Trashing the Democratic front runner

[AverageJoe]

is a great way to help trump win re-election.

Would all of the vitriol be tolerated here if the front runner were any other candidate? I can’t imagine that it would be.

[msongs]

1. trashing the democratic party is a great way to do what exactly? nt

[dalton99a]

10. +1

[redqueen]

11. Good thing he's not trashing the party.

He's trashing the forces Wellstone was talking about.

We all should know that. This place has really gone downhill

[peequod]

19. I add a harrumph!

[uponit7771]

25. redqueen, few know what point you're trying to make and Sanders has trashed the DNC that's

... a fact that's not in dispute.

[erlewyne]

41. I think the DNC has trashed us democrats

Where was my vote on the DNC and Wasserman Shultze. The DNC trashed
Bernie (and please, Bernie is not my choice). I cannot believe the hand writing
on the wall. I voted for Hillary and she lost. She was a part of this new democratic
leadership that was not a true part of the Democratic Party. You can make
all the rules you want to, I am a Democrat. I am not a DNC.

And, if these dumb fuckers vote for Trump, let them live with it. I would be
proud to vote for Bernie. I was not proud to vote for Hillary or Gore, but I did.

My good fortune is that I am in my waning years and will say anything
I want to.

[rwsanders]

26. A result of the purge.

[JudyM]

96. +1

[2naSalit]

49. +1

[musette_sf]

71. + 1

[tritsofme]

2. You were here in 2016....right?

[AverageJoe]

5. Yes, I was here long before 2016

and pretty much left for a long time after 2016 got so horribly toxic.

[Steven Maurer]

13. So since you were, is your OP deliberate

Because "Sanders camp insists current vote leader not be criticized" sounds like something directly pulled of the front page of the Onion.

[MontanaFarmer]

55. Think they forgot the "snark" tag.

Same as when his supporters say "the delegate leader should be the nominee, majority or not." Diametric opposite of what Sanders was saying 4 years ago in July. He's a typical politician, nothing more, nothing less.

[Steven Maurer]

78. Sadly, I think OP is in earnest, just with absolutely zero self-awareness of their hypocrisy N/T

[MontanaFarmer]

81. I believe you're correct.

[AverageJoe]

86. Why do you feel the need to attack me personally?

In what way is that helpful?

[Blue_true]

95. "Their" is not "You". He was referring to the general Sanders supporter.

The ones that don't believe online harassment is happening, who want to call the nomination done though 47 states and ALL the territories have not voted yet. I await their reaction if someone else takes the delegate lead, which is a distinct possibility.

[Blue_true]

94. Let's see what they say if someone else takes a clear lead.

It won't be lets nominate now, or don't criticize the frontrunner.

[Eko]

3. It was before with Clinton

By Sanders supporters so,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[betsuni]

8. "Holding feet to the fire" "earning my vote" etc.

[highplainsdem]

4. I suggest you look back at all the vitriol directed at Joe Biden while he was considered the front-

runner.

Much if not most of it from Sanders supporters.

[delisen]

6. Criticism is not trashing. It gives each candidate

The opportunity to show how she can perform in the general election and if he has the character to be the office holder.

Biden was a front runner and had to answer much criticism.

[ripcord]

101. There is a thread on this board that says Bernie sucks

You call that criticism and not trashing?

[NYC Liberal]

7. So is trashing the Democratic Party.

[SunSeeker]

21. If the candidate is wrong, it is right to criticize. nt

[2naSalit]

51. +1

[NYC Liberal]

63. If the politician is wrong, it is right to criticize.

[Vivienne235729]

76. +1000

[HarlanPepper]

9. Isn't it interesting how things work out.

I remember this a lot from a few years ago only in reverse.

[sheshe2]

92. Yep.

[Garrett78]

12. No. There are endless examples of posts about Sanders that would be removed if they were...

...about *any* other candidate, even Bloomberg. Half the posts in this forum would be gone if the same rules were applied across the board.

[SamKnause]

14. Hell no it wouldn't be tolerated.

[democratisphere]

15. BS is self trashing with what he says and does.

No excuses.

[xocet]

33. Labeling Bernie Sanders as BS is similar to the GOP calling us the "Democrat Party". It is divisive.

nt

[democratisphere]

45. BS is devisive because he will never be able to deliver on most, if not all, of his platform.

[Butterflylady]

47. Very good point

That should have been brought up during the debate. He still hasn't offered an explanation.

[denem]

16. "Trashing the Democratic front runner" ?

There was a lot of that in 2016, but discussing it is outside the DU rules.

[LostinRed]

20. Sanders isn't a Democrat

And he violates the DU post rules every speech

[Gravitycollapse]

23. He is a Democrat.

DU isn’t the real world.

[pazzyanne]

37. Question:

Then why does he continue to run as an Independent in his state-wide elections in Vermont if he "is a Democrat"?

[Butterflylady]

48. They have no answer for that.

[LovingA2andMI]

54. None....

Ever.

[Sympthsical]

100. Because no one cares

Only a tiny sliver of vocal political junkies are bothered by this. I’m a lifelong registered Democrat. Couldn’t possibly care less. I don’t know anyone who does. But places like this and some quarters of Twitter really care.

Your average voter isn’t giving it any thought.

[LostinRed]

62. Oh it's not thanks

My point was I can’t say anything about his horrible policies and that he is NOT a Democrat or my post get flagged and then removed by a totally biased jury. Sanders is horrible a vote for him is a vote for Trump in the real world aka general election.

[musette_sf]

82. He's not a Democrat

[Gravitycollapse]

87. He is literally a Democrat. He signed the pledge and joined the party.

[sheshe2]

93. Nope.

At the very time he "joined" the D party he filed paperwork for his next Senate run as a I.

So no:

Gravitycollapse
87. He is literally a Democrat. He signed the pledge and joined the party.

[jcmaine72]

29. That (D) adjacent to his name says differently

[pazzyanne]

38. See post above...

I would really like an answer to that question. It has been asked before, but never answered.

[DanieRains]

43. Because He Rejects Many Things Many Dems Support

Like carried interest loophole I assume.

[George II]

58. What (D)?

[blue-wave]

22. Hey I'll show you how

someone can help Trump win an election. How about this?

"Fully 12 percent of people who voted for Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., in the 2016 Democratic presidential primaries voted for President Trump in the general election."

https://www.npr.org/2017/08/24/545812242/1-in-10-sanders-primary-voters-ended-up-supporting-trump-survey-finds


This effectively gave Trump the electoral votes he needed to win.

[uponit7771]

24. Trashing the democratic party, is a great way to help Trump Win re-election ...... too

[krissey]

27. Maybe the man ought not to have trashed all us. While expecting a vote.

[Callado119]

28. This is a primary not a coronation..

[jcmaine72]

30. I honestly can't wait to see this place the night Bernie wins our Party's

nomination.

[katmondoo]

44. I will vote for Bernie but will not watch the news anymore.

[LovingA2andMI]

56. Really???

Why??

[Codeine]

77. Why?

Genuinely curious.

[NNadir]

31. Um, most of the country hasn't voted and the alleged "Democratic Front runner" is not...

...a Democrat and clearly despises Democrats.

I am tired of backwater states determining for whom I get to vote, especially when they vote for a tired old dogmatic fool.

[AverageJoe]

40. Sanders does not despise Democrats

He has built a broad and deep coalition of Democrats that transcends race, gender and age. He doesn’t like the rightward lurch of the party apparatus and neither do many, many, many of us who have been loyal Democrats our entire lives.

[NNadir]

57. I am a life long Democrat. I don't think my party has ever been "right wing."

Anyone who argues that it is hates Democrats.

On the other hand, I would consider policies like the embrace of ersatz "gun rights" as being "right wing."

I would also consider contempt for science to be "right wing."

I also consider that ideological inflexibility is a feature of being "right wing."

We have plenty of time to prevent a person from holding these "right wing" beliefs who has infiltrated our party from becoming our nominee, and real Democrats should do so.

[AverageJoe]

65. I didn't use the term "right wing"

Three points:

I am a lifelong Democrat.

I do not hate Democrats.

I said rightward lurch.

I was referring to the embrace of Third Way philosophies which began when the DLC and so-called “New Democrats” took hold.

[NNadir]

69. Well, one could split hairs to the nth degree.

I have never been concerned about the alleged "right" in the Democratic party. Not once. Ever.

The fact is that many Democrats here, myself included, express open hostility to Sanders because he is a divisive figure.

I love my country, and to me the most important thing is that there is now a Nazi in the White House. I don't give a shit about people with their heads up their asses about abstractions like "New Democrats."

I'm an old Democrat, and have been one for more than half a century. I'm disgusted by boring fixations on some kind of nebulous purity.

I would think that anyone who gave a shit about this country would recognize that some of the country isn't embracing people's vision of ideological purity. Therefore they would reject a divisive candidate.

I really, really, really, really am tired of old white men - and I'm speaking of as an old white man - running around with intellectual inflexibility.

Replacing Trump on the far right with a tired old leftist attached to a nearly extinct ideology has no appeal for me. Different ways of being incompetent and inflexible does not change the fact that it is still incompetence and inflexibility.

The Sandersnistas used to complain endlessly about having to vote for "the lesser of two evils" with their nonsensical view of reality.

If I had to vote for Sanders to get rid of Trump, I would do so, but it would be as appalling to me as the whiny bastards on the Stein/Sarandon front - some of whom refused to vote for an intelligent and decent woman in 2016 - claimed it would be for them.

A choice between TwittleTrump and TwittleBern would complete the destruction of the US intellectual infrastructure, a process that needs to be stopped, not furthered.

Now maybe you think that "New Democrats" need to be confronted more than we need to confront the Nazi in the White House.

I strongly disagree.

[AverageJoe]

70. I don't think any of the things you accuse me of thinking

Trump is not only horrid, base and evil, a creature to be driven out of the White House at any cost, but is, by definition, not even in the same universe of human and political value as any of the Democratic candidates.

I’m not splitting hairs when I differentiate between rightward and right wing. These are fundamentally different concepts.

You may be happy with the Third Way, the DLC, and neoliberalism, and that’s fine. I have no quarrel with you. I, personally, don’t like the economic and social theories at the base of this particular philosophy, however. There is clear evidence that the policies of this wing of the party are harmful to the less well off.

This is not about ideological purity. It’s about an inclusive movement toward fairness and catching up with the rest of the developed world.

Sanders is actually a unifying force in the party, as evidenced by the broad coalition he has put together which transcends race, gender, and age. I get that he threatens those who resist change, but, as the poet says, the times, they are a’changin’.

Don’t blame me for my choices and I won’t blame you for yours. If your candidate ends up catching fire and winning the nomination, I will support that person with great gusto. You can count on that, even if that is the candidate who is furthest from my own values and political leanings.

It’s not, I say again, about ideological purity. It’s about the candidate best suited to move us to a brighter future. At the end of the day, that becomes the candidate who wins the nomination. Period.

Peace.

[NNadir]

73. I am not "accusing" YOU of anything.

I am simply stating that that the language you are using strikes me as delusional.

Unifying?

Yeah. We see that all over here, don't we?

Fairness?

You are ready to declare victory based on three small states, one of which voted for Trump and two that nearly did so. How many votes are counted?

Inclusive?

Really? Everyone here is cheering for Senator Sanders?

I don't have a candidate right now. I'm strictly ABS, Anybody but Sanders. The reason I am anybody but Sanders is because of the kind of nonsense that claims that he represents a broad spectrum of Americans. This is silly to the n-th degree.

You have no information, none, that Sanders is supported by a broad coalition.

Here are the vote totals in Nevada:

Sanders 19,150 33.2% 21,869 39.3% 3,523 46.0%
Biden 9,977 17.3 10,317 18.6 1,496 19.6
Buttigieg 9,161 15.9 10,240 18.4 1,172 15.3
Warren 7,523 13.1 6,544 11.8 773 10.1

Let me get this straight, Mr or Ms. "Inclusive Broad Coalition."

We're supposed to base our definition of a "Broad" on less than 20,000 people living in a small state that nearly went for Trump in a country of over 300,000,000?

I am trying to save my country. I'll be interested in having "Peace" when the country is saved.

[AverageJoe]

80. Please, stop with the hostility

Scientific polling shows Sanders’s broad support:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2019/3/7/18216899/bernie-sanders-bro-base-polling-2020-president


I agree that most people who post on DU get angry at the thought of Senator Sanders, but DU is far more centrist than the party as a whole. This is borne out by Sander’s poll numbers and his performance thus far in the primary season. If you rely on the opinions of like minded DUrs whose opinions you trust, along with, say, MSNBC commentators, you are in danger of falling victim to confirmation bias.

Look, I’m not your enemy, nor am I trying to fight with you. If, for example, Bloomberg were to win the nomination, I would support him with all that I am. Same with any of the other candidates.

To me, Sanders represents the best of our Democratic and democratic ideals. That’s why I support him in the primaries. He may or may not become the nominee. The person that does will get my full and true support.

[musette_sf]

84. + 1

[Qutzupalotl]

32. Choosing the wrong nominee is an even better way to help Trump win.

[xocet]

34. 2016 was terrible, wasn't it? n/t

[Qutzupalotl]

36. and I don't want to repeat it.

[RandiFan1290]

46. OH SNAP!

[NoDakLinda]

42. Re:Choosing the wrong nominee is an even better way to help Trump win.

I'm sure you mean those people who are running for nominee but haven't won any Caucasus so far?

[Qutzupalotl]

68. I mean not picking the one the Republicans are begging us to nominate

and who Putin says will be the easiest for Trump to defeat.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=556109

That’s why SC Republicans are telling their members to vote for Sanders. Google “Operation Chaos 2020.”

[ehrnst]

89. I've heard of candidates staying in the race past the point where another candididate

got the number of pledged delegates to win.

So there's that.

[CrawlingChaos]

35. Amazing, isn't it?

I guess that's all we're allowed to say about it.

Fortunately this forum is in no way a reflection of the real world.

[NoDakLinda]

39. Re: Trashing the Democratic front runner is a great way to help trump win re-election.

Yes! That's why they are doing it. Ever hear of infiltration?

[Butterflylady]

50. Ever hear of cognitive thinking?

[brooklynite]

52. I suspect it would be open season as it was with Clinton in 2016...

[LovingA2andMI]

53. Facts are not trashing anyone....

They are facts. Many of us refuse to live in a "Democratic Socialist" fantasy world.

[Baclava]

59. Its called politics, comes with the territory, do people really not know how hardball politics work?

This is the big leagues, its part of the job to fight for your spot.

[vercetti2021]

60. Well he said he didn't need my help

Being part of the establishment and all

[Squinch]

61. The Democratic frontrunner trashing Democrats is a great way to help trump win too.

[TwilightZone]

64. "if the front runner were any other candidate"

Biden was attacked by Sanders supporters pretty much nonstop for months when he was the front-runner. When Warren briefly appeared to be the front-runner and had momentum, they turned on her.

He's not the first front-runner to face vehement opposition. He's not even the first this campaign cycle.

[boston bean]

66. LOL

[Sunsky]

67. So is trashing the "Democratic establishment". Whoever they may be

I agree with Sanders to an extent though, because the "establishment" should not have allowed a non-Democrat to be our standard bearer. Non-Democrats shouldn't be on our primary ballot. No surprise he's trashing Democrats.

[musette_sf]

72. "all of the vitriol"

You mean, being a Democrat and supporting Democrats?

[NurseJackie]

74. Oh dear!

[Moderateguy]

75. This is a primary and UNTIL Sanders secures the nomination

It is fair game.

You seem to have forgotten how Sanders supporters trashed Clinton long after she had secured the nomination. Or the same with Clinton supporters and Obama.

[SweetieD]

79. I'm not sure why the extreme Sanders bashing is allowed here.

[Vivienne235729]

83. But you're ok w trashing moderate dems, right?

[AverageJoe]

85. No. I'm not trashing anyone.

A moderate might well win the nomination. If so, that person will get my support.

[William769]

88. To bad your message didn't resonate in 2016

Would all of the vitriol be tolerated here if the front runner were any other candidate? I can’t imagine that it would be." Again I refer you to 2016.

[fallout87]

90. And here I thought we had rules against trashing

Democrats.... apparently it only applies to some...

[rzemanfl]

91. "We" may only apply to some. Just sayin'. n/t

[Bettie]

97. Well, it would be coming from the Bernie side if he

weren't the front-runner at this moment.

Previous experience tells me that.

People want their favorite and they get pretty snippy about it during primary season.

Hopefully, once we're settled on a nominee, everyone will be able to put aside their hurt feelings and move forward as a united party.

[democrattotheend]

98. This forum hasn't moved to general election rules yet

And probably won't for quite some time. I am disappointed, and a little stunned, to see Sanders supporters of all people act like he's already won when 47 states and the territories have yet to vote. In 2016 we fought for him not to be written off and for every state to have the chance to vote before Hillary was declared the nominee, even though she was well ahead of him by the end. That's what we believed in then. It's what Bernie believed in (and hopefully still does).

[Blue_Tires]

99. Sanders isn't a Dem...

The other candidates are.

[blm]

102. Warren was trashed all last fall. Then Biden. Then Pete.

Now Sanders.

[NurseJackie]

103. No. Nominating a vulnerable candidate is a "great" way...

... to help Trump win.