What's your least favorite "reason" we're down to two men as usual?

[Sparkly]

This is a poll about each and every woman who has run for president at least in my lifetime -- from Shirley Chisholm to Hillary Clinton to our most recent loss, Elizabeth Warren.

Which of these rationales (excuses) for why any woman/women didn't go further is the most annoying to you?

(Before you answer, let's remember that every male candidate who has ever run has had flaws as candidates, has posed risks for winning, and has had weaknesses in their campaigns.)

24 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Unlimited
	I want to see a woman as president, just not that woman. The right woman hasn't come along yet.
	1 (4%)
	She ran a terrible campaign. If only she'd have had better judgment, she could have won.
	4 (17%)
	I can't stand the sound of her voice (and/or her laugh). It's so shrill!
	0 (0%)
	She's just a really flawed candidate. She carries so much baggage and/or her policies are divisive.
	1 (4%)
	I would love a woman to be president, but the country isn't ready. She's unelectable and we have to win.
	8 (33%)
	Everybody knows that nobody likes her. She's just so unlikeable. The entire country hates her.
	0 (0%)
	She's fake, inauthentic. She goes out of her way to invite us into her life and it's still fake.
	0 (0%)
	She's intellectual and has plans, but she lectures and scolds. It comes off as finger-wagging.
	2 (8%)
	She's uninspiring and doesn't have any charisma. We need someone who can get people excited to vote.
	1 (4%)
	Other (post)
	7 (29%)
	1 DU member did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[Xipe Totec]

1. Because women keep voting for men nt

[HarlanPepper]

15. This is the conversation that dominated my house during this campaign

I told my wife in October I thought Warren will be the next POTUS. She, still crushed about Hillary and 2016, laughed me out of the room even though she loves Elizabeth Warren, Kamala and Hillary.


I can’t blame her for feeling that way, but I think it’s a mistake to assign all of the blame to men. Trump did well with white women in 2016. My mom who grew up in the corporate world as an executive dealing with all sorts of creepy corporate men loves Trump and hates feminism. Women aren’t monolithic in their voting.

[Sparkly]

19. I am not blaming men alone for the voting.

I think women still don't know or trust our own power, for some reason. Even after the Women's March, #MeToo, 2018 elections -- we could get out the vote for 2020 -- the centennial of our voting rights, but instead we're shying away again. The most we can hope for is a VP.

[HarlanPepper]

20. I know, sorry to give that impression. I should have been clearer..

[HarlanPepper]

22. To your point about knowing their own power

That’s very astute.

In 2016 my then 6 year old niece asked me “Will I be allowed to be president some day even though I’m a girl?”

Ugh. This is sad on its own but the word “allowed” really struck me. I assured her that she could be president someday, and that I would vote for her. But clearly even at that age they (girls) KNOW what they are up against on some level however abstract. Makes me tear up just thinking about it again.

[Kaleva]

28. I find the Super Tuesday exit polling showing that Biden & Sanders each did better with women ...

voters then Warren did interesting.

[Sparkly]

31. It's clear that happened from the results.

[Kaleva]

33. I wrote an OP talking about Warren's problem with female voters.

[Sparkly]

34. What were their problems with her?

[Kaleva]

36. The exit polls don't say why more women voted for Biden and Sanders each then for her

Looking at the percentages and doing some guesswork, I think if Warren had gotten about the same percentage of the female vote as Biden and Sanders did in the contests so far, she'd still be a contender.

[Sparkly]

37. Yup. Choose an excuse above. nm

[Kaleva]

39. I cannot speak for the women who preferred Biden or Sanders over Warren.

But if I were to vote, I'd have to select "did not wish to select any of the options provided." as the only thing I care about this election is defeating Trump and it looks like Biden is the candidate that can best do that. If Warren had been able to click with Democrats this primary and she looked strong to take down Trump, I'd gladly be cheering her on.

[Sparkly]

41. You miss the point.

Why did she not "click" -- nor Klobuchar, Harris, even Hillary Clinton to the end -- or why was she not considered equally strong? That is the question. There is always an excuse of a reason, but never a real one.

[Kaleva]

68. It might be beneficial for someone to study why women went to Biden and Sanders instead of Warren.

Warren did especially poor with minorities. Both female and male.

[Demsrule86]

62. I clicked on other for that very reason...I though Biden had a better chance in the blue wall states

and I always liked him. She was my number two...I like Amy also...but this year we must get rid of Trump.

[Sparkly]

64. I wasn't asking for your reason re: Warren, I was asking about annoying reasons re: women in general

.... sigh.... I give up.

[Kaleva]

69. Are you asking what annoying reasons women may give for not voting for Warren?

[Kaleva]

70. I think the desire to get rid of Trump was paramount for many.

Regardless of races, sex, age, income and so on. People may thing that Biden has the best chance, of all the candidates, to do so.

[LisaM]

2. They all strike a chord...

but the "bad campaign" one - for women whose inspiring campaign events I've attended - hit home the most.

[Sparkly]

3. For me, that goes to the "uninspiring" and "nobody likes" categories, too. nm

[dansolo]

10. Strategically, she did run a bad campaign

She tied herself too closely to Bernie. She was stuck arguing for his ideas, not her own.

[LisaM]

11. We'll have to agree to disagree on that. n/t

[Sparkly]

17. I disagree.

She worked to distinguish herself, without contradicting any of her life's work. She wasn't the one who blurred her platform with Bernie's. They overlapped on a few broad issues.

(If he had a moral bone in his body, frankly, the right thing for him to do would have been to champion her and get out of the way. Just my humble opinion.)

[gulliver]

4. Wait, we had a woman at the head of the ticket last time.

And a black male President for eight years before that. What's this "usual" stuff?

[Sparkly]

7. I am talking specifically about WOMEN.

It happened once, and one of the most qualified candidates in history lost to her direct opposite, even when she won.

Yeah, the "usual" is that women are more qualified, and for some bogus excuses, they end up losing. Sorry that I'm a little steamed right now.

[Laelth]

5. AOC endorsed Bernie instead.

My favorite female candidate had serious momentum in September of last year. After the AOC endorsement, she was crowded out of the left lane by Bernie.



-Laelth

[Sparkly]

9. Do you think AOC is that powerful?

[Laelth]

13. I just know what the polls told me.

After the AOC endorsement, Bernie went up, and Elizabeth went down. I will let you draw your own conclusions.



-Laelth

[Sparkly]

35. That corresponded with other events as well, I think.

[Demsrule86]

6. I picked other. The reason I was a Biden supporter is that he was the best to take the three states

we needed...MI, WI, and PA. Nothing to do with being a woman or a man.

[Sparkly]

8. Just a question

Why did you think, even after his debate performances, that he would be more electable than other candidates (I'm asking here about women like Warren and Klobuchar in particular) in those states?

[Demsrule86]

21. He was born in PA...also, I saw how he was in Ohio in 08 and 12...He can deliver the Midwest in 20

as he did for Obama in 08 and 12. Hell Ohio may be in play ultimately. As for debates, I don't put much stock in them...and I have a son with a stammering problem so I know a debate with seven or eight people is very tough for those who stammer. If you look back, my posts mostly consisted of maps showing the blue wall states...without which Trump wins and EC win. I did go through a time when I questioned whether any woman could win...but I decided that as a Warren supporter pointed out to me that Hillary did win...she was just cheated ultimately. If we don't rebuild the blue we will lose every presidential election going forward unless we open up new states which could take years.

[Sparkly]

25. So, "electability."

At this point we can only hope.

[Demsrule86]

30. I would add that I have always liked Biden... I was happy to support him...but much as I like him,

I was prepared to vote Bloomberg if Biden faltered...for me it is all about getting Trump out. I like Warren a great deal...she was my second choice before Bloomberg...

[stopbush]

12. Other: misogyny.

If true, how did Hillary win?

[Sparkly]

14. She won the nomination DESPITE misogyny.

I'm asking about the excuses used to explain why women don't make it all the way, if it isn't plain and simple sexism (if not outright misogyny).

For example: the rationales for why she didn't win the presidency.

[BusyBeingBest]

16. This feels like a trap.

[Sparkly]

18. Why?

[zackymilly]

23. Bernie said a woman can't win. n/t

[Sparkly]

26. Then he denied saying it

basically calling Elizabeth Warren a liar on national television, as she said.

[Moderateguy]

24. Every candidate has problems...

Warren dug her own grave when she refused to highlight her differences with Sanders in policies until it was too late...

Amy’s just an angry person and like with Bernie anger doesn’t attract voters

[Sparkly]

27. That doesn't answer my question.

Warren did highlight the differences between herself and Sanders on policy. If they seemed the same, how is it that the same policies have been successful for Bernie and not for her?

Same for Amy. If she and Bernie are both "angry," it does seem to work for him. I wonder why it doesn't work for her?

[Moderateguy]

32. Misogyny

No one can discount that as a factor.

As for Warren, she needed to worry more about Sanders than Bloomberg in the debates. The progressives have all but crowned Bernie their leader when there are other more suitable progressive voices that should lead. I really don’t know who or what made her go after Bloomberg. She must have known that it would benefit Biden much more than her. She needed to starkly highlight how she was in a much better position to achieve progressive goals than Bernie can ever be right from the start.

[Hortensis]

29. Two men and one woman, and my LEAST favorite reason

is that it's down to VP Biden and the two candidates, out of over 25!, that our intelligence services report, and/or clear repetitive patterns of assistance, indicate that Russia regards as assets in their plot to reelect Trump.

Just occurred to me a little while ago. We live in interesting times...

[beachbumbob]

38. first step is to understand what is our voting BASE and I tell you it is not liberal

as much as the our liberals and progressive wish it to be, it is NOT. So any of our candidates needs to have real centrist credentials and be pragmatic in approach of can be done. Male or Female.

Democrats can't win the presidency without:
- florida
- ohio
- pennsylvania
- Michigan
-

none of those are LIBERAL BASTIONS of voters.

What plays in California may play fine in New York, but we have lots of states in between that it won't play.

If we want to control the Senate it means having senators from:
Missouri
Ohio
Pennsylvania
Michigan
Wisconsin
and 5 or 6 more not so liberal states

and why we don't have the senate today

[Sparkly]

40. So....

Does that explain what happened to Hillary Clinton? Amy Klobuchar? Bernie is from Vermont and not moderate, and he's left standing. My only question is which excuse is the most irritating?

[beachbumbob]

46. Hillary had more appeal to the base than sanders could ever have.

sanders is left standing becasue he can still con $10 from college students and thats about the only reason he is left.

[Sparkly]

42. PS - Again, it's not about YOUR excuse... it's about the one that most annoys you, from sexists.

I didn't realize the popularity of some of these rationalizations, or sentiments.

[uponit7771]

43. Can we please stop this crap !?!!? MFA was ... ***NOT*** ... popular and sticking to a non popular

... policy and not differentiating herself from Sanders enough wasn't a good strategy.

If it wasn't for her MFA stance she would've had one more vote for her after her debate with Bloomberg.

[MoonlitKnight]

44. Actually

Exit polls showed it is popular.

[uponit7771]

45. GE polls did not show it was popular

[Sparkly]

50. No. This crap continues.

First, this is in response to the last woman standing being defeated, but it is not only about her. It's about the repeated patterns of double-standards applied to so many women, over so many years.

You're saying it is about one of her policies now? Double standard -- it didn't hurt Bernie.

[uponit7771]

51. Her tactic not just the policy, the tactic was to hug Sanders and not constantly go after his BS ...

... and her campaign misjudged his popularity among the dem base.

Of course she gets a female tax, not denying that but I'm thinking she's running neck and neck with Biden if not for MFA and hugging Sanders.

What say you?

tia

[Sparkly]

55. Why does one thing work for Sanders and not for her, then?

[uponit7771]

57. Cause Truman's right, if people have a choice between the original and the copy without much ...

... cost people will choose the original all the time.

By hugging Sanders she became the more sane and less a-hole copy of his whole campaign.

She would've been the new new if it weren't for the "I'm with him" T-Shirt, the few nuances didn't make her stand out.

Scrap MFA for PO, highlight the CPS and other progressive legislation she got through congress and call Sanders out on his antagonism against the DNC and she's overtaking Sanders

IIRC Warren had some decent polling with PoC post NH so she layed some decent ground with black women - https://www.unitycampaign.org/2019-bwressence-poll


I was solid Stacy Abrams or Harris for VP now I think people need to take a serious look at Warren and see what she brings to the table.

[Sparkly]

61. She had her own set of plans, far more detailed

and her own lifetime of experience, body of work, set of beliefs.

Who decided she should be defined as some kind of appendage to Bernie Sanders?

[uponit7771]

63. The lack of substantive attacks on Sanders campaign tactics, his lack of disclosure on policy ...

... and hugging MFA but giving more detail made her an appendage of Sanders campaign.

She was left of Biden, that's not a question but I think it was the misjudging of Sanders popularity that kept her from attacking him on the obvious stuff.

[Sparkly]

66. Okay, peel back the layers.

Why did he get the popularity?

Why, as candidates, are men "likable," women not? Men are "inspiring," women not? Men are "regular folks," women are "too know-it all?" Men are great "orators," women "lecture too much?" Men "are inspirational," women are "scolds?" Men's voices are "powerful," women's are "shrill?" etc. etc. etc...

Why does the "Q" factor of charisma have to come with a Y chromosome? (Or, is it that we don't trust our own power for "electability?&quot

My question is about all women candidates who by all standards have been superior to the men they've run against. This is not just about Warren and Biden and Sanders.

[uponit7771]

67. There's a woman tax, 5% at most ... that's big but I still believe NOT separating herself from ...

... Sanders was the bigger factor

[Sparkly]

71. If so --

why is a winning issue for a man a losing issue for a woman?

She is seen as him only smaller, junior, or assistant.

[uponit7771]

72. I don't think she would've won hugging Sanders no matter what gender she was.

[Sparkly]

73. Again, I am NOT speaking of her specifically

She is ONE example among many.

[treestar]

47. our last two nominees weren't white guys

but the nominee does not have to a woman from here on out.

I didn't think Warren all that inspiring and I doubt I'm a sexist.

[Sparkly]

54. First, race and gender are separate biases.

Second, I'd love to know what is "inspiring" about winners like Donald Trump, and some in our party who I do not want to put down at this point, that makes them superior to women like Clinton, Klobuchar, Warren, Harris, et al.

[treestar]

80. A man will still win sometimes

Even without sexism. Women want equality rather than a new privilege.

[NedBraden]

48. I don't understand the thread

We still have a woman.


Tulsi!!!!

Right now SHE has my vote, I'm ready for a woman POTUS!!!!


Amy was my first choice, and the best choice in the entire field, but there is so much misogyny, that people here even called her pushy and didn't like her because she yelled at her staff.


Seems to me there's any old reason will do to blame and avoid a woman.


Like calling a war vet a Russian agent, lol.

GO TULSI!!!!!

when one or both of these OLD white guys has a heart attack or strokes out again , she willm be right there.

[dsc]

49. The reason Biden is going to win is simple

black voters in the south are voting for him in huge numbers. No one else was able to change that. I think one reason that it is Sanders and not Warren who is number two is sexism, another reason is her not attacking Sanders especially in the last debate. Sanders got close to a free ride from everyone, including her and thus was able to keep his base. From jump I thought that one of Harris, Biden, or Warren would be the nominee. Harris not being able to do better in SC polling is a true mystery to me. I think, in retrospect, CA having such an early primary was bad for her. Had she not dropped when she did (remember she made the debate immediately after her dropping out) she might have gotten support in SC when Biden went off a cliff. But we will never know that. Letting Sanders keep his base unchallenged was a huge mistake on Warren's part, coupled with Biden keeping such a large share of the black vote, it was deadly to her campaign.

[Sparkly]

58. I am asking why.

Why the 'free ride?' Because obviously it would backfire for her to attack. That's difficult for a woman to do, especially in this case where policies overlap.

[uponit7771]

65. great minds !!!

[shenmue]

52. Your reminder that we already elected a woman president, named Hillary Clinton

[MineralMan]

53. Voters and votes. That's what it's all about.

There is absolutely no getting past that simple equation.

[KayF]

56. what's Tulsi Gabbard?

chopped liver?

[Sparkly]

59. Among most Democrats, yes.

For completely different, purely political reasons. I wouldn't vote for Michelle Bachmann, either.

[Lulu KC]

60. Mommy issues is my actual belief of the why

As opposed to Daddy issues.
"Wait until your father gets home," after she's been running the show all day. And then she looks like the bad guy.
I could go on. But I won't.

[Sparkly]

75. Wan't my question but ok, why?

[LakeArenal]

76. Re: Hillary

The lies they spread took root. Those lies die hard in this country. Women carry those lies as baggage that many refuse to acknowledge.

[Dem4Life1102]

78. Two men as usual?

Since the top candidates in the last two Democratic primaries were a man and a woman, how is it two men as usual?

[Sparkly]

79. Since it's been over 200 years and it's usually been a man vs. another man....

and we saw these same things thrown at the one woman candidate for VP and our one woman candidate for president -- as well as various women candidates for the nominations -- yeah, I'd characterize this as the "usual," and I keep hearing the usual "reasons."

[hangaleft]

81. I voted "other"

I’m naïve enough to think that the candidates’ gender has nothing to do with our not having yet had a woman president.

PREFERRED CANDIDATE — ELIZABETH WARREN