BERNIE SANDERS SAYS U.S. CAN'T HAVE 'OPEN BORDERS' BECAUSE POOR PEOPLE WILL COME 'FROM

[Uncle Joe]

ALL OVER THE WORLD'

(snip)

Trump has routinely lashed out at opponents and critics to his left by accusing them inaccurately of supporting open borders, claiming they are allowing “criminals” and “terrorists” to enter the U.S. undeterred. Democratic leaders have pushed back, pointing out that they support secure borders, and as Sanders also said, want comprehensive immigration reform. But they have staunchly opposed the president’s plan to construct a wall along the southern border of the U.S. with Mexico, as they believe it would be an ineffective and costly project.

(snip)

Sanders has long criticized open borders, however. Back in 2015 he referred to it as a “right wing proposal” pushed forward by the wealthy Koch brothers. “You're doing away with the concept of a nation state, and I don't think there's any country in the world which believes in that,” he said in an interview with Ezra Klein of Vox.

The senator is correct in saying that the Koch brothers, longtime Republican donors, have supported more open borders. As recently as last week, Charles Koch spoke in California promoting the idea.

“I would let everybody in who comes here to contribute, and no one who wants to come here to do harm, and see how easy this is,” the billionaire industrialist said last Monday, according to The Post. “This goes to our whole philosophy of openness. … We have to have an open society–open to ideas, people, goods and services–to learn from each other and have us all benefit.”

(snip)

https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-open-borders-poverty-world-immigration-1388767

Now why would the oligarch Koch's want the U.S. to do away with its' borders basically eliminating the United States as a nation state?

My belief is that oligarchs and monopolies love weak nations or governments, it becomes much easier for the 1% to dominate the citizens of any nation and keep them or propel them into poverty.

[hlthe2b]

1. Handing Trump cover for his racist, hate-filled policies is NOT the way, Bernie n/t

[Demsrule86]

4. Dear God...how could anyone support this?

[Maven]

18. It's the "Free Stuff For White People" agenda in action. nt

[Demsrule86]

27. Makes me want to hurl.

[Demsrule86]

157. Disgusting.

[Lazy Daisy]

128. Are you for open borders?

[Demsrule86]

156. I believe in immigration reform. But yes I believe in granting asylum to

Those who need it,

[Lazy Daisy]

164. That wasn't my question

My question was, are you for open borders?

[dogman]

154. It is the position of the Democratic Party so far.

What? Bernie can't even support the same policy as everyone else so far?

[Demsrule86]

158. No it is not.

We do not turn away immigrants who happen to be poor. It is sen Sanders position apparently...not the Democratic position.

[dogman]

161. He sure didn't say what you say.

If we had an open border there would be an unending flow of people fleeing poverty into our Country. We do not presently allow that nor does any Democrat running so far. It is not that they are poor but those would come because of their desire to escape poverty. Maybe you can point out a Democratic candidate who supports open borders.

[Demsrule86]

5. Sickening and muddies the Democratic message,

Trump will use this.

[UniteFightBack]

35. And I believe he's doing this to set himself apart from the 'other Democrats' who maybe ya know

maybe they do want open borders...but not Bernie...so he's your man. PLEASE!

The more that Bernie speaks the more I hear pandering.

[brooklynite]

45. NO Democratic candidate suppports "open borders"

No Democratic elected officials supports "open borders".

The only question is: what is a reasonable and responsible immigration and refugee policy?

[Voltaire2]

70. So you are in favor of open borders?

[Uncle Joe]

8. Removing our borders while de-facto eliminating us as nation is not racist nor xenophobic.

Bernie does not support Trump's wall and he's not against immigration, Bernie believes in immigration reform and a pathway to citizenship for DACA residents in the U.S.

Every nation in the world has borders, so how does removing our border hand Trump anything?

[hlthe2b]

10. uggh. just ughh. No one is calling for "Open Borders" sans any security/protection/policy

But damn, what are we becoming?

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

[WeekiWater]

12. Sanders has voted against a pathway to citizenship.

You are saying he has evolved on the issue?

[Uncle Joe]

21. Do you have a link?

[WeekiWater]

26. I find his supporters often know the least about him.

He even fought to make sure it didn't get past cloture. On more than one occasion. We really got close.

S 1639 is one of the times.

Sanders joined ranks with the Republicans and opposed the Democrats.

[Demsrule86]

31. He voted against the immigration bill in 2007.

[Uncle Joe]

83. Because of that bill's guest worker provisions which in effect promoted slave labor while

also driving down wages for an already hollowed out middle class which in turn would increase poverty in the U.S.

Close to Slavery: Guestworker Programs in the United States

This report, updated in February 2013, details the systematic exploitation of foreign workers who come to this country for temporary jobs under the nation's H-2 guestworker program. Based on dozens of legal cases and interviews with thousands of guestworkers, it documents how guestworkers are routinely cheated out of wages, forced to mortgage their futures to obtain low-wage, temporary jobs, and held virtually captive by employers.

Former House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Charles Rangel put it this way: “This guestworker program’s the closest thing I’ve ever seen to slavery.”

Congressman Rangel’s conclusion is not mere hyperbole nor the first time such a comparison has been made. Former DOL official Lee G. Williams described the old “bracero” program — an earlier version of the guestworker program that brought thousands of Mexican nationals to work in the United States during and after World War II — as a system of “legalized slavery. On paper, the bracero program had many significant written legal protections, providing workers with what historian Cindy Hahamovitch, an expert on guestworker programs, has called “the most comprehensive farm labor contract in the history of American agriculture. Nevertheless, the bracero workers were systematically lied to, cheated and “shamefully neglected.

(snip)

It is virtually impossible to create a guestworker program for low-wage workers that does not involve systemic abuse. The H-2 guestworker program should not be expanded in the name of immigration reform and should not be the model for the future flow of workers to this country. If the current H-2 program is allowed to continue, it should be completely overhauled. Recommendations for doing so appear at the end of this report.

(snip)


https://www.splcenter.org/20130218/close-slavery-guestworker-programs-united-states

[lapucelle]

139. BS voted for the 2013 bill which included a guest worker program.

[BS] eventually voted for the 2013 comprehensive immigration reform bill, but not without qualms over the guest worker program—using the kind of rhetoric those on the right might approve of.

“It does not make a lot of sense to me to bring hundreds of thousands of those workers into this country to work for minimum wage and compete with Americans kids,” Sanders said in 2013.

http://time.com/4170591/bernie-sanders-immigration-conservatives/

[Uncle Joe]

141. This is why Bernie voted for the 2013 bill

(snip)

The new program, Sanders argued, would “allow large corporations to import hundreds of thousands of blue-collar and white-collar workers from overseas.” And for good measure, Sanders also ripped a section in the sweeping bill that would have bolstered the number of high-skilled immigrant workers into the country — a less contentious provision.

Sanders ultimately secured a sweetener in the final days of the 2013 immigration battle: a $1.5 billion youth jobs program that, on its face, appeared to have little to do with immigration.

It would dole out that money to states to help 16- to 24-year-olds in the United States become employed, which Sanders proclaimed would help more than 400,000 young people. He argued that his youth jobs program was necessary to offset the immigrants coming here to do jobs that Sanders said the young Americans would otherwise do.

“Like any piece of complicated legislation, there are aspects of this bill which I strongly support and others I disagree with,” Sanders after he voted to pass the 2013 bill. “One of the areas I have serious concerns about and want to see improved as the bill progresses is the huge increase in guest-worker programs. At a time when unemployment remains extremely high, these programs bring hundreds of thousands of skilled and unskilled workers into our economy making it harder for U.S. citizens to find jobs.”


https://www.politico.com/story/2015/06/bernie-sanders-and-immigration-its-complicated-119190

[lapucelle]

143. So then his 2007 vote wasn't a protest against the "slave wages"

that immigrants were being paid.

[Uncle Joe]

146. Apparently you didn't read the post I just made.

[Demsrule86]

16. This is shameful.

[awesomerwb1]

77. "Open borders" does not mean removing the borders

[Uncle Joe]

91. For all practical purposes it does as promoted by the Koch brothers.

[Voltaire2]

112. It means that our national border policy would be identical to our inter-state border policies.

[mcar]

52. This!

[mcar]

60. There are better ways to articulate an immigration policy

Perhaps Bernie could have talked about his policy, rather than feeding into RW talking points about Democrats.

[sheshe2]

78. ++++++++++++

[cwydro]

106. No shit.

[Maven]

2. LOL. So xenophobia and isolationism are a 'good thing' when they come from Bernie? nt

[Cha]

133. Excellent quesion.

[Eliot Rosewater]

3. Wait, are you saying for instance if a candidate WERE to promote a wall or MUCH MUCH Stronger border

and pushing away immigrants, that would be good?

I honestly dont know what point you are making.

Is the Koch bros anti worker reality going to now be used by some to PROMOTE anti immigration?

[marylandblue]

41. He is saying that the party should move right on immigration as an economic issue.

It's not about open borders or xenophobia. It's about businesses wanting cheap labor, so they block even common sense issues like visa tracking, mandatory e-verify and work visa abuse.

Democrats aren't addressing the immigration issue at all, except to say we welcome everyone. Well, we actually don't and we should say so. But even more, we should address the concerns of people at the bottom who feel they are in competition with illegal immigrants for jobs. We are just completely ignoring this.

[Eliot Rosewater]

43. Democrats arent addressing the immigration issue at all?

What the

F U C K

Stop BASHING the Democratic Party please


https://democrats.org/issues/immigration-reform/

WHERE THE FUCK AM I?

What website is this?

[marylandblue]

49. I named 3 specific policies that would restrict immigration

Where does your candidate stand on them? Where do any of the candidates stand? How often do they talk about restricting immigration at all? Can they talk about it without being accused of racism?

[KPN]

102. And that's moving back left on economic issues.

[Demsrule86]

159. No its about catering to racists.

Sure we need a plan, but. Not this.

[marylandblue]

162. I think he saying he wants to restrict immigration

And I am not sure there is a way to say that in the Democratic Party without being accused of racism.

[Voltaire2]

71. Do you support open borders?

[stonecutter357]

6. lol

[dawg day]

7. Who is it who is calling for "open borders?"

That's a Trump canard, and Sanders would do well to take a more nuanced approach, or at least use a different term.


It is weird, however, to find the Kochs would be so opposed to the Republican line, isn't it? But maybe when you're that rich, more money will always win out over twisted principle.

[Uncle Joe]

14. The Kochs are, it's in the OP and they refer to it as open border.

It's not weird if you think about it, Trump is a racist and xenophobe.

I believe the Kochs don't care about anything or anybody except to obtain more power and wealth for themselves, but no matter how much they have their abyss can never be filled.

[hlthe2b]

25. So, you think Bernie supporting the concept of preserving "National" identity by closing borders

is NOT actually supporting the Trump position? How would that NOT be a racist xenophobic position?

[Uncle Joe]

28. Bernie is not for closing the borders and I believe you know that, we haven't had open borders

in the modern era of United States History, certainly not what the Kochs are proposing.

[hlthe2b]

30. You seem to be contradicting yourself throughout this thread. Honestly, I don't know what you are

supporting, but your seeming statement that we must preserve "national identity" through our immigration/border policy is disturbing at best

[Me.]

9. Truth Will Out

This, no tax release yet, what next?

[IndyOp]

11. No one is calling for open borders. No one. If I am wrong about this

then share a link from a member of Congress or someone running for State or National office who says they want open borders.

[dogman]

155. First sentence of the link.

"Senator Bernie Sanders pushed back to clarify his position on immigration on Sunday after he was asked in Iowa about his reported support for open borders."
Bernie was answering for himself. You will see a few posters on this thread who seem to think he is wrong.

[Socal31]

13. Yikes Bernie...

Why even talk about an issue that isn't an issue? Open border isn't happening...

[Demsrule86]

17. He plays to Trump'so base and in effect calls Democrats open border lovers...win win

for him... this gives Trump cover.

[Uncle Joe]

24. The questioner asked about "open borders" and that's what the Kochs have been promoting.

[Demsrule86]

33. Joe I like you and the idea of national identity and this crap is not who you are.

[Uncle Joe]

38. I like you as well Demsrule but national identity is what the Kochs are trying to eliminate with

with their lobbying.

President Obama wasn't for open borders, so why should Bernie be for it?

I have to leave for business but will be back later.

Peace to you.

[Demsrule86]

44. National idenity is a racist notion. Imigrants don't hurt our identity...and the idea that we need

to reject the Poor in particular is a bad message. President. Obama enforced existing law. He helped those he could. He wanted to change the law. Our message needs to be comprehensive immigration reform with both border control and help for asylum seekers...a pathway to citizenship too.

[Uncle Joe]

85. National identity is having a government of "We the People" not "We the Corporations."

[Autumn]

40. He was asked a question by a member of the audience. Should all the candidates refuse to

answer a question by a person who is mistaken on what the candidates believe? How is that playing to Trump's base and giving Trump cover?

[Autumn]

58. Why? Because he was asked a question at a town hall and being the polite person he is

and the candidate at the town hall, he answered it. That's how town halls work.

[Socal31]

67. I was suggesting he shouldn't entertain the question.

It's a loaded question. Open borders are not an actual party platform. No candidate is for open borders.

[RandySF]

15. On the Statue of Liberty, which greeted Bernie's family when they arrived to America

“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

[Voltaire2]

72. Do you support open borders?

[Uncle Joe]

19. The Kochs Have Professed Concern for Immigrants--But Their Spending Tells a Different Story

Amid the Koch brothers' public-relations campaign to salvage their brand, it is vital to remember how they have spent their entire adult lives: pushing for smaller government and lower taxes at the expense of working-class people, many of whom are people of color and immigrants.

(snip)

And yet, for years, Koch and his powerful political network have poured hundreds of millions of dollars into each of the past several elections to install congressional Republicans whose policies are damaging to historically marginalized groups. Despite his claims supporting DACA recipients, Koch-backed members of Congress have been killing bills that would do just that. The network also funds state legislators who have fought the enactment of sanctuary city policies. Koch’s company has caused several wrongful deaths and is one of the biggest corporate polluters in the world, disproportionately affecting communities of color.

(snip)

KochPAC bankrolled the campaigns of 80 percent of the ultra-conservative Freedom Caucus of the U.S. House, according to the Center for Media and Democracy. This group of far-right lawmakers stands firmly against a path to citizenship for young adults who are part of the Obama-era DACA program. On February 11, GOP Rep. Jim Jordan (OH) said that the Freedom Caucus would not consider any action on extending DACA, which Trump ended last year, unless they pass funding for a border wall and get rid of family reunification, the visa lottery system, and sanctuary cities.

At the same time, Charles Koch alleges that he cares about the DACA recipients and urges Congress to pass a solution to allow these young adults to remain in the United States and eventually obtain citizenship. What he actually believes is immaterial—what is clear is that lower taxes and fewer regulations are his top priorities, regardless of the ill effects that these policies, and many others passed by conservative-dominated legislative bodies, have on individuals.

(snip)

https://rewire.news/article/2018/03/09/kochs-professed-concern-immigrants-spending-tells-different-story/

[comradebillyboy]

47. I like the Koch's position on immigration much better than Bernie's.

[KPN]

20. Well, the blasters will certainly be blasting Bernie over his position that we shouldn't have open

borders, but effective border security and comprehensive immigration reform instead. Oh and nevermind his opposition to ICE and immigrant detention/incarceration.

No surprise.

Gee, I wonder how many Dems would go on the record as favoring open borders?

[Uncle Joe]

22. Thank you for the voice of reason KPN.

[KPN]

23. Yeah, and all the clamor some here make about Progressives being a circular firing squad.

I may not vote for Bernie this primary, but I'm sure not going to keep my mouth shut during his public lynching. Bernie has done more to further the cause of economic progressivism than anyone in my lifetime. He should be a national hero for Democrats, not a scourge.

[TreasonousBastard]

29. Europe has had open borders since 1985. It has made them stronger...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area

The Schengen Area ( /ˈʃɛŋən/, /ˈʃɛŋɡən/) is an area comprising 26 European states that have officially abolished all passport and all other types of border control at their mutual borders. The area mostly functions as a single jurisdiction for international travel purposes, with a common visa policy. The area is named after the 1985 Schengen Agreement.

22 of the 28 EU member states participate in the Schengen Area. Of the six EU members that are not part of the Schengen Area, four—Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, and Romania—are legally obliged to join the area, while the other two—Ireland and the United Kingdom—maintain opt-outs. The four European Free Trade Association (EFTA) member states, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, and Switzerland, are not members of the EU, but have signed agreements in association with the Schengen Agreement. Three European microstates—Monaco, San Marino, and the Vatican City—are de facto part of the Schengen Area.

Of course there are problems-- there are always problems. But France is still France and Germany is still Germany with the only difference now that they are friends.

There is is a functional open border with Mexico. Billions in trade going both ways, especially in the smaller things that make life in border towns interesting. Tacos for lunch, why not just walk across the border? Thousands, maybe millions, do that all the time.

[Voltaire2]

73. Within the EU. Not at all for people outside the EU.

So you support open borders for the US?

[TreasonousBastard]

86. Last time I flew to Frankfurt or London, I didn't even go through a passport check...

at the airport.

But, we had NAFTA, which is pretty much the same as the pre-EU customs union, so why not open borders between US, Canada, and Mexico?

9/11 started a lot of this crap. I had a friend in Toronto who used to go to Florida on vacation. After 9/11, because she was born in Sweden, she had to go through a ton of paperwork and ended up vacationing in Cuba instead. Why should a middle-aged and perfectly law abiding and peaceful woman be denied entry because her parents settled in Canada when she was 5 years old?

Note that most people and businesses actually on the border hate this crap. France and Germany have been at war pretty much since Rome fell, but now they are best buds.

[Voltaire2]

110. Yeah you did.

Wherever you landed first in the EU you went through a border check. They looked at your passport. If it was not a direct flight, the next stop within the EU had no checks.

[TreasonousBastard]

114. I remember the "Passkontrol" in Frankfurt was simply a huge mob waving passports in the air...

while passing a couple of bored unformed types. Next thing I knew, I was out on the street.

The simple fact is that they already know who is on the plane and who they might have to look out for, so it doesn't do much to stop everyone again.

[Voltaire2]

116. So again, you went through passport control in Frankfurt.

It was not up to the standards of the stunningly awful process at the US border, as indeed they already know everyone who is on the plane, so what is the point, but you had to show your passport, and if there were people they did not want to admit they would have been stopped at that point.

the EU does not have an "open border policy" with respect to non EU nations.

[Uncle Joe]

32. "Few Americans Want Open Borders-- Democrats Included" P.S. Including President Obama

(snip)

Barack Obama certainly didn’t believe in open borders. By 2015, President Obama had deported some 2.5 million people with time remaining in office. That was already half a million more than George W. Bush deported his entire time as president. Some human rights groups referred to Obama as “The Deporter in Chief.” True, those higher numbers can partly be attributed to a change at the time in how we defined a “deportation.” Still, that’s hardly an administration characterized by open borders.

In 2010, Obama signed a bill designating $600 million to fund 1,500 new Border Patrol agents, customs inspectors, and law enforcement officials along our border with Mexico. He ordered 1,200 National Guard troops to the border. And he oversaw the development of a virtual fence, utilizing surveillance sensors, radar, cameras, and drones, which would span 1,300 miles of our border at a projected cost of almost $7 billion. The Department of Homeland Security ended that effort after $1 billion was spent and the results deemed ineffective and too expensive.

These are hardly the actions of an “open borders” president.

(snip)

https://medium.com/s/story/few-americans-want-open-borders-democrats-included-dba12884c133

Does anyone out there believe that President Obama was xenophobe?

I don't but this is Bernie..so there's that.

[workinclasszero]

64. President Obama..2.5 million deported NP👍👍👍 Bernie deported ZERO people...racist xenophobe!11!1!

Why just the other day President Obama was warning about the "circular firing squad" and here we are on DU with all the guns pointing directly at Bernie like usual!

[MrsCoffee]

75. Except that your premise is completely wrong.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-deported-more-people/

What's True
Statistically, more people were deported from the U.S. during the administration of President Barack Obama than during that of any other president.

What's False
That statistic was due in large part to a change in how "deportations" are defined rather than to an increase in the number of persons deported.

However, that statistic is somewhat misleading, as a significant portion of it was due to a change in the way “deportations” are defined that began during the Bush administration, not in the actual number of persons turned out of the U.S. As the Los Angeles Times noted, if not for that change in definition about what constitutes a “deportation,” the Obama administration likely would not have been a record-setting one in this area:

The number of people deported at or near the [U.S.-Mexico] border has gone up — primarily as a result of changing who gets counted in the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency’s deportation statistics.

The vast majority of those border crossers would not have been treated as formal deportations under most previous administrations. If all removals were tallied, the total sent back to Mexico each year would have been far higher under those previous administrations than it is now.

Until recent years, most people caught illegally crossing the southern border were simply bused back into Mexico in what officials called “voluntary returns,” but which critics derisively termed “catch and release.” Those removals, which during the 1990s reached more 1 million a year, were not counted in Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s deportation statistics.

Now, the vast majority of border crossers who are apprehended get fingerprinted and formally deported. The change began during the George W. Bush administration and accelerated under Obama. The policy stemmed in part from a desire to ensure that people who had crossed into the country illegally would have formal charges on their records.

In the Obama years, all of the increase in deportations has involved people picked up within 100 miles of the border, most of whom [had] just recently crossed over. In 2013, almost two-thirds of deportations were in that category.

[progressoid]

79. Josh Earnest acknowledged Obama supports deportation of those who recently entered the US illegally

The Obama administration confirmed Monday that it began a new wave of arrests of Central American immigrant families over the weekend, moving forward with deportations of mothers and children despite an outcry from immigrant rights groups and potential political fallout for Democrats.

...

"This past weekend, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) engaged in concerted, nationwide enforcement operations to take into custody and return at a greater rate adults who entered this country illegally with children," Johnson said. "This should come as no surprise. I have said publicly for months that individuals who constitute enforcement priorities, including families and unaccompanied children, will be removed."

White House press secretary Josh Earnest acknowledged "some discussions" between the White House and DHS over policy matters related to the raids, but did not get into specifics. He said President Barack Obama supports deportation of those who recently entered the U.S. illegally...

I remember fishing with a teacher who told us how his students were taken from his school in a small town in Minnesota. Siblings separated to different facilities in different towns hundreds of miles apart. Good times. Good times.

[Uncle Joe]

88. Your premise is wrong, statistically it makes no difference how many get deported. If we had

open borders like the Kochs are lobbying for, no one would be deported for crossing illegally, because it wouldn't be illegal.

So what do believe would be the economic AND social repercussions from such a policy?

[sheshe2]

82. Hmmm.

workinclasszero (28,168 posts)

64. President Obama..2.5 million deported NP👍👍👍 Bernie deported ZERO people...racist xenophobe!11!1!

So when was BS sworn in as President?

[marylandblue]

105. Technically speaking, if ALL the guns are pointed at Bernie, the firing squad is not circular

[workinclasszero]

113. Yeah that was my point

[marylandblue]

121. So much for my attempt at humor

[workinclasszero]

122. I get it

[treestar]

163. silly comparison

bernie wasn't President. Senators can't deport anyone.

[MrsCoffee]

76. This is a gross distortion.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-deported-more-people/

What's True
Statistically, more people were deported from the U.S. during the administration of President Barack Obama than during that of any other president.

What's False
That statistic was due in large part to a change in how "deportations" are defined rather than to an increase in the number of persons deported.

However, that statistic is somewhat misleading, as a significant portion of it was due to a change in the way “deportations” are defined that began during the Bush administration, not in the actual number of persons turned out of the U.S. As the Los Angeles Times noted, if not for that change in definition about what constitutes a “deportation,” the Obama administration likely would not have been a record-setting one in this area:

The number of people deported at or near the [U.S.-Mexico] border has gone up — primarily as a result of changing who gets counted in the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency’s deportation statistics.

The vast majority of those border crossers would not have been treated as formal deportations under most previous administrations. If all removals were tallied, the total sent back to Mexico each year would have been far higher under those previous administrations than it is now.

Until recent years, most people caught illegally crossing the southern border were simply bused back into Mexico in what officials called “voluntary returns,” but which critics derisively termed “catch and release.” Those removals, which during the 1990s reached more 1 million a year, were not counted in Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s deportation statistics.

Now, the vast majority of border crossers who are apprehended get fingerprinted and formally deported. The change began during the George W. Bush administration and accelerated under Obama. The policy stemmed in part from a desire to ensure that people who had crossed into the country illegally would have formal charges on their records.

In the Obama years, all of the increase in deportations has involved people picked up within 100 miles of the border, most of whom [had] just recently crossed over. In 2013, almost two-thirds of deportations were in that category.

[TexasTowelie]

34. Jay Peak, EB-5 visas.

Bernie didn't have any problems with the immigrants willing to pay up to a half million dollars to invest in the Jay Peak resort in Vermont to obtain EB-5 visas. I guess that some immigrants are better than others?

[sheshe2]

84. +++

[Go Vols]

126. Ex-Jay Peak owner to pay in EB-5 visa fraud case

[themaguffin]

36. I hope that Bernie can clarify this.

[Autumn]

42. He was asked at a town hall why he supports open borders. He doesn't, he clarified that

to the audience member.

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) on Sunday shot back at those who suggest he supports open borders, saying high levels of global poverty would make an open borders policy complicated.

When asked at an Oskaloosa, Iowa, town hall why he supported open borders, the 2020 White House candidate was quick to clarify his stance.


“I’m afraid you may be getting your information wrong," Sanders replied, according to The Washington Post. "I think what we need is comprehensive immigration reform.”

“Oh my god, there’s a lot of poverty in this world, and you’re going to have people from all over the world. And I don’t think that’s something that we can do at this point. Can’t do it,” the Vermont lawmaker continued.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/437790-bernie-sanders-blasts-open-borders-theres-a-lot-of-poverty-in-this-world

[WeekiWater]

59. Sad that he so quickly attached it to "a lot of poverty in this world."

So much of our immigration issue has nothing to do with poverty.

[Autumn]

61. No ? People try to come to America because they are fleeing the wealth of their homeland?

[WeekiWater]

62. This clears up a lot.

Thank you for such honesty.

[sheshe2]

93. Reducing their plight to a Jim Carey gif.

THEY FLEE
UNSPEAKABLE TRAGEDY

GANG VIOLENCE
ORGANIZED CRIME
CHILD ABUSE
SEX TRAFFICKING
DOMESTIC VIOLENCE
ABANDONMENT
DEATH OF PARENTS
LABOR EXPLOITATION
CORRUPTION
POVERTY
THEY FLEE FROM
EL SALVADOR

About 3 in 5 children leaving El Salvador are escaping gang violence.

GUATEMALA

In Guatemala, 16 murders occur every day.

HONDURAS

San Pedro Sula, Honduras, is well known as the murder capital of the world.

MEXICO

Children fleeing Mexico face equally deadly situations as children from Central America, but most are immediately returned without access to protection from the conditions they fled in the first place.

WITH NO TICKET, NO MONEY, NO ONE TO ASK FOR HELP, THEY PERSEVERE.

THEY RISK LIFE AND LIMB



Walk in their shoes. See through their eyes. Explore the issues.

REFUGEES ARE SEEKING SAFETY, FREEDOM, AND A FUTURE

IMMIGRANTS ARE HERE FOR GOOD

CHILDREN ARE RUNNING FOR THEIR LIVES

MODERN-DAY SLAVERY IS HAPPENING ON MAIN STREET


https://refugees.org/explore-the-issues/unaccompanied-migrating-children-facts/

[Autumn]

96. Yeah we know why they flee their homeland, so does Bernie, his family fled the Holocaust.

Link to tweet

?

[sheshe2]

107. Obviously BS does.

I just find your clip disturbing in the light of what Bernie's family went through and what these kids have gone through.

I was able to find a lot about my family with Ancestry.com. I only used the free trial, so info was limited. However was able to see the shipping manifests with my grandfathers family on it. If you haven't already you should try it.

Thanks, Autumn.

[Autumn]

111. The truth is often disturbing. Poverty is one of the main reasons people emigrate from their home

and family, to say it isn't is wrong. I have a subscription to Ancestry.com My grandfather came here from Mexico when he was 8 and worked the fields with his father. A child doing a mans back breaking work so they could send money to feed and care for my grandmother and his two sisters and family that they behind until they could get them here to America. I remember him talking wistfully about his family in San Felipe and how much he missed the stars.

[sheshe2]

118. It is not just about poverty.

Many other factors.

Autumn

111. The truth is often disturbing. Poverty is one of the main reasons people emigrate from their home

As you know my comment that it was "disturbing" was about your laughing Jim Cary gif, not the situation as you well know.

So sorry for your families suffering, Autumn.

[Autumn]

120. I said one of the main factors. Be sorry for the ones turned away and not given an opportunity. nt

[Uncle Joe]

109. What do you believe is best way for the U.S. to solve those problems and how

did those tragedies begin in the first place?

[MineralMan]

37. So, Bernie's plan is, like, all nuanced and stuff like that, right?

The current GOP is pushing hard on the idea that Democrats want "Open Borders," so Senator Sanders is trying to say that he doesn't want open borders. Is that it?

Well, there is more than one definition of "open borders," and the GOP is using one of those. Bernie seems to think that he can use the other definition and that everyone will understand. He's wrong.

Bernie overestimates the knowledge and understanding of the voting public. Now, I know what Bernie means about open borders. But, the definition he's using is so nuanced that it doesn't get understood by the average voter or even the average Democrat.

Bad move, Bernie. Really. You just lost another 10% of your potential primary vote, see...

[rgbecker]

56. MM, I hope you can spell this out for us.

Give us the list of "Open border" definitions so we can be clear when we talk with those average voters like me.

The issue of immigration is probably the most complex one on the table...even compared to Healthcare. If Bernie can lose 10% with a simple answer to a question about "open borders" we need to get to the bottom of what exactly that means.

Hope you can clear this up.

Please.

[MineralMan]

57. I can't clear it up. It's too complicated for that.

For those who are thoughtful political junkies, it's possible to think it through and maybe figure out what Bernie's trying to say. But, most people won't bother. They hear "open borders" and just react, based on whatever they think that means.

We do politics now in bumper sticker phrases. We rarely think about anything long enough to find the nuanced meaning. Personally, I just let it all slide off and take a longer view of things. I don't do bumper stickers. I don't use them, nor do I read them. They're useless.

What matters is the individual definition of "open borders." You have one. I have one. Bernie has one. Trump has one. Everybody's reaction will be based on what they think it means. On such things swing votes or intentions to vote. If Bernie's support changes 10%, that will mean a 1% change in support for today's polling. Beyond that, it's all meaningless at this early stage of the primary race.

So, sorry. I can't explain it in detail. "Open borders" means whatever you and I and everyone else think it means.

[Voltaire2]

119. Open borders mean no limits on immigration.

This is not complicated. We have open borders inside the United States between our individual states. The EU has open borders within the EU between member states. That is the common understanding of what "Open Borders" means.

The US had open borders until the end of the 19th century.

[Autumn]

63. That's one voter who now knows Bernie isn't for open borders. I don't see where Bernie discussed

any plan in that short exchange. Much less all nuanced and stuff. Maybe I'm missing it.


When asked at an Oskaloosa, Iowa, town hall why he supported open borders, the 2020 White House candidate was quick to clarify his stance.

“I’m afraid you may be getting your information wrong," Sanders replied, according to The Washington Post. "I think what we need is comprehensive immigration reform.”

I don't think any Dems are for open borders and some for the very reason Bernie gave. But I still don't see any plan.

“Oh my god, there’s a lot of poverty in this world, and you’re going to have people from all over the world. And I don’t think that’s something that we can do at this point. Can’t do it,” the Vermont lawmaker continued.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/437790-bernie-sanders-blasts-open-borders-theres-a-lot-of-poverty-in-this-world

[customerserviceguy]

39. Makes sense to me

We don't have to be absolute dicks about it like Trump, but if the United States is not the world's policeman, it's not the world's lifeboat, either.

[Demsrule86]

48. Well when my Grandfather came

over broke and with a price on his head,he was offered a lifeboat.

[customerserviceguy]

65. When we had them to hand out

that was fine. And we were the world's policeman through two World Wars in the 20th Century, but that ended, too.

[customerserviceguy]

66. When we had them to hand out

that was fine. And we were the world's policeman through two World Wars in the 20th Century, but that ended, too.

[Demsrule86]

69. Nothing has ended. The only reason this even an issue is Bernie. Said it.

I don't care who said it national identity is a racist meme...not saying Sanders meant it that way but that is how it will be received. I have no idea what Sanders meant. We do have room and have a moral obligation to help those in need of asylum.

[Voltaire2]

74. Unless you are very old your grandfather had to pass through immigration.

We stopped having open borders a long time ago.

[borgesian]

46. He's right. Open borders is pure madness, and a Koch bros. libertarian dream.

It's one of those things that people who advocate for it never refer to it as such. But when you don't want to turn away anyone who wants to come in, when you don't want to deport anyone who is here illegally, then what else, practically speaking, is that but open borders?

[Demsrule86]

50. No he is not right. And hopefully this will be a disaster for him.

[borgesian]

51. Open borders is fringe libertarian stuff, and is not a popular policy position.

Sanders has shown that he is not insane on this issue.

[Demsrule86]

55. No Democrat has advocated this position.

Big I find Sanders position awful... not take the poor.

[workinclasszero]

115. Are you serious?

Man I can't wait for Joe Biden to come out in favor of erasing our borders.

That will be must see TV!

[Demsrule86]

160. Joe Biden has ethics. He is for comprehensive reform.

[Fred Sandman]

53. Truthier News: Media Again Plays WHERE's Waldo? with words and phrases.

[yardwork]

54. I don't agree with the concept of nation-states. It causes world wars.

[we can do it]

68. More divisive BS

[Thomas Hurt]

80. You would think that Bernie would be smarter than to fall for the two word fascist newspeak...

not to mention poor people have been immigrating to this country since the beginning.

[comradebillyboy]

81. Rep. Steve King praises Bernie's stance on immigration.

:large

[Autumn]

87. Is there a list of Democrats that are advocating for or support open borders?

[comradebillyboy]

89. Not that I know of.

[Autumn]

90. So it's only bad when Bernie is against open borders? nt

[comradebillyboy]

98. Bernie has the most restrictive immigration policies right now.

He's the guy who showed up on Lou Dobb's show to denounce immigration, he voted against the 2007 comprehensive immigration reform bill. He clearly doesn't think poor people should be allowed to enter the US. So Bernie is way to the right end of the pack on immigration reform.

[Autumn]

99. We know why he voted against the 2007 comprehensive immigration reform bill, I agree with him

100% on his vote and his reasons for doing so. So it's safe to say the asshole King agrees with all Democrats on close boarders?

https://www.splcenter.org/20130218/close-slavery-guestworker-programs-united-states

When the Southern Poverty Law Center published the first version of this report in 2007, we recommended reform or repeal of the H-2 program. Unfortunately, even after the enactment of modest reforms in recent years, guestworker programs today are still inherently abusive and unfair to both U.S. and foreign workers.

In the past several years, the DOL has proposed two sets of regulations to better protect non-agricultural H-2 workers – one related to wage rate guarantees and one more comprehensive set of regulations. These regulations also would better protect the jobs and wages of U.S. workers. Unfortunately for workers, neither set of regulations has gone into effect; employers have filed multiple lawsuits challenging them, and Congress has effectively blocked implementation of the new wage regulations. For workers, then, the abuses continue unabated.

[lunamagica]

101. That wasn't his position on thde Dobbs show

[Autumn]

103. I don't watch Fox. nt

[lunamagica]

123. That was on CNN

[sheshe2]

153. Boom!

[Uncle Joe]

108. What exact point that Bernie made in this interview do you disagree with?

[lunamagica]

129. "I don't know why we need millions of prople coming into this country"

"I just read that a lot of people coming in to this country are coming in as lifeguards. I guess we can't find American workers to work as lifeguards"

Immigration taking away jobs from American workers is a right wing point

[Uncle Joe]

131. Do you believe near slavery either takes away jobs or has a diminishing effect on workers income?

Close to Slavery: Guestworker Programs in the United States

This report, updated in February 2013, details the systematic exploitation of foreign workers who come to this country for temporary jobs under the nation's H-2 guestworker program. Based on dozens of legal cases and interviews with thousands of guestworkers, it documents how guestworkers are routinely cheated out of wages, forced to mortgage their futures to obtain low-wage, temporary jobs, and held virtually captive by employers.

Former House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Charles Rangel put it this way: “This guestworker program’s the closest thing I’ve ever seen to slavery.”

Congressman Rangel’s conclusion is not mere hyperbole nor the first time such a comparison has been made. Former DOL official Lee G. Williams described the old “bracero” program — an earlier version of the guestworker program that brought thousands of Mexican nationals to work in the United States during and after World War II — as a system of “legalized slavery. On paper, the bracero program had many significant written legal protections, providing workers with what historian Cindy Hahamovitch, an expert on guestworker programs, has called “the most comprehensive farm labor contract in the history of American agriculture. Nevertheless, the bracero workers were systematically lied to, cheated and “shamefully neglected.

(snip)

It is virtually impossible to create a guestworker program for low-wage workers that does not involve systemic abuse. The H-2 guestworker program should not be expanded in the name of immigration reform and should not be the model for the future flow of workers to this country. If the current H-2 program is allowed to continue, it should be completely overhauled. Recommendations for doing so appear at the end of this report.

(snip)


https://www.splcenter.org/20130218/close-slavery-guestworker-programs-united-states

[lunamagica]

132. You are ignoring what he said on Lou Dobbs. You want to make it sound like he had some concern

for the migrant workers, when the reality is that he made them sound like job-stealing invaders who do nothing but hurt American workers.

You know very well that the best way for wages to increase is to have undocumented workers come out of the shadows by legalizing them. But Sanders has is not, and has never been a friend of the immigrant.

These people come for a better life, many are trying to escape certain death, just like Sanders ancestors did. And I'm sure that when they came, they also earned very low wages

[Cha]

136. Gracias for the Reality on BS' stance on immigration,

Luna

[Uncle Joe]

138. Bernie has always had sincere concern for the people, that's one of his major strengths,

he is for a pathway to citizenship for DACA residents, against the wall and for immigration reform.

Bernie is a multifaceted individual looking at the big picture but his preeminent agency will always be for American Citizens, that's his job as one of our representatives.

That doesn't detract from his global concerns in regards to peoples lives no matter where they live or come from.

[lunamagica]

145. I view him very differently, the clip showed a total disregard for immigrants, so we'll diagree

I believe we are all human beings with rights regardless when we came from. And immigration is good for America. It was good when Sanders ancestors came, and it is good now.

But back then and now, there have been people who scapegoat immigrants and blame them for the ills of the country. This is xenophobic, and so very wrong. The country is not full now. There is plenty of room for new immigrants.

[Uncle Joe]

148. If immigration is "so good now" why is virtually every Democratic Candidate for President calling

for immigration reform?

[lunamagica]

150. Are you seriously asking that? Yes they are all calling for immigration reform with a path

to citizenship...you know, bringing people out of the shadow to legalize them...

What a strange question!

[Uncle Joe]

151. So is Bernie.

[lunamagica]

152. Unlike Sanders, none of the others have scape-goated immigrants, so they are believable

[Cha]

135. Thanks for posting BS' record of "Voting against Immigration"

on Cnn, Luna.

[lunamagica]

147. You are welcome, Cha. It is hard to believe that someone buys he is pro-immigration reform after

watching that. He makes immigrants sound like job-stealing invaders!

[Cha]

149. Of course, he does.. but you know

how it is.. he can do no wrong

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

127. We all know the obvious answer to that question!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Cha]

134. I saw that on twitter.. very

impressive.

[lunamagica]

92. Remember, this guy voted against immigration reform, and then ran to Dobbs to brag about it

[Uncle Joe]

95. From my post# 83

Because of that bill's guest worker provisions which in effect promoted slave labor while

also driving down wages for an already hollowed out middle class which in turn would increase poverty in the U.S.

Close to Slavery: Guestworker Programs in the United States

This report, updated in February 2013, details the systematic exploitation of foreign workers who come to this country for temporary jobs under the nation's H-2 guestworker program. Based on dozens of legal cases and interviews with thousands of guestworkers, it documents how guestworkers are routinely cheated out of wages, forced to mortgage their futures to obtain low-wage, temporary jobs, and held virtually captive by employers.

Former House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Charles Rangel put it this way: “This guestworker program’s the closest thing I’ve ever seen to slavery.”

Congressman Rangel’s conclusion is not mere hyperbole nor the first time such a comparison has been made. Former DOL official Lee G. Williams described the old “bracero” program — an earlier version of the guestworker program that brought thousands of Mexican nationals to work in the United States during and after World War II — as a system of “legalized slavery. On paper, the bracero program had many significant written legal protections, providing workers with what historian Cindy Hahamovitch, an expert on guestworker programs, has called “the most comprehensive farm labor contract in the history of American agriculture. Nevertheless, the bracero workers were systematically lied to, cheated and “shamefully neglected.

(snip)

It is virtually impossible to create a guestworker program for low-wage workers that does not involve systemic abuse. The H-2 guestworker program should not be expanded in the name of immigration reform and should not be the model for the future flow of workers to this country. If the current H-2 program is allowed to continue, it should be completely overhauled. Recommendations for doing so appear at the end of this report.

(snip)


https://www.splcenter.org/20130218/close-slavery-guestworker-programs-united-states

[lunamagica]

100. GMAB. Just look at the clip from Dobbs. Concern for immigrants was the last thing on his mind

He and Dobbs were like two peas in a pod:

[Uncle Joe]

104. GMAB which exact point that Bernie made in this interview do you disagree with?

[Cha]

137. Shameful.

[MFM008]

94. Im glad

This wasnt the issue in 1853
We would still be sitting at the port
In liverpool..

[Uncle Joe]

97. In 1853, the U.S. already had slave labor.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

124. Another right wing talking point goes by the wayside

[Uncle Joe]

125. I agree Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin.

[lapucelle]

140. That is one of the most blunt and damning headlines I've ever seen in Newsweek.

Bernie Sanders Says U.S. Can't Have 'Open Borders' Because Poor People Will Come 'From All Over the World'

Oh my god, there’s a lot of poverty in this world, and you’re going to have people from all over the world. And I don’t think that’s something that we can do at this point. Can’t do it,” the senator added.

The New Colossus (Emma Lazarus)

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips.

“Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

[Uncle Joe]

142. Perhaps that's because all you're focusing on IS the headline.

I prefer the substance of the article.

[lapucelle]

144. I did read it. N/T