last time and prior times superdelegate votes counted on first vote.

[boston bean]

The rules were changed cause Bernie and the justice party didn’t want super delegates choosing the nominee on the first vote.

So, he agreed that they would vote on the second.

Some say Bernie wants no superdelegates. Well, too bad. He agreed to it.

He already got half of what he wanted. Now wants to have different rules.

Too bad Bernie et al.

I always thought having them on the second afforded them even more power and didn’t agree with the change. But I gotta live with the rules.

[DanTex]

1. Bernie and other pro-democracy people wanted no superdelegates at all.

Bernie didn't write any of the rules, the DNC did. You're right in saying "too bad", it is too bad. I have no idea why anyone would be in favor of unelected superdelegates. But they exist, for some reason.

The real question isn't what the rules are, but how the delegates will carry out those rules. They can go with the democratic will of the electorate. Or, they can choose someone with less votes but who party insiders want.

And in the interest of preserving the party unity needed to defeat Trump, it would be advisable to go with the democratic will of the electorate.

[boston bean]

2. The democratic will is those with a majority of delegates. Including superdelegates.

Thank you very much.

He doesn’t just skate in with 28%. Sorry.

[DanTex]

3. The candidate with the most votes/delegates obviously represents the democratic will.

Please, make an argument as to why someone with 20% of the votes is a better expression of the democratic will than someone with 30%. I'd love to hear it.

[honest.abe]

12. Its not just the most votes, its the majority of the votes.. which may not happen this year.

So Im not entirely sure how a brokered convention works but I think this is how it will go down. After the first round of voting and no one gets the majority, delegates from candidates who have no chance to win, can then switch their votes to a candidate they think can win. In addition the super delegates will also add their votes which could help attain a majority if the elected delegates do not get there. They will keep voting until one candidate has the majority.

So in the end the "majority" vote candidate wins which may or may not be the original candidate with the most votes from the primary.

If I have that correct, it all sounds reasonable and fair to me whoever wins.

[DanTex]

13. Yes, those are the rules. If there's no majority, the delegates including supers decide.

That doesn't necessarily mean there will be an anti-democratic outcome. The delegates could respect the will of the voters, and go with the candidate who has the most votes. But they could also ignore the will of the voters, and choose someone who got less votes.

[honest.abe]

15. Depends on how one interprets the "will of the people".

One could argue that most voters don't want Sanders but the vote is split among the non-Bernie candidates.. Biden, Bloomberg, etc. Also if Biden wins big in the final states and/or key battleground states that could be seen as momentum into the general against Trump. Supers might take that into consideration, which I think most Democrats would think is legit and in fact smart.

[jimfields33]

4. Why bother having a primary

When a group of people pick the nominee anyway.

[TwilightZone]

6. Why bother having a convention if you're just going to ignore the rules anyway?

Primaries are about building coalitions and consensus. If one candidate chooses to burn bridges instead of building coalitions, that candidate shouldn't be surprised if that becomes an issue later on.

[jimfields33]

8. It's seems like all but one is doing extremely poor

Biden has 15 delegates. Lol. So maybe is needs to figure out a coalition.

[boston bean]

9. Yes. Let's build coalitions. If he doesn't have 50+

All delegates will decide.

Yes they could decide different. But I doubt it.

If he as 28% he does not just get the nomination.

[TwilightZone]

5. "they can choose someone with less votes "

If 70% of the electorate chooses delegates who then shift to just one of those candidates, that candidate then represents those 70%. That's how representative democracy works. That 70% doesn't actually matter, but for the sake of your argument, the delegates that that candidate would have now represent that 70%.

That's called a majority (both in delegates and in votes, for sake of your irrelevant votes-matter argument) and is not, by the very definition of a majority, "someone with less (fewer) votes".

Because math.

[DanTex]

7. Well, it depends on who those delegates shift to.

Like I said, if they shift to the person who actually got the most votes, and who leads every other candidate in head-to-head polling, and who has the highest favorability ratings among Dems, and who the most Dems say they would be happy with as the nominee, then yes.

If they decide to pick someone with less votes, lower approval, who would lose in a head-to-head matchup, and who less Democrats would be satisfied with as nominee, it's pretty hard to argue that those delegates are respecting the voters. Because it obviously isn't.

And that would be a problem for unifying the party to defeat Trump

[LanternWaste]

10. just a book or two would really help you out.

"I have no idea why anyone would be in favor of unelected superdelegates. But they exist, for some reason..."

just one or two academic books on history or political theory could really help you out. As a primer, here's some pretty basic stuff directly addressing your query (this is on the presumption your curiosity is sincere rather than simply another allegation).

Campaigning in America, by Robert J. Dinkin
Congress: The Electoral Connection, David R. Mayhew




Hope that helps your alleged confusion!

[DanTex]

11. LOL.

[JudyM]

14. The issue is with Warren and some here *falsely* claiming he wanted superdelegates before

and has changed his mind. No. Not true. Do you disagree?

People should win or lose based on actual facts. Dishonesty sucks.

[MineralMan]

16. Since Bernie Sanders is only a Democrat when he must be one,

he thinks the rules the party has developed over the years shouldn't apply to him.

Sorry, Bernie. It doesn't work that way. Now, if you had always been a Democrat, you'd have been part of the party that developed those rules. But, you weren't so you didn't get to do that.

The party let you push them into having superdelegates not vote until the second ballot. But on the second ballot, they will, indeed vote, if there is one. And if there is one, that means you didn't get a majority of delegates in the primaries. The Democratic Party chooses everything based on a majority vote. You will have to live with that, I'm afraid.