So far, I've read all the following Sanders arguments here:

[brooklynite]

Bernie isn't really a socialist.

Other good people were also socialists.

Democrats today like socialism so you should too.

If you don't like socialism you're insensitive to the needs of the poor.

I would suggest that, when you're going through this much effort, you're losing the argument.

[TwilightZone]

1. Especially after five years of the same arguments.

And essentially zero progress.

[ripcord]

3. And yet people still want Bernie, imgaine that.

[brooklynite]

7. Fewer people want Bernie than they did in 2016

Imagine that.

[LiberalFighter]

22. There is one major reason that Bernie even has the support he has now.

Social media. If Facebook and Twitter had never existed he would be walking thru the halls of Congress like a ghost. Maybe be retired by now.

[totodeinhere]

40. That's only because there are so many more candidates in the race this time.

There is a different dynamic this time and continued comparisons to the 2016 race are not valid IMO.

[TwilightZone]

9. And, yet, after five years of Bernie, polls on socialism are no better than they were then.

24% of *Democrats* won't vote for a socialist for president and 55% of independents.

So, the message clearly isn't getting through, even after five years.

We need nearly all Dems, plus most left-leaning independents, plus excellent turnout, to beat Trump.

https://www.newsweek.com/76-percent-democrats-say-theyd-vote-socialist-president-new-poll-shows-1486732

[Demsrule86]

10. Not a majority and that is with operation chaos.

[DanTex]

2. Democratic socialism. That answers all your questions. You're welcome.

[LanternWaste]

4. Your was merely a reponse

All answers are responses. Not all responses are answers.

Your was merely a reponse, regardless of the petulant irrelevance of any alleged welcomes.

[George II]

12. .

[comradebillyboy]

46. How is 'democratic socialism' any different from old fashioned

socialism? Paved roads, public schools and basic social services really aren't socialism you know. And FDR wasn't a socialist either.

[awesomerwb1]

5. Don't forget the

Castro wasn't bad. Cuba under Castro = model to be followed.

[OliverQ]

23. Bernie never said Castro wasn't bad.

He denounced the regime in his first sentence on the top.

[NurseJackie]

26. Bernie Sanders once said that he was "physically nauseated" by a speech made by Kennedy

Yeah... his feelings are pretty clear. There's really not enough lipstick in the world that can make this "pretty".

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ilanbenmeir/bernie-sanders-despised-democrats-in-1980s-said-a-jfk-speech

Vermont senator and Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders once said that he was "physically nauseated" by a speech made by President John F. Kennedy when Sanders was a young man, because Kennedy's "hatred for the Cuban Revolution [...] was so strong."

"Kennedy was young and appealing and ostensibly liberal," Sanders reminisced in a 1987 interview with The Gadfly, a student newspaper at the University of Vermont. "But I think at that point, seeing through Kennedy, and what liberalism was, was probably a significant step for me to understand that conventional politics or liberalism was not what was relevant."

[NurseJackie]

30. Here's the actual news clipping:

President Kennedy was elected while I was at the University of Chicago, that was 1960. I remember being physically nauseated at his speech and that doesn't happen very often. He debated Nixon on Cuba. And their hated for the Cuban Revolution, both of them, was so strong. Kennedy was young and appealing and ostensibly liberal, but I think at that point, seeing Kennedy, and what liberalism was, was probably a significant step for me to understand that the conventional politics or liberalism was not was relevant.

Why would Kennedy's opposition-to and "hatred for the Cuban Revolution" elicit such a response from Bernie? That sure sounds like the reaction that someone would have if they have a certain "fondness" or respect or admiration for the Cuban Revolution.

It's pretty clear what he's saying and what he's getting at there. He even repeats it for emphasis at the end.

[TwilightZone]

11. Democratic socialism and social democracy aren't the same thing.

Therein lies the problem. If Democrats who've been exposed to Sanders for the past five years still don't understand that the terms are not interchangeable, how exactly should we expect the average voter to get it? They're nothing alike.

The real problem is that Sanders saddled himself with an inaccurate label decades ago and has no idea how to get rid of it. In the meantime, he has to now try to convince people that regulated capitalism is socialism. It isn't, but he has to hope that people will somehow believe it.

He's been trying for five years and people still don't get it. The fact that we're still having these conversations after five years means that the message isn't getting through.

[empedocles]

13. Real world helping trump is somewhat hard to comprehend

[FDR won as a moderate, pragmatist - despite what some here want to believe. Same with LBJ, who also accomplished so much].

[OliverQ]

24. It is for most people here.

[awesomerwb1]

39. Cool story bro

[ehrnst]

44. No, he's not a registered Democrat, he's just running on the ticket.

He serves and votes as an Independent. He is only a Democrat during times he is on the primary campaign trail

Call his office if you don't believe me.

[Kurt V.]

8. i wouldn't expect ppl to be mute on the subject. Would you?

[Squinch]

14. Also: "He's not a socialist! He's a democratic socialist! There's a big difference!"

Campaign slogan: "Do you have 15 minutes? Sit and I'll instruct you on how socialism and democratic socialism are different."

Because that would work.

[TwilightZone]

17. They've been trying for five years with zero success.

So, we already know how well it's going to work. That doesn't stop them from trying.

[greatauntoftriplets]

36. And it'd fit great on a bumpersticker!

[frazzled]

15. You forgot one

That he would be the best to beat Trump. That's debatable: any or all of the candidates might win or lose against Trump. (One would think the proverbial ham sandwich could beat Trump, but we live in unusual times.)

The real question for me has become not who could beat Trump, but who would make a good president. I don't think Bernie Sanders would make a good president, and that is based on his record of failing to work well with others in Congress, with his all-or-nothing approach to issues, his temperament and demeanor, and the advisors and people with whom he has surrounded himself in the campaign.

So I am no longer looking for who can beat Trump as the metric for my vote choice. I'm looking for whom I think would make the best president among those I think are in the position to overcome the one I think would make the worst president. That's a toughie, because it depends on what everyone else thinks who votes before me.

[LiberalFighter]

34. From govtrack

Got 1 bill out of committee and to the floor in 2019. Ranked last compared to Senator Menendez with 45.

Wrote 1 bipartisan bill. Ranked last compared to Senator Menendez with 71.

Got the 11th fewest cosponsors from other side on their bills with 1 out of 23 bills and resolutions. Senator Menndez got 71 of his 106 bills and resolutions sponsored from the other side.

That was for 2019

In 2018,

1 bill out of committee and on the floor.
1 out of 31 bills and resolutions with a bipartisan cosponsor.
Introduced 0 bills that became law.

He does seem to have a difficult time getting along with others.

[LisaM]

52. I agree that Sanders chooses bad people (and apparently puts no restraints on them).

It's one of his major disqualifications, along with what seems to be open disdain for the Democratic party he wants to head.

I think most of us here agree with Sanders on most issues (other than a few spotty things like guns), though there is clear disagreement on how to achieve shared goals.

But the people he keeps around him should give a lot of people pause.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

56. That point needs to be shouted from the rafters. ...

Picking the right people for a job is an extremely important part of being president. See current occupant of the White House, for example.

[LisaM]

57. That's why Biden doesn't worry me. Is he my favorite? No.

But I have no qualms about his choosing great people to be around him. As my boyfriend says, yes, he'd be Chairman of the Board, but at this point, that's fine. I know I'm mixing metaphors, but I think he could at least steady the ship.

I do say this about Bernie Sanders every chance I get, but it doesn't seem to get traction. It's not his goals that we disagree with; we share most of them. But I question his judgement on advisors.

[Tom Rinaldo]

16. And I might suggest the contrary

I might suggest that feeling an incessant need to repeatedly warn that Bernie is a "Socialist" during the midst of his second high profile run for President, as if Bernie describing himself as a "Democratic Socialist" comes as a startling new revelation, means you have lost that argument already with an electorate that views him more favorably than the other candidates

It increasingly comes off as the desperation of a "Stop Bernie" movement among those who were accustomed to controlling the Democratic Party and its voters.

Now the truth could lie somewhere in between, but the picture you paint is lacking in key details.

[TwilightZone]

18. He saddled himself with the label decades ago.

It is, to use soccer/football parlance, an own goal, and blaming others for his inability to get his interpretation of the term across after five years of trying is misguided.

It isn't the fault of anyone other than Sanders and his camp. He saddled himself with an inaccurate label decades ago and now has to explain to people that what he really supports isn't socialism in whatever form, but regulated capitalism, but under the guise of democratic socialism.

The "democratic" part is a recent addition. It doesn't change the noun in the phrase and the noun is going to get all the press, guaranteed. If he hasn't been able to explain the difference in five years, it ain't happening.

[PETRUS]

19. My reaction was similar.

The OP writes "when you're going through this much effort, you're losing the argument." The Sanders/socialism critics are expending a whole lot of effort.

[brooklynite]

20. You might have a point if things like this didn't happen...

Link to tweet

[OliverQ]

41. Lindy Li

is actively conspiring to bring down Bernie. She was kicked out of her political group for posting doctored videos of Bernie related to the Soviet Union.

[brooklynite]

43. Are you saying that the video is factually not true?

1:02

[beachbumbob]

21. I would add:

- yelling loudly about issues is not legislating NOR building collaborative efforts
- putting out nothing but free stuff doesn't outweigh how are they all paid for
- vilifying success doesn't help
- creating a sense of "not getting your way", you will take your ball home didn't help democrats in 2016
- accusing those who don't agree as being almost the same as republicans does no good

[wyldwolf]

27. "creating a sense of "not getting your way", you will take your ball home didn't help democrats..."

"... in 2016."

Nor in 1968, 1972, 1980, and 2000.

[wyldwolf]

25. They have only few months to change people's minds.

Being insulting and posting laugh emojis and memes to anyone who disagrees with them (which is most voters) isn't the way to change minds.

[MontanaMama]

28. I was going to post the same thing.

LOTS of that going on here...I’ve put a handful of the most obnoxious on ignore.

[wyldwolf]

32. There seems to be a lot of low post-count Bernie supporters among us...

... nothing inherently wrong with that... but it does seem to be coordinated.

[rzemanfl]

38. No shit. n/t

[awesomerwb1]

42. Of course it's coordinated

The articles from shady websites, or others like the intercept, common dreams, there was another one from this morning, certain Politico writers.

And you could probably guess who some of those coordinators are as well.

[MontanaMama]

45. Agree 100%

It’s good to be aware.

[peggysue2]

47. Ya think???

Yes, the chaos makers are among us. No doubt.

[SDANation]

31. My issue with Bernie

recently is that he is saying we are going to tax a large section of the middle class to achieve his goals. I don’t know why but it puts a really bad taste in my mouth when he states billionaires shouldn’t exist? I’m all for a progressive tax code that taxes the 1% heavily but to say they shouldn’t exist, is the opposite of capitalism. I mean I’m sure if some politician told him, “hey, individuals can only have 1 house and top 1 million in net worth!” Bernie would be like sure, take my other 2 houses.

[HarlanPepper]

35. The tax increases on the working class and middle class will doom him in a general.

Nobody will hear anything past the “raise taxes” part.

[SDANation]

37. Exactly

[brush]

54. Agreed. And Sanders used to constantly rail against millionaires and billionaires, now that he's a..

millionaire he's suddenly only against billionaires.

What's up with that?

Is that just a whiff of hypocrisy, or a full, two-nostril blast?

[Act_of_Reparation]

33. What an odd thing to say.

[melman]

48. It really is

[Bluepinky]

49. I would call Bernie more of a Democratic Progressive.

Wish he had used that term instead.

[TrumpCrimeWatch]

50. Those statements remind me of the pro-Bernie subreddit "Sanders for President" from 2016.

N/t

[mcar]

51. It sounds familiar. Where have I heard that manner of "reasoning" before?

[LanternWaste]

53. I get it... putting effort into critical thought is a waste of time to you.

It seems... consistent.

[ehrnst]

55. Indeed. (nt)