Hypothetical: If Sanders dies of coronavirus, what should happen to the primary?

[Don1]

I know this is terrible. BUT Donald Trump, Bernie Sanders, and Joe Biden all have slightly increased risk of death of coronavirus due to age...and not to mention how Donald Trump is handling the pandemic. If Donald Trump dies, it's clear that Mike Pence becomes President and would move forward running. And there is already a thread asking about the situation if Biden died.

So now I am going to ask what happens if Sanders dies. This is more likely than a scenario where Biden might die because of Sanders' health. People with heart disease have a greater risk of serious outcomes during the coronavirus outbreak. This hypothetical also has a lot of similarity to a scenario where Sanders just up and concedes. BUT there are also some significant differences, primarily because ending the primary run would not have been voluntary.

Question#1: For Bernie Sanders supporters (and any Undecideds who wish to answer) only: will you support Joe Biden in the general election? and just throw support to him generally speaking?

Personally, I will support him 100% with the exception of some nuances as discussed below that really are not related to Electoral politics except indirectly. (I will support him but I might not support preempting the primary without proportional representation.)

Go Democrats!

Question#2: For Joe Biden supporters (and any Undecideds who with to answer) only: Given that the primary is actually about more than just electoral politics, it's also about getting delegates to democratically influence the Party Platform and the DNC staff, how would you guarantee continued democracy, i.e. proportionally representation of progressive Democrats at the National Convention if Bernie Sanders died?

This question is a bit complex and relies on an understanding of exactly what delegates and the convention entail and while I've made mention of it before, there seems to be a huge focus on Bernie Sanders as a person, attacking him as a narcissist, and not properly addressing the needs of democracy. I don't know how well I am explaining this so let me repeat it in another way.

Bernie Sanders is a nice guy. Joe Biden is a nice guy. It would be terrible if either of them died. Bernie Sanders is still just a person, but he currently is representing something bigger than himself. He is the current representative of the progressive side of the Democratic Party and Joe Biden is the current representative of the moderate side, even though Joe is also somewhat progressive. Many Democrats are voting ideologically along this sort-of line and some are not, but still many are. The delegates for Bernie that he would hypothetically receive will tend to a much greater extent to be progressive and the delegates for Joe will tend to be less so, more moderate. Now if the population in the Democratic Party is 40% progressive and 60% moderate and Bernie were to quit immediately, the ideological population of delegates at the convention would be more like 25% progressive and 75% moderate.

This would create a situation where moderates would have undue influence over the platform and other decisions of the body. It would be less fair than if Bernie were to continue up to the time of the convention where actual proportional representation of progressives could be achieved or approximately so.

So my question again is how will Biden supporters guarantee no ideological group (in this case moderates) would have undue influence in the Party if Bernie Sanders were to die?

Go Democracy!

[brewens]

1. Weekend at Bernies 3? n/t

[Sloumeau]

35. ROFL

[The Magistrate]

2. This Is Getting Awfully Silly, Sir

It is a trap on the level of the one Pooh and Piglet set for Hephalumps....

Primaries do not serve just for the Presidential line, but to nominate candidates for state and local offices.So they would be held, one way or another, at one time or another.

People can vote for whomever is listed on a ballot. People have voted for dead candidates, and dead candidates have even won on occasion.

There really is not much more to be said on the matter.

Clearly some supporters of 'Bernie' dream the vulture's dream; this is clear from various social media where the hope is expressed.

Supporters of Mr. Biden know it would make no difference at all, that Mr. Biden would open the convention with a solid majority of delegates, whatever happens.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[TwilightZone]

8. I was thinking more along the lines of...

J. R. R. Tolkien and bridges.

[The Magistrate]

13. You May Notice The Edit, Sir

That was just an initial marker, to reserve an early place.

No need to liken 'Bernie' to a Balrog, that would seem to overstate the case considerably. A servant of 'the dark flame of Udun' is something that has a little class....





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[TwilightZone]

16. I was referencing...

the OP, not the candidate.

[Thomas Hurt]

3. I'll bite, it will be sad and tragic and then what will happen is what was going to happen...

if Bernie hadn't died.

[SCantiGOP]

4. Pure bullshit

[Mr.Bill]

5. Actually from my sampling of the Bernie supporters I have met

I believe most of them would still vote for him if he was dead.

[nolawarlock]

73. Pretty much the same here. n/t

[zackymilly]

6. I think some people believe Bernie has more influence in this election than he actually does. n/t

[LizBeth]

7. Sanders is irrelevant. He has lost. The primary is over. Regardless of Sanders present actions.

[zackymilly]

9. More important: Would Jane have to mow all 3 lawns by herself? n/t

[Polybius]

18. It's not the amount of houses that counts

Biden is worth 9 times as much as Bernie. What Bernie decides to do with his money is his business.

[msongs]

21. bernie is always criticizing other people who have loads of money lol

[Polybius]

22. Besides Mayor Pete and possibly Tulsi, everyone running had more than him

And one of those three houses barely counts as a house by the way. The other is a seasonal home.

[LakeArenal]

24. Tell that to a homeless guy living in his car.

It’s all relative.

[Polybius]

26. Sure, that's awful but what is Bernie supposed to do?

If he sold two of those homes and donated it to the homeless, it wouldn't even put a dent in homelessness. His policies as President sure would help though.

[Demsrule86]

34. He won't be president because he lost the primary. And his policies would only help if he won the

General which looking at the numbers in blue wall states, he won't. Why would you want a candidate who has very little AA support to be our nominee...we would lose.

[Polybius]

39. Obviously

Last edited Fri Apr 3, 2020, 01:52 PM - Edit history (1)

At this point it would take a miracle. He would have had a lot more AA support if Biden wasn't running, who is very popular with AA's. Bernie did his part since the 60's, he was a champion of AA's.

[Demsrule86]

47. He has never attracted AA voters...he had four years to remedy this...and yet apparently a plan was

hatched to win with around 30% of the vote in a crowded field. He never attempted to win AA voters over or Clinton supporters like me either. I actually voted for Sanders in the primary in Ohio. But I was fine with Clinton...like both of them at the time. Now I don't like Sanders....really I don't. He needs to suspend his campaign and support Biden so we can beat Trump which is all that matters.

[LakeArenal]

37. Geezus. No Bernie should not sell his house.

Just don’t pretended he doesn’t have plenty of money. All this crap of what about everyone having more money.
Well Bernie has more money than most of us so quit whining.

[Polybius]

40. zackymilly started it

That poster brought up Bernie's houses, not me.

[LakeArenal]

56. You asked me what's he supposed to do. You.

[Polybius]

63. And I'll still ask

His finances are his business. Of the two remaining candidates, he's the one with less money.

[Demsrule86]

36. Mayor Pete is not as wealthy as Sanders is...

[Polybius]

41. Um, no kidding, I just said that

I wrote in post 22 "Besides Mayor Pete and possibly Tulsi, everyone running had more than him."

[Demsrule86]

45. My mistake.

[True Blue American]

43. $600,000

Seasonal home?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

28. Sing it!!

Bernie/Elizabeth 2020!!
They're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the Revolution!!

[Demsrule86]

38. Biden wasn't that wealthy when he was in the Senate or Vice President.

He would have had to sell his house to pay for his kid's medical if Pres. Obama had not stepped in.

[ahoysrcsm]

64. Are you for real?

The poster was asking if Jane Sanders would need to mow all three lawns if, heaven forbid, Bernie pass away.

[Polybius]

68. Real as they get

And I doubt they mow their own lawns either.

[Gothmog]

10. The primary has been over for a while and so this will make little difference

Link to tweet

[Don1]

12. The primary isn't over.

The Convention hasn't happened.

You didn't answer the question.

[Gothmog]

14. In the real world the primary is over

70% of the party has rejected sanders and so no one would care if sanders is not at the convention. Hopefully there would be a moment of silence for sanders at the convention at the same time we honor a real Democrat like Elijah Cummings.

[TwilightZone]

17. The race is over. Sanders has literally a 0% chance of winning the nomination.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-primary-forecast/?ex_cid=rrpromo

[Demsrule86]

30. No primary goes all the way to the convention...it is over. Mathematically Sanders can't win.

And he will not be our nominee in any scenario, you choose.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

31. You won't get an answer... don't have one.

Bernie/Elizabeth 2020!!
They're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the Revolution!!

[TwilightZone]

33. He got three answers.

All of them more accurate than his (or your) assertions.

[Don1]

42. I did not get any good answers.

Someone will take it seriously eventually and give a great answer. In fact, multiple people will. I will be patient.

[Demsrule86]

48. If you seek agreement, I fear you will have to answer yourself. JK

[lapucelle]

53. In case you get hungry while you're waiting.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

55. True dat!!

Bernie/Elizabeth 2020!!
They're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the Revolution!!

[TwilightZone]

61. You don't want answers.

Your assertions make it clear that your intent is to disrupt.

[The Magistrate]

66. You Got Answers You Do Not Want To Engage, Sir

Sanders in his colossal egotism conflates support for certain policy goals with desire for him to be the leader of a movement to achieve those goals.

This is nonesense.

Even leaving aside the fact that most of those goals are general among Democratic voters and enjoy broad support among Democratic office-holders and Party officials, virtually no one, not even among Sanders' supporters, thinks he can actually achieve them should he come to hold the highest office in the land.

Expressions of support for Sanders are made as a marker of political orientation. Expressing support for Sanders says 'I'm not a moderate, I'm well to the left of most people', and as with most such things, serves to identify a 'cool' group separate from the general run of 'squares'. People doing this do not even particularly want to prevail, in the sense of being in the majority. It is axiomatic that a majority can never be 'cool', the feeling of being 'hip' and part of an 'in-crowd' depends on being outnumbered by the host of the unwashed and unenlightened. The point is not to achieve any political goal, to secure any discrete reform, it is simply to be sure one is perceived as a particular, and special, kind of person.

People who have an actual interest in achieving the goals widespread among Democrats, the goals of all left and progressive and liberal persons in general, recognize readily Sanders is far too flawed as a politician, and as a personality, to make any progress towards their goals. They know Sanders has not achieved any measurable advance towards them in his long Congressional career. They know Sanders' claim to hold patents and copyrights on these goals is nonesense, because they know their own desires pre-date Sanders, and exist in their hearts and minds without the slightest reference to him or influence by him.

In short, while Sanders imagines himself to be the indispensable man, an overwhelming majority of Democratic voters are clear in their minds that Sanders is quite dispensable, and are determined to see him disposed of, as soon as possible.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[Dopers_Greed]

11. Even though Sanders is at risk...

The chances of him dying from COVID-19 are quite small, aren't they?

[Gothmog]

15. sanders faces a far higher risk due to his heart attack

[NurseJackie]

19. Bazinga!

[ucrdem]

20. He should suspend his campaign for a week?

A guy can dream . . .

[Don1]

25. That's terrible.

It also doesn't answer the op question.

[Gothmog]

46. Biden has moved on to the general election

No one is paying attention to sanders now Biden is running against trump now

[ucrdem]

59. True but he still has his little pile of brickbats

and his band of salaried catapulters. He'll soon start the same tricks he pulled in 2016, challenging Biden to non-existent debates, getting in front of every camera he can find, and he'll ALWAYS find a camera, to nastily pick some nit or other and generally make a nuisance of himself. Mark my words.

[treestar]

83. He might actually drop out in that event

But then Jane might take up the banner.

[ucrdem]

84. Something like that would be inevitable.

At the very least a write-in campaign. And if it's close again that might add just enough cover in a few key states to leverage another EC cheat-win.

Which is probably the game plan anyway.

[OverBurn]

23. Governor Cuomo becomes President! That woman from Michigan becomes VP!

[LakeArenal]

29. "That woman" you mean Governor Gretchen Whitmer?

She just might make VP.

[True Blue American]

44. That woman

Is referring to what Trump called her. She got in Trump’s face. Just like Nancy. He refuses to speak to her. Refused to have her at the bill signing. Such a petty, little excuse of a man.

[Demsrule86]

27. You offer a false premise with hypothetical numbers. In order to have influence,you must win.

So the answer to your question is if Sander were to die which would be a tragedy nothing would happen, the primary is over. Biden has won the nomination. Now if Biden chooses to he could add some of Sander's ideas to the platform...but he doesn't have to do this. To the victor go the spoils. As Sanders and others should have learned long ago, if you want influence you have to be able to win an election or a primary. Why should Biden who has trounced sanders be expected to give anything to the losing side? He can of course if he thinks it will help with unification but looking at what happened in the 16 General, it won't.

[LakeArenal]

32. Nah. Just a daisy-chain of the same bs.

[Demsrule86]

49. Exactly and lets face it...platforms are pretty much meaningless in my opinion these days.

What is important is that which is possible to pass thorough Congress and sign into law...Sanders staying in doesn't just hurt us in the General but in down ballot races as well...we really need the Senate and to retain the House.

[LakeArenal]

57. For me... Just beat trump.

[Marcuse]

50. Only the Russians believe a US President would necessarily consider the party platform as canon.

[Demsrule86]

51. That is very true which is why they wanted Trump to change the GOP platform. And he did.

He is constantly kissing Putin's....well you know. One wonders exactly what Putin has on Trump.

[The Magistrate]

52. You Are Using This To Trot Out Your Old Proposal, Sir

Which we have crossed words over before.

You want to strike a deal by which 'Bernie' supporters receive a proportion of delegates you feel is appropriate to what you feel is the actual balance of voters in the Democratic Party, whatever the actual votes may be.

You suppose that forty percent are what you call 'progressive' and sixty percent are what you call 'moderate' and you think delegates should be apportioned accordingly.

First, understand being out-voted three to two in a democratic body entitles the minority to nothing at all. Anything short of a majority has only what influence the majority may choose to grant it. That, Sir, actually is Democracy, as it has always been practiced, and still is practiced today. No proposal, no plank, no change of rules, not the slightest motion, which is opposed by sixty percent of convention delegates, can pass or ought to be passed.

Second, the only way the forty percent could attempt getting anything they have not the votes to carry, and the majority is in no mood to grant, is by some threat the majority feels it must acquiesce to. Disruption on the floor, or withholding of votes in the general election, whether by calving off into a third party, or by voting instead for the opposing party's candidates, or by sitting on their hands and not voting at all. As a matter of curiousity, Sir, which do you think the forty percent ought to choose among these threats, to bend the majority to their will?

Third, though it must remain a matter of opinion, it certainly seems to me your gauging of factional strength within the Party wildly overstates the strength of the faction you support. That would best be judged by total vote tallies, not by delegate strength, as a fair number of votes do not result in delegates being alloted --- candidates failing to achieve a one vote in six threshold in a primary, or receiving votes after they have ceased standing for the nomination. It is quite fair to take as the voting strength of the 'moderate' faction the total of all primary votes cast for anyone but Sanders. After all, the Sanders campaign regarded all opponents as moderates, as figures who were nowhere near so 'progressive' as was 'Bernie', and that they proved themselves in the final analysis to be mere tools wielded by the 'Democratic Establishment', which prevailed on them to cease active candidacy to the detriment of Sanders' campaign. Voters supporting Sen. Warren may well consider themselves to the left of the typical moderate, but support for Sen. Warren included active rejection of 'Bernie' as a standard bearer for progressive policies. As matters have worked out, her bloc of voters has been pretty solid for Mr. Biden. Taking all this together, roughly seventy percent of Democratic primary voters cast their ballots against Sanders, and this is a good deal closer to the seventy-five percent 'moderate' twenty-five percent 'progressive' split you proclaim unfair to your 'progressive' faction.

Fourth, if you define 'progressive' as people who would stick with allegiance to 'Bernie' through thick and thin, the twenty-five to thirty percent who voted for Sanders in primaries is likely a considerable overstatement of 'progressive' strength. The largest portion of Sanders' supporters seem likely to be quite willing to swing behind the candidate who prevailed in the primary, and opened the convention with a solid majority of delegates. They are not likely to support disruption by Sanders delegates, or other actions they think likely to do harm to the effort to turf out the cheap thug Trump in the general election.

Understand, having two fifths of delegates does not mean two fifths of the decisions go your way. Any more than having a quarter of the delegates means a quarter of the decisions go your way. Whether you have two fifths of the delegates or one quarter of the delegates, the majority of delegates gets its way on any question its members are serious about prevailing on, and it may well be their will to prevail on every single thing which comes to the floor. And that actually is Democracy, Sir, as it has been practiced for ages.





"From Bernie’s perspective, dropping out of a race once you have no chance of winning is peculiar behavior that can only be explained by the work of a hidden hand. For most politicians, though, it is actually standard operating procedure. Only Sanders seems to think the normal thing to do once voters have made clear they don’t want to nominate you is to continue campaigning anyway."





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[ismnotwasm]

54. What the actual fuck? I just googled this shit, it's a great way to answer...questions

Enjoy. I guess.

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/27/21186614/what-happens-presidential-nominee-coronavirus

[William769]

58. Did you just find another Don the con?

[ismnotwasm]

60. Apparently

JFC. I’m annoyed

[MineralMan]

62. What should happen to the Primary? That's your question.

To Which Primary do you refer? Or are you referring to the Convention?

It's very unlikely that either Joe Biden or Bernie Sanders will die prior to the Democratic Nominating Convention. Both are isolating themselves in their homes, pretty much, and avoiding risks associated with the COVID-19 pandemic.

If, in the unlikely circumstance that one of them died before the convention, their names would still appear on the primary ballots in the states still left to hold their primaries. There are multiple such states. In any state, delegates would be allocated proportionally between the candidates, as usual, unless a candidate died prior to that allocation taking place.

However, at the convention, a candidate who had died would not be put forward for nomination. Therefore, any delegates allocated for that candidate would be free to vote for a nominated candidate. Since there will only be two candidates put forward, assuming that neither has died, the death of one candidate would reduce the number of potential nominees to just one. Nomination by acclamation would, no doubt, be the result.

While it might be possible for another candidate's name to be put forward, that would seem to me to be a very unlikely thing to happen.

In actual fact, both candidates will almost certainly still be alive at the time of the Convention. The odds dictate that pretty clearly. What will happen then is that the candidate who has the majority of delegates will win the nomination. It's very simple.

Beyond that, I will not bite on your offering. I can see the hook embedded in it.

[ahoysrcsm]

65. If anything, you should self delete.

Pulling this crap against Biden, then against Bernie.

[Blue_true]

67. The primaries should still take place, if possible.

There are down allot races and local issues on the ballot.

[la-trucker]

69. Another dark, macabre and morbid post

hypothetical or not

[mikelgb]

70. what a circlejerk

[Codeine]

71. Knock it the fuck off. nt

[nolawarlock]

72. Turn it into a party? n/t

[Hekate]

74. Just stop this nonsense. You've received many substantive answers to your Vulture Posts...

...have ignored them all, and generally continue as someone who is stirring the pot or chumming the waters, take your pick.

Cut it out.

[The Magistrate]

75. Hear Hear, Ma'am

The decent thing would be self-delete, and hope the shambles sinks quickly....





"When things are not called by their right names, what is said cannot make sense. When what is said does not make sense, what is planned cannot succeed. When plans do not succeed, people become uneasy. When people are uneasy, punishments do not fit crimes. When punishments do not fit crimes, people cannot know where to put hand or foot."

[Don1]

76. No not really.

Weekend at Bernies is not substantive.

Long long posts that come down to not answering is not answering.

Your post is also not an answer.

Do you have one?

[MrsCoffee]

80. Stop this nonsense was the best answer you deserve.

[Don1]

81. No it isn't.

Ensuring democratic principles is a far better answer.

[Mike Nelson]

77. Well...

... I see others' answers and I will answer re: Votes. I don't think it would make much difference in the number of votes Biden gets in the GE. The majority of Bernie voters will come around and vote for the Democrat. There is a small group of voters - sometimes called "Bros" here - that will jump ship. They are ship jumpers, anyway. They will speculate about how Biden, Hillary, and/or Obama had Bernie killed because they knew he would eventually win the Democratic nomination and become President. These kind of groups make up wild stories and "conspiracy theories" all the time. Trump has a group of them, too...

[Squinch]

78. Many would be sad. But it would make no political difference.

BS has made himself irrelevant.

Only his most...er...dim followers don't see that.

[treestar]

82. As I said in the mirror thread,

what does it matter what they die of?

What if they both die? What if Dumpf dies too?

It never made sense to execute the Romanovs. Even if you get rid of the entire nuclear family, there is someone next in line. They may be a third cousin, but they are next in line for the throne.

[Hortensis]

85. Democrats have a socially distanced funeral ceremony, and a

lot of Democratic dignitaries say nice things about him, lead by our nominee. Trump is not invited, so tweets a few anti-Democratic whackjob offerings about himself.