"If you open the borders, you have people from Vietnam, China, Mexico, and Latin America coming in"

[RandySF]

[Voltaire2]

1. Do you support open borders?

[lapucelle]

5. It's not about open borders. It's about an attitude towards immigrants in general.

Bernie Sanders Says U.S. Can't Have 'Open Borders' Because Poor People Will Come 'From All Over the World'

“Oh my god, there’s a lot of poverty in this world, and you’re going to have people from all over the world. And I don’t think that’s something that we can do at this point. Can’t do it,” the senator added.

https://www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-open-borders-poverty-world-immigration-1388767

[Voltaire2]

7. Lulzd.

So, do you support open borders?

[lapucelle]

8. It's not about borders. It's about an attitude towards immigrants in general.

Bernie Sanders Says U.S. Can't Have 'Open Borders' Because Poor People Will Come 'From All Over the World'

“Oh my god, there’s a lot of poverty in this world, and you’re going to have people from all over the world. And I don’t think that’s something that we can do at this point. Can’t do it,” the senator added.

[Voltaire2]

9. So do you support open borders?

[Cha]

10. Can't address your concern so he keeps

repeating the question over and over and over again.

Link to tweet

".. poor people will come.."!

[lapucelle]

13. Yes I know. And some people find BS's attitude toward the impoverished would-be immigrant funny.

Who lulzes at the thought of hopeful immigrants hearing a politician say, "The country is full. Can't do it".

[Cha]

15. Anyone who really

doesn't care.

[namahage]

16. Thought experiment.

If Bernie were president in 1921, would he be against his father coming in to escape "crushing poverty"?

[lapucelle]

38. Would such an immigrant improve our economy?

Some appear to think that utility to our economy is a prerequisite.

Not THEM...(what's in it for)...US.

[Tom Rinaldo]

49. All immigration improves our economy

It is quite literally and historically what made America great. That is our message, and it happens to be true. There is no false dichotomy between "them" and "us". Immigrants past present and future are woven into the fabric of our nation and we are all strengthened because of it.

Most Americans understand that message. It isn't a litmus test given to this or that individual immigrant, as in "will this individual immediately help our economy?" It is a collective understanding, in some ways unique to the American experience, that immigration is an asset to America (and yes that is an economic term). History has shown that often it is the poorest of immigrants who ultimately make the greatest contributions to American prosperity.

[lapucelle]

55. Lectures are better addressed to those who who see immigrants in terms of utility and nothing more.

Fans will sometimes do their best to explain what politicians "really meant" when the actual words the politician said reveal too much about the values embraced..

[Tom Rinaldo]

34. I addressed it in post #32

As Freud is said to once say "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar", and sometimes opposing OPEN borders is just opposing OPEN borders.

Go ahead some time and try asking Nancy Pelosi, or Kamala Harris, or Joe Biden, or Barack Obama whether they support OPEN borders. ALL of them oppose mass unregulated economic migration to the United States. Obama actually deported more undocumented persons from our country than any of the Republicans who preceded him.

Democrats championed the lottery immigration system which attempted to provide a more level playing field offering equal opportunities to people from all around the world rather than those from just a few favored nations. Democrats also support admitting legitimate refugees fleeing war and oppression. Democrats however have NEVER favored "Open Borders".

Here is what Democrats favor, articulated this time in the words of Bernie Sanders spoken immediately after the snippet highlighted in the OP"

"the strength of our nation is in fact the diversity and the new ideas that immigrants from all walks of life have given this country, so you need a rational non racist immigration policy which welcomes people in from all over the world to improve our economy, but clearly you can not have open borders."

[lapucelle]

39. Are other Democrats articulating the idea that utility to our economy

is a criterion for allowing people to immigrate?

[We] welcome people in from all over the world to improve our economy.

What about those who wish to come to the US in order to "escape crushing poverty"? Are they still welcome even though it is likely that they won't improve our economy?

I don't think that's what Democrats favor.

From our 2016 platform:

The Democratic Party supports legal immigration, within reasonable limits, that meets the needs of
families, communities, and the economy as well as maintains the United States’ role as a beacon of hope for
people seeking safety, freedom, and security.

snip===============================================

The world is experiencing a major refugee crisis with more than 60 million people displaced as a result of conflicts in the Middle East, Africa, and Eastern Europe. We support President Obama’s call for an international summit to address this crisis so that every country assumes its responsibility to meet this humanitarian challenge. While Donald Trump proposes banning Muslim refugees, we will look for ways to help innocent people who are fleeing persecution while ensuring rigorous screening and vetting.

[Tom Rinaldo]

44. Look at your own quotes again

"The Democratic Party supports legal immigration, within reasonable limits, that meets the needs of
families, communities, and the economy as well as maintains the United States’ role as a beacon of hope..."

Obviously the highlighting is my own. The Democratic Party is my Party but it can't do anything out of power. The DNC platform rejects the false premise that immigration does not help our economy. It specifically supports immigration that meets the needs of the economy. That is now, and has been for many decades, how Democrats frame the issue of immigration. Immigration contributes to the American economy. It strengthens the American economy. It helps the American economy grow. and even the poorest of immigrants ultimately help the American economy grow.

Your second bloc quote is not about immigration in general but rather about the refugee crisis, and it speaks to the traditional criteria by which international law recognizes the rights of refugees. That is "a result of conflicts in the Middle East, Africa, and Eastern Europe" and "help innocent people who are fleeing persecution" Generalized poverty is not cited.

Do we Democrats WANT to lose elections? Donald Trump wants Democrats to accept the framing of issues exactly how he chooses to frame them, and that is to make Democrats out to be either super naive bleeding heart liberals who will hand over the whole country to the next pan handler with a scam who they see on the street, or else driven by a cynical manipulation of changing demographics in the raw pursuit of power, by letting in as many non white soon to be voters as possible as soon as possible by totally "opening up" our borders to people here to "steal our jobs".

It is the Democratic position that immigration "improves our economy." That is how we defend it. All of it, including those immigrants who arrive with just the shirts on their backs. That is the most effective comeback to anti-immigrant xenophobes who want to keep immigrants out of America, and it always has been. Whether we talk about immigrants who work hard at essential jobs that few Americans are drawn to doing, such as migrant farm work, or whether we talk about the historically proven entrepreneurial talent track record of immigrants to America, it always centers on how immigration helps America grow and prosper, and then means improving our economy. The difference between the Republican and Democratic world view is that Republicans argue that only immigrants with highly specific advanced work skills and/or preexisting wealth help our economy grow. Democrats argue in response that immigrants of all economic backgrounds help our economy grow.

We welcome the immigrant spirit that evidences in new arrivals working two jobs at minimum wages if necessary in order to provide a better life for their children. We do not argue that poor immigrants have nothing to offer America other than their poverty. And all of this is separate from the issue of refugees. Democrats embrace offering refuge to those who are fleeing war and oppression, no matter how poor they may be. AND we site statistics and studies that show how well refugees ultimately integrate into our economy and "help it grow".

[lapucelle]

45. I'm familar with our platform.

Here's our platform:

"...meets the needs of families, communities, and the economy, as well as maintains the United States’ role as a beacon of hope for people seeking safety, freedom, and security."

That's a far cry from:

"welcomes people in from all over the world to improve our economy"

[Tom Rinaldo]

46. Well you seemed to ignore that our platform notes the needs of our economy regarding immigration

"the strength of our nation is in fact the diversity and the new ideas that immigrants from all walks of life have given this country"

That is a pro Immigrant message from Sanders. All walks of live includes rich and poor. They are all welcomed because all of them strengthen our nation. Immigration is what helped build America, and it still does. Classic American Dream. Positive framing counters negative framing and helps us win elections.

[lapucelle]

47. There is no prerequisite to "improve our economy" in our Democratic platform,

and absolutely no mention of the equally important mandate of "maintaining the US role as a beacon of hope for people seeking safety, freedom, and security" from the candidate seeking office.

These are differences with distinctions. I take the candidate at his word.

[Tom Rinaldo]

32. No, it is ALL about "open borders", and not falling into the right wing's ambush

Last edited Tue Apr 9, 2019, 09:58 AM - Edit history (1)

Trump campaigns on accusing Democrats of supporting "Open Borders". What does "Open Borders" literally mean? In Trump world it literally means our borders should be unregulated and unprotected so that anyone who thinks they can do a little better living in America than they do in their country of origin can just stroll right across our border and set up residency here.

The Right points to the poverty that afflicts billions of people world wide and says, if Democrats get their way all of those people can and will try to make their way to America to steal American jobs and/or go on Welfare, by just waltzing across our border. THAT is how Republicans describe what Democrats stand for on immigration and refugees. It is nonsense of course but it has to be confronted head on and directly called out as nonsense.

Democrats stand for a fair and rational immigration policy that is welcoming to people of all races and nationalities and not slanted toward favoritism to those of certain ethnic and racial backgrounds only. Democrats proclaim the benefits of controlled immigration to our nation rather than describe is as a literal threat to our nation. Democrats also believe in our international obligation to offer refuge to those arriving at our nation fleeing war and persecution THAT is the Democratic position. We can not allow Republicans to brand Democrats opposition to Trump's immigration and refugee policies as "favoring open borders."

If that video in the OP is allowed to run a few seconds longer Sanders goes on to say:

"the strength of our nation is in fact the diversity and the new ideas that immigrants from all walks of life have given this country, so you need a rational non racist immigration policy which welcomes people in from all over the world to improve our economy, but clearly you can not have open borders."

[lapucelle]

36. "...policy which welcomes people from all over the world TO IMPROVE OUR ECONOMY..."

"What's in it for US from THEM"

[Demsrule86]

40. 'Improve our an economy' is the give away...it makes me sick to hear such words

from someone running for the Democratic nomination. This helps Trump implement his cruel policies. It gives him cover...disgusting.

[Tom Rinaldo]

43. It is the Democratic position that immigration "improves our economy."

That is the most effective comeback to anti-immigrant xenophobes who want to keep immigrants out of America, and it always has been. Whether we talk about immigrants who work hard at essential jobs that few Americans are drawn to doing, such as migrant farm work, or whether we talk about the historically proven entrepreneurial talent track record of immigrants to America, it always centers on how immigration helps America grow and prosper, and then means improving our economy. The difference between the Republican and Democratic world view is that Republicans argue that only immigrants with highly specific advanced work skills and/or preexisting wealth help our economy grow. Democrats argue in response that immigrants of all economic backgrounds help our economy grow.

We welcome the immigrant spirit that evidences in new arrivals working two jobs at minimum wages if necessary in order to provide a better life for their children. We do not argue that poor immigrants have nothing to offer America other than their poverty. And all of this is separate from the issue of refugees. Democrats embrace offering refuge to those who are fleeing war and oppression, no matter how poor they may be. AND we site statistics and studies that show how well refugees ultimately integrate into our economy and "help it grow".

[Demsrule86]

56. No he says admit those who are not poor...immigrants need to provide economic value

to come here

[Tom Rinaldo]

57. Got a quote of Sanders saying "admit those who are not poor" ? A link?

Thanks in advance.

[qwlauren35]

11. Yes.

Definitely more open then they have been with this administration.

[MyNameGoesHere]

29. Open borders is the extreme Nationalist talking point for

Immigration issues. So do you support closed borders? That's the other end of the extreme.
I do support open borders. I don't want to be a prisoner to arbitrary lines drawn on a map. It's funny how folks of European ancestry now want to put the brakes on migration. They didn't seem worried about conquering other cultures to help with their migratory aspersions. But in typical white privilege, I got mine fuck you.

[Thomas Hurt]

2. Why is Sanders parrotting Trump's fascist newspeak?

[dalton99a]

20. Fascist and racist.

[RandySF]

25. I think it's a blind spot more than ill intention

But still a glaring spot.

[Tom Rinaldo]

31. Except that he isn't

Watch the interview rather than one quote ripped out of context:

"the strength of our nation is in fact the diversity and the new ideas that immigrants from all walks of life have given this country, so you need a rational non racist immigration policy which welcomes people in from all over the world to improve our economy, but clearly you can not have open borders."

That an't Trump talking

[lapucelle]

37. If they can serve the purpose of "IMPROV[ING] OUR ECONOMY", they're welcome.

How enlightened.

[lapucelle]

3. When was that taped? N/T

[RandySF]

6. Last week.

[Me.]

4. Stunning

Talk about white fear

[BlueFlorida]

12. Oh. My. God.

[lapucelle]

14. Look at him lulzing away with Trevor Noah. N/T

[Autumn]

17. I know right! Why the hell is Trevor Noah allowing Bernie to be on The Daily Show!!!

I'm never watching that show again! Trevor Noah lulzing away with Bernie.

[Cha]

19. No thanks.. I'd rather

do practically anything else.

[dalton99a]

18. Poland: White (like the venerated saint). Vietnam, China, Mexico, Latin America: Nonwhite riffraff

Pretty nice dog whistle there

[Cha]

22. Ikr.. Could it be anymore loud?

[Blue_true]

21. He is right in that regard, but.

Is that a bad thing for our country if we had an immigration system that allowed them to come here to do work Americans won't do as long as they went back home knowing that they could return? Economically such a policy would be beneficial for us and workers in China, Mexico and Latin America. They could follow the seasons for year around work and we could get work done in daylight that we only get done because people slip across the border.

[lunamagica]

23. He said that? The thing that amazes me is how many won't have a problem with it.

[John Fante]

27. I'm not surprised at all.

I think a large number of the Bernie or Bust crowd is indifferent to Trump's bigotry...and that's putting it mildly. It's this indifference that allowed them to smugly vote for Jill Stein in the 2016 election. It's why they spend 99% of their time bashing Democrats while paying little attention to Trump's human rights abuses. They simply don't care about minorities.

[Demsrule86]

41. I agree. And his words are meant for them and the Trump supporters he needs...I would not vote for

Sanders in a primary for any reason, sure a general. But if he is the nominee I think we lose the general.

[comradebillyboy]

24. That's not a bad thing. I think we need a lot more immigration.

[betsuni]

26. Those countries have delicious cuisines.

[RandySF]

28. And all are represented in my son's school.

[WeekiWater]

30. He is going after the "economic anxiety" crowd.

Otherwise known as his base.

[Skidmore]

33. Interesting twist to

racist remarks after just checking in with Sharpton. Who is worthy in Sanders' America?

[dalton99a]

35. Revolutionaries who believe and contribute.

[Demsrule86]

42. People who agree with him,

[Stuart G]

48. Back in 1910 we had open borders. That is when my grandparents came in from Russia.

They closed them in 1924, with that year"s emigration act. Why pass that act?..Lots of reasons..But one of them was to blame immigrants with causing WWI. (NO! immigrants did not cause WWI) Lots of hate to the foreigners. Other reasons too. They caused "problems", different neighborhoods, language..etc.
...The people who came from Russia in 1910 had children and their children (born here) assimilated into the population, and they had children.. ....well that is me. I like living in the U.S.A. Some nice people, and some not so nice.

[Skidmore]

50. Bottom line is that nearly all Americans

are or are descendants of immigrants, including Sanders. It appears to be a fact that's escaped him as he seems willing to roll up the welcome mat for some.

[Tom Rinaldo]

52. Well if it escaped Sanders, it also escaped FDR, JFK, LBJ, Carter, Clinton and Obama

None of the above Democratic Presidents favored a completely open border and an extended welcome mat for any and all people who made it to this country to simply set up residence here without to worry about their immigration status.

Are you suggesting that America's immigration laws now should revert to what they were in 1921 which you spoke about above? I don't recall that being a feature of any of the immigration reform packages Democrats have voted for in the last 75 years.

But of course it does not escape Sanders. He brought up his own family's immigrant history at the very start of the interview. And the national Democratic Party does not support "open borders" now either. As pointed out by a poser above our 2016 platform say

"The Democratic Party supports legal immigration, within reasonable limits, that meets the needs of
families, communities, and the economy as well as maintains the United States’ role as a beacon of hope for
people seeking safety, freedom, and security."

It covers immigration in the first clause, and a willingness to accept valid refugees in the second. It does not lay out a welcome mat for anyone anywhere who wants in to just show up here and make this their home by simply taking up residence upon unchecked arrival.

[DBoon]

51. I live in Los Angeles

Don't see what the big deal is about "people from Vietnam, China, Mexico, and Latin America coming in"

We already have that and are doing very well

[Tom Rinaldo]

53. The reference is to the potential for economic mass migration

from anyone anywhere who would like to escape poverty. No elected Democrat argues for unchecked immigration. If America's policy was simply to automatically legally assimilate anyone who managed to get here by foot, boat, bike, car or plane, we would experience a massive economic migration from poorer regions of the world to here. Right now many people pay thousands to "Coyotes" to help smuggle them into America with no guarantee that they can stay here. What would occur if anyone could simply move to America and legally stay just by paying for a commercial air flight seat and landing in any one of our airports.

Trump is trying to say that Democrats want "Open Borders" with no entry restrictions. If we don't counter that with reality his message ends up being the one sticking.

Democrats favor an immigration system that includes "a lottery" to make sure that immigration access is possible from all parts of the world including Vietnam, China, Mexico, Africa, Latin America etc. We do not seek to discriminate by country of origin. Trump and Republicans are the ones who want to only let in the rich and highly skilled. But yes, Democrats do favor putting overall limits on the number of immigrants we absorb each year.

[KitSileya]

54. The problem with closing the borders is that soon they'd be closed both ways.

First they stop people from coming in, and then they stop people from going out. Senator Sanders should also be grateful that the men in his position in the 1920s didn't stop his father from coming in - Jews were seen as on par with how the Vietnamese, Chinese, Mexican, and Latin American immigrants are seen now. Fifteen to twenty years later those of his family who stayed behind didn't meet open borders going out of their own country and coming into the US as his own direct ancestors did, and they perished because the people in power saw them as animals, cockroaches, vermin. Senator Sanders should thank his predecessors for allowing open borders and immigration even of the poor and marginalized - otherwise he would never have existed. Most likely his grandparents and parents would have died before he could be born, or he himself would have ended up in the gas chamber.

How much poorer would the political landscape of the US would be if the Sanders family hadn't met open borders is up to the supporters of the Senator to decide. But they and he should be careful not to tend towards the hypocritical.