social mores change over time we will always be somewhat at a loss to respond to new standards of behavior.
I hope we can find a way to recognize the personal invasion some women feel, find a way to make amends, and grow as a culture.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
calimary
(81,352 posts)And youre right. Intent DOES matter.
Im one of those who thinks there is a COLOSSAL difference between a hug or shoulder-rubbing he touched my waist during a quick selfie take and grab em by the pussy because when youre a star, they let you do it.
But there is the thing about changing times, changing comfort-levels and permission-levels. Millennials bring a different consciousness than baby boomers have brought, and a whole world of new thought.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ebbie15644
(1,215 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PDittie
(8,322 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Persondem
(1,936 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
JaneQPublic
(7,113 posts)...and, well, comforter...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)It's from rightwing sites.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JaneQPublic
(7,113 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)Here is the original photo of Al Franken. Notice what's missing? Joe Biden.
http://www.startribune.com/star-tribune-editorial-board-franken-should-resign/462346243/
And here is the original of Joe Biden -- with Stephanie Carter.
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/31/joe-biden-stephanie-carter-1246007
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JaneQPublic
(7,113 posts)Yeah, the picture is clearly a fake.
But with all due respect, asking ME not spread it around is rather amusing in this age of social media.
The photo montage is being tweeted/shared all over. But the good news is, regardless of the pic's source, it is primarily being posted by Dems to defend Biden.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Tipperary
(6,930 posts)You are posting a lie.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
John Fante
(3,479 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
OKNancy
(41,832 posts)He is not afraid of emotion or expressions of emotion. I hate all this, and I am very suspicious of where all this is coming from.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
we can do it
(12,189 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
secondwind
(16,903 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
EveHammond13
(2,855 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(108,089 posts)There are quite a few photos of Obama and Hillary also hugging people. This is getting blown out of proportion.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PeeJ52
(1,588 posts)geesh... it goes both ways... There's been women at work that came up to me for a hug at some special occasion that I hardly knew. It's an equal opportunity obsession...
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)to whom he is not related.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Peacetrain
(22,877 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demit
(11,238 posts)I read an interesting essay the other day at HuffPo that talked about this phenomenon, and included something I didn't know. It was a long time ago, but it quotes something Biden said after Roe v Wade about women's bodies.
'In 1974, shortly after he became a senator, Biden told the Washingtonian that he believed the Supreme Court had gone too far with Roe v. Wade. I dont think that a woman has the sole right to say what should happen to her body, he said.'
Did he ever specifically retract that belief? I don't know.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/joe-biden-lucy-flores-benevolent-sexism_n_5ca4bb26e4b0ed0d780f75da
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,613 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demit
(11,238 posts)Without sarcasm.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,613 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)apparently he has never retracted that statement. I'm not saying he still holds to the idea that a woman doesn't have sole right to say what should happen with her body he apparently hasn't said he doesn't since he said he did though. I already know the drill we should just chalk this up to being from a different era, amiright?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,613 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,613 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
EveHammond13
(2,855 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Autumn
(45,120 posts)elected him or he is doing that as a powerful man in high government office. I don't notice younger politicians hugging and touching people so I think they are better at controlling their impulses than Joe who had been doing that the whole time he's been in office because they are more aware of the repercussions put in place and they know that in any job those actions are a liability. Because of the laws people, men and women no longer have to tolerate encounters that make them feel uncomfortable at their places of employment and I think they now realize that it just doesn't happen in work places and a powerful person in government shouldn't be doing that. No one is accusing him of sexual assault or anything like that. He will be more aware of boundaries in the future and that's a good thing.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Beartracks
(12,819 posts)... stop using "inappropriate," " invasion, " and "violate" to describe his mannerisms.
========
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)proper words to describe what is being put forth. It isn't like those words could only be used in conjunction with assault. Just because an act doesn't rise to the level of assault doesn't mean it isn't inappropriate, an invasion of space and/or a violation of bodily autonomy.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Autumn
(45,120 posts)If he were an employee of a company you owned instead of an employee of the American people you would let him go because of the liability.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)if and only if there was a complaint. Which just happened. He got his warning. There shouldn't be a repeat.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)When I grew up no one hugged anyone, and it seemed to start in this century, but the younger people have grown up with it. It's more in their typical social responses.
Further, Biden has been through a lot in his life and experienced losses most people don't have and when he meets someone who has, he has more empathy.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(45,120 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
treestar
(82,383 posts)The politicians at least shake a lot of hands. I doubt there is one who would refuse to hug anyone.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Autumn
(45,120 posts)than to be "huggy" like Biden is. I've never seen a younger politician do anything like that.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
treestar
(82,383 posts)I think that is part of how he is.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,613 posts)more nonsense. Joe is up a point on you know.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Dream Girl
(5,111 posts)And I say that as a black woman. Sheesh...what is wrong with people????
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Mme. Defarge
(8,036 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)Has she ever been to Europe?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueFlorida
(1,532 posts)There are far more important and critical issues.
Biden already said that he understands social norms are changing and he will adjust.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Baltimike
(4,146 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LiberalFighter
(50,997 posts)And why does she think her opinion matter in this. She doesn't live here and she doesn't get to vote.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,777 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)not a great trait in a presidential candidate either.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,777 posts)and he will act accordingly. Stacey Abrams was right when she said "We cannot have perfection as a litmus test."
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tonedevil
(3,022 posts)perfection is an unpossible standard. We are in a primary at this point and I am hoping for better than Socially Clueless. If Biden is the ultimate choice I'm on board in a hot second.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
OnDoutside
(19,962 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Liberalator
(74 posts)No one has a right to touch other people without permission.
[link:https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/04/joe-biden-lucy-flores-tactile-gray-areas.html|]
That something is done openly and has been for years does not mean it is harmless or that it should be publicly accepted. It is important to recognize that no one has claimed that Bidens actions felt to them like sexual misconduct. It is also important to recognize that the women who nevertheless say they didnt like it are seen as rude and intolerant, ungrateful and unkind.
It does mean that weve developed an ability to recognize why, whatevers in his heart, a man shouldnt go around uniformly doing it to anyone at any time. Touching people is not a personality or a style. Insisting on the freedom to do so would mean prioritizing your way of being over other peoples experience of you.
Whats new is the wide recognition that theyre not alone in that discomfort, and no longer obligated to agree that its normal, and fine, and just how things are.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,613 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,613 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,613 posts)Which now borders on the ridiculous.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
defacto7
(13,485 posts)They have to keep pumping that false image, injecting it into the internet. The more backscatter propaganda the closer to the goal of undermining democratic contenders that don't fit their private view. If they were sincere they wouldn't undermine their own cause this way.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demit
(11,238 posts)I guess there are people who will close their ears to the author's perspective, but it wasn't written to threaten Biden's candidacy, and it doesn't, in my mind. Thanks for posting it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Thekaspervote
(32,783 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
EveHammond13
(2,855 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,613 posts)They can't believe the smear campaign is failing...perhaps even backfiring. Next we hear from H whatever Goodman. Give it up folks.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
EveHammond13
(2,855 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)I really don't think we've BEAT THIS TO FUCKING DEATH QUITE ENOUGH YET.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,613 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
RandySF
(58,982 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)(nothing directly to do with biden but relative to this thread)
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,613 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
EveHammond13
(2,855 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MineralMan
(146,319 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)And not one man would ever (esp. not publicly) raise a fuss about it. Not at the level of shoulder touching or even a kiss to the back of the head.
And if a man did? Say it was Kamala, and men started coming out saying (what people like Ms. Flores said), that Kamala made them 'uncomfortable', etc?
People would and say 'Wait, Seriously? Kamala "Hugged Me A Beat Too Long?" STFU, dude, you're full of it. Uncomfortable ... PFFFFT! Man UP!'
Everyone would know it was a smear job, automatically, you know why?
Because Women in our Society absolutely HAVE this particular privilege ... when it comes to Men.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
JCannon
(67 posts)So tell me: Where's the best place to get a quick bite to eat in St. Petersburg? You guys are still at 55 Savushkina Street, right? I checked on Google Earth and couldn't find a Burger King anywhere in that neighborhood.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
samnsara
(17,624 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,012 posts)she wants a younger candidate.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)you suggesting that Joe Biden is one of those people? Are you saying that he has been using his position and power to purposely be over affectionate to cop cheap feels? Is that what you are saying?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
rampartc
(5,425 posts)i usually make sure i still have my wallet.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ecstatic
(32,718 posts)type--extremely social, touch feely, close talker, etc. It has nothing to do with male privilege. It's just different personality types. It's a part of life. I really think it's time to grow up and move on.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(108,089 posts)I'm another guy who's experienced such from women. Sometimes it was welcome other times not.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
delisen
(6,044 posts)I am disgusted with the homogenization of culture and uniformity, and the constant calling out of people publicly as a first resort rather than talking with the person privately or as a group
It is just rude. It is the use of shaming as a tool of power to enforce conformity. We are on the verge of losing democracy.
Authoritarianism of the left or the right eventually becomes the same thing. I don't ant Donald Trump or Lucy Flores making rules for me but right no Donald Trump is a clear and present danger.
I intend to focus on the immense issues we are facing.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,413 posts)Link to tweet
Why am I telling another Biden being Biden story? Because I believe that the character of the person who occupies the Oval Office is of the utmost importance, and because I believe that Biden, far from a bad man, is an unusually good one.....
Bidens disregard of this protocol is telling. He enters a room, just as he enters a debate about union rights or domestic violence, with a predisposition to lend an ear to the least powerful.
Judging from the reaction to the recent spate of Biden stories, time is up on avuncular attention, now interpreted as at best pernicious paternalism and at worst septuagenarian sexual harassment. In the cultural revolution under way in America, men like Biden are invited to offer their head if their prior actions deviated from the new norms.
No doubt, character counts. I, for one, admire Bidens deviant decency.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,413 posts)Link to tweet
I was anxious, sad, and seriously swollen with emotion but was able to get a chance to meet the Vice President. Many of the local Democrats remarked what are YOU doing here? when I showed up in line at his photo opportunity. I explained my affection for VP Biden because of what I had been through, and no one blinked an eye, everyone understood. He was a good man. No matter your party.
When my turn came up to have my brief meet-and-greet and photo taken with Vice President Biden, I was nervous. Why AM I here?? But immediately, he knew my story (his staff had briefed him) and he brought me in for a long, big hug. It was exactly what I needed. We discussed Beau and my father. We talked about the recent loss of my mother he understood family tragedy. He was close, nose to nose at times and hand in hand, but it was in that personal touch that I KNEW he was a human. Not a Vice President, or a politician, or someone that was giving a speech later that night. He was a real person, who had been through real things. Just like me. We mustve talked for five minutes far more than the paying Democrat contributors got! but it was so genuine, no one would complain. Especially Mr. Biden, communicating and comparing stories with me was clearly a highlight for him amidst his political duties. I left with a giant smile on my face, the first in days, and was uplifted for a long time after. I met my hero, and he was exactly what I had expected him to be.
My point in telling this story is that, while Vice President Biden has a very personal and affectionate way about him, it is only because he loves people. He loves peoples stories. Man, woman, child. Father, mother, son, daughter, spouse. He knows people are hurting and can relate and offer genuine support. And human touch is the most basic form of relaying that. There is no ulterior motive he just wants to get close to everyone. Because he cares about their stories. And is human. And THAT is what matters most and crosses all party lines.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)It is nice not to always dwell on the negatives about somebody or to take their actions in the worse possible light.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,783 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
cwydro
(51,308 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MineralMan
(146,319 posts)Joe Biden's a nice guy, not a pervy guy like Trump. Not at all.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
namahage
(1,157 posts)Perhaps the OP might see fit to address the points and rebuttals, rather than doing what is pejoratively termed "posting and running."
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
John Fante
(3,479 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dubyadiprecession
(5,718 posts)Years ago,(Before I knew I needed to care about this) women would grope me.
There might some truth to that old Chris Rock joke, if your an ugly guy, it sexual harassment, if your handsome your good to go.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DemDerek
(13 posts)We've seen this shit again and again and again over the years: Swiftboat Veterans for Truth! Obama was born in Kenya! Hillary ran a pedo ring out of a pizzeria! Now this crap!
Seems whenever we have a truly winning candidate, the BS Machine cranks up to Maximum Slanders Mode! It's already cost us Gore, Kerry, and HRC presidencies. Let's not be distracted by the Shiny Objects this time: tell BS to go fuck itself!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
democratisphere
(17,235 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,413 posts)Link to tweet
The challenge that any Democratic candidate faces is that Joe Biden has deep roots and a huge national organization of party officials. Biden is beloved by the party rank and file, and it is going to take more than what his political adversaries tried to turn into a scandal to stop his candidacy.
After seeing the behavior of porn star paying off, Access Hollywood tape accused sexual assaulter Trump, Joe Bidens behavior doesnt rise to the level of disqualifying in the minds of many Democrats.
Democratic voters may choose a different nominee, but Joe Biden is showing why he is going to be hard to beat in 2020.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden