Health Stocks Crumble as Fears of 'Medicare for All' Snowball

[workinclasszero]

Bloomberg - Drew Armstrong and John Tozzi April 17, 2019

Politics can be an ugly business. Health-care politics, especially so. Health-care companies that get mixed up in politics? That was $28 billion worth of ugly on Tuesday, and the stock market damage continued on Wednesday.

“Presidential primary politics,” said Evercore ISI analyst Michael Newshel, are “more in focus than fundamentals.”

The slide began in earnest on Tuesday when UnitedHealth Group Inc. -- treated by investors as a bellwether for the insurance sector -- waded into the debate over “Medicare for All,” which would expand government-administered coverage to most of the population and rewrite the businesses of U.S. health insurers, hospitals and doctors.

While it’s a longshot to become law despite the backing of some contenders for the Democratic presidential nomination, the proposal has the power to upend company stock prices. Together, the shares of hospitals and insurers lost $28 billion in market value on Tuesday, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The Tuesday losses capped the worst five-day stretch since 2011 for health insurers, despite UnitedHealth reporting earnings that beat analysts’ estimates and raising its 2019 forecast.

The slide in hospital and insurance stocks continued Wednesday, wiping out billions of dollars more in market value from some of the biggest health companies in the U.S. UnitedHealth fell 3.2 percent at 2:20 p.m. in New York. Its competitor Anthem Inc. was down 6.8 percent, and Cigna Corp. slid 5.1 percent. Hospital chain HCA Healthcare Inc. dropped 3 percent, and Community Health Systems Inc. lost 5.5 percent.

Last week, Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, who is contending for the Democratic presidential nomination, discussed his support of Medicare for All at Fox News town hall in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, on Monday night. Fox anchor Bret Baier asked the audience at the event to raise their hands if they had private health insurance from an employer.

“Now of those, how many are willing to transition to what the senator says, a government-run system?” Baier asked the crowd. There were cheers in the room as people raised their hands, and afterward Sanders posted a clip from the event, tweeting “raise your hand if you’re sick and tired of your private health insurance company.”

Last week, Sanders specifically called out UnitedHealth, saying in an April 12 tweet “your greed is going to end.”

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/health-stocks-28-billion-hit-135653932.html?fbclid=IwAR0oLUQPdUcwVB-tZ_lspp_TFIt-9W3bRvaW08hTCtBBzgHtFD1ihRSYdn4

[Loki Liesmith]

1. I don't want Medicare for all but

If it’s going to happen we need a good transition plan to prevent massive disruption to several industries.

[workinclasszero]

2. Yes we need to worry where these people who are literally killing Americans for money

are going to find their next job.

How about all the people that GM just put out on the street? How about all the ex-Harley-Davidson people looking for work in Kansas City?

They had good jobs that didn't involve killing people for their lack of $$$ but nobody gives a **** what happens to them.

High-Deductible Health Policies Linked To Delayed Diagnosis And Treatment
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/04/18/713887452/high-deductible-health-policies-linked-to-delayed-diagnosis-and-treatment

Struggling to stay alive: Rising insulin prices cause diabetics to go to extremes
The escalating cost of insulin has desperate diabetics rationing medication, acquiring the drug from friends or getting it from Canada or Mexico.
https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/50-states/2019/03/21/diabetes-insulin-costs-diabetics-drug-prices-increase/3196757002/

How much does the CEO of UnitedHealthcare make?

Business Week reports his annual salary as $14,518,164. For 2016, his compensation was estimated at $31.3 million, representing a 55.8 percent increase compared to 2015, which was estimated at $14,500,000 by FierceHealthcare. Forbes magazine ranked him at 269th in its 2009 Special Report on CEO Compensation.

Stephen J. Hemsley - Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_J._Hemsley

But yeah let's worry where the CEO of UnitedHealthCare is going to make his 100's of millions when we get M4A!!!

[rgbecker]

3. Yes. +1 Couldn't have made it any clearer what is going on.

[workinclasszero]

10. These outrageous thieves are killing Americans for profit

and yet we are supposed to be so damn concerned about how the poor babies will survive after their bloody rein of terror is put to and end with M4A!!!

It makes me sick how horribly average American are used and abused in this country!

But lets worry about the poor 1%!!

[Indygram]

4. A public option like in Medicare for America fixes that

by forcing insurance companies to have to compete. In order to remain in business they would have to offer something good. Having BOTH options provides the most freedom and choice for the American people.

And millions of regular American people are employed with families to take care of work for the companies you want to blow up. Millions of people actually get insurance paid for entirely or mostly by their employer too...and you want to blow that up too.

For this reason I oppose Medicare for All because it is really Medicare ONLY. I don't like lack of choice. I support Medicare for America, which allows EVERYONE who wants it to get Medicare but does NOT force them to use it if they like employer or private insurance.

[workinclasszero]

8. Look at the link I put up about people WITH insurance who must now risk their lives and delay or put

off forever getting treatment they need because they can't afford the insane deductibles!

You think those people are concerned about staying with the thieves that are taking their money in exchange for nothing!?

[Politicub]

17. Can't we use the ACA as a bridge to MFA?

After all, there are millions who depend upon the exchange for coverage.

While I’m all for Bernie’s comprehensive approach to healthcare, it is something other than Medicare. Or at least something other than Medicare in Medicare’s current form.

I’m all for thinking big and audaciously. But please remember that you have millions who use the ACA successfully and you don’t want to alienate people like us. Those of us who do depend on the ACA have seen the GOP attack it mercilessly. It is all we have for now.

What Bernie wants to do, and I guess it must be done to get rid of the health insurance industry, is rip up our current system of Medicare, Medicaid and the ACA, and replace it with something that is different. In my opinion, Bernie is retaining the Medicare name for branding only.

There is nothing wrong with branding. I would like for more people to acknowledge that what Bernie is proposing is not Medicare as we know it. If implemented, indeed it would be far better for more people. But please don’t make the folks who depend on our current system for our very lives feel like we’re going to lose what gains have been made.

If you look at my recent post history, I am starting to warm up to Bernie after thinking I would be unable to. He is in my top four now. I hope there are more people like me since we need to unify for the general election no matter who are nominee is. Part of that will be acknowledging that Bernie’s proposal for comprehensive healthcare needs more meat on the bones in terms of specific details.

[TheRealNorth]

31. I would be ok with the ACA if we can fix some of the issues and loopholes in the law

But if the courts decide to gut the ACA, I am all in with Medicare for All.

[Indygram]

18. I have employer insurance, my employer pays about 75% of my premiums

For medical, dental and vision I pay under $50 a week. I have far more choices of providers than I would otherwise because the providers get paid less for Medicare and Medicaid and those who accept it have enormously long waits to be seen.

Myself and millions of other with employer insurance are NOT going to support what Bernie is selling. The main reason many people like the sound of Medicare for All is because they want the option to get Medicare but if they were told it meant ONLY Medicare you would see many more people opposing it.

[BlueWI]

26. It's more than just Bernie selling MFA.

Polls show broad support for single payer, at least as much support as the ACA has.

And it's great to have employer provided health care as long as your employer provides health care. The trends for millennials are pointing towards a gig economy where employment provided benefits are fewer. Plenty of people are uninsured now.

It's a timely debate, and it's not just about Bernie Sanders.

[Indygram]

29. I know it's more than him, but I prefer Medicare for America, which is what Beto supports

When you hear people say "Medicare for All" they rarely point out that it means ONLY Medicare and the eradication of private employer based insurance. You would see the amount of people who seem to support it suddenly oppose it. People like options and choices. I absolutely DO NOT support Medicare for All. I will actually be angry if that is pushed through. Health care is far too important to hand completely over to the government. Competition is what ensures quality and affordability and a public option will fix the current problems. I'm a FIRM believer in taking the LEAST restrictive and destructive solution to fix a problem. Blowing everything up when it does work for millions of people is stupid and a great way to cause political backlashes like the Tea Party movement that caused much of the division we currently have.

[BlueWI]

32. Sure - even if it passed it would be compromise legislation.

But you can't campaign and win based on 2000 page bills. You have to clarify the principles and seek the best solution.

Right now under ACA/private plans, we have declining coverage for many, too many uninsured, fewer jobs offering coverage, and too much inflation in the sector still. How will the current system deal with these challenges? It's important to have the debate, and some of us will have to live with a system that isn't our first choice. It's that way now, in fact.

[rgbecker]

16. I have issues with anything less than Medicare for all. Sustainability for instance.

Two problems with simply relying on the Public option.

1. The sick and those with pre-existing conditions will be rejected by the private companies and for that matter won’t be working and thus not be covered by employer supplied coverage. This will pile up the largest expenses onto the public option, require higher premiums, and your all American choice and competition is back to just Healthcare for the rich and screw everyone else. The "public option" will require huge subsidies and will be subject to the same attacks Medicare and Medicaid is suffering now.

2. The competition between companies and desire to supply the shareholders and executives with millions require a huge army of people trained in the art of denying coverage, screening of applicants to eliminate the potential sick and accident prone and of course the much discussed population with “pre existing conditions”. These people are not required if the premise is “ you have a right to healthcare and we will take care of you regardless".


The soon to be unemployed staff working to profit the private insurers could be put to work finding ways to better healthcare outcomes at lower costs. As others have pointed out the concern for anyone put out of work because the constant change throughout the economy is no different one industry from another. The solution is government sponsored retraining, education and free college for all.

[Demsrule86]

19. The ACA with price control, regulation and a public option takes care of all your isues.

And this is attainable. Medicare for all is never going to happen.

[rgbecker]

21. Do I have to repeat myself? All my issues:

People choosing public option will be those without access to private insurance and employer provided insurance coverage. Unless the regulations you cite control price of those private insurance plans and making those plans available to anyone, not just some, the market will stratify and like now, many will not be able to afford coverage premiums and deductibles. If you are all right with health coverage rationed by money just say so. Public option with ACA is a stepping stone to Medicare for All simply because it will fail and the pressure for single payer will be over whelming....meanwhile millions will go without coverage and thousands will die each year while we wait for people to wise up. Half the current Democratic candidates realize this and hopefully will move towards implementation.

Show me your plan with price control of private insurers. Does it include coverage for all that apply or are the private companies allowed to screen applicants while the public option can't?

I'm very interested in this.

[Demsrule86]

28. That is included in regulation...prices must be controlled.

[Indygram]

30. You are wrong.

A public option allows EVERYONE the opportunity to have Medicare IF they want to...but they are NOT forced to give up what they have to have it. ANYONE who is sick and has pre-existing conditions will have Medicare. Even if they have employer based insurance they can STILL have Medicare instead IF they choose to. They lose NOTHING.

Because private insurance would have to compete with Medicare, which would be available to 100% of people, they would HAVE to offer something just as good, if not better at a reasonable cost or NO ONE WOULD BUY IT.

The "public option" would BE Medicare, meaning EVERY SINGLE PERSON could get Medicare...but they would NOT be FORCED to get it IF they prefer private insurance.

Why are you so opposed to people having a choice? I support Medicare for America 100%, but I oppose Medicare for All 100% because I like and want to keep my insurance and no one else has the right to take that from me.

[rgbecker]

33. Hey, I get that you want to continue with your subsidized plan thru your employer..

and that you want to pick which insurance company you want to have 10% of each of your healthcare dollar but the public option will be very hard to sustain. If your employer can refuse me, if the government is stuck with all the sick people, either the public option will become unaffordable or taxpayer dependent and thus vulnerable to shut down because there are actually people out there, mainly Republicans, think healthcare is like getting their car repaired....you know, shop around for the best price or the best service...if you can't afford it, well, take the bus.

[booksandpencils]

12. No one is worried about the CEO

It's the other 500K people in the industry.

We just witnessed an election lost by about 100K people. So it's probably a good idea not to call people who do medical billing killers and have a plan for their future employment.

[Loki Liesmith]

13. Lol is that what a Democrat would say?

Do you have any idea how many regular people work in the health care industry?

Spare me your Manichaean worldview.

[Lancero]

22. Personally, I'd worry more for the people doing the paperwork and mopping the floors.

But if you want to label secretaries and janitors as mass-murders, well... You do you?

[Freddie]

5. If it's going to happen we need a long transition

Not just for the people who work in insurance and medical billing, but for those people who have a good employer plan they really like. Has to be made fair for everyone.

[Demsrule86]

20. We are never getting MFA. Best to lmprove that ACA. It is all we

may ever have. The voters will toss us out if we even attempt MFA.

[Lancero]

23. I can look in a history book and find pictures of people who said similar...

You know, 'never going to happen!'.

Spoiler, you wouldn't be in good company.

[Demsrule86]

27. Spoiler if the GOP uses MFA to beat us in 20 , you won't be in good company.

Reality bites you will be tossed out of office if you plan to force folks off of workplace insurance and say you wish to kill millions of insurance jobs and lose the presidency. The ACA HELPED us win the midterms. 31 moderates were elected . Fix the ACA and add a public option. That is possible...MFA is not.

[Freddie]

24. I think we will SOMEDAY

After a very long transition period of building on the ACA, starting with a public option (Medicare For Everyone). I agree that jumping right into MFA would be a disaster and frighten many would-be voters who like what they have and are scared of change.

[Demsrule86]

25. I think it will be universal coverage...don't know how long it takes.

[WeekiWater]

6. It has more to do with blow-back from legislation that is more imminent.

Lawmakers are currently contemplating legislation that will increase control over benefits to pharmacy benefit managers which would lead to lower drug costs. Another more imminent issue is the Trump administrations legal battle over the ACA.

This was even a part of a congressional hearing last Tuesday where Republicans even said they are ready to help get control over prescription drug costs.

Congress is seriously looking at changes to the PBM business model. This will have an enormous impact on the rebates by the pharmaceutical industry that helps to get their drugs covered by insurance plans, including medicare.

These stocks aren't falling because of something that cannot pass in this congress or the next one. Articles like this are hit pieces directed at the lowest common denominator.

[rgbecker]

7. Interesting that the analysts are so sure it is talk of Medicare for All as opposed to

the appeal court finding Obamacare unconstitutional. Investment in the Healthcare sector has been skyrocketing since the Republican plan of using private insurers in the ACA with no public option was established in 2010. A shutdown of the current ACA may not be that far off given the new members of the Supreme Court.

But of course yahoo and the wall street journal don't have any reason to blame Medicare for all rather than the demise of ACA, do they?

[WeekiWater]

9. You smell it too?

It is because of what you mention and the threat of changes to PBM's.

[rgbecker]

11. Yes, I see you were making the same point as I typed my response!

The analysts spin the news everyday to try and conform their political views with stock market behavior no matter if the market is up or down in any particular moment. The repetition by the talking heads who are not necessarily that informed about the market just carries the political point to the population who is even less informed...most probably not even in the market.

Of course the king of the spin is Trump, taking credit for the market rise and the Republicans are happy to pass that opinion along.

Just a small part of our wonderful, God blessed Capitalistic system.

[WeekiWater]

15. These are really shallow attacks on Medicare for All.

While I prefer a bit of a different direction these attacks need to be highlighted. The overriding concept of Medicare for All has to be accepted by society whether you want Medicare for All or some other form of single payer system.

[booksandpencils]

14. This is a good point.

But that narrative doesn't get as many clicks.

[BlueFlorida]

34. And millions of people's 401-Ks took a hit

They won't like it.