The reason Sanders' tax returns matter has nothing to do with the taxes themselves

[LongtimeAZDem]

Candidates make a lot of promises; some will be kept, others not. Most of the time, whether they are kept is largely out of the individuals hands, due to partisan wrangling and changing conditions. As such, it is hard to evaluate a candidate's integrity based on promises met.

In the case of Sanders' taxes, however, there is no other force at work; the only thing preventing him from releasing them, as he has repeatedly promised to do for almost three years, is him.

As such, it is a simple measure of whether his word is any good. If he cannot fulfill such a simple promise, which he could easily have done long since, how can he be trusted on any other matter?

[MarianJack]

1. Easy answer, IMHO.

Back Bench Bernie CAN'T be trusted.

RESIST!

[BlueFlorida]

2. Exactly

It goes to credibility, transparency and willingness to come clean with the American people.

It also shows a lack of courage to face whatever is in there and to defend it.

[MH1]

14. It also undermines Dems for demanding Trump's tax returns.

If Bernie gets away with not releasing his - and somehow Dems nominate him (!) - then it undermines every Dem politician who has hammered for Trump's tax returns.

[vlyons]

3. agree completely

For me, it's about more than just trust. Given the wrangling over Trump's taxes, and that other Dem candidates (Warren e.g.) have released tax returns, I question his good judgement about not doing it. It would be so simple. Between his accountant and his web master, could be posted in a day or so. We Dems want to show all our citizens that our party's candidate is a person of integrity and honor, who does not engage in self-dealing and nefarious financial shenanigans.

We don't need any KGOP what-aboutisms over our eventual candidate's taxes.

[NurseJackie]

4. I consider it to be the same as "PLEADING THE FIFTH" ...

I consider it to be the same as "PLEADING THE FIFTH" in the way that he's continually making excuse after excuse and delay after delay. Now, obviously, when someone pleads-the-fifth, that's not actual proof of wrongdoing. But it is proof that there's something they don't want people to see, or know.

So, that just makes me even more curious. What is it that he and Jane are hiding? Why do they want to hide it?

What can it be that the NEGATIVE FALLOUT from being so secretive is somehow PREFERABLE to simply releasing the tax returns???

It certainly is inconsistent behavior for someone who's make "transparency" and "honesty" a cornerstone of all the nagging and criticism that's hurled at other politicians. Now this?

What gives? What's up?

The American people deserve to know the truth. This is one huge "FUCK YOU" to the American voters and an equally loud "KISS MY ASS" to the Democratic party and the rest of the candidates.

That's really not the kind of person that I want to represent my party, NOR to be the leader of the free world. I think we can do better.

[Me.]

5. Precisely

[bahrbearian]

6. On top of that he needs to release all his transcripts, private and public.

[nycbos]

26. +1

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. Exactly right.

I don't think there's anything there that would suggest anything criminal or unethical as is likely with Trump's tax returns. It's more likely that they would show investments in the sort of big, predatory corporations that he rails against, and he's afraid the purity brigade would be disappointed.

Cough 'em up, Bernie. If the purity brigade is bothered by the fact that you or your mutual funds or IRAs own stock in oil and tobacco companies, so be it. The purity brigade can go fuck itself anyhow.

[LakeArenal]

8. He's been "dotting T's and crossing I's" for a long time

Shut up all of us and release them already.

Unless you worry the release will make us louder!!!

[trueblue2007]

22. you said Bernie has been "dotting T's and crossing I's" for a long time. HOW MANY T & i'S ARE THERE

[TexasTowelie]

29. How many T's and I's are there

in Bernard Sanders and Jane O'Meara Sanders?

[sheshe2]

51. No I's or T's left....

The rest is just numbers that don't need to be spelled out.

Two is just a 2.

[stonecutter357]

9. K&R

[yardwork]

10. This.

[lunamagica]

11. What is Sanders hiding?

[nycbos]

27. He doesn't want people to know that he is richer than people think.

The opposite of Trump.


While there is absolutely nothing wrong with making a lot of money from a book deal, I am guessing he feels it would tarnish his image as an "everyman"

[Gothmog]

12. Bernie Sanders is "providing political cover" for Donald Trump not releasing his tax returns,

Link to tweet

[trueblue2007]

23. " NICE FACE "

[Gothmog]

41. I noticed that also

[LiberalLovinLug]

13. This reminds me of the hounding for Hillary's missing emails

(No I'm, no re-fighting the primaries, Yeah Hillary!!!, I'm only using that incident as an example of tunnel-vision)
Sanders was at least gracious enough to not pile on and even expressed his disgust at people going on about that. But he's always been wary of the media or other interests making a yuuuuuge deal out of what are insignificant matters in the big picture.

https://theintercept.com/2019/04/05/bernie-sanders-tax-returns/


For Sanders, the trappings of politics and campaigns are by default either corrupting or absurd in comparison to the scale of the true crises facing the American people. It’s not about political expediency: He doesn’t want his opponents caught up in frivolous debates, either, even when it means giving up some advantage. “The American people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn emails,” he famously said in an October 2015 debate with Hillary Clinton, then went on to add: “Let me say something about the media as well. I go around the country, talk to a whole lot of people. Middle class of this country is collapsing. We have 27 million people living in poverty. We have massive wealth and income inequality. Our trade policies have cost us millions of decent jobs. The American people want to know whether we’re going to have a democracy or an oligarchy as a result of Citizens United. Enough of the emails, let’s talk about the real issues.”


1. Even if worst case scenario, there was some irregularity found in one of this tax returns, doesn't it depend on how serious it is? And do you really really think, even if you may loathe the man for your own reason, that he would be involved in trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the IRS? Maybe hes just a stubborn old man who doesn't like being told what to do. Or, its complicated because he didn't keep good records. "There are other, more practical reasons for having not yet released the returns. The Sanders family, unsurprisingly, doesn’t employ a professional tax adviser."

2. This is a convenient red herring, which opponents of Sanders scavenge for on a daily basis, instead of debating what they find wrong with his platform, with what he's fought for, the bills he has proposed etc... and I can almost guarantee any response to this post won't include that either.

3. The whole faux hanky wringing is moot anyways. He has already promised to release his taxes by around April 15th. Why not wait at least until then before crying wolf again?

4. It is sad to watch other Democrats doing Republicans work for them against one of our more popular candidates. Making an issue out to be more important than it deserves. Sanders understood this in regards to Hillary's emails. There are better bigger issues to talk about.

[MH1]

15. Not even close. He is undermining the Democratic Party at this point.

If Bernie gets away with not releasing his tax returns - and somehow Dems nominate him (!) - then it undermines every Dem politician who has hammered for Trump's tax returns.

I voted for him in the primary in 2016. I initially supported his run (although there was an early candidate I liked better, who was gone by the time I got to vote). I am very sorry I ever contributed to giving him air. He has some good policy ideas but his role has been to undermine Democrats. Fuck that.

[LiberalLovinLug]

18. You don't think Hillary not releasing the emails did not hurt her support at least a little?

And that "undermined" the party as well with some on the fence at least? Not talking about even if she could have. My understanding is that there were something like 30,000 emails that were destroyed. I take her word and the FBI, that they were mostly personal, had no national security breaches.

But a mountain was made of it, despite those like Sanders pleading for the public to not be diverted by this non-story.

Ironically that stance did little to stem the same treatment against himself for what I consider, IMO, another manufactured "scandal", in the bigger picture. But I do agree, that because he has promised to release them, that he must. We will see, he's promised to very soon.

[MH1]

19. Geez louise!! The whole Dem party is calling for Trump to release his tax returns!!

We nominate - or even show substantial support - for someone who won't release his own??

That is not remotely close to the situation with Hillary's emails.

Her not releasing the emails may or may not have hurt her. But it was the first time for that situation.

We have expected presidential candidates to release their tax returns for years, if not forever. Bernie promised to and then refused. Trump always refused.

Why is Bernie acting more like TRUMP on this issue - TAX RETURNS, NOT EMAILS!! - than a Democrat???

[LiberalLovinLug]

24. So releasing tax returns is the most important requirement for you as a candidate?

Once again, Sanders said he would soon. If he still hasn't in the next month, then you can go at him in a second wave. I'll also be very disappointing if he doesn't and may join you.

But you are implying that the biggest issue you have with Donald Trump is not his lying, his racism, his xenophobia, his sexual abusing, all the many bills that dismantle progress made by Obama, including the ACA. The appointing of industry execs to destroy the institutions they now head. Etc etc etc......ad nausea. but that he did not release his tax returns?

Perhaps, perhaps, we will find something untoward by looking at Trumps taxes, and we should strive to get them, but isn't it more important to look at the horrible actions he has taken in broad daylight that we know about already? I'm almost certain you did not NOT vote for Trump because he didn't release his tax returns.

In a converse way, isn't it more important to define the actions of Sanders outside of his tax returns as well? Like he and Harris' sponsoring of the Medicare-For-All bill? Or other good work he has done through the decades working with the Democratic party?

Tax Returns for me at least, are not the #1 arbitrator of deciding to vote or not vote for Trump, or anyone else. But the fact that Bernie has promised (as Trump did) to release his tax returns, I expect him to follow through (unlike Trump). Our side always has a higher bar to reach.

[MH1]

25. "But you are implying ..." WTF, I implied no such thing. STOP SMEARING ME.

NO WHAT I SAID IS THAT SANDERS IS ACTING LIKE TRUMP ON THIS ISSUE - TAX RETURNS.

How you get all that other bullshit, I have no idea.

If Bernie does release on the 15th, it becomes another story. I highly doubt that he will. Also, he promised to release them before, and did not.

FWIW, the most important thing to me is that the person is credibly dedicated to improving this country and has a credible platform to do that, and a credible chance at actually winning the election. For me, this year, Bernie fails on all 3.

[LiberalLovinLug]

32. You just seem so bent out of shape on this one issue.

Like its the most important thing when examining a candidate for your support.

I also find it quite distasteful, and a stretch, to put Sanders, or any of our candidates, and Trump as being the same on any issue. I could say that Hillary not releasing those emails, she was acting like Cheney, who also destroyed thousands of emails. But why? I'm not going to do that. And I never did when I could have. I understand its only natural when fighting for your choice of candidate to win, you look for faults in the other ones, I just think maybe criticize their record, their work, rather than conjecture about finding some evil doing by looking at their tax returns, which he will do soon, and equating his behaviour to Trump himself, is disingenuous, distracting and stokes infighting for nothing.

[BlueFlorida]

36. Hillary's emails was a made up scandal

which she did not create but republican machine did. Hillary had no control over them and she turned her entire server over to the FBI.

Bernie's tax returns are under Bernie's complete and total control. He can release them in minutes. Yet, he is stalling.

Your statement at best indicates a misunderstanding of the two issues and at worst, a deliberate and purposeful attempt to protect Bernie from the negative publicity about his returns.

If I were a Bernie supporter, I'd be screaming from rooftops and sending emails, faxes and letters to have him release his returns to stop the hemorrhaging. I would not try to defend him because it will not make the issue go away.

The only way the issue will go away is if Bernie releases the returns, explains why he was stalling and puts up a rigorous defense of the negative information that those returns contains.

[LiberalLovinLug]

40. Yes it was. And what scandal is Bernie involved in?

I haven't seen any indictments against him. He said he would have released them if he'd won last time. And he promises to release them if he runs this time. You don't like the foot dragging, fine. But its hardly a hill to stand on when deciding who to vote for is my point. Maybe it is for you, that's up to you I guess.

And damn rights I will defend ANY Democratic candidate from negative publicity, especially overblown manufactured concern, by those that want to use some low hanging fruit to hurt any of them!

[BlueFlorida]

42. His returns were needed BEFORE he won

for the voters to evaluate his finances.

Releasing them AFTER winning is like saying, "I'd have gotten a driver's license if I had gotten in an accident."

How were the primary voters supposed to know if his rhetoric matched his tax returns? What if he had donated to the KKK or invested heavily in a fracking or oil drilling enterprise? What if he had large investments in gun manufacturers? What if he was actually a multimillionaire who used tax loopholes to avoid paying taxes?

These are important questions and those who don't blindly follow any candidate want to know the answers NOW -- not if he wins.

[LiberalLovinLug]

43. So if Sanders had been our candidate last time, and did not release them,

even though he promised he would, and even though I believe he would have, but for the sake of argument, IF he had not, in that hypothetical situation, that would have been enough of a reason for you to have stayed home and not voted Democratic?

I'm just trying to gauge just how serious you take this. What if in some mutual fund he had investments in a gun manufacturer? Would that be enough to not vote for him? What exactly could they hove found to make you have stayed home last time because he and Trump were just so darned similar?

I'm not saying I would liked it either if that happened, but I'd prefer him than the other tax return avoider. And I'm not saying I like that he has foot dragged on this. But you really think he is hiding some big dark secret like you listed? Someone who worked for so much good in his life, is hiding these dark secrets? We will find out soon, don't worry. Unlike Republicans, Democrats remember that he has promised and I believe they will hold him to that much more fiercely this time.

[BlueFlorida]

45. I'd vote for a dead rat against Trump

That is not the point.

The point is that Sanders needs to inform the American people and put his money where his mouth is about transparency.

[LiberalLovinLug]

47. And he will soon. Give him the end of the month.

If this is such a huge deal to you, then I gather we will hear a big apology from you if there is nothing of significance to see once he does. After your state of shock wears off.

If he is hiding tax fraud, or yuuuuuuge investments in death industries, I will commit to apologizing and not supporting him anymore.

[LongtimeAZDem]

57. You don't get it; it doesn't matter now. If he was a man of his word, he would have done it already

Since he hasn't, he isn't, and nobody will owe him an apology if and when he ever gets around to it.

[BlueFlorida]

59. Please start practising your apology. nt

[Cha]

49. There will be no "apology" from me if and when

BS releases his Full Tax Returns. For Full Transparency that he's always pushing on others.

He brought this on himself by.. by saying he would release them "soon" in Feb.

Bernie Sanders Still Dragging His Feet on Releasing His Tax Returns

In February, Sanders said he’d release a decade of past returns “sooner rather than later.” More recently, he somewhat vaguely pointed to the April 15 federal tax filing deadline and said he’d release the old returns “very shortly” after that.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/04/sanders-still-dragging-his-feet-on-releasing-his-tax-returns.html

I will say.. "it's about bloody time".

[Politicub]

16. He. Said. He. Would. Release. Them.

That’s the point.

If he follows through it would put the issue to bed.

[LiberalLovinLug]

17. Yes, that is a good point.

I guess we have to wait and see then

[dogman]

30. He said around April 15, that's a week away.

But if everyone wants to holler "taxes" for a week, have at it.

[LongtimeAZDem]

39. No he didn't; he just said "very shortly". Again

[MrsCoffee]

44. Lol, he's been singing that tune for years though.

And as has been pointed out, he wouldn't actually commit to April 15th.

[dogman]

55. He released his 2014 return when he anounced in 2015.

He went no further because he was out of the running. H says he will release 10 years so you can see everything you missed.

[KitSileya]

62. No he didn't.

He had to be shamed into releasing 2014, end even then he initially only released what amounted to the book covers, 2 pages. After further shaming, he released another 7 pages. For comparison, Senator Klobuchar's tax returns from the same year, where she earned approximately the same as Senator Sanders, was 68 pages long. In other words, he didn't release his full 2014 returns, and while he promised to release another 9 years, he reneged on his promise. He said he would release his tax returns and he didn't - he lied in 2016. That coupled with his iffy history of FEC filings mean that we have no clear picture of where he gets his money personally or in campaign donations. That is very worrisome for someone who had a Putin stooge for campaign manager.

[LiberalLovinLug]

46. TAXES TAXES TAXES TAXES TAXES TAXES TAXES TAXES TAXES TAXES TAXES TAXES TAXES TAXES TAXES !!!

I feel better already.

[namahage]

48. He never said that.

And apparently now it's AFTER April 15.

That puts Sanders on markedly different footing than during his first White House run, creating new challenges for a candidate whose supporters relish his role as an underdog and an outsider. He now carries the weight of high expectations and will face heightened scrutiny over everything from the cost and feasibility of his government-funded policy proposals to his tax returns, which he has not yet released. He initially blamed “mechanical issues” for the delay, and his campaign now says he wants to wait until after the April 15 tax filing deadline to fulfill his promise to release a decade worth of returns.

[dogman]

54. After-Around. I said a week, It is now the 8th.

1 week would be the 15th.

[LuvLoogie]

56. It takes a while to "revise" 10 years of returns.

Remember how Mitt did that retroactive, time-travel whoop-dee-doo with his financials?

[MrsCoffee]

58. +1

[GemDigger]

33. He said that before and did NOT. That is the point.

If he doesn't before the nomination he will have taken away our choice of vote for his shady reasons. This was his reasoning.

His quote last week: "I didn't end up doing it because I didn't win the nomination, if we had won the nomination we would have".

That means after the fact, after our choice is gone.

[BlueFlorida]

37. He said "soon"

"soon" has come and gone

[SidDithers]

20. Has The Intercept hired HA Goodman yet?...nt

Sid

[nycbos]

28. ?

[BlueFlorida]

38. Hahahahahahaha Goodman

may become Bernie's communications director .... considering David Sirota, Nina Turner, Brihana Gray and Cornel West are all in top positions in the campaign.

[Blue_true]

60. Sanders repeatedly made an issue of Hillary not releasing her paid speech transcripts.

His implication was that her not doing so lacked transparency. The implication was that she was hiding promised made to the organizations that paid her to speak.

Now the shoe is on Bernie's feet with things like his tax returns and minutes of the meeting that he had with victims of sexual harrassment and violence in his 2016 campaign.

The main issue that I have with Bernie on the tax return issue is that he demands transparency of others that he is unwilling to practice. Someone said that he don't want people knowing his wealth, the same likely is the case with every other candidate running for our party's nomination.

[trueblue2007]

21. in answer to your question, Longtime .... He can't.

[Dazbog]

31. Hes releasing it a week from today

Tax Day, April 15th

[LongtimeAZDem]

34. Where did you hear that? On the Daily Show he only said "very shortly"

"Look, um... April 15th is coming. That will be the 10th year and we make them all public very shortly."

Regardless, he's had three years to keep his word, and hasn't done it. Even if he released them today, he's still failed to keep his word.

[namahage]

50. Not according to his campaign.

https://www.apnews.com/ea9454ea29a246a59b97e731bac16aa2

That puts Sanders on markedly different footing than during his first White House run, creating new challenges for a candidate whose supporters relish his role as an underdog and an outsider. He now carries the weight of high expectations and will face heightened scrutiny over everything from the cost and feasibility of his government-funded policy proposals to his tax returns, which he has not yet released. He initially blamed “mechanical issues” for the delay, and his campaign now says he wants to wait until after the April 15 tax filing deadline to fulfill his promise to release a decade worth of returns.

So NOW when? "Soon" afterward?

[Cha]

35. BS brought this scrutiny on himself.

He said he was going to release them "soon" in Feb. He shouldn't have said that if he had no intention of doing it.

[sheshe2]

52. Yep.

[sheshe2]

53. Kick

Recommend

[Gothmog]

61. Release the tax returns

Link to tweet

?s=20

[Maru Kitteh]

63. He is roundly and rightly being compared to Trump now

On the matter of his taxes.