Is DU out of step with the Democratic Party?

[kentuck]

There are many DU'ers that are scared to death of Bernie Sanders. I am not one of them.

They seem to be out of step with the majority of young people in this country, and in Nevada, out of step with the Hispanic community. They went big for Bernie.

Obviously, Bernie has not won yet. But there is a trend showing. Much will depend on what happens in the next two weeks.

In my opinion, we should watch very closely the direction that the young voters are going. We should not permit ourselves to become so stuck in the past that we cannot change.

Just my opinion.

[zackymilly]

1. I am not scared of Bernie. I'm scared he will get tRump re-elected. nt

[PTWB]

45. Do you blame Hillary for Trump's election in the first place?

I certainly hope NOT.

[Demsrule86]

161. Actually, I blame Sanders for not helping her in the General sufficiently...but I would vote for him

in a New York second if I believed he has a snowballs's chance in hell to win a General...sure I vote for him in the General...but in the primary, it is anyone but Sanders including Bloomberg.

[walkingman]

48. That was my main concern also - however, I always like Bernie and I think I will support him in

the Texas March 3rd primary. I supported him in the 2016 primary and he has not changed. I will not let the talking heads convince me that he is wrong. I'm waiting until after the SC primary to make a firm commitment.

[cab67]

128. "wrong" and "ineffective" aren't the same thing.

I like a lot of what he says, but if I saw any indication that he could turn his ideals into reality - a solid track record of legislative accomplishment in Congress, for example - I'd be more inclined to support him.

[5X]

139. nobody thought dotard could do what he has done. n/t

[cab67]

158. Many of us knew damn well he could.

Republicans are not like Democrats. They do what they’re told.

Most of the really bad stuff Trump has done has come in the form of Executive Orders. None of what Sanders wants to accomplish (other than reverse some of Trump’s executive orders) can be done that way.

[walkingman]

163. I think reality is this - it all comes down to Congress. Unless we can gain control of the Senate

then nothing a Dem POTUS wants will pass. They have proven that they are united against anything the Democratic Party wants (unlike the Dems) and will basically block EVERYTHING a Dem POTUS wants other than executive orders. If we do take the Senate then Bernie's agenda is possible if we stick together. I worry more about the actions of the DNC than anything. In 2016 they were disastrous and a brokered convention by the Super delegates will cause total chaos.

United we stand - divided we fall! That is reality.

[cab67]

172. That is reality.

However, Sanders doesn't have a good track record of uniting Democrats behind him. Bernie's agenda would DOA regardless of the makeup of the Senate.

[scipan]

187. He is doing pretty good with the rank and file Dems so far.

Lotta crystal ball watching around here. Wish I had one.

[cab67]

188. This is the article that made me really think twice about Sanders.

It was written shortly after the 2016 election. Much of it is hindsight about that election, but a lot of what it says about Sanders should be strongly considered by anyone supporting him.

https://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044

[DENVERPOPS]

80. EXACTLY, ZM

The younger ones are all swept up with enthusiasm and idealism, just like we were.
Then, we got older and got more pragmatic and rational.

This is the time to focus on one thing: Who is electable.

I asked a Bernie person the other day: Why do you think that Trump has been trying to destroy Biden for months and months.?????
Why do you think Putin is trying to get Bernie nominated, not Biden.
They can't answer my question............

[5X]

140. I can, he is the opposite of dotard.

[DENVERPOPS]

200. Your answer doesn't make sense

Why do you think Putin is trying to get Bernie nominated, not Biden.

Because Bernie is the opposite of Trump?????? That's why Putin is trying to get Bernie elected?

More important, is why didn't Bernie disclose this knowledge to the public and voters???????????

I don't understand your comment........

[dansolo]

212. Bernie and Trump are two sides of the same coin

Bernie vs Trump is a win-win for Putin. Neither has shown any inclination to challenge him.

[ehrnst]

220. +1000.

[stopwastingmymoney]

229. Putin is about chaos

I don’t believe he would want Bernie to win the Presidency.

He just wants the division we fear from his nomination.

[dchill]

2. As always, DU is both in AND out of step.

Opinions on the subject vary wildly.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

3. No more "out of step" than any given slice of the party.

[Squinch]

4. No. Because usually young people don't vote. When they did, in 2018, they went for moderates

and Bernie's and Our Revolution's candidates got clobbered. No matter what Bernie and his followers say, over and over and over, young people historically do not come out for Bernie. There is no reason to believe that will change.

The hispanic vote in Nevada is interesting. But so far, it is the only time that's happened.

[jimfields33]

9. Texas and California will be the next state to see Hispanics vote in droves for sanders

[Squinch]

13. And if they do, good for him. But so far all his promises of hordes of voters in his pocket have

always been broken.

[jimfields33]

15. No matter what. I'd rather be in Bernie's position then any others

[Squinch]

17. Right now, yes. Lots of powerful people from all over are supporting him.

[jimfields33]

20. Yep.

[Squinch]

22. Uh huh.

[Butterflylady]

40. That's a good one Squinsh.

I got a chuckle out of that one. The only one that has gotten endorsements from a lot of very important people is Biden.

[Squinch]

41. You know I wasn't talking about endorsements, right?

[musette_sf]

166. Yep.

"Congratulations Bernie, & don’t let them take it away from you!"

Link to tweet

?s=20

[dustyscamp]

202. It looks like Trump wants Bernie to win and also wants to make the DNC appear corrupt

[Demsrule86]

162. If he is the nominee and loses...history will not be kind to Sanders...he will cost this party and

the Republic much.

[musette_sf]

167. + 1

[jimfields33]

175. Good thing he's not going to lose

[boston bean]

25. Young Hispanic are more with Bernie, older ones are not and will not vote for a socialist.

We are fucked. Trump already had 28% of Hispanics which is mind blowing.

So Bernie will have a third if they vote. Where do the others go?

[johnthewoodworker]

58. Lighten up. Let the rank and file choose. Hillary was a moderate, supported by the democratic

majority, and lost the general. Maybe it's the right time for a progressive.

[Squinch]

145. Well, the rank and file and...others.

[ehrnst]

159. Trying to smear and bait someone by attacking a straw man is also not a good look.

[delisen]

231. Lost the general to Putin. He helped her opponent.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

203. I've tried tellin peeps this, which is part of what's drivin Bernie's inevitability...

Add to that Bernie's gains with AA's in recent months and the nomination is pretty much in the bag for Bernie... it's time now for healing and uniting under the Bernie Banner to defeat the existential threat presented by the Fascist-in-Chief!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[CBHagman]

141. People always want a simple narrative, don't they?

And the reality is that we all have to learn to be involved and informed and vote, no matter how we're feeling.

We've seen people sit out the midterms after the excitement of a presidential election, but the midterms determine who gets into the Senate for six years. That really needs to be emphasized again and again.

[randr]

5. I am closely watching the direction of young voters

and hope to support their candidate of choice. If they show signs of actually showing up. The treat to not participate if they don't get Bernie causes me concern over how patriotic and serious they are about their own future.
I am also keeping a close eye on minority choices. Their votes may be more critical in this election than the youth.
In the end I will probable follow who our African American community supports.

[Sympthsical]

6. DU, from my lurking, skews a lot older

Older people don’t care for Bernie.

He’s at 50% in polling of voters under 50.

That clearly isn’t the case here. This is a much older forum, so it gets weird. And social media are self-curating. It creates bubbles. “Well, I don’t know anyone who . . . “

People don’t hate Bernie as much as this place does. I already got a hide for saying “Don’t be obtuse.” That was my great offense. People here are fiercely protective of their bubble. I mean, go for it. If you must.

[rzemanfl]

31. Hmmm. n/t

[Butterflylady]

43. I for one older voter here do not buy the utopian world

Sanders is pushing. I've been around long enough to know that's not the way it works.

[Sympthsical]

60. It's really not

He won’t get elected and magically all will change. Nothing works that way. But he will push and fight. That’s what people are voting for. Someone who will fight.

[ehrnst]

154. Someone with people skills gets far more accomplished than someone who is always

simply yelling and fighting.

As we have seen.

[Sympthsical]

173. That's why I want Warren over him

I’m not a Sanders supporter. I just think the hate has grown ridiculous.

I don’t think he’d get along with Congress in the way needed to push through reforms.

I think Warren could.

[dbolski]

174. I don't buy that.

It may be easier to deal with the people in power by giving them honey instead of vinegar, but it doesn't result in better policy. An effective leader has to be able to say NO to the ruling class when it's in the best interest of the public.

[denverbill]

65. As another older voter, I've been waiting for a candidate like Bernie since the 1980s.

How is it that Lyndon Johnson passed a socialist program to fund health care for retirees in the 1960s, but that nearly 60 years later, expanding that program to everyone is a utopian fantasy?

How is it that since the 80's, Republicans keep managing to slash taxes on the wealthy with no problem, but when Democrats are in power, they aren't able to revert those cuts? Why is that a utopian fantasy?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

77. Me too... thankfully, the long wait is OVER!! It's Bernie's time now & he'll get the job done!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[ancianita]

106. I've been to the left of Bernie since the 70's, so I got no problem with his presidency.

He'll have a LOT of transition help, great advice and expertise available to him. And if we get the Senate, he'll have all the enthusiastic support he needs to regain and redirect this Ship of The Republic.

The longer we wait, the harder it will get to ever return to the just peace and tranquility of a nation of laws, not the unjust peace of a corporate plantation.

[PatrickforO]

151. I'm with you. Those are darned good questions.

The only reason the socialist program to fund health care for everyone is a 'utopian fantasy' is that big pharma and health insurance lobbies are lining up big bucks against it. Because they want profits over people.

[ehrnst]

155. He didn't do it by calling it a socialist program, and he had to lie about what it would cost

because he knew it wouldn't pass if that estimated price tag was knows.

One can't do that now with the CBO.

Also, Lyndon Johnson had people skills and the respect and regard of his colleagues in the Senate, and didn't simply tell anyone who didn't agree with him that they were shills for the AMA.

[tecelote]

211. +1!

[KSNY]

71. Have you ever been in European countries or Canada or any other developed country?

With affordable health care, higher education, and decent infrastructure?

[Sympthsical]

112. I lived in Europe for four years

So, yes.

[ehrnst]

157. I lived in the UK. And I also know that they got started on it a lifetime ago.

And it took way longer than 2 years to get where they are now, starting from scratch, from people having NOTHING, and when medicine was far less expensive because we didn't have all the technology we have, and expanding incrementally to keep costs down, rather than slashing costs.

They were also not dealing with a very conservative SCOTUS that struck down the mandates for states to participate in Medicaid expansion, and will certainly rule in favor of the same for participation in the expansion of Medicare.

If you think that it can all be run at the federal level, you are not looking at the way Canada does it - they administer it like Medicaid.

Bernie doesn't talk about any of that, does he?

Let alone fact that the state with the political will to send him to the Senate didn't have the stomach for the increase in taxes that were proposed. In fact, he gets rather testy with anyone who asks him about any lessons that could be learned from the failure of Green Mountain Care. That shows me that he has no interest in, or is not really capable of understanding the possible obstacles in the implementation of single payer in action in the US.

?

[KSNY]

184. But with a large turnout of new voters the Senate could swing...

and the Supreme Court composition will change under the next President. Taxes on the wealthy and corporations will increase...and good for that. I agree with your (and my...along with Bernie) candidate, Elizabeth Warren, that there may need to be compromises. However, one does not begin negotiations by aiming low. Why not aim for Medicare for all, rather than starting out halfway and negotiating down.

[ehrnst]

185. That does not change the logistics of this kind of upheaval of a system in TWO YEARS even it if does

pass.

[KSNY]

189. Yes, and it is the reason why whatever Democratic candidate is elected, must have coattails

in the Senate and the House. I do not believe that everything will be in place in two years, but with the Senate and House, the damage Trump has done can begin to be reversed. None of the Democratic candidates will be able to do everything they have proposed in two years.

[ehrnst]

215. Of course we need a Democrat. I feel that promising a complete overhaul of the

health care system financing with no disruption to health care doesn't display a respect for expertise on the topic, and seems to reject any expert critique of their promise.

That's the last thing we need in the WH after Trump, so I'm not going to vote for that in the Primary.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

228. THIS x 1,000!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[SMC22307]

207. "Utopian world." LOL Yeah, $15/hour utopia.

Voting against the illegal invasion of Iraq = utopia.

Eliminating private prisons = utopia.

Support public schools and boost teacher pay = utopia.

Citizenship for Dreams = utopia.

Get a fucking grip and lose the right-wing buzzwords.

[johnthewoodworker]

62. I'm 60 y.o.and think Bernie is fine. Like his stance on the issues.

[lildDemz]

100. Older

I agree, Sympthsical. Fear seems to be the driver of anti-Sanders rants. Hey, can anyone picture Sanders suddenly turning Congress into socialists? Not by a long shot. Foul language is a tipoff to old folks' postings. I am 70+, I'm with Warren and Sanders.

[brutus smith]

119. I'm older and I like Bernie.

[Sympthsical]

132. It's not a truism

Just something I’ve both observed and seen born out in all the polling.

[Boomer]

147. Here's one older voter who likes Bernie

I'm a lifelong Democrat and I voted for Sanders in the 2016 primary, Clinton in the general election.

This time around, Bernie is not my first choice, but I'm not scared of him. I also think he has a lot more appeal than many Democrats realize. Personally, I think he's more likely to beat Trump than Biden would. But we'll never know either way, because only one person can run at a time.

If Warren doesn't get the nomination, I'm okay with Sanders.

[musicblind]

164. I'm 37 and going for Biden.

I have no idea the age of the average DU'er. Enthusiasts of political history, tend to be older.

[mike_c]

201. I'm 65 and Sanders is the candidate I've waited most of my life for.

Lots of us grey beards are on the Bernie train. Many of my friends and colleagues in the same general age group support Sanders as well.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

204. Has anyone ever run a poll to get a snapshot of the age range of DU members?

Would be interesting to see.


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[Liberty Belle]

206. I'm 62 and paying $2,000 a month for hubby's healthcare and mine - it's breaking us.

Sanders is the only one unabashedly calling for Medicare for All. It's overly idealistic given Congress but if you don't start by calling for what's right, what do you have? Obamacare never helped us, since we make just a little too much for any subsidies. We're stuck for now with employer healthcare for a lousy HMO that went up 50% over last year. It's immoral and we can't wait any longer.

I'm back in the Sanders camp on this issue. I would support Warren, too. The rest are good on most issues, but not good enough on healthcare to solve our most pressing problem.

I have talked to many seniors who are between 60 and 65 and are paying $900 or $1,000 a month for healthcare. Ours combined is more than our mortgage. We never could have planned for this. If we didn't have a bit of savings we'd have lost our house -- and here in California, you'll soon have to pay a fine if you don't have healthcare that's hundreds of dollars, so there is really NO choice, not even taking your chances with no health insurance.

Most of the people I know in their 50s and 60s are now supporting Sanders or Warren for those reasons. He's not just for the kids.

[cherryinpa]

7. Not scared of Bernie

I feel the math is simple, and gives us four paths:

1. Biden nominated = 95% chance we win in Nov.
2. Amy/Liz/Pete = 75% chance we win in Nov.
3. Bernie nominated = 55% chance we win in Nov.
4. Bloomberg nominated = 25% chance we win in Nov.

Obviously, prefer #1 or #2 rather than #3 considering what's at stake, but eventually, we'll still make it.

Yes, the Bernie policy stuff is a little edgy, but has little chance of passing anyway so no big deal.

[PTWB]

47. What is this math based on?

[TheRickles]

123. "math"?

This "math" is based on the same thing that cherryinpa's post yesterday about "rumors" in NV was based on - his/her personal opinions. It's fine to post opinions, but misleading language is, well, misleading.

[highplainsdem]

8. Sanders is dangling a $2+ trillion carrot in front of those young voters, $1.6 trlllion in student

loan forgiveness plus free college.

No surprise they back Sanders.

No surprise Sanders' mention of student debt forgiveness in his speech last night got the loudest cheer.

If you dangle a finanical windfall in front of gullible people, you're likely to get their support.

Sanders can't deliver on that promise, but he's counting on the people trying to vote themselves that financial windfall not knowing that.

[cherryinpa]

11. Well

If he wins they definitely wont get that $2T which is pure fantasy, but they might get something at least. It's fair to help them out, they are younger generation. So you don't always get what you want, but you get what you need.

[highplainsdem]

16. Other candidates are offering achievable plans, with reasonable price tags, that are targeted at

helping the people who really need the help.

Not a regressive debt forgiveness plan that would give most of the money to people who can afford to repay those loans.

Sanders came out with his "forgive all the damn debt" plan after Warren offered a more reasonable plan (though hers was still regressive). He was clearly just outbidding Warren for the youth vote.

[mitch96]

88. "If he wins they definitely wont get that $2T"

Any well laid plan changes with first contact with the opposition... Old military dictum..
Of course it wont be EXACTLY what he proposes.. No grand idea ever is.. The old "sausage" analogy of politics... As long as the idea of healthcare for all is maintained I'm ok with it..
No matter which democrat get in..
Vote BLUE no matter who
Dump the TURD NOVEMBER THIRD!!
YMMV
m

[johnthewoodworker]

64. Too bad republicans are not concerned about price tags. $1.8 trillion tax cut with a

defense department increase. No problem. Lets build a wall.

[Baked Potato]

92. Maybe in their minds the government will just print more money.

Can we blame them? After all, the government always comes up with money for whatever the MIC wants. Why should anyone care about debt and deficits? The young folks believe in YOLO.

[Nasruddin]

125. Isn't that demographic notorious for not voting?

[link:http://www.electproject.org/home/voter-turnout/demographics|
Altho the college attendees' vote is elsewhere reported as closer to 50% in 2018.

[highplainsdem]

127. Usually. Though if they expect 5- or 6-figure financial windfalls, that might motivate them.

[Corgigal]

156. Yep,

wait till they find out, that nothing will come true.

I guess no one remembers how much work it was for Obama to get his health plan. They are still using the courts to roll it back.

[octoberlib]

160. And let's say he writes an executive order for debt forgiveness instead of trying to

get it through Congress, it will immediately be challenged in court where there's a good chance it would be overturned.

[mdelaguna]

234. Has anyone done the math on defense spending and wealthy tax cuts vis a vis those promises?

I am sincerely asking (not trying to stir the pot).

[Wabbajack_]

10. I have no info on DU demographics but

I would strongly suspect that collectively DUers are older, Whiter, and well-er off than the party electorate at large.

[Baclava]

27. Seeing how Bernie energized his base of young and Latinos to win in a landslide, u might be right

.... but its early yet, lol

[rzemanfl]

34. I will decide whether "well-er" is a word while I wash socks. n/t

[dalton99a]

50. Hope your washer is industrial-strength and has a long warranty

[rzemanfl]

52. I do socks by hand. The washer is 72 years old. n/t

[Butterflylady]

44. I'm not well to do. I'm lucky to be able

To get groceries by the end of the month.

[VarryOn]

87. My suspicion too except the part about DUers being more well off nt

[Autumn]

12. Way out of step. As Joy Reid said. "We underestimated the rage of people working 3 jobs"

I think the demographic of DU skews older and more moderate.

[comradebillyboy]

14. I's my party and I'll cry if I want to

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

18. The denial & fear of Bernie's candidacy will soon turn to acceptance then we'll all unite as a Party

cuz that's what Democrats do!! I have no doubt about that... the Democratic Party will fall in line under the Bernie Banner as Bernie continues to speak truth to power, shining the light of progressivism in leading his fellow Democrats and showing them the the way forward in defeating the Fascist-in-Chief!! Young people are usually the ones who get a political movement started, as it gain's steam and transforms into a revolution!!

You are so right tho kentuck... the trend is our friend and so is BERNIE!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[denem]

63. I don't see the party uniting if Bloomberg is nominated.

I just don't.

[The Mouth]

73. Neither do I

I really loathe Bloomberg.

And his strong anti-gun stance is poison in several battleground states.

[TwilightZone]

19. DU doesn't represent anything other than DU.

It's never been indicative of the mainstream or the party. It's a niche website with a specific audience.

I'm not "scared to death" of Bernie Sanders, but I think many are too dismissive of concerns regarding how he will be vetted in the general election, should he win the nomination. We need to understand what's going to happen and be prepared to deal with it, rather than burying our heads in the sand. There's very little of the former going on with some of his supporters, and much of the latter.

[Butterflylady]

49. Your post is so well said.

They are so focused on the primaries they have no idea what is going to happen in the GE.

[brutus smith]

126. Neither do you.

[pazzyanne]

83. I "feel" the same way.

I like many of Bernie's policies, but am concerned about what path he will take to accomplish his objectives. He is a little sketchy on how the finances will be worked out. Elizabeth Warren mapped out her plan with finances included, which did result in her adapting her plan. I do not see Bernie doing this. It is part of my worry about him.

[calimary]

102. Indeed.

[apcalc]

21. I don't know. At least here I see a bit of balance.

Some other “ liberal” sites are so skewed, I see strong parallels to conservative nutjob ‘journalism’, except from the other direction.

[OliverQ]

23. Yes.

This forum has so much disdain for Bernie, it reminds me of the meltdown happening on MSNBC and CNN. Chris Matthews compared Bernie to a Nazi and said 4 more years of Trump would be better than Bernie.

[octoberlib]

24. The political reality is that to get a majority

in the House and Senate and win the electoral college in the GE , we have to win in purple / red districts. Not a single Our Revolution candidate won in one of these districts in 2018. Not. A. Single. One This fact probably has more influence than any of Bernie’s positions because the ONLY thing that ever matters is winning.

[Squinch]

26. Oh, please, oh please, make this an OP!!!

[Squinch]

30. Yeah. The long knives are out. And the Russian elves. I'm sorry to hear that.

[rzemanfl]

35. Please self-delete. n/t

[Tom Rinaldo]

42. Bernie is the one and only Bernie

Elections are not just about ideology. You might note that Republicans who try to model themselves after Trump, in Virginia, in Kentucky and elsewhere, do not do nearly as well as Trump when the election isn't nationalized. Sanders has a broad based personal populist appeal that many here fail to fully understand or appreciate.

[Butterflylady]

57. Oh, we understand it.

We are not stupid. We are well aware that he has a personal populist appeal but that is not enough this time. Sanders has no idea what he's going to up against, especially the money. He has to get not only democrats, he has to get the never trumpers along with independents that lean republican. I don't care how much you argue that, it won't happen.

[johnthewoodworker]

72. Has everyone forgot about the 2016 election. We had a moderate democratic candidate that lost.

[pazzyanne]

93. That moderate candidate won the popular vote and was thoroughll vetted before the election.

Unfortunately she did not win the electoral college. My fear is that the same thing will happen with Bernie who has not been vetted prior to this election. Getting a second term of the orange menace scares the hell out of me!

[delisen]

232. Maybe you should read up on Russian involvement in our elections

and consider working on countering it.

[pazzyanne]

235. My guess is that I know about Russian involvement as much or more than most.

I am involved in League of Women's Voters, working campaigns, doing voter registration, working Democratic information booths, supporting ACLU, working phone banks, watching legislatures work on C-Span, check out daily updates (newspapers and on-line), etc. I also vet the candidates and their platforms before I donate to them. Guess you could call me a political junky and I don't have time to add more to my personal schedule. The one thing I don't do is tell others what they need to do because I don't know them.

[Desert grandma]

179. So true.

It is very shortsighted not to be aware of 2018 results in red and purple districts. I hope you will make this an OP, because I wholeheartedly agree.

[empedocles]

28. Agreed. So obvious. Yet, severe blinders, at both ends of the political

spectrum - want to be oblivious to the future impacts of the trumps, and Sanders, types.

[Yes, it is possible that the far left, will have a future impact years down the road. They may have an opposite impact, ala the Nixon, Reagan, Bush era. However, in my opinion, to recycle an old football chliche, 'the future is now'].

[LakeArenal]

32. Not scared of Bernie. I just don't like him.

I don’t like his”squad”. I don’t like his tactics. I don’t like his campaign.

I’m not alone. But calling it fear is also a tactic that is misleading at best.

[dalton99a]

90. +1

[pazzyanne]

95. +1

[Paladin]

146. +1.

[Dem2]

192. True.

[ehrnst]

221. +1000.

[k2qb3]

33. Yes, because much of the membership is older than Bloomberg.

Too short a time horizon, too conservative, and too far behind the accelerating pace of change.

[Turbineguy]

36. It's more that the Democratic Party

is out of step with DU.

As they say in England, "Fog in the Channel, Continent isolated."

[beachbumbob]

37. DU is not representative of mainstream democrats, never has been but no big deal.

also this game is not over for MONTHS

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

70. Bernie's not playin games here...tRumpty Dumbty's an existential threat, which is why we need Bernie

the BIG DOG to take on Dolt45's stanky ass!! We only got one shot at this... and Bernie as our Democratic nominee gives us our BEST shot!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[Laelth]

38. This thread is fascinating, don't you think?

When I joined DU in 2004, DU was considered to be much more liberal than the party as a whole. When you joined in 2001, DU was considered flat-out radical.

These days, you and I are old fuddy-duddies, but we're still liberal. LOL. We haven't changed, but the party has. I suppose I am pleased to think that the party has finally caught up with us. The Democratic Party is far more liberal now than it was in 2001 when DU was launched. At this point, some posters are telling us that DU is, actually, more conservative than the Democratic Party as a whole.

Fascinating.

-Laelth

[TwilightZone]

198. It's often couched in ageism.

"DU trends way older than the party as a whole" is often used as a vague insult. The site has certainly changed, but there's always been a segment here that believes that anyone to the right of them is a centrist, a moderate, or a conservative. Some don't really do nuance and many don't understand that "moderate" and "moderate Democrat" are two different things on the ideological scale. The moderate Democrats in the race, for example, are still liberals.

At least the Ron Paul supporters have left the building. He was a thing here for a while. I always found it funny that some on the same site where Dennis Kucinich was wildly popular fell for perhaps the most conservative politician in US political history.

It's always been an interesting place and difficult to categorize.

[Laelth]

209. I adore(d) Kucinich.

I know what you mean.



-Laelth

[karynnj]

39. Out of line in multiple ways

DU started after the Gore loss in 2000. While I remember many college students and other 20 somethings around 2005 when I first became very active, most of those people who I "knew" left years ago. I suspect that 2016 led to many younger people who chose Sanders over Clinton felt uncomfortable especially during the primary and again after she lost.

In 2000 - 2008, DU was also more liberal than the Democratic universe. Now, we still may be more liberal than a random select of Democrats selected to match our age profile. That might be why Warren tops our preferences.

It might also show that the shift to the left in the party is less people moving their positions than the younger people, possibly because they entered the job market after the 2008 collapse of the market, being more liberal/progressive than we are. (In my own family, our three daughters are usually to our left on most issues.)

[Garrett78]

46. Way, way, way out of step. And it's not just an age thing.

And folks here are married to false assumptions about so-called independents, moderates and undecideds. This becomes an echo chamber for those false notions.

[pazzyanne]

99. So, I thought this was a place to come to discuss differences of opinions.

It has now become a place where people with differences of opinions are now being judged? How does that help? I have never found judgement calls as a base of discussions to be helpful.

[Garrett78]

103. The OP is asking for a judgement call. As are most threads, actually.

[Gore1FL]

245. +1

I am so tired of hearing the tired-and-failed strategies behind the tired talking points extolling the virtues of a middle we can't seem to get votes from despite decades of attempts.

[delisen]

51. Are you factoring in Russia or discounting any role?

The fear is not of Sanders. The fear is of losing to Trump and losing our only lever in government . the House-which we clawed back without Sanders.

We have 1/2 of 1 of 3 branches of government

We can't afford to coronate Sanders or any candidate out of fear of giving Republicans talking points--they already have their talking points

The path to winning is this time the willingness to have a real primary battle and total vetting to produce real unity

Stakes are too high to be dragging or pushing. Democrats along or imposing and demanding afalse unity .

[Meadowoak]

69. It doesn't matter who our candidate is, Russia will try to deliver a victory to tRump/Putin.

[delisen]

76. I am talking about choosing a primary candidate

And the fact that Sanders was told that Putin is helping him in the primary.

[Fresh_Start]

53. Bernie is not going to be effective...and there is a significant possibility

that his nomination will lose the democratic party seats in the house, senate, and state governments.

Bernie voters are not looking at the entire picture.

[lunasun]

54. Even if most here are stuck in the past, they should remember this about their fear of a label 1952

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

74. BOOOOOOOOMMM!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[Laelth]

110. k&r for the truth.

Now THAT is a Democrat.



-Laelth

[booley]

55. yes.

I don't want to say it but yes.

Every time Sanders wins or is ahead, there are a slew of posts here about how it doesn't matter.

But it does matter.

[guillaumeb]

56. Recommended.

DU is a small subset of Democratic voters. Opinions expressed there are the opinions of a very few.

[yaesu]

59. its possible them some don't consider themselves progressives. I, for one, have been backing

progressive candidates since the 80's. took me that long to realize that was the right path for We The People.

[mountain grammy]

61. The only thing we have to fear

Is fear itself. Truth from FDR. We can’t operate from a position of fear.

[TheSocialDem]

66. The Bernie bashing/hatred is unreal. "Moderates" need to get a fucking clue, settle down,

Hold their nose if they have to, and support sanders. Holy shit

[johnthewoodworker]

79. As a progressive democrat since 1980 who has seen numerous candidates fall to the wayside

during the primaries, I have held my nose and voted for the moderate candidate frequently. Many of whom lost.
If Bernie is our candidate and a socialist, than so am I.

[druidity33]

190. Hear here! K&R, nt.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

84. Don't worry, the Baseless Bernie Bashing Backlash is REAL & why Bernie has the nomination wrapped up

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[IronLionZion]

67. This place used to be too cool for school

with DUers relentlessly attacking our party from the left, cursing out the 50 state strategy that got us both houses of congress in 2006, cursing out Obama for being too moderate, and then cheering on the Tea Party shellacking of 2010 that saw a lot of red state moderates replaced by complete assholes.

Some of the anti-H1B crowd openly cursed out Hillary for her support of that program and then probably quietly voted for Trump hoping he would kill it.

Things are a bit more sensible now to me. Younger voters are more diverse and open to lefty ideas as a starting place before we compromise it down to a more moderate policy.

[ancianita]

68. I've had that feeling for awhile now. Mostly because we're more aware and prone to punditry. imo

I've kept my eye on the young. It's not an issue of age of candidate for them. It's the issue of vision. My 31 year-old millennial son is a Democratic delegate in Grant County, New Mexico, and pushes Bernie, and so do his millennial friends.

Bernie has voiced the climate crisis issue most, after Jay Inslee; and that, along with M4A, are their main causes. And they don't care about transparency about his health, either. They see him run rally circles around the rest, so they're not worried.

When it comes to the young, we better recognize.

[oldsoftie]

75. "Out of step" on a lot of things. And hypocritical as well

[Demsrule86]

78. DU is full of experienced folks who understand that Sanders will lose a general and give

Trump four more years...consider a 6-3 court. I would say that some who no longer support the party are involved in this and operation chaos Republicans also. All you have to do is look at state governments,the Senate and courts...to see that we live in a center left country at best...and Sanders will lose badly. And I honestly don't know if we survive four more years of Trump. Hubs and I will most likely use the right of return and go to Ireland. He is first generation...and our family could go. I have a gay Daughter...a 6-3 court threatens her life. Also, just to let you all know, it it comes between Sanders and Bloomberg, I choose Bloomberg...at least he has a shot to win the general. I am hoping Biden wins and am glad he was in second...moderates need to drop out and leave one candidate or I believe we will end up with Bloomberg.

[johnthewoodworker]

89. I keep pointing out to people that our moderate candidate lost in the 2016 election.

I don't think your confidence that a moderate candidate can win is well founded.

[rzemanfl]

98. Hillary won by 3 million votes.

Drumpf won the electoral college by about 80,000 votes spread over three states because of Russian help individually targeting gullible voters and GOP suppression. You can keep telling us that though.

[bucolic_frolic]

81. Politics is about governing, it's not about free living

Sure the young want financial help, we all do or did. But life looks differently over 50 or so. Wisdom develops, consequences are appreciated or learned, the future becomes the next generations. If we go the bubble gum society route and make everything free for 20 somethings, lessons aren't learned. They become like Trump, no limits to anything. Choices have tradeoffs, lost opportunities.

So no, youngsters should learn life's lessons from us and not avoid them or be sheltered from them. We can't learn from them, we did our own choices at their age and learned from the fallout. They should too. That's just the natural order of life.

[ancianita]

101. Each generation has new visions and more skills to implement them than the last. Don't think

old age wisdom about the value of experience is not something today's young take into account. They do. Which is why they reject candidates who don't support their vision and priorities.

For the young it's more about the climate crisis and M4A than financial help. We can afford all of it if we start ending yearly $5 TRILLION in big fossil subsidies starting next year. That is no small surplus. We can also afford to drop military funding by at least 5% and carry out a lot more domestic restructuring.

I'm pretty sure, given the 2018 wave, that youth and new voters are not sitting this election out, no matter who the nominee is.

[dlk]

82. I think the fear comes from the fact that Bernie can't win against Trump

Whether or not you like Bernie and his ideas. Whether or not you understand he doesn’t possess the temperament and negotiating skills required to get things done in Washington. His track record speaks for itself. Bernie is Putin’s preferred candidate. Why is that? This is the time for living in reality and dealt with facts, and not falling back on magical thinking. If Bernie is the Democratic candidate, make no mistake, Trump’s re-election is in the bag.

[dalton99a]

97. +1. And people should care about the next four years under Trump

[dlk]

176. Another Trump term would mean the end of our republic

Look at the amount of damage he’s caused so far.

[dalton99a]

178. +1. And for climate change, EIGHT years wasted.

But the Revolution must come first

[Farmer-Rick]

85. It's a pendulum swinging.

back and forth.

Shorty Putin's trolls get in and exaggerate the arc. You can bet the trolls do not want Bernie. The Putin trolls want the weakest candidate to win. I'm not sure who that is. I'm pretty sure the trolls don't know either. So, they just spread hate and disunity.

Which is why corporate media has claimed shorty Putin favored Bernie. We know the owners of the media don't want Bernie. He might actually tax them. Putin's approval is the kiss of death for a Democratic candidate. What he did to Hillary's win is a crime but we still have his puppet for president. So, the media gets in their punches too, in order to force the arc one way or another.

So, it's back and forth, back and forth.

[mahannah]

86. Excellent. Thanks for posting.

[Nitram]

91. Bernie doesn't scare me, and I will vote for him if he wins the nomination.

He is not my first or second choice however because I prefer the policies and plans for getting there that other candidates have suggested. I'm kind of tired of Bernie supporters suggesting that people who support other candidates ahead of Bernie are "scared" of him.

[ismnotwasm]

94. Hell no

DU has strong opinions, and apparently is full of retirement age or near retirement age folks, but most of our front runners are that age. Sanders is 78.

The Democratic Party is what it is, which is even how Bernie Sanders has been able to get this far. He uses the Democratic Party infrastructure to run for President.

Bernie Sanders campaign has a fabulous ground game...using the Democratic Party...his Latino outreach is very effective and while I will never, ever be impressed with Bernie Sanders, I am extremely impressed with his campaign outreach.

Last time all I heard about was “economic justice”. Pissed me off no end.

I now go on any youth driven social media, and you will find younger folks pulling out historical injustices with zero expectations that social justice is a thing that will be “fixed” by more dollars, but understand more economically fair dollars will help in the fight. I’m finding people of all races, supporting Bernie in a way I’m not seeing in other candidates, indigenous, Latino, Hispanic, Black, younger women not afraid of calling themselves feminists. Young People who were all in for Hillary Clinton last election behind Bernie Sanders this one.


So the DU bickering is common. It’s not a sign of being out of touch. Also, ahem.. DU does have a search function, but there’s no going back, we can only go forward.

Bernie Sanders will shortly know if he has it in the bag, it’s by no means a surety yet, but it looks very good for him. Yes, I will be disappointed, but I will support the nominee, because one of the many things Bernie Sanders won’t do, is offer another conservative creep to the Supreme Court.

[Pluvious]

96. Is it possible that...

He can motivate the most new voters to actually cast their votes ?

The voting public is so unpredictable, I'm mystified over some DUers' immutable faith in their own assessments of who can and cannot defeat the BLOTUS.

It's easy to get blinded in an echo chamber.

[David__77]

104. It's not perfectly representative, of course.

It never has been. I do think that it’s highly likely to be very different demographically. Also, I think there is probably more “extremism.” I don’t mean that in the left-right sense, I mean it in the sense of something like “factionalism” and fixed ideas. At least it seems that way to me based on what I read. Then again, what I’m referring to could be related to frequency of expressing a viewpoint on certain issues.

In reading posts on this site four years ago, I thought it was very strongly pro-Sanders and also anti-Clinton. There was certainly a shift since that time in the viewpoints of some and also certainly in who is posting.

I think that among relatively “political-minded” people generally, there can be a lot of nuance and openness that I don’t necessarily take to indicate a lack of education or resolve- in many cases I think it’s a willingness to take a second look, and another, and not necessarily through the lens of existing perspectives. I think that can be a good quality.

Sometimes politics can be like team sports and tidy and digestible “talking points” can be created and used, sometimes with at least a bit of cynicism. After having held such a talking point as a sort of tool, I think one can come to wholly believe it and then be under the effect of it.

Just as an aside: it’s about a couple thousand people in all, likely, who have posted in the primaries forum. At least I think so based on data on incremental changes in candidate support that have been reported (backing out likely associated underlying values).

[trof]

105. 77, recent heart attack victim, won't release medical records.

Russia wants Bernie as our nominee and Donnie Two-Scoops as our president.
And the repugs will use him to brand ALL dems as 'socialists and commies'.
They're already doing it.
repugs keep the senate.

BUT...if he gets the nomination I will vote for him.

[PubliusEnigma]

107. Lots of people like to be told they can have everything with no sacrifice or hard work.

Especially young people.

It's a shame that some play upon this fact for their own puproses.

[Nasruddin]

136. Man, I think that's EVERYBODY

It must be in human DNA.

What I have learned is that when you hire these dreamers/promisers, you need to be asking who is going to manage the budget, what their track record is, & some reasonable story about how you're going to pay for your plans. From now on, for President, I want to know who is on their list for OMB, who is going to be budgeting their proposals, & why these budgets will work. And I want to know about your personal finances. For instance, I don't care so much if you've gone bankrupt but I want to know what you learned.

If the country had done that with Mr Trump his inability and unwillingness to respond should've been disqualifying even if you believed in his ideas. Trade wars are easy to win - says the man with zero experience.

[redqueen]

108. Yes. Out of step with most voters and Dem voters in particular.

All you have to do is go back and look at all the crowing about how the primary was definitely going to go from back before voting started.

[Puppyjive]

109. Son is voting this year

I've watched my son mature in the last 4 years. When Trump ran in the last election, my son wanted him to win. It was a shocker to me and my husband. He was around 14. Now that he is older, he has done a complete 360. He said he want Bernie Sanders to win. He said everyone deserves to have basic healthcare. He understands that the dems are not trying to take guns away, they want sensible gun control. These are our future leaders. They are much more emotionally involved in politics then we give them credit for. My son has been able to sift through the crap on the internet and see our current president in action. He also told me that he probably won't have children because it's not fair bringing a child into this current world where the adults deny global warming. 3 years ago he didn't believe global warming existed. The young people are endorsing Bernie. Please do not count them out. They are tomorrows leaders. Our current state of politics has not represented them well.

[Evolve Dammit]

118. Well said. Thanks for sharing that. It's their future and we're running out of time to address

the big items (health care, climate crisis, gross income inequality, etc.). It's going to require a massive turnout and the younger gens have to step up. I think they will.

[thesquanderer]

111. Out of step with the Dem party and out of step with the Dem voters may be two different things, too.

[DoubleDeuce]

113. Clairvoyant

I am honestly a little tired of everyone stating with such confidence what WILL happen in a general election if Bernie is the nominee, or if Biden is the nominee, or if Warren or Pete are the nominees.......NONE of us KNOW what WILL happen. We KNOW what we THINK will happen, but none of us KNOW.
That is the secret to choosing a candidate. I am old enough(56)to remember in 1980 when everyone was salivating at a chance to run against Ronald Reagan......we got our wish, and got our asses handed to us. In the last election, there is no way Hillary should have lost to tRump, she is FAR smarter, FAR more "likable", and FAR better equipped based on experience and knowledge of government to handle the job of president. Again, got our asses handed to us.
I have been a student of and followed politics since I was a kid, I remember Humphrey and McGovern running against Nixon. I remember the racial dog whistles employed by George Wallace, the "southern strategy", the announcing of Reagan's run in Philadelphia, Mississippi.
Never underestimate the idiocy of the American electorate, they ALWAYS vote against their own self interest.........we have been programmed over the years to believe the line of bullshit we have been fed by the plutocrats and oligarchs that run this country. You must settle for baby steps, you must not rock the boat, the wealth will trickle down, we can't afford health care for all.......socialism will destroy the country(although, the postal service, road commission, police, fire departments and military have been going strong since this country has been a country). Socialism for the wealthy is alive and well in the form of subsidies for Walmart workers so the Walton's can become richer, tax havens for the rich, a cap on social security taxes, and lower taxes on capital gains than income earned through labor. The poor haven't had a raise in 50 years, all the while the wealthy are milking the system dry.
As George Carlin said, "There is a big club that runs this country, and you ain't in it"......none of us are. It's time we stop buying the line of bullshit we're being fed by our overlords and start voting for the things we want our government to do. If we keep negotiating with ourselves and settling for incrementalism, we will never see progress. FDR had one of the most successful presidency's in this country's history, the New Deal saved the country and was the most successful social movement the nation has EVER seen. It is the "good old days" the right wingers long for, they just fail to understand what brought them to fruition.
Stop being so goddamned scared of everything, strap a set on.......and vote for the person you believe will make the changes we want to see. Choosing another middle of the road candidate will just get us more of the same old middle of the road bullshit, nothing will change.
Everyone is afraid of another 4 years of tRump, but the last thing we need to do is run another mediocre candidate against him.....time to step up and make some changes. This is the opportunity we have been waiting for, time to turn this ship around.

[burrowowl]

134. This old fart likes your post!

[ehrnst]

218. "strap a set on...." Nice comment on what it takes to have any courage...

[DoubleDeuce]

238. I ain't scared

Got nothing to lose......time to do something different.
I love that the political establishment is FREAKING OUT, that's got to be a good sign.

[ehrnst]

239. Define "FREAKING OUT"

Now you've defined "strapping on a pair" as being the definition '"courage."

[DoubleDeuce]

241. Same old.....same old.

Just tired of seeing the 99% get the same small sliver of the pie while putting up with the lions share of the bullshit. I have been hearing don't rock the boat for 45 years. Pick a middle of the road candidate to be "safe", we get what we deserve.

[DoubleDeuce]

242. Reich

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/02/critics-of-sweeping-policy-changes-always-make-one-huge-mistake-robert-reich/

[ehrnst]

247. And?

[ehrnst]

244. What is it "that we deserve?"

[ehrnst]

246. Crickets....

Thought so.

[NRaleighLiberal]

114. So hard to say. DU has been around for... what?..20 years?

So many have left, died, changed, moved, arrived over those years. We've had bitter battles, many have left for other sites, new sites came and went.

People may change as they age, as life situations change. Now we have an increase in trolls and bots.

In 2000, GWB was the common enemy that led to this site. DU had moderators. So many variables..

Trump should be the common enemy, but 3 plus years are taking their toll, wearing many of us down.

So....DU is what it is. To me it in general has moved more to the right, but I've always been one of the most left members.

Just my two probably worthless cents!

[RazBerryBeret]

115. it appears that way...

in my opinion.
My party has a very popular candidate, based on the diversity and number of votes so far. That can change in a couple weeks. But presently I am hearing words like "almost out of time to stop him".... why are we stopping a popular candidate when it has been proven that popular candidates drive voters?

[zentrum]

116. Agree. Out of step.

[bitterross]

117. Bernie is not a Democrat. He clearly states he is "I" for Independent.

There are so many people who do not get this on DU. Who do not get the fact Bernie is a spoiler candidate. That he has declared his desire to burn down the Democratic party. That every post in favor of Bernie is a violation of TOS on DU. Let me just quote TOS:

Do not post support for Republicans or independent/third-party "spoiler" candidates.

Bernie is not a Democrat. He is, self-declared an independent/third-party candidate. There is I-VT by his name for a reason.

Bernie will be a disaster if he becomes the nominee. He will deliver four more years of Trump.

[BlueJac]

122. I think so too!

Vote democratic

[NJCher]

130. so interesting that

you have "bitter" in your screen name.

[ismnotwasm]

135. Why?

[bitterross]

138. Not at all interesting. I'm bitter for good reason

I own my screen name. It was chosen for good reason

[bitterross]

142. Now that you have tried to insult me..

Would you like to make a point?

[musette_sf]

165. + 1

[haydukelives]

120. I was thinking the same thing

I don't hang out here like I use to, seems DU is stuck in the past.

[HootieMcBoob]

121. When I first discovered DU after W

was elected and then finally joined way back in 2003 Bernie Sanders was a DU favorite. I do believe that overall the forum has become significantly more moderate. For example AOC received enormous criticism here for having the temerity to run as an unapologetic liberal against an entrenched moderate in the primary. I could be wrong but that is definitely my observation.

[cab67]

124. About this "young people go for Bernie" thing....

It's not that Sanders appeals to young voters as a whole. He appeals to college students and those not long out of college.

[joanbarnes]

129. So True Kentuck. I too favor Elizabeth, Bernie would have been great in 2016.

Let us follow the youth, they will inherit all our mistakes and do not repeat what happened when we were youth and could not get around Nixon, Reagan and their global destruction.

[pnwmom]

131. I think making any judgements about the direction of the party before Super Tuesday is nuts. n/t

[EarlG]

133. DU has never been in step

If Democrats nationwide has voted for the most popular candidate on DU, here’s who our nominees would have been over the years:

2004: Howard Dean
2008: Dennis Kucinich
2016: Bernie Sanders
2020: Elizabeth Warren

Obviously this race isn’t over yet, but the most popular candidate on DU at the start of the primaries has never become the nominee.

[ismnotwasm]

137. Hahahahaha.

Excellent.

[W_HAMILTON]

240. It says a lot that DU apparently skews much more progressive than the Democratic electorate...

...and the general election electorate, yet many of us here still do not support Sanders.

That does not bode well for the elections to come.

[krakfiend]

143. Yup

I'm voting for Warren, but if Sanders gets the nod, then so be it. I'll support him 100%. We can't let our fears of what we feel, cloud our minds. Then we are playing into the hands of the republicans.

[Tink41]

144. Early Gen Xer here.

I just viewed Van Jones commentary this morning on CNN You Tube, and they have it wrong. Soooo wrong. I've held this ideology since I was in 6th grade, been on the Bernie train since the last election, I did my duty and voted Democrat no matter who was the nominee. My father approaching mid 80's has been w Bernie for years.... He is a rabid fan. Speaking for myself this is how I view the Democratic party, that is what being a Democrat means to me. How and why and when it got sullied up by corporate interests.... I'm a Democrat because I believed they held the same ideals Bernie does. Don't discount us "old" people when it comes to the vote.

[Boomer]

148. Well said

I'm in my 60s, but your post mirrors my own thoughts.

[kydemo]

152. Winning a plurality of 3 states does not indicate being out of step

Bernie has the energy of a minority of democrats voters on his side and the majority of democratic voters are split. It is one thing to say Bernie and his followers are "in step" If the majority of democratic voters are endorsing him but when a.minority are producing that claim, then the logical answer is no.

I am despondent about his being the Democratic nominee when he won't even embrace the title of our party. With him it is not so much his ideas but the messenger.

[JCMach1]

149. Yes, DU is... The 2016 nomination battle

Caused quite a number of Sanders supporters to leave DU.

Sanders is almost a lock at this point.

I remember in 2016 informally polling my college students in Texas. That generational divide is real. The party is evolving and Sanders will be the nominee.

It really shouldn't be such a surprise. Previous cycle runners up (especially strong ones) tend to almost always be the frontrunner the next cycle.

Biden would have been a lock in 2016. I think that window has closed.

Fingers crossed for a Sanders-Abrams ticket

[Jirel]

153. Nah.

There are a ton of people scared to death of Bernie - or their own shadow, take your pick. Both sides will come across more intensely in a highly political space like this. Realize that a lot of people are just scared of anything new or passionate, and get on with life and organizing.

[totodeinhere]

168. Most definitely DU is out of step.

How many regular posters do we have at DU? Maybe a few thousand at most? And that's out of millions of Democrats. What is said and done at DU will have very little impact if any. It's a great place for us to vent, but that's about it.

[Kaleva]

170. Looking at the candidate preference percentages will tell you that DU is out of step.

Sanders and Bloomberg should be higher then they are while Warren should be lower.

[Happy Hoosier]

171. I'll try not to be insulting, but...

most voters, especially young voters are naive. And the simple fact remains.... young voters don;t turn out in sufficient numbers to really change an election in almost all cases.

And, course, I just think they naively believe the red scare tactics won;t work. But they will. And further, Bernie will not work well with the rest of the Democratic party, leading to losses in the house and failure to retake the Senate.

Some of us old farts have seen this movie before. We saw a preview, IMO, in the UK elections. We are going to get crushed.

[TreasonousBastard]

180. Well, it seems out of step with my County Democrats, which are...

the only ones I know much about.

At the committee meetings and get togethers we rarely talk about the primaries. Our attitude seems to be "to each his own" and we'll see as the primaries move along.

We are far more involved with the House race and a few state races-- Assembly and Senate suddenly have vacancies, and the county legislature is in flux.

Lotta work to do.

[SidDithers]

177. So far we've seen two caucuses and lily-white New Hampshire...

give the primary a few weeks and let's revisit the delegate count.

Sid

[BlueWI]

182. Can we stop erasing voters of color

in predominantly white states?

Iowa has a higher percentage of Latino voters than South Carolina.

And is there some reason why certain candidates are disadvantaged with white voters when every candidate is white? And wouldn't caucases disadvantage every candidate equally?

I'm sure that every candidate would have loved to win in "lily white" states and in caucas states too. Time for the other candidates to get off the dime and win some primaries, if they are truly prepared to win the presidency.

[SidDithers]

183. How many Latino voters voted in the Iowa caucus?...

Sid

[BlueWI]

186. NYT totals do not list a specific vote total for Latinos.

Non-white voters are listed as 9% of the electorate, and 38% of that vote went to Sanders, Biden 17%, Warren and Buttigieg, 11 and 12%. I believe that Latinos are the largest non-white population in Iowa due to the agriculture industry.

At both age ranges listed (18-44 and 45+), a higher percentage of non-white voters went for Sanders compared to white voters. While I don't think this pattern will be true of the Deep South, I would expect to see it on the West coast and in the Midwest.

[joshcryer]

223. From your lips...

[BlueWI]

181. Agreed 100%.

DU seems older than the overall Democratic base. I'm 56, and I have had other posters ask how old I am after hearing my views. If we were a younger community, I doubt that this happens.

Many, not all, DUers are also slow to rethink assumptions about the Democratic electorate. Our base is younger, more diverse racially, and more willing to advocate for structural change than in recent years. There is not as much sentimentality in the younger base for the Clintons, Kerry, or even for Biden or Obama as many DUers expect, and this is a source of contention sometimes and stereotyping of younger voters. And, the fact that 1972 is held up as a political lesson as opposed to 2016, 2008, 2004, or 2000 is also telling.

I hope that our national and state Democratic leaders are able to quickly let go of grudges and failed assumptions if Sanders wins, or if Biden wins for that matter. We will need to develop a winning strategy quickly that helps our chances in all races, state and national.

The challenges are many, and I hope we can adapt collectively to the new conditions and win this pivotal election!

[Tarc]

191. Very much so

[TexasBushwhacker]

193. DU skews older than the general electorate

Although we may not skew older than people actually voting. If the under 30 crowd, the African Americans and Latinos can show up to vote in the GE in unprecedented numbers, whe might have a chance. Without them, we're toast.

I'm also concerned that Bernie won't get to the magic 1991 delegates on the first ballot at the convention. On the second ballot, the super delegates get to vote and they are more moderate. If he doesn't get the nomination because of the super delegates, we are fucked.

[pizzaprincess]

194. DU fascinates me

Dated, failed, election strategy. But this place keeps arguing for it? I find it so fascinating.

Sanders gives us the greatest chance for the Obama effect. Playing it safe with Gore, Kerry and Hillary was just a losing strategy. That is what would happen with Biden. Obama was painted as a black radical socialist and I think that was part of his appeal. People wanted a progressive powerhouse. People then grew frustrated that he was a crypto centrist which allowed Republicans to take advantage.

Apathy is the biggest danger to the Democrats.

Why do the Republicans always get to run far right wing candidates while Democrats are expected to run uninspiring centrists? "Electability" only applies to Democrats? Do you see who our current president is? How was he "electable"? The Democrats shouldn't be chasing after the mythical center. The Republicans don't. Democrats should be chasing after their base that skips out on these elections because they feel as though they aren't being represented. If Democrats actually vote, we win. Focus on voter turn out not uninspired candidates only running on a platform of "not trump".

[TwilightZone]

195. "People wanted a progressive powerhouse."

Obama didn't run as a progressive. I'm not sure why this myth won't die, but it's simply false.

"In his primetime introduction to the American people, giving the nominating speech at the 2004 Democratic Convention, Obama drew the loudest applause when he proclaimed, “there's not a liberal America and a conservative America; there's the United States of America.”

Whole chapters in his post-Senate-election book “The Audacity of Hope” extol the virtues of centrism — condemning inflexible activists on the far right and far left for stopping progress and alienating Americans from the political process.

His first ad for president began by professing, “We are one people,” (an implicit dis to John Edwards’ “two Americas” riff) and then went on to establish his bipartisan bona fides, claiming that “In Illinois, he brought Republicans and Democrats together, cutting taxes for workers and winning health care for children,” followed by a testimonial from Republican state Sen. Kirk Dillard (a post-primary McCain delegate who’s since taken heat for the ad).

Obama’s primary stump speech was an attack on the partisan warfare that has paralyzed Washington — and he rose in part as the alternative to Hillary Rodham Clinton’s reputation for polarization. He won independent voters in open Democratic primaries by two to one, and had consistent wins among conservative red state Democrats outside of Appalachia. "

https://www.politico.com/story/2008/07/obamas-steady-centrism-011880

[ehrnst]

219. There were those who expected him to take the oath in a dashiki...

And I'm talking about people on the left.

They projected all their own ideas on him, assuming that a Black POTUS would certainly stick it to the man.

[ehrnst]

217. It's really fascinating the way get in a group insult, especially as a newbie.

Welcome to DU. How long have you been observing?

[Luciferous]

196. Everyone my daughter knows is excited about Bernie, and these are young people who vote.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

205. Good to hear!! GO BERNIE!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[CousinIT]

197. Young voters don't like to vote, have been brainwashed about Social Security

All their lives they've been told social security is "going broke" and that it's a "ponzi scheme". IF they even think about it at all.

All their lives they've been told worker unions are non-existent now because they're evil and bad but when they went, the middle class went with them. Pensions are unheard of. And healthcare...an afterthought since they don't need it much yet.

They may not fear Democratic socialism and they may despise Trump but even if they did all vote, they are still not a big enough majority for Sanders to win with piddly little other more moderate Dems voting for him, not voting at all, or writing in someone else.

I love that younger voters are not scared off by Democratic socialism and that they are not as religious as their parents. But they are not by themselves a large enough voting bloc (when they bother) to push Sanders to a win. I remember the YUGE rallies that Sanders had in 2016. WTF happened to all those people when it came time to vote? A lot of them just didn't. They loved the social media-generated rallies and wanted to tell all their friends they went, and got selfies to post. But they failed to do the most important thing: VOTE.

Are Democrats or DU "out of step" with the Democratic party?

Well, DU is more progressive than most Democrats. So are younger voters. But DU and younger voters combined - if every one of them voted - is likely not enough for a Sanders President. Why? Older voters, Hispanic voters, black voters who have different interests and opinions and who don't like "government run healthcare" and "socialism". Especially when the man doesn't even have a documented plan or an idea of what his programs will cost.

Younger voters are convinced (many of the) that Boomers are the reason they are not as well off as their parents. It's not true. REPUBLICANS are the reason they're not as financially well off as their parents were at their current age. Not sure they know that. I'm told a lot of them believe Boomers are to blame for their low-paying jobs, lack of benefits, college debt and that they won't get any social security because they're told it's "going broke". That is all from decades of REPUBLICANS ratfucking our economy, decimating our unions, education system, healthcare system, banking system, and Republican propaganda vomited all over Americans from Fox and Breitbart etc. Not Boomers.

I don't know who is out of step with who. I just know that 2020 is AMERICAS. LAST. CHANCE. to save itself as a Democratic Republic and people better learn to vote or kiss it goodbye.

[BeckyDem]

199. Bitterness, not policies, seems to be their way forward.

[wisteria]

208. The young should not be the only ones who count

Besides, this race was supposed to be about making Trump a one term President. This race was not supposed to be about resolving every possible Issue of concern. A new President will have a lot of Trumps handiwork to undo first.

[Duppers]

210. After the primary: Vote Blue No Matter Who.

That's my motto.

[Bonobo]

213. Given how popular he is vis a vis the other candidates, the answer is clearly "Yes"

We used to be MORE liberal than than the rest of the country, now we may be less so.

The same thing may happen again as did in 2016 -which is that 80% of this board was pro-Bernie. And when Hillary won the nomination, many people who had spit lots of poison in her eye were sort of pushed to leave (or chose to leave however you choose to interpret it).

I see the same thing happening when Bernie wins. All these people that HATE him will not know what to do with themselves and they will NOT BE ALLOWED to continue to talk shit. Maybe they'll form an anti-Bernie site. Many will, I think.

[JonLP24]

216. It is certainly out of step with younger Democrats who are progressive

You see a totally different picture on DU then you do on Twitter. According to entrance or exit polls Bernie Sanders won the vote of those who get their news from Twitter voters in Nevada. I wish they would all come to DU but they would probably get banned quickly.

[ehrnst]

222. That says a lot about what you think of DU...

Leads me to wonder why you post here.

But you have other options, yes?

[Steelrolled]

224. Depends on what you mean by the "Democratic Party"

Bernie implies the Democratic Party "establishment" is fighting him. In that sense, maybe the DU is perfectly in step.

[BigBearJohn]

225. Democratic strategist Andrew Feldman said Sanders' consistent messaging may help him on some measure

"Whether you like him or not, voters know where Bernie Sanders stands," Feldman said. "He talks about systemic problems in a way that is really simple to understand. He doesn't move off that messaging."

[samnsara]

226. I'm am not scared of bernie.. what scares me is what his divisiveness does to our country..

[Act_of_Reparation]

227. DU is a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the American population.

There are politically active adults. Of those there are Democrats. Of those there are engaged Democrats. Of those there is DU.

So, no. DU is not really a representative example of the Democratic electorate.

[lark]

230. My kids are 31 and 34 and they heartily dislike Bernie.

They are Biden and Warren fans respectively. They don't like Sanders one bit, either one of them, because they think he can't beat drumpf and is a crazy Socialist who no one will support expect college kids that don't usually vote.

I am worried about why is Russia helping him and what are they doing, other than praising him in RT, to help him? If they want Bernie so badly, there is a reason and it's not to elect him. Yes, if Bernie is the nominee, all 4 of us will vote for him, but I don't see him beating drumpf. I think the loss would be catastrophic and could even lose the House for us.

[IluvPitties]

233. I am a Millennial, and I am not for Bernie.

Proud moderate here.

[MarcA]

236. Yes, for the most part. n/t

[budkin]

237. I agree... is this because of 2016 and the feeling he sabotaged Hillary?

I feel like the level of dread is unwarranted.

[Gore1FL]

243. The great purge of a previous election skewed the politics of this site, to be sure.

Sadly, DU seems to be more of a moderate underground.