Gen. Barry McCaffrey on Joe Biden

[highplainsdem]

Two tweets today, the second in response to a question about the first:

Link to tweet

I have know Sen Joe Biden from years of association dealing with drug policy issues. Enormously experienced and principled political leader. One of the kindest most empathetic public officials imaginable. Complete integrity. Not a DIME TO HIS NAME. Gone.

Then, when he was asked, "What does that mean 'Not a dime to his name. Gone'? I don't think Trump spent a dime of his own money to get elected":

Link to tweet

When Sen Biden filed his annual Financial Disclosure Statement he was always the poorest Senator in Congress. An honest man.

[msongs]

1. joe biden net worth $900K says celebritynetworth dot com nt

[TwilightZone]

3. Not a valid source.

Their figures are often just darts thrown at a board and not based on any real information. They exist to sell ad space and generate clicks for their partner websites.

[Blue_true]

69. They are pretty accurate.

I have often cross referenced their against other sources, they are consistently on the money.

During his son's illness, we know the story about how Biden was going to sell his home to help his son's soon to be widow and how President Obama talked him out of that and offered help. Biden's actions are not those of a man flush with millions. My guess, Bernie is a lot richer than Biden, maybe that is one more reason why Bernie is sweating the release of his tax returns, that release will blow a lot of the narratives that he hopes to paint out of the water.

[TwilightZone]

74. Multiple celebrities have said their figures are wildly inaccurate.

And multiple sources have determined that their calculations are nonsense.

They famously claimed that 50 Cent was worth $150m+ shortly before he filed bankruptcy and had to pay creditors $23m to settle it.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

5. This is nothing.. for a former vp? With a home in Deleware?

[Blue_true]

70. Delaware is a moderate priced state.

When he was in the Senate, Biden commuted to and from work by rail, seems that was cheaper than owning a home in DC or renting in DC.

Everything about him says that he never took financial advantage of his offices, that causes me to respect him a lot.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

81. Yes. Agree. Was just responding to the post where

It sounded like they thought a $900k net worth was a lot. It isn't.

[Blue_true]

82. You are right. In some places $900k net is ok, but not wealthy. nt

[treestar]

86. He did that to go home to the kids every night

[Celerity]

9. April 2017, he and his wife signed a 3 book deal with Flatiron Books for an estimated $8 million.

https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/book-deals/article/73268-biden-books-go-to-flatiron.html

[George II]

14. Read their tax returns. Thanks!

[Celerity]

19. link please

[Honeycombe8]

20. That's not much for his state, and his age.

Net worth is tricky, though. You could have $1M a year in income, but have a lot of debt, so have a low net worth. Or you could have $500k in income, no debt, and have more net worth than a millionaire.

That's why Paul Ryan's net worth is so low. He's a very wealthy man and comes from a very wealthy family. But he must have a lot of debt. Huge mortgages that he has no problem paying, etc.

At that age, with a retirement account and a paid-off house, a lot of middle class people have a higher net worth.

[FakeNoose]

88. $900K - That's probably the value of his house

CelebrityNetWorth is not much better than asking your neighbor, how much does the guy down the street make? It's all guesswork, based on somebody else's guesswork. For the people listed in Forbes, maybe there's a little more substantive research. But even then Forbes has famously gotten it wrong, like when they listed Donald J. Trump as a billionaire just because he said so.

[Cha]

2. Thank you for this, highplainsdem..

I still don't know what General McCaffrey meant by "GONE"?

[BlueFlorida]

4. K&R nt

[Laura PourMeADrink]

6. So the term "gone" was never explained?

[yardwork]

7. Didn't Biden's son's cancer care cost a great deal of money?

I seem to remember that Biden spent his savings on his son's care. I seem to recall President Obama even helping to pay for Beau's care.

[highplainsdem]

8. CNN article:

https://www.cnn.com/2016/01/11/politics/joe-biden-barack-obama-financial-help/index.html

[pnwmom]

12. His son was a veteran. But Obama was concerned about whether the son's family

was going to be okay without his income.

[Cha]

16. That's right.. I forgot about that.

Thank You, yardwork

[pnwmom]

10. Well, he owns two houses, and one of them is lakefront.

So if he needs more dimes he could sell one of them.

[Cha]

11. No one said Joe Biden needed

"more dimes"

[pnwmom]

13. Gen. McGaffrey's tweet said Biden didn't have a dime to his name, which is not true.

He's done very well since leaving the government.

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/18/joe-biden-2020-money-wealth-1221934

“Middle-Class Joe” Biden has a $2.7 million vacation home. He charges more than $100,000 per speaking gig and has inked a book deal likely worth seven figures.

[highplainsdem]

17. McCaffrey's talking about Joe's time in the Senate and as VP. The Bidens owed more than they

Last edited Mon Apr 8, 2019, 01:07 AM - Edit history (1)

owned in 2017:

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/18/joe-biden-2020-money-wealth-1221934

First elected to the Senate in 1973, Biden was once one of the least wealthy members of the chamber. By the time he left the White House, he and his wife, Jill Biden, reported assets between $303,000 and $1 million, as well as liabilities between $560,000 and $1.2 million. During much of his time in office, Biden’s wife was a professor at Northern Virginia Community College, where she still teaches.

When Biden was vetted to be Obama's running mat in 2008e, Obama told him that was an easy vetting because he "owned nothing":

https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2017/11/joe-biden-book-assets

In Promise Me, Dad, Biden notes that when he was being vetted to be Barack Obama’s running mate in 2008, Obama ribbed him over his relative lack of assets. “The team investigating me pored over my finances to make sure I didn’t have any major conflicts,” he writes. “They examined my bank accounts, assets, mortgages, bills, and other debts. They wanted to see my tax returns going back 10 years, any outside business I may have had, and any stocks. There wasn’t much there. I had no business interests; I owned no stocks and bonds. We had the equity in our home and my pension. Jill had a teacher’s pension and some certificates of deposit her mother had given her. ‘This is all there is?’ Obama asked the team investigating me. The next time I saw him, after the process was concluded, Barack looked at me and joked, ‘That was one of the easiest vets in the world. You own nothing.’”

[Cha]

18. Mahalo for that, highplainsdem!

[pnwmom]

29. I'm not sure where you got the idea he owed more than he owned in 2017.

That was the year he bought his 2nd house on the beach (not the 1st house on the lake that he purchased in the 90's.) . I'm not sure the financial disclosure forms your article cited show personal homes, however. I looked at his and couldn't see any home listed.

Here is an article from the NY Times in 2008.


https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/02/us/politics/02finances.html?mtrref=www.google.com&gwh=99DCCFD1915CC776C657F25E2F21930C&gwt=pay

Mr. Biden certainly can trace his roots to the working-class neighborhoods of Scranton, Pa., and Claymont, Del., where he was raised. But these days, his kitchen table can be found in a 6,800-square-foot custom-built colonial-style house on four lakefront acres, a property worth close to $3 million.

Although he is among the least wealthy members of the millionaires club that is the United States Senate — he and his wife, Jill, a college professor, earn about $250,000 a year — Mr. Biden maintains a lifestyle that is more comfortable than the impression he may have given on the campaign trail. A review of his finances found that when it comes to some of his largest expenses, like the purchase and upkeep of his home and his use of Amtrak trains to get around, he has benefited from resources and relationships not available to average Americans.

As a secure incumbent who has rarely faced serious competition during 35 years in the Senate, Mr. Biden has been able to dip into his campaign treasury to spend thousands of dollars on home landscaping and some of his Amtrak travel between Wilmington, Del., where he lives, and Washington. And the acquisition of his waterfront property a decade ago involved wealthy businessmen and campaign supporters, some of them bankers with an interest in legislation before the Senate, who bought his old house for top dollar, sold him four acres at cost and lent him $500,000 to build his new home.

There is nothing to suggest Mr. Biden bent any rules in the sale, purchase and financing of his homes. Rather, he appears to have benefited at times from the simple fact of who he is: a United States senator, not just “Amtrak Joe,” the train-riding everyman that the Obama-Biden campaign has deployed to rally middle-class voters.

[highplainsdem]

32. Where I got the idea he owed more than he owned in 2017? The Politico article you cited

earlier:

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/18/joe-biden-2020-money-wealth-1221934

First elected to the Senate in 1973, Biden was once one of the least wealthy members of the chamber. By the time he left the White House, he and his wife, Jill Biden, reported assets between $303,000 and $1 million, as well as liabilities between $560,000 and $1.2 million. During much of his time in office, Biden’s wife was a professor at Northern Virginia Community College, where she still teaches.

That was his situation when he left office, as explained in the article you brought up. He left office in January 2017.

[pnwmom]

33. The fact that in 1973 he was one of the "least wealthy" members of the Senate

doesn't tell us anything about 2017. The members of the Senate, as a group, are quite wealthy, and 1973 was a long, long time ago. Biden has had time to build up his net worth in the subsequent 45 years.

Also, those forms don't have any place for showing the HOMES he's been living in (because they only list income producing property, such as a small rental he owned.). In 2008 the NY Times said his lakefront home was worth millions.

[highplainsdem]

35. Please read more carefully. The article didn't say Biden was one of the least wealthy senators only

the year he was first elected, 1973. He was one of the least wealthy senators all along.

A McClatchy article from 2008:

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/article9008426.html



CS Monitor, 2014:

https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/Decoder/2014/0623/Joe-Biden-Poor-for-a-D.C.-politico

The Bidens’ net worth, though, is in the red. Due largely to some outstanding mortgage debt, the figure here is between negative $336,804 and negative $2.3 million, according to calculations by Philip Bump at The Washington Post.

The Obamas, in contrast, have a net worth of $7 million. More to the point, the average member of Congress is now a millionaire.

In January, the Center for Responsive Politics published a comprehensive analysis of the finances of Senate and House members. The average member of Congress, they found, now has a net worth of $1,008,767.

For representatives, the average was about $900,000. For senators, it was close to $3 million.

[pnwmom]

36. But it's ridiculous to count only his mortgage DEBT and not the value of the underlying property,

which is what those articles do.

All these articles rely on data that shows income and debts, but NOT ASSETS. Go back and read the NYTimes article from 2008. His homes were worth far more than the mortgages.

But the value of the homes aren't shown on either the Financial Disclosure forms or the tax returns. They never are, until you sell them.

(But why are people so eager to argue that a couple making more than $400K a year had managed to save so little over decades? That would be a sign of mismanagement, really. They've made substantial salaries, they've never been out of work, never had to declare bankruptcy -- of course, in their seventies they've accumulated substantial assets.)

[jberryhill]

53. There's more than one house on what you are calling the "lakefront" property

It's more of a pond, than a lake.

There are three habitable structures associated with that property. There is a gatehouse on Barley Mill Road (where the Secret Service generally hangs out), and there is also another house on the property that he rents out.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7686196,-75.6097759,681m/data=!3m1!1e3

As far as the neighborhood in general....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenville,_Delaware

Greenville is a census-designated place (CDP) in New Castle County, Delaware, United States. The population was 2,326 at the 2010 census. The CDP is an affluent bedroom community and a suburb of Wilmington, Delaware. The community is also home to many Du Pont family descendants.

...

Greenville and Henlopen Acres are the two richest places in Delaware, all but tied for highest personal incomes, averaging over $80,000 per annum.

[pnwmom]

60. And the house is about 6800 sq. feet. Not exactly a cabin. n/t

[Bradshaw3]

51. It was an saying to make a point not to be taken as literal fact

That is obvious to anyone without an agenda. The Obamas and Clintons have done even better since leaving government. Something tells me you don't begrudge them, for some reason.

[pnwmom]

52. I don't begrudge either Biden or Sanders for the assets they've been able

to accumulate.

I just think it's not honest for followers of either one of them to pretend that they are practically penniless. (Or dime-less, as the case may be.)

And it's pointless, too, because if they really had no substantial assets at their ages, despite their book deals and good salaries over the years, there would be something wrong with their money management skills.

[Cha]

56. And, no one is "pretending" anything like that.

That's insulting.

[pnwmom]

58. Gen. McGaffrey's tweet in the OP said Biden didn't have a dime to his name. nt

[Cha]

59. Not to be taken literally. Biden's supporters

are not doing that, either.

[pnwmom]

61. Post #43 for example. It isn't true that Biden owes more than his assets are worth. n/t

[Bradshaw3]

63. Link to where followers claimed Biden or Sanders claimed them to be "practically penniless"?

Going to be hard to find I suspect because I doubt any follower ever made such claim. It's always ironic when posters make unsubstantiated claims about other posters. Hope you are not one of those. Especially with all the "claims" being made about Biden you woud think those posters would be extremely cuircumspect else they would lose credibility.

[pnwmom]

66. The OP's quoted tweet, for one thing. "NOT A DIME TO HIS NAME."

What the General and many here seem to misunderstand is that Senate Financial Disclosure statements only show INCOME PRODUCING PROPERTY. Not homes and second homes that you live in.

So Biden had significant assets by the time he became V.P. But he had more invested in his valuable personal real estate than in things like stocks.

Link to tweet

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1114987677055508481&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.democraticunderground.com%2F%3Fcom%3Dview_post%26forum%3D1287%26pid%3D59033

Link to tweet

And post # 43 said he had more debts than assets, which is false.That person probably also didn't understand that his real estate assets weren't included on his Senate Financial Disclosure Forms.

From 2008:

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/02/us/politics/02finances.html?mtrref=www.google.com&gwh=99DCCFD1915CC776C657F25E2F21930C&gwt=pay

Mr. Biden certainly can trace his roots to the working-class neighborhoods of Scranton, Pa., and Claymont, Del., where he was raised. But these days, his kitchen table can be found in a 6,800-square-foot custom-built colonial-style house on four lakefront acres, a property worth close to $3 million.

Although he is among the least wealthy members of the millionaires club that is the United States Senate — he and his wife, Jill, a college professor, earn about $250,000 a year — Mr. Biden maintains a lifestyle that is more comfortable than the impression he may have given on the campaign trail. A review of his finances found that when it comes to some of his largest expenses, like the purchase and upkeep of his home and his use of Amtrak trains to get around, he has benefited from resources and relationships not available to average Americans.

As a secure incumbent who has rarely faced serious competition during 35 years in the Senate, Mr. Biden has been able to dip into his campaign treasury to spend thousands of dollars on home landscaping and some of his Amtrak travel between Wilmington, Del., where he lives, and Washington. And the acquisition of his waterfront property a decade ago involved wealthy businessmen and campaign supporters, some of them bankers with an interest in legislation before the Senate, who bought his old house for top dollar, sold him four acres at cost and lent him $500,000 to build his new home.

There is nothing to suggest Mr. Biden bent any rules in the sale, purchase and financing of his homes. Rather, he appears to have benefited at times from the simple fact of who he is: a United States senator, not just “Amtrak Joe,” the train-riding everyman that the Obama-Biden campaign has deployed to rally middle-class voters.

[Bradshaw3]

67. Those aren't links backing up your claim of course

Which I didn't expect to be produced, either for him or Bernie. The "not a dime to his name" was NOT MEANT TO BE TAKEN LITERALLY. As said earlier, it isn't that hard to understand, unless one has an agenda of trying to destroy Biden by any means necessary. Like many pols Biden could have used to his public service to become very wealthy, as the Clintons have done. He has made some money but not anywhere what he could have. But that type of behavior only seems to be wrong in Biden's case, just as with this ridiculous attempt by some to turn him into a sexual predator over actions that are not in any way shap or form that.

[pnwmom]

68. Regardless of whether he meant it to be literally true or not, he said it to imply Biden

had less than he had.

The general was using hyperbole to imply Biden had very little in assets, which is false. People only think that because his Financial Disclosure forms are not designed to disclose a person's personal real estate holdings, even when they are as substantial as Biden's.

By the time he had finished his Senate career, his net worth worth was substantial, because of the smart investment he made in 1996 in the 4 acre waterfront property in Wilmington, with its 6800 square foot house.

By the time he ended his terms as VP, he was in a position to accumulate much more, and he has -- through his large book advance and through giving speeches.


From 2008:

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/02/us/politics/02finances.html?mtrref=www.google.com&gwh=99DCCFD1915CC776C657F25E2F21930C&gwt=pay

Mr. Biden certainly can trace his roots to the working-class neighborhoods of Scranton, Pa., and Claymont, Del., where he was raised. But these days, his kitchen table can be found in a 6,800-square-foot custom-built colonial-style house on four lakefront acres, a property worth close to $3 million.

Although he is among the least wealthy members of the millionaires club that is the United States Senate — he and his wife, Jill, a college professor, earn about $250,000 a year — Mr. Biden maintains a lifestyle that is more comfortable than the impression he may have given on the campaign trail. A review of his finances found that when it comes to some of his largest expenses, like the purchase and upkeep of his home and his use of Amtrak trains to get around, he has benefited from resources and relationships not available to average Americans.

As a secure incumbent who has rarely faced serious competition during 35 years in the Senate, Mr. Biden has been able to dip into his campaign treasury to spend thousands of dollars on home landscaping and some of his Amtrak travel between Wilmington, Del., where he lives, and Washington. And the acquisition of his waterfront property a decade ago involved wealthy businessmen and campaign supporters, some of them bankers with an interest in legislation before the Senate, who bought his old house for top dollar, sold him four acres at cost and lent him $500,000 to build his new home.

SNIP

He has long shouldered a heavy debt load; he obtained or refinanced mortgages 29 times since he was elected in 1972, and currently owes $730,000 on two mortgages on his home. In addition, he has had several personal loans, including one for up to $50,000 secured by the cash value of six life insurance policies.

[Bradshaw3]

79. All you're doing is trying to paint Biden in the worst possible light

Just as with the overblown "touching" campaign. Why I don't know. I have some I like and some not so much but I don't have an agenda against any Democratic candidate.

[pnwmom]

80. I disagree. Making it sound like he can't manage his finances

despite the combined income of over $400K that he and Jill had had for years, paints him in a much worse light. Why would we want a President that let money run through his fingers, instead of investing it wisely, like he has?

He is 76 years old and he has had a responsible, upper middle class job his whole life, and so has Jill. Since leaving government he made a million + book deal and he makes hundreds of thousands on speeches per year. So OF COURSE he's accumulated substantial assets. They've made some excellent investments in real estate. Good for them. It just doesn't show up on the Financial Disclosure forms for reporting income producing properties, so the poor Joe myth goes on.

[Cha]

71. Thank you!

[Cha]

57. Right.. "not to be taken as

literal fact"

[George II]

15. He doesn't own three, "and one of them is lakefront."

[pnwmom]

23. I didn't say he owned three. But one of his two houses is lakefront.

https://www.zillow.com/blog/joe-bidens-house-endures-the-media-swarm-5489/


And the other house is at the shore.

https://www.delmarvanow.com/story/news/2017/06/09/rehoboth-beach-area-braces-biden-family/385124001/

June 2017

Former Vice President Joe Biden, the longest-serving Delaware senator, and his wife, Jill, fulfilled a longtime dream by purchasing a vacation home at the Delaware seashore. Fittingly, their purchase is steps away from land Joe Biden helped return to federal status.

The Bidens will keep their primary home in Greenville, a spokeswoman told The News Journal.

[highplainsdem]

25. It's a beach house on the Delaware shore, not a lake house, but it isn't directly on the beach.

Walking distance.

https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2017/11/joe-biden-book-assets

As beach houses go, the Bidens’ place is lovely, but not necessarily what you might envision for the former holder of the second-highest office in the land. For one thing, it’s not on the beach. Though it is situated in a semi-private enclave of Rehoboth Beach, it sits on a small lot, cheek by jowl with his neighbors’ homes, and the Bidens, like nearly everyone else in their area, must walk or bike a short distance to reach the ocean, crossing a busy road to get there. The house projects prosperous dentist more than 47th vice president of the United States.

Again, this is from money Biden earned, mostly from a book deal, after leaving public office, after several decades of public service which had left him owing more than he owned.

McCaffrey's point is that Biden didn't use public office to enrich himself.

[pnwmom]

26. He also owns a house on a lake in Wilmington.

https://www.zillow.com/blog/joe-bidens-house-endures-the-media-swarm-5489/


https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/02/us/politics/02finances.html?mtrref=www.google.com&gwh=99DCCFD1915CC776C657F25E2F21930C&gwt=pay

Mr. Biden’s 6,800-square-foot colonial-style house sits on four lakefront acres that he bought in March 1996 for $350,000.

[treestar]

87. Lake in Wilmington?

Lived here most of my life; can't think of a Wilmington "lake."

[pnwmom]

89. It's identified as a "private lake" -- which means only owners have access.

There's an overhead photo at the second link (Zillow.)


https://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/local/2018/10/24/unknown-if-joe-biden-among-democrat-leaders-who-received-suspicious-packages/1749509002/

This is not the first time county officers have worked with federal agents at Biden's 7,000-square-foot custom home, which sits on a private lake several hundred yards from Barley Mill Road.

https://www.zillow.com/blog/joe-bidens-house-endures-the-media-swarm-5489/


https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/02/us/politics/02finances.html?mtrref=www.google.com&gwh=5E898004561FC2CE4538B0A1220607DB&gwt=pay

Mr. Biden certainly can trace his roots to the working-class neighborhoods of Scranton, Pa., and Claymont, Del., where he was raised. But these days, his kitchen table can be found in a 6,800-square-foot custom-built colonial-style house on four lakefront acres, a property worth close to $3 million.

[treestar]

93. Well I don't begrudge him that

He's not McCain with 12 houses or Romney with a multi-level garage.

[pnwmom]

96. Me, neither. I neither begrudge them their assets after a lifetime of hard work at public service,

nor will pretend that they haven't got a dime.

He's not in the same financial position he was in as a young Senator in the 70's, and he shouldn't be. Baby boomers with excellent jobs -- like he and his wife had -- prudent investments, good health and continuing employment should have amassed significant assets by now. If he were penniless it would seem to me that he'd mismanaged his money.

[George II]

39. I was hinting at another Senator.

[pnwmom]

41. Don't worry. I haven't forgotten about him and his stuff. Wonder when

we'll be seeing those tax returns?

[Honeycombe8]

21. Net worth is assets - debts. He has a lot of debt, probably.

But by his age, I would think that at least one of them is paid off. His wife has also worked for years. She's a professional, so I would imagine she made a good income.

But he doesn't have what most of the ones in Congress have.

[pnwmom]

24. He makes a lot from speeches and he got a big advance on his book.

And, as you say, his wife is a professional. I don't think he's short of money. McCaffrey was wrong.

[highplainsdem]

28. No, McCaffrey was NOT wrong. Please read the OP again. McCaffrey was talking about Biden not

enriching himself while a senator or while vice president. Biden owed more than he owned when he left office.

Making money from speeches and books after leaving office -- which the Obamas have done, which the Clintons did -- does NOT change the fact that Biden showed great integrity during his decades in the Senate and his years as VP.

[pnwmom]

31. Biden had substantial assets by 2008, so I don't know what happened to them

if he had nothing by 2017. Also, he was able to buy his second home near the beach that year, so he must have had some assets.


https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/02/us/politics/02finances.html?mtrref=www.google.com&gwh=99DCCFD1915CC776C657F25E2F21930C&gwt=pay

Mr. Biden certainly can trace his roots to the working-class neighborhoods of Scranton, Pa., and Claymont, Del., where he was raised. But these days, his kitchen table can be found in a 6,800-square-foot custom-built colonial-style house on four lakefront acres, a property worth close to $3 million.

Although he is among the least wealthy members of the millionaires club that is the United States Senate — he and his wife, Jill, a college professor, earn about $250,000 a year — Mr. Biden maintains a lifestyle that is more comfortable than the impression he may have given on the campaign trail. A review of his finances found that when it comes to some of his largest expenses, like the purchase and upkeep of his home and his use of Amtrak trains to get around, he has benefited from resources and relationships not available to average Americans.

As a secure incumbent who has rarely faced serious competition during 35 years in the Senate, Mr. Biden has been able to dip into his campaign treasury to spend thousands of dollars on home landscaping and some of his Amtrak travel between Wilmington, Del., where he lives, and Washington. And the acquisition of his waterfront property a decade ago involved wealthy businessmen and campaign supporters, some of them bankers with an interest in legislation before the Senate, who bought his old house for top dollar, sold him four acres at cost and lent him $500,000 to build his new home.

There is nothing to suggest Mr. Biden bent any rules in the sale, purchase and financing of his homes. Rather, he appears to have benefited at times from the simple fact of who he is: a United States senator, not just “Amtrak Joe,” the train-riding everyman that the Obama-Biden campaign has deployed to rally middle-class voters.

[highplainsdem]

34. If you'd read that 2008 article more carefully, you'd have seen he had substantial debts then,

including two mortgages on his home totaling nearly 3/4 million dollars.

And this was also just before the real estate market crashed, which would have slashed the value of his home.

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/02/us/politics/02finances.html?mtrref=www.google.com

At least by Senate standards, Mr. Biden does not have to try too hard to underscore his relative lack of wealth. He has long shouldered a heavy debt load; he obtained or refinanced mortgages 29 times since he was elected in 1972, and currently owes $730,000 on two mortgages on his home. In addition, he has had several personal loans, including one for up to $50,000 secured by the cash value of six life insurance policies.

Mr. Biden supplements his $165,000 Senate salary with a stipend from teaching a college course. His biggest boost came a few years ago, when he collected $225,000 in advances for his best-selling memoir. The Bidens have several checking accounts with less than $15,000 each, and Jill Biden’s retirement fund with between $15,000 to $50,000, according to their tax returns and Mr. Biden’s Senate financial disclosure reports. The couple reported virtually no investment income last year, and their largest asset by far was their home.

[pnwmom]

37. Real estate everywhere has bounced back up since that crash. As long as he didn't sell,

he's doing well. Waterfront and beach properties are among the most sought after, and he's got a 6,800 square foot home on a 4 acre lakefront property that had (10 years ago) a $730K mortgage. Sounds like he made a smart investment to me.

Zillow just guesses, but their guess is that his lakefront home is worth more than 1.9 million. So he has a substantial asset, even if his $730K mortgage hasn't gone down a dollar in 10 years (which is unlikely).

1209 Barley Mill Rd
Wilmington, DE 19807

https://www.zillow.com/homes/1209-Barley-Mill-Road,-Wilmington,-Delaware_rb/


And later, in 2017, he also bought the beach property.

[Honeycombe8]

43. Well, if you owe almost as much as what you own, that's not as good as most in congress.

He might have been broke back in the day, because of certain debts or expenses.

His net worth is really not much at all. Many middle class people his age have a net worth higher than that (paid off house + retirement account + SS income, with no debt).

You can't go by net worth that much, except to show if yu have too much debt for your income level.

[pnwmom]

45. Just one of his houses, the one on the lake, had a 730K mortgage ten years ago,

according to a DUer who posted something about it here, and Zillow guesses it's worth 1.9 million.

Then there's his other house, the one he bought in 2017, in part with his advance on his book -- that's the one at the seashore.

But I don't know why people here think it makes him look good to minimize his net worth. He's 76 years old and he and his wife have been making more than $400K a year. Plus there's the book advance. Plus his $200K per speech (he even took that much for speaking at a rally for Rep. Upton last year).

If he hadn't been able to accumulate substantial assets by now, it would be gross mismanagement. Not something you'd want to see in a President.

[Honeycombe8]

46. I think if someone was not long ago a member of the middle class, it helps....

It helps them relate to what Trump calls "the common people." Biden rode the rail/subway to work for many years, alongside his constituents. Can you imagine Trump doing that?

The President inevitably gets sucked into a bubble. So it helps to have someone who recently lived in the real world.

His assets aren't substantial, compared to other Congressional members in his age bracket. Bernie has two houses, too.

If an older Congressman wanted to monetize his time in Congress, that's easy enough to do. If you're not filthy rich by age 70, then you had other goals. And that's a good thing. Not that there's anything wrong with money or assets. We all want that.

[jberryhill]

54. There's more than one house on that property

Just FYI... calling that a "lake" is generous. But there's more than one house on the property.

[pnwmom]

62. It looks like a solid investment to me, with a rental and everything.

Whether it's a lake or a pond, a 6800 sq. foot house is substantial.

[Control-Z]

84. I don't understand your push against an obviously correct statement about Joe's

life over all the years of service to his country.

If the man actually had a prosperous year or two after all his years of service and a lifetime of personal tragedy and pain why would that be disqualifying, considered negative, or make McCaffrey's statement invalid?

[pnwmom]

85. I DON'T think Biden's having assets, which were already substantial by the time

he became VP (primarily the 6800 sq. foot house on 4 acres of waterfront), are disqualifying or negative. At his age, with their combined incomes over the years, it just means he was a prudent investor. You wouldn't want a President who couldn't manage to save something on hundreds of thousands a year. Would you?

I do think McCaffrey's statement about Biden not having a dime was nonsense.

[Control-Z]

94. My mistake.

I misunderstood your position. In fact, I found the OP a bit confusing, to be honest.

Are we ok on this?

[pnwmom]

95. Thank you for understanding.

I don't think we're doing Biden any favors by acting as if he's "dimeless" at his age, despite their two professional incomes, and their ability to manage their assets intelligently.

Lots of young people are up against huge financial obstacles these days. But people among the baby boomers and older, who were consistently employed at very good jobs (like Biden) and who never had to go bankrupt (he didn't), should have managed to save some substantial assets.

I believe he was among the "poorest" Senators when he entered the Senate, but that was way back in the 70's. He's had 50 years to develop a significant net worth, and he has. Good for him.

[Honeycombe8]

22. Gone? Does he mean that Biden isn't going to enter the race? nt

[Hoyt]

27. He'll get his gov't salary for life, but he hasn't accumulated millions like

some in government. That’s a good thing in my mind.

[Honeycombe8]

44. He's middle class. That's a good thing. nt

[Cha]

30. "I have know Sen Joe Biden from years of association dealing with drug policy issues. Enormously..

experienced and principled political leader. One of the kindest most empathetic public officials imaginable. Complete integrity."

Thank you, General McCaffrey

I don't care how much money he has or doesn't have..

He has no problem releasing his tax returns..

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2016/04/15/president-obama-and-vice-president-bidens-2015-tax-returns

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2012/04/Thrilling-Tax-Returns-News-The-Obama-and-Biden-Tax-Returns-are-Here

[LakeArenal]

78. No shit. This is about integrity, principles, empathy

How did it devolve to he has or hasn’t and what year he had it?

Anyway you slice it, parse it or guess it, he’s a millionaire compared to me.

Despite what he has, Joe Biden remains the most qualified globally and nationally and at the moment, the most popular.

[onetexan]

38. I agree with Gen Mccraffrey

[George II]

40. As of 2014 (old data) Opensecrets has Biden's net worth at -947,000. This includes...

...the value of debt that he owes. In 2014 he bought property with a $1M mortgage.

https://www.opensecrets.org/personal-finances/net-worth?cid=N00001669

In 2015, Sanders' net worth was $712,000

https://www.opensecrets.org/personal-finances/net-worth?cid=N00000528&year=2015

In 2014 Obama's net worth was 3,600,000

https://www.opensecrets.org/personal-finances/net-worth?cid=N00009638&year=2014

[MineralMan]

42. Cool. He's not a 1%er.

I don't see a problem with that at all. Go Joe!

[Hekate]

47. I don't know what real estate is like in Delaware, but in my area a house would account for ....

Last edited Mon Apr 8, 2019, 02:08 PM - Edit history (1)

...the majority of that. It should be paid off at his age, unless he did a re-fi to help his dying son's family, or even to help buy that vacation home.

I never quite understand the beef people have with "lakefront property" and the like -- unless your family is the Kennedys or the Bushes, who have sprawling family compounds, a vacation home can be fairly modest.

Also, I do hope that people who adore Bernie's financially modest lifestyle have a few kind thoughts to spare for the Bidens.

As for the "book deal," hallelujah they just hit the jackpot. They can pay off the house and help the grandkids with college. If you hold a high office a book deal is almost a requirement when you leave, and he toiled in public service his whole life and lived off his and his wife's salaries. No trust funds, no insider trading, no quitting politics to become a lobbyist.

[Scurrilous]

48. K&R

[melman]

49. Is that good?

To be endorsed by Barry McCaffrey? I mean, is that a sought-after endorsement? I can't imagine why it would be.

[doompatrol39]

55. There are still a sizable amount of Dems...

....who still buy in to the Republican Daddy syndrome and McCaffrey is a hero to that crowd, so....

[Cha]

64. Oh really? Is that how you explain it away?.. "repub

daddy syndrome".

[Blue_true]

72. MCCaffrey is a pretty respected ex military person. nt

[melman]

73. Respected by whom?

[Blue_true]

75. Lots of democrats. I have generally found him to be fairly balanced.

And I am certainly left of center.

[melman]

76. "Lots of Democrats"

How do you know this? Seriously, not trying to be difficult or 'sea lion', but how do you know he's so respected?

I remember him being a big cheerleader in the lead up to Iraq. Personally, I can't respect a person like that

[Blue_true]

77. He has also said that how that war was done and the reason (once it was known) for going there were

wrong. I have watched democrats react to him, the reaction certainly in not hostile. As I stated, for the former high ranking military person that he is, I have found him to be balanced on his assessments of military issues. Bush lied to many people about the reasons for going into Iraq, including all of Congress.

[Cha]

50. Biden holds large lead in South Carolina

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=59473

[Gothmog]

65. Early State Democrats Stand With Biden As Touching Scandal Falls Flat

Link to tweet

Progressives and advisers to Bernie Sanders hoped that they could keep Biden out of the race with a scandal that centers around personal space. The scandal though never really dominated the news like they hoped it or accelerated enough to damage the former vice president’s potential candidacy. Biden is still leading in the way too early polling, and he has seen no erosion in his support since the touching scandal started.

The challenge that any Democratic candidate faces is that Joe Biden has deep roots and a huge national organization of party officials. Biden is beloved by the party rank and file, and it is going to take more than what his political adversaries tried to turn into a scandal to stop his candidacy.

After seeing the behavior of porn star paying off, Access Hollywood tape accused sexual assaulter Trump, Joe Biden’s behavior doesn’t rise to the level of disqualifying in the minds of many Democrats.

Democratic voters may choose a different nominee, but Joe Biden is showing why he is going to be hard to beat in 2020.

[Go Vols]

83. Drug War Propagandist Barry McCaffrey Calls Washington State Officials "Intimidated, Irresponsible,

As Pres. Bill Clinton's second-term drug czar from 1996-2001, McCaffrey denied that AIDs and cancer patients could receive any relief whatsoever from marijuana, and tried to ruin the lives of doctors who so much as spoke about the drug with their dying patients. He treated ONDCP staffers so poorly that two-thirds of them quit. He lied frequently and obviously. He ended his tenure by secretly paying TV networks to insert anti-drug messages in their shows. What he did after leaving the ONDCP was also pretty nasty: took money from military contractors in exchange for promoting their interests in Iraq on network television (without disclosure, of course).

https://reason.com/blog/2013/02/01/drug-war-propagandist-barry-mccaffrey-ca


Barry McCaffrey is a sorry human being,wouldn't want his name associated with mine.

[Gothmog]

90. This so-called scandal/hit job failed

Link to tweet

One almost sensed from the breathless coverage of women who decided years later to object to former vice president Joe Biden’s non-sexual hugs and pats and kisses on the head that they expected the media to think it would be a fatal or near-fatal blow to Biden’s presidential chances. Not only was it not fatal, it didn’t register as particularly relevant to most Democratic voters. He was atop the polls before these stories aired, and he is atop them now.

Biden has been in the public eye since the 1970s, and unlike Hillary Clinton, who claimed the public never really knew her, voters feel like they know Biden pretty darn well. Many voters don’t remember anything before his vice presidency, his demonstrably warm relationship with President Barack Obama, his remarkable dignity after the death of his beloved son Beau, and his emotional goodbye to the late senator John McCain. He has established a level of emotional intimacy with voters that few politicians attain. He’s the chatty next-door neighbor, the avuncular relative and the co-worker who remembers everyone’s birthday.

[melman]

91. Jennifer Rubin

is a right winger.

[Gothmog]

92. So the polling cited is wrong?