Worrying trend with Senator Sanders' supporters

[KitSileya]

Forbes.com released a new poll pitting Mayor Buttigieg and Senator Sanders, and found some interesting numbers in the results.

5 Weird Items In The New Bernie-Buttigieg Poll

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldurkheimer/2019/04/17/5-weird-items-in-the-new-bernie-buttigieg-poll/#337df7ec7ddd
Michael Durkheimer
Contributor
Policy
I write about numbers, polls and interesting data

......

No. 3. 26% of current Bernie Sanders supporters said that they would rather vote for President Donald Trump over Senator Elizabeth Warren, if that were the eventual 2020 matchup.

While many have assumed that Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren appeal to a similar progressive voter, many apparent Bernie supporters would seem to disagree. More than one-in-four of them say they would rather vote for Donald Trump’s second term instead of voting for Elizabeth Warren. In the overall head-to-head between Warren and Trump, voters suggest that they would prefer Trump 52% to Warren 48%.

No. 2: While 100% of Buttigieg’s supporters said they would support Bernie against Trump (if that were the General Election matchup), only 79% of Bernie’s supporters said they would vote for Buttigieg over Trump in a General Election.

This is just another example of the trend where Bernie's supporters appear to be incredibly loyal to just Bernie. Here, 21% of Bernie's supporters say that they would rather vote for President Trump than Pete Buttigieg, if given the binary choice. Perhaps many Bernie supporters would legitimately prefer Trump over most other Democrats. Perhaps Trump and Bernie have a similar, singular appeal to a certain subset of voters. While most Democratic primary voters would support Bernie in the general election if he were the nominee, it appears that some significant subset of Bernie’s supporters do not intend to reciprocate.

What does this say about some of Senator Sanders' supporters? Not being an expert, to me it seems that a sizeable number of them have no trouble with burning the village in order to save it, and that they are willing to sacrifice any marginalized group if they do not get the economic policies they want delivered by the man they have chosen - the fact that Senator Warren have very similar stances, fleshed out with detailed policies, even, does not seem to matter.

And at this point in time it is only the willfully blind or the downright psychopathic who do not see that a second Trump term will mean deaths, many, many deaths. It will kill the weakest among us, the women who need abortions, African Americans all across the country, the disabled, the people on SNAP, the LBGTQ community, immigrants, Latin American children and adults at the border, and Americans of Latin American descent. All groups that can be scapegoated for the Trumpian deplorables will have its victims at the hands of the Trump regime. I never thought I would fear that Senator Sanders' supporters would help bring that into reality, but apparently I do.

[liberal N proud]

1. Exposes the Bobs for who they are

Who the were in 2016 and why we have trump.

[Kahuna7]

77. They keep telling us it's a myth. Seriously...

right after the 2016 election I urged the DNC and all who would listen to not pander to them as their loyalty was to Bernie, only. When they said, "Bernie or Bust," they meant it.

[Tom Rinaldo]

91. Of course Bernie or Busters should be identified, they are usually glad to self identify

BoB's have a political viewpoint, one which I strongly disagree with. I spent many hours arguing with them in 2016. I think I contributed to some people who held those views finally voting for Hillary in November, even if unenthusiastically.

I think efforts to convince those types to support the Democratic nominee in a General Election against Trump are worth undertaking, once the Democratic nominee is known. Until then though they will stay focused on their mission. After that, if Bernie is not the nominee, most of that hard core minority will probably not be persuaded, but some of them will be. The more that could be the better for our chances.

I have found that calling people assholes and traitors is not generally effective in changing their viewpoints. Clearly leading high profile BoB's are all in with their ideology, they in almost all cases won't be reached. But many of those, who that core are seeking to influence in their direction, can be engaged in discussions. I've done it. No they won't likely become convinced that the Democratic Party is the embodiment of all their political beliefs. But some will acknowledge that another 4 years of Trump would lead to the death of their political beliefs, and they will subsequently vote Democratic..

Meanwhile there are the clear majority of those who support Sanders, who start out fully inclined to support the Democratic nominee whoever that may be. Most of them will do so no matter how often they feel smeared by broad brush insults against Sanders supporters, such as loosely calling all who support Sanders "Bernie Bro's". But human nature is well know and predictable. If a group is continually insulted some will turn away in a reactive manner. THAT is one of the tactics that Russian trolls used in 2016. They work to get BOTH sides agitated and at odds with each other because they know when that happens voter suppression occurs. I hate it when it looks like that tactic is succeeding on Democratic Underground.

[BannonsLiver]

2. Interesting, yet not at all surprising.

[sarabelle]

73. Are these polls taken in person, over the phone, or by mail or on-line?

Believe them when they tell you who they are the first time. The first time was 2016. They have not changed. Still wondering how far into the Sanders group the Russian bots have been imbedded? The Mueller report was very damning about the way the Russians were able to control the Bernie movement.

[comradebillyboy]

3. No surprises here sad to say.

[lapucelle]

4. Only 51% of current BS supporters voted in the 2016 General Election for the Democratic nominee.

No. 1: Only 51% of current Bernie supporters actually voted in the 2016 General Election for the Democratic nominee, Hillary Clinton – 7% voted for Trump, 23% voted for a third-party candidate, and 19% did not vote.

[George II]

7. That's no big surprise, especially considering that three top members of the Sanders campaign....

...this time around have openly stated that they voted for Jill Stein.

[Celerity]

44. yes, a huge % of Sanderite actual Dems from 2016 have dropped Sanders in 2020, from the article....

Only 42% of those who voted for Bernie in the 2016 Primary selected him as their top choice in the 2020 Primary.

Many assume that Bernie’s supporters from 2016 are a deeply loyal group, but it would appear that with more alternatives in 2020 (beyond Hillary Clinton) former Bernie voters have new top choices. For example, of Bernie’s 2016 supporters, 15.7% now selected Beto O’Rourke as their top choice, 11.7 % selected Joe Biden, 7.9% selected Pete Buttigieg and 6% selected Kamala Harris.


This 2020 Berner group seems much more radical and anti-Democratic Party. It is going to cause a lot of issues, most all of them really bad.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

180. Given those numbers, where is the support coming from?

Emerson had him ranked #1 in latest nominee poll. Is it from brand new young voters?

[Celerity]

184. seems to be a Celerity maths day, lol (just did big drill down post on another subject)

Oki (and this may be really off but here goes)

in 2016 he got 43.1% of the total vote

42% of 43.1% is 18.1%

which is really close to where he is now as lets say he is around 222-23% now (I will throw out that 29% Emerson poll)

https://morningconsult.com/2020-democratic-primary/



the week before, same 23%



before that






I am sure he could have added 4 to 5% (or less, if that 23% is too high) via new voters


Also there is this

[mcar]

211. Thanks for this information

[Decoy of Fenris]

220. Nice compilation. But do you know what's up with Emerson's polling?

They seem to consistently have Sanders polling higher than every other and I can't figure out why. I don't have the head for polling algorithms or such though, so I was hoping someone who's better with numbers may be able to tell me what's up. I avoid them for now just for confirmation bias' sake.

[dawg day]

302. Many might have been too young to vote in 2016.

Last edited Sun Apr 21, 2019, 05:00 PM - Edit history (1)

[redstatebluegirl]

5. No real surprise here.

We had a graduate student in 2016 who told me he wanted to "blow up the system" by voting for Trump because the democrats "stole the election from BS". He was and still is (he never completed his program), nuts.

[at140]

29. That is basically what I am hearing

Revenge by BS supporters due to the perception that DNC favored Hillary.

[MarcA]

71. In '68 some "revolutionaries" said they were voting for Wallace.

Not sure how many actually did. They always seem to be around,
sometimes more numerous and influential.

[Tom Rinaldo]

80. Many RFK supprters voted for Wallace after Bobby was assansiinated

That fact isn't used to undermine the integrity of either Bobby or the vast majority of those who supported him. Far from it.

I think that defectors from RFK to Wallace were far more numerous than any splinter of self identified "revolutionaries" whose actual votes were at odds with their professed ideals. Ever since Bobby ran, up until now, it was always considered a big plus for Bobby that he was able to attract cross over support from working class whites, many of whom were infected with racism at the time, while he continued to champion civil rights for all Americans.

That is why so many of us were convinced that Kennedy would have won a head to head election against Nixon which would have ended the Vietnam war years earlier than it did, and saved hundreds of thousands of lives.

[vsrazdem]

6. Were these people interviewed all democrats?

[George II]

9. These people are Sanders supporters. Sanders is running for the Democratic nomination.

[vsrazdem]

10. Yes, but all sanders supporters are not democrats. Many are independents and don't

vote strictly by party.

[SergeStorms]

14. Sanders isn't a Democrat.

So I guess there's no surprise there.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

52. Wrong again!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Thekaspervote]

54. When did bernie become a dem, or did I just miss the most recent "check in?"

[we can do it]

90. He hasn't. Just BS.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

199. Please stop spreading misinformation that Bernie is not a member of the Democratic Party...

as that would disqualify him from running for the 2020 Democratic nomination and bar him from participating in the Democratic primary debates. If the DNC recognizes Bernie as a Democrat, so should YOU!!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Hortensis]

215. Yes, Sanders is a temporary REGISTERED

Democrat again. It is official. As said, he has the paper to prove it, on file with the DNC.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

216. We can argue whether it's temporary or not... but thanks for at least acknowledging what is

common knowledge... that Bernie IS, in fact, a member of the Democratic Party.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[KitSileya]

231. How can it not be temporary, when he's already filed as and Independent in 2022?

At most, he's be a Democrat for 19 more months, and then he'll leave the party again.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

232. Guess we could ask President Sanders (D) at his initial press conference whether he intends

to step down midway through his first term.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[KitSileya]

235. Or we could ask him about it at the first debate,

and I bet he won't be the nominee.

[ehrnst]

287. Nope. You've been shown to be mistaken on that.

You're welcome.

[Eliot Rosewater]

323. LOL

And when the FACTS about who is really who come out, when I am proven absolutely correct, it wont matter.

The followers of any given personality simply will never accept truth if it conflicts with their idea of what is supposed to be.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

198. How do think Bernie is running in the 2020 Democratic primary, in which

only DEMOCRATS are allowed to run per DNC rules?! Bernie will also be appearing in the DEMOCRATIC primary debates, staying June 26-27, also requiring membership in the DEMOCRATIC party. So, you might want to contact the DNC and advise them that you have new information leading you to believe Bernie is no longer a Democrat. Good luck with that!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Thekaspervote]

55. Sanders is not a dem!! I'll say it again and agree with the other poster

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

131. Yup, Bernie IS a Dem... read the pledge he signed!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

175. He signed paperwork to run as an independent for Senate reelection in 2024...(nt)

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

177. Yup, change the subject... I would too if I were you and knew Bernie is a Democrat.

Just admit your mistake and move on!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

182. What mistake?

[ehrnst]

192. Actually, it's you that needs to admit your mistake.

https://www.senate.gov/senators/index.htm

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

195. OK so splain how Bernie's runnin for the 2020 Democratic nomination since only DEMOCRATS can do that

according to DNC rules... can't wait to hear this one!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

196. Because you are wrong, and he hasn't become a Democrat yet. Now splain to me why Senate.gov

is wrong to list him as an Independent today and not a Democrat?



https://www.senate.gov/senators/index.htm

Can't wait to hear that one!



I think he waited 10 minutes after the Convention in 2016 to announce that he was going back to the Senate as an Independent.

He is only ever a Democrat long enough to get on the ticket, and not a second more.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

197. Wrong! But, if you're being serious - I can't tell - you should contact the DNC...

since ONLY Democrats are allowed to run in the 2020 DEMOCRATIC primary and participate in the DEMOCRATIC primary debates.

So, you're saying he won't be on stage for the first Democratic debate on June 26-27? He'll be there alright... cuz Bernie IS a Democrat and he votes more with his fellow Democrats than most Democrats. That's just a fact, not an insult to Democrats... that's a compliment to Bernie and his Democratic voting record!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

288. WRONG, as you have been shown by the current, updated Friday Senate.gov website.

So, you're saying he won't be on stage for the first Democratic debate on June 26-27?

Strawman. But that's to be expected when you can't back up your claim.

As of Friday, he was an Independent. You don't seem to understand that signing a 'pledge' didn't instantly transubstantiate Bernie into an actual Democrat. If it did, why did he vote as an Independent in the Senate on April 11?

Still waiting for your explanation about that. Time travel?

cuz Bernie IS a Democrat and he votes more with his fellow Democrats than most Democrats.

WRONG again, as you have failed again and again to back up with facts or any links to when you "shared them time and time again," right here on DU.

Here's the search feature, in case you forgot where it is: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=search

That's just a fact, not an insult to Democrats..

That's just wishful thinking, and not a defense of Senator Sanders.

When you have links to those DU posts you keep saying you made with all those "statistics" you'll have more credibility.

[Neoma]

309. Honestly this seems a little silly.

It's a 2 party system and every single candidate is trapped into those 2 parties when it comes to trying to run for president. On more local elections there's more of a choice, and if there's a chance to squeeze by and vote for something different other than those 2 parties, most people take that chance because there are Republicans that don't quite fit in the Republican base anymore and progressives that until more recently felt they were being pushed out of the Democratic party entirely. He's always gotten the independent vote, and considering that we need all the non-democratic votes in the next election, I honestly don't think his local independence hinders him.

[ehrnst]

311. I know. However, bLue feels a need for Bernie to be called a Democrat, when as of this week

he is still identifying as an Independent and not a Democrat.

Silly indeed.

[Neoma]

312. He should be considered an equal Democratic candidate for president.

Despite his politics on a more local level. Slinging his independence stance as an insult is how he's perceiving what you're saying.

[ehrnst]

314. No, bLue is insisting that he is currently actually a self-identified Democrat, since the moment

he signed the pledge, to the point of frantically accusing the Senate.gov website of being "out of date" for continuing to list him as an independent. This is about reality vs imagination at this point, and people here have been trying to point out what is and is not fact to bLue.

bLue is feeling defensive because she/he's been asked for citations for their claims, and then claims they've given them "many times" but just can't seem to be able to point out where.

It is silly, indeed.

[Neoma]

317. Either way.

I think saying Bernie is a Democratic candidate for president of the United States is not wrong. Saying he is a democratic candidate is not wrong.

[ehrnst]

320. If that's all bLue is saying, that would true.

bLue is saying that Sanders became a Democrat by every definition the moment that he agreed to the pledge to run in an election as a Democrat.

That's just not the case according to the Senate.gov website. Being shown that has caused multiple posts with defensive and insulting backlash, instead of a measured, reasoned response like yours.

bLue seems to be very, very emotional about his/her candidate, and reacts very badly at times to facts that don't support those emotional responses to Sanders.

If someone lashes out at people who point these things out, they are not going to fare well in a discussion.

[Neoma]

321. Ok.

Personally I think the Russian government drove a huge wedge between Bernie and Hillary supporters and it's time to realize that and start the healing process. We need to stand as United as possible for the next election and we're still at huge risk of more of the same going into the next election.

[ehrnst]

322. I think that someone lashing out at fellow Democrats when they are presented with facts

is widening that wedge.

Facts matter, and reacting badly to them was part of what made the Russian propaganda work for so many.

[we can do it]

88. BS has never been a Democrat.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

92. Wrong, wrong, wrong! Bernie's also more of a Democrat than most Democrats based on his voting record

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[we can do it]

94. I is not and never will be D.

nO mAtTeR hOw MaNy TiMeS yOu SaY iT.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

98. No, BUT an I with a SMILE ... I + ) ... IS a D!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[we can do it]

100. 😂

[ehrnst]

187. He's listed on Senate.gov as (I-V) not (D-V)

https://www.senate.gov/senators/index.htm

You're welcome.

[Demsrule86]

103. He is not a member of the party. You can say he is like a Democrat, but you have to join

to be a Democrat,. He has made it clear how he feels about thre Democratic party by running as a Democrat and changing parties once he wins.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

109. Read the pledge Bernie signed... it's President Sanders (D)!! How clear is that?!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Demsrule86]

111. He is running as a Democrat. He Agreed to remain a Democrat after the election

Internet 16 but did not.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

115. I trust President Sanders (D) to keep his word... so should you.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

188. You mean Senator Sanders (I-V)?

https://www.senate.gov/senators/index.htm

[ehrnst]

148. So why is he listed as (I-V) on Senate.gov?

Last edited Fri Apr 19, 2019, 12:19 PM - Edit history (1)

https://www.senate.gov/senators/index.htm

You're welcome.

[Power 2 the People]

143. +1000

[ehrnst]

144. Can you define "more of a Democrat than most Democrats?

And can you explain these votes?

With Republicans against Russian sanctions: 2012 Magnitsky Act- Nay 2014 Russia Sanctions- Nay 2017 Russia Sanctions- Nay (twice)

January 16, 2019 Bernie Sanders did not show up to vote on sanctions, even though he was on the Hill.

Opposed the Brady Act, which mandated federal background checks for gun purchasers and restricted felons’ access to firearms https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/103-1993/h614

Opposed legislation that would've maintained or created over 300,000 small business jobs through loans
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/1993/roll188.xml

Opposed attempts to prevent GOP cuts for benefits for legal immigrants, Medicaid, the disabled, and children safety nets http://clerk.house.gov/evs/1996/roll329.xml

Opposed Democratic attempts to increase funding for legal immigrants and child care http://clerk.house.gov/evs/1996/roll329.xml

Opposed federal funding to help the homeless http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2003/roll032.xml

Opposed increased funding for nutritional programs for women infants and children http://clerk.house.gov/evs/1995/roll708.xml

Opposed funding for assisting prospective homeowners with AIDS http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2003/roll032.xml

Opposed allowing breastfeeding on federal grounds http://clerk.house.gov/evs/1999/roll426.xml

Opposed legiation requiring federal agencies to create and enforce anti-sex discrimination policies http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2003/roll032.xml

Opposed legislation banning imports from forced child labor http://clerk.house.gov/evs/1997/roll474.xml

Opposed funding going towards investigations of unfair trade practices http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2003/roll032.xml

Opposed increased education funding http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2003/roll032.xml

Opposed increases funding for poor students http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2003/roll032.xml

Opposed legislation increasing financial aid http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2003/roll032.xml

Supported gutting oversight for agricultural marketing practices http://clerk.house.gov/evs/1995/roll550.xml

Opposed increased food safety and inspection http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2003/roll032.xml

And then there's Sierra Blanca - which Paul Wellstone called "environmental racism." Just google it for the fallout.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

146. By comparison... NO QUESTION!! Splains Bernie's overwhelming popularity.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

150. Compared to what?

Not able to back it up with numbers? You know, math? Like you think that 58% polled aren't going to vote for him again this time around is "Overwelming support!"

You haven't ever shown that you actually know what his voting record is, or even where to find it, but you just keep saying WRONG! to anyone who shows that they do know.

You also avoided my other question. Uncomforatable defining what "more of a Democrat than most Democrats" actually means?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

157. Other Democrats, doh! You know Bernie votes w/ fellow Democrats an OVERWHELMING majority of the time

more than most other Democrats, by comparison. That makes Bernie more of a Democrat than most Democrats. You know that's true... or, as YOU would say, you DO know math, yes??


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

164. So where are your numbers?

"You know it's true" isn't numbers.

You know Bernie votes w/ fellow Democrats an OVERWHELMING majority of the time more than most other Democrats, by comparison.

First - he's not a "fellow Democrat."

And how can he vote with "fellow Democrats" more than "most other Democrats?" How is that logically possible?

But by all means... prove me wrong. Show us the numbers that you claim exist, because I haven't seen them.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

174. Yup, Bernie IS a fellow Democrat... and you already have the numbers...

we've discussed them numerous times before. Stop pretending otherwise.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

185. As of 5 minutes ago. Senate.gov lists him as Independent. You're wrong.

https://www.senate.gov/senators/index.htm

You're welcome.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

209. Nope, just because a website has not been updated doesn't save you from being wrong.

If you were right, then Bernie would not be included in the first Democratic primary debate coming up in two months... it's okay for you to admit you're wrong. It's not a big deal, unless you make it one!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

237. Wrong again. Senate.gov is the source... and it's updated every day.

If you were right, then Bernie would not be included in the first Democratic primary debate coming up in two months...

That's two months away. He signed a pledge that he would become a Democrat, not a document saying that he is one... His current votes in the Senate are still listed not as Democratic, but Independent. That's official, not imaginary.

it's okay for you to admit you're wrong, and it's wishful thinking, not reality. It's not a big deal, unless you make it one!!

[George II]

172. What "math" is it that you speak of? Specifics? Details? Any? I'm home for the day....

....I've got time to wait. Thanks in advance.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

176. The math I've given you numerous times... you've had it for quite some time now.

It doesn't change each time you demand it.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[George II]

202. No you haven't, not even once.

[ehrnst]

238. I've never seen this math. If you shared it once, you can easily share it again.

Please show us that you didn't imagine that you shared it.

Just a simple link will prove you right and us wrong. Until then, more than one person has stated that you didn't ever share the statistics with us that "Bernie votes with Democrats more often than most Democrats do."

As long as one refuses to back up one's statements, copy and paste posts makes it look as though one knows one is wrong and frantically trying to gaslight people.

Just admit it, it's not working, and people are going to call you out on it as long as you keep pushing unfounded 'statistics.'

[George II]

158. Compared to whom and on what basis. I know that's been claimed over and over again, but....

....never with any specifics. Do you have any?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

163. Read... ↑

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[George II]

165. So, no specifics.....again. Thanks!

[ehrnst]

167. Read what? Someone's wishful thinking?

Last edited Sat Apr 20, 2019, 08:22 AM - Edit history (1)

You can't link to wishful thinking...

[BlueFlorida]

224. Numbers? Math? Who needs those?

[George II]

156. That has already been disproven several times, and nothing specific has ever been put forth...

...to support your claim.

Sorry, facts are facts.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

159. You must enjoy being wrong... it's simple math, look it up!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

170. So it's just wishful thinking, and not based in fact.

Because if you can't even provide the numbers that support your favorite candidate, who else can?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

173. I've given you the numbers... you have them and you know what I'm saying is true.

Stop pretending otherwise... though, I do find it somewhat amusing. Can't you just give Bernie credit, where credit is due?!

Say it with me... Bernie is a Democrat and votes like the Democrat he is more than most of his fellow Democrats, making Bernie more of a Democrat than most Democrats.

But, of course, you already knew that!! Check the math you've already received.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

183. Then where are the numbers? You can't seem to provide them here, that's for sure.

Prove us all wrong and just show us the numbers...

Bernie is a Democrat and votes like the Democrat he is more than most of his fellow Democrats, making Bernie more of a Democrat than most Democrats.

Bernie is an Independent, AS PER SENATE.GOV today.... not a fellow Democrat, and you have not provided any numbers for your claim that "he votes with Democrats more than most Democrats," as if that's possible.

Check the math you've already received.

Stop pretending that you have actually provided numbers, though I find your repeated attempts at gaslighting and bashing "most Democrats" for being "less Democratic" than an Independent somewhat amusing.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

204. It's not bashing Democrats, but a tribute to Bernie's Democratic-ness, that he votes

with Democrats more than most Democrats. You should at least acknowledge that fact, which you know to be true.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

205. Still evading backing your up your claims with actual numbers...

Can you at least acknowledge the fact that you have no idea what the actual numbers are, and you are simply convinced of Bernie's "democratic-ness" because you simply wish it to be true, and need no real evidence?

You've already been shown you are wrong about the facts his current party status, despite many, many frantic protestations to the contrary in this thread alone..

Just own that this isn't about logic, or math, it's about being a booster. Trying to shoehorn facts into what is faith-based never works. Cheerleaders don't need a winning record to yell, "We're Number One!" or "We're proud of our boys!" at a pep rally - the team's actual record isn't the point of "team spirit." However if you confuse "team spirit" with an actual analysis of the team by those who are not cheerleaders, then you run into what you're experiencing here - reality that doesn't conform to one's faith.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

207. No, I know the numbers, cuz I've given them to you before...

its around 90% of the time Bernie votes with the Democrats on bills, compared to the average Democrat, which is closer to 80%. Ring any bells??It's okay to admit the math,c which makes Bernie more of a Democrat than most Democrats. But, go ahead, continue to deny it.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

239. You can type any numbers you like that are in your head...

But where are they in the real world?

Because he's ranked only the 9th most progress Senator behind eight actual Democrats. How can that be if what you typed is true? Four of the other candidates for POTUS have voted more progressively than Sanders, according to this survey:



https://progressivepunch.org/scores.htm?house=senate


Let start with something easy: Where did you find the "80%" stat about how the "average Democrat" votes that you've been typing?

Wait - are you embarassed to share your sources? Chain e-mail? A site that one isn't supposed to link to on DU?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

240. LMFAO!! Do you EVER get tired of changing the subject to try to prove you're right?!

Obviously not... cause you're wrong... again!! You know I'm not saying Bernie's ranked as the most progressive Democratic Senator according to his voting record. That's not my point at all... but, let me repeat it for you one more time in case you missed it: Bernie votes with his fellow Democrats more often than most other Democrats.

It's really okay to admit when you're wrong... there's no shame in it. Better you not say anything at all, rather than keep changing the subject to set up a "strawman argument" about something I didn't say, all to avoid admitting Bernie votes with his fellow Democrats more than most other Democrats.

It won't kill you to say something nice about Bernie and just admit what is so obviously true. I've cited you the math in the past, many times... what's funny is you took all the time to look up Bernie's progressive ranking and publish it... so, everyone knows if you could show I'm wrong about Bernie voting with Democrats more often than most other Democrats, you would have done the 15-second Google search it would have taken you and published that instead.

The fact that you didn't do that and, instead, changed the subject to concoct a "strawman argument," as usual, tells everyone you know I'm right about Bernie voting with his fellow Democrats more often than most other Democrats.

It's just a fact... as plain as the nose on your face.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

247. Just repeating and repeating and repeating with nothing to back it up.

Nothing whatsoever.

Providing actual citations will contradict what you imagine to be true. It's just a fact...as plain as the nose on your face.

It won't kill you to say something nice about Bernie and just admit what is so obviously true.

Still no back up for your claims, and calling someone else mean for asking you for basic backup doesn't change that. Would providing the facts to back up your logically questionable claims be "not nice" to your favorite politician? Do you think that he couldn't hold up to your providing the comparison of voting records that you claim shows that he "votes more with Democrats than most Democrats?"

That doesn't seem to show much confidence in him, no matter how much you take on faith about him.

so, everyone knows if you could show I'm wrong about Bernie voting with Democrats more often than most other Democrats, you would have done the 15-second Google search it would have taken you and published that instead.

That's a new one - trying to turn it into a "you haven't proven a negative, so you must be wrong" fallacy. Let's add that to the list of things you type instead of actually providing the information that you claim you have provided many, many times, but refuse to do so again, even though it would prove me wrong.

Again, just because you think it, doesn't make it fact. Don't believe everything you think, bLue.

[mcar]

212. Prove it

Should be easy enough to do.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

217. I have... you can too! It' s a 15-second Google search!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

249. So why don't you do it, then show us.

It sounds like you can't, but hide behind "Do it yourself."

Are you worried it will prove you wrong? That maybe you didn't really get those numbers right?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

241. I have proven it many times, maybe not to you... cant remember if you've been involved

in this same discussion over the years about Bernie voting with his fellow.Democrats more often than most other Democrats. But, it's onIy a 15-second Google search if you're REALLY interested in knowing the truth.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[mcar]

242. Then it should be easy enough to post the link here

[ehrnst]

274. Links, please.

Very easy with a search on DU:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=search

Care to put your money where your mouth is?

I can't find any posts by you that you claim you posted about this topic.

The only logical explanation is that you imagined you posted these, when you didn't.

[George II]

203. Tell you what, once I'm wrong I'll let you know how it feels. Until then, you've never provided...

....any specifics or "math". Got any?

[ehrnst]

206. Amen. (nt)

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

208. Gave you all the numbers during a prior election that cannot and will not be mentioned...

where the same issue came up over and over and over again. But, I don't need to make reference to it, and the context in which the issue came up, as I'm sure you remember.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[George II]

210. No you didn't, but whatever. You're basing Sanders' "standing" with Democrats in the Senate....

...on 3 year old data? Even if it was correct, a LOT has gone on since three years ago.

So:

How do you reconcile his multiple votes against the Democrats' position regarding the Brady Bill?
How do you reconcile his multiple votes against the Democrats' position regarding the Russia Sanctions?
How do you reconcile his multiple votes against the Democrats' position regarding the Magniski Act?

And there are so many more. However, one more thing. How do you explain the more progressive voting records of some of his opponents?

https://progressivepunch.org/scores.htm?house=senate

Crucial lifetime votes (number is rank):

1 Harris
2 Warren
4 Booker
7 Gillibrand
9 Sanders

Crucial votes this session:

1 tie Booker
1 tie Gillibrand
1 tie Warren
16 Harris
17 tie Sanders

Overall votes lifetime

1 Warren
3 Harris
4 Gillibrand
5 Booker
8 Sanders

Overall this session

1 tie Booker
1 tie Gillibrand
1 tie Warren
10 Harris
11 Sanders

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

219. Okay, at least you're admitting I was right... that's progress.

Last edited Tue Apr 23, 2019, 01:58 PM - Edit history (1)

If now, you'd rather NOT compare Bernie to ALL Democrats and limit the pool to just his fellow Democratic candidates, that's a different subject and has NOTHING to do with the one we're debating... that Bernie is more of a Democrat than most Democrats based on his voting record. But, thanks again for backing up my true statement, which is NOT a bash to Bernie's fellow Democrats... it's a testament to BERNIE. You know, not everything politically related needs to be a zero-sum game!!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[George II]

222. "Okay, at least you're admitting I was right"...no I'm not. I'm shocked you read that in my post...

So you won't answer any of the questions put forth or venture a guess as to why he's voted against the Democratic position even though he's votes with them "more than any other Democrat" (your words a day or two ago)

Once again lots of buzz words and vague statements, but nothing specific. Never a direct response, ever:

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

228. Your own rankings prove my point... pretending otherwise doesn't change that.

Given those rankings, even if they came after the statistics I previously gave you, they STILL show Bernie voting with Democrats more often than most of his fellow Democrats. I know you like changing the subject, in this case, by making a different comparison, to distract and avoid having to admit the point I was making was correct... that's perfectly understandable.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[George II]

229. .

I was always a big fan of Fred Astaire, loved the way his last wife rode up at Saratoga.

[ehrnst]

251. What statistics you previously gave us?

they STILL show Bernie voting with Democrats more often than most of his fellow Democrats.

So why don't you just put this to rest, instead of copying and pasting the same sentences again and again?

I know you like changing the subject, in this case, by making a different comparison, to distract and avoid having to admit the point I was making was correct... that's perfectly understandable.

How is that stopping you from sharing those stats with us again? Is it because you imagined those statistics because they were "saying something nice about Bernie" like you want other people to?

Show us that you didn't just imagine those voting records, because you misunderstood someone saying something else nice about Sanders, and thought that they were voting statistics.

It doesn't take much to admit you are wrong about this. Even less time that it would take you to find those posts you think that you shared with us.

We'll be right here when you're ready.

[ehrnst]

279. That made no sense whatsoever.

Just some very defensive accusations that aren't based in any accurate representation of the post of you are responding to, and repeating of previously discredited statements.

I think you may want to engage the ignore function, so you won't get upset and lash out when people discuss facts about someone you feel a need to protect.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

282. The truth hurts, I know... ouch, that's gotta Bern!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

283. Oh, Honey...

Since you seemed to have missed this:

Denial is a defense mechanism in which a person, faced with a painful fact, rejects the reality of that fact. They will insist that the fact is not true despite what may be overwhelming and irrefutable evidence.

But we'll be here when you decide to apologize to everyone here you've insulted in this thread when they point out your mistakes, and your inability to back up your various claims with anything other than copying and pasting the same debunked statements over and over.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

290. The truth musta left a "third-degree Bern"... can see where that would hurt.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

291. Nailed, didn't I?

Not even trying to defend those debunked claims anymore, huh.

Sometimes not doing one's credibilty more damage is the only thing left, I guess.

But just in case... here's that search feature that could prove the rest of us wrong on one thing you typed.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=search



But even when the team is losing...

[ehrnst]

273. I think you're embarassed about your previous posts.

That they aren't really accurate, and you didn't really remember what you posted.

Is that it?

Or is it the source of your "statistics?" Chain email? RT? YT? Intercept?

People respect someone far more if they can just own up to their mistakes, far more than when they evade or double down.

I mean, if facts are what you consider to be "Bernie bashing," you're going to want to stay off DU for the duration... or the internet in general.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/senate-yemen-war-vote_n_5ab15ea7e4b008c9e5f226aa

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2019/apr/17/fact-checking-bernie-sanders-town-hall-fox-news/

https://hillreporter.com/bernie-sanders-accuses-center-for-american-progress-creating-smears-against-progressive-candidates-31013

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/bernie-sanders-wont-back-house-democrats-obamacare-bill.html

[ehrnst]

297. FACTS! DATA!

[ehrnst]

250. Why does that stop you from providing those numbers you claim exist?

Yet another excuse for not sharing the numbers that you say you've done many times before?

You could search DU for the posts where you shared them. It would take less than trying to google them - which clearly you aren't able to do.

We'll wait, though. We'll be right here when you're done.

[lapucelle]

324. i LOokEd iT uP

116th Congress



115th Congress



Here's what BS has had to say about his party affiliation:

February 2016

Right now I am the ranking member of the Budget Committee, appointed by the Democratic leadership and membership. A couple of years ago I was very proudly the chairman of the Senate Veterans Committee. So of course I am a Democrat and running for the Democratic nomination.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/03/politics/democratic-town-hall-transcript/

May 2017

'No, I'm an Independent,' Sanders said when asked by MSNBC's Chris Hayes whether he now identifies as a Democrat".

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/329418-sanders-i-do-not-consider-myself-a-democrat

September 2017

"In my view, Chuck, what we need to do is to reach out to Independents. There are a heck of a lot more Independents in this country than there are Republicans or Democrats. I am an Independent. I've always been a Democrat. I have worked within the Democratic caucus in the House and the Senate for over 25 years. I'll continue to do that."

https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meet-press-september-17-2017-n802121

wOulD yOu lIKe A DOnUt?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

327. "I've always been a DEMOCRAT"... so there you have it!! And Bernie is a Democrat NOW!!

Thank you for confirming what I've been saying. If Bernie wasn't a Democrat, he couldn't run in the 2020 Democratic primary or appear in the Democratic primary debates. It's really just that simple!!

Oh, and I LOVE donuts... thanks!!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[lapucelle]

331. "I am an Independent. I've always been a Democrat" (September 2017)

October 2017...

Sen. Bernie Sanders put to rest questions about his party affiliation, telling a Fox News reporter he’ll continue to run as an independent.

“I am an independent and I have always run in Vermont as an independent, while I caucus with the Democrats in the United States Senate,” Sanders said Sunday after an appearance in Rollinsford, N.H.

Take the whole box...

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

335. "I am a member of the Democratic Party" - Bernie... that's all I really need to know.

One more donut... happy to share the rest, thanx!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[lapucelle]

338. How sad.

And we wonder why Trump was elected.

[ehrnst]

334. Um... read that again, Hon.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

336. "I am a member of the Democratic Party" - Bernie... you might want to read THAT!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

337. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt...

So, if he "has always been a Democrat" literally, as you seem to think, are you saying that he was lying when he said this?

Sanders: I don't consider myself a Democrat

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said Tuesday night that he still does not consider himself a Democrat despite taking part in a Democratic National Committee (DNC) unity tour with the party's new chairman, Tom Perez.

"No, I'm an Independent," Sanders said when asked by MSNBC's Chris Hayes whether he now identifies as a Democrat.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/329418-sanders-i-do-not-consider-myself-a-democrat

I found this with a simple Google, and you can't seem to locate those previous DU post you keep saying that you posted...

[ehrnst]

339. Sanders: "I don't consider myself a Democrat"

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/329418-sanders-i-do-not-consider-myself-a-democrat

You still haven't answered this: What Democrats hire former Jill Stein supporters who have trashed the party as senior campaign staff?

Someone "whose always been a Democrat?"

Perhaps his run for POTUS is an entirely different part of his career than the one that serves Vermont?

[ehrnst]

351. So you're using an article all the way back from 2017 to confirm your position on what Bernie is now

Isn't that interesting?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

352. Nope, using updated information from April 2019 that Bernie is a member of the Democratic party.

Sorry... you're wrong again!! But keep tryin!! Pretend you don't know Bernie is a Democrat... it's amusing, I'll give you that!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

353. Nope. I guess you didn't read the post you responded to... he said that in 2017

Here's what you were quoting, Dear.



And you just LOL'd at other posts because they were FROM 2017!!!!





BTW - did you call Bernie's office yet?

This is from TODAY. Give him a call and ask why this is an I instead of a D, if you're not scared of being "proven right."

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

354. Nope, read it. Mere quoting what the poster said - accurately BTW - which agreed with my point

that you keep avoiding, understandably so, which all along has been that Bernie currently IS a member of the Democratic Party... how else could he be running for the 2020 Democratic Party's presidential nomination and participate in the Democratic primary debates? I know you don't want to answer that question, so you keep making irrelevant points that have nothing to do with the fact that the DNC recognizes Bernie as a Democrat.

If you seriously don't think Bernie is a member of the Democratic Party, I suggest you take it up with the DNC... I'm sure they would be glad to hear from you and have you register your complaint about Bernie. Good luck with that!!




Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

355. That call to Bernie's office didn't go well? Or are you still scared to prove "you're right?"

Again.... he...is...only...a...Democratic....POTUS....CANDIDATE....he's....an...INDEPENDENT....SENATOR...not...a...Democratic..politician.

He doesn't serve as a Democratic Senator, he puts on that hat only when he campaigns for POTUS, then removes it when he goes to the office he was elected to. Being a Senator, and a POTUS candidate are two completely separate things. He's not a Democratic Senator - even his OFFICE says so.

See?



You won't call his office because you know I'm right. But you'll still go on saying "you like being wrong!!!" even though NOBODY but you thinks that anyone believes you don't know that you've been proven wrong. We know just wounded ego on your part that's keeping up this sad, sad, game of "whatever you say bounces off me and goes back on you!!! All of you! LOL!!!"



You can't even admit that you can't take your own medicine when it's put right in front of your face, Champ.





You still haven't answered this: What Democrats hire former Jill Stein supporters who have trashed the party mny times as senior campaign staff?

(furious attempt to find a previous post to copy and paste with ROFL emojis ensues)

Still don't have the courage to admit you never provided any stats or math to support your claim about his voting records, let alone to me, let alone "many times".... even though we all know you didn't, Hon. And we know you know you didn't.

Even when the team is 0-20 with minutes to go, the truly dedicated cheerleader keeps on yelling, "WE'RE NUMBER ONE!!!!" like that will make it real, even when everyone in the stands is leaving and laughing at that frantic cheerleader who is angry that people WON'T HELP!!" The team still loses though, they're not number one, and every knows it. No amount of clapping will make a fairy come to life.

Always good for a belly laugh, bLue, we'll give you that.

CaRrY oN...

v

[NurseJackie]

243. No he's not.

Bernie's also more of a Democrat than most Democrats based on his voting record

This is a myth that has been debunked. He votes with the Democrats about 80% of the time.

The claim that he's "more of a Democrat that Democrats" is laughably absurd.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

244. LOL..oooops, you cited the same 80% statistic that I did, which is more often than most Democrats

vote on bills with their fellow Democrats. EXACTLY!! Thanks... you made my point!!




Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

253. You haven't provided any statistics that support your claim about other

Democrats that he "votes more often with than they do themselves."

Which makes no sense, logically, and you can't seem to provide the proof you say that you have done "many times in the past."

Nice try at trying to evade backing your claims up yet again!



We'll be here when you admit that you imagined that other part of your claim by mistake.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

256. It doesn't make logical sense cuz I never said that!! Good try again tho!!

Keep makin stuff up... you're doing fake quotes now... too funny!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

257. Yet another tactic... deny you ever made up what you made up!

I guess that's less painful than the facts!

But we'll be here when you have all those links and stats you said you have provided so many times, but can't seem to produce now.



Carry on!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

258. Do you even read what you write?!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

259. And now we have "I know you are but what am I?"

We'll be here when you post those "stats and evidence" that you keep typing that you have shared so often that supports your claims.

Or if you finally decide to admit that you didn't, and you can't even find them in a simple google search.

People can respect someone that comes clean, and says, "I just really like this guy, and it makes me mad when someone points out something that doesn't match my image of him. Facts aren't as important as how this politician makes me FEEL."

Think about that, and come back with either the stats, or an apology for all the insults and accusations that you've hurled instead of supporting your claims with facts.

It will be less exhausting than the continual denial and whack a mole, copy and paste defensive posts.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

261. Clever!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

262. Still waiting for that "evidence" you claim you have "posted many times"

No?



How about that apology to everyone you've insulted who simply pointed that out? Or simply admitting it was at best, an evasion.

Your imagination is not an adequate citation.

It must be exhausting to keep this up.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

263. Not at all... the truth speaks for itself.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

264. Still no truth based backup for those claims? Still no voting records?

Nor even a simple, single link to those posts you claim you've shared so many times...

So until you show otherwise, which you repeatedly fail to do in every one of your numerous responses, it's something you imagined is true, but not actually.

But we'll be here when you decide to either produce these posts, or admit that that facts just aren't the reason you support who you do.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

266. Truth?! From the guy that makes up quotes?! Okay, THAT was funny!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

267. Projection?

When you're ready to share those posts that you claim you wrote "many times" let us know, K?

[ehrnst]

138. Have you heard some news the rest of us haven't? (nt)

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

160. No... you've heard the news too.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

162. No, I haven't. Please provide a source that he is now a Democrat, like you say.

Prove us wrong.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

169. I've provided you the source numerous times in countless other threads. Pretending you don't know

is amusing, but is not fooling anyone.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

171. Actually, no, you haven't. And Senate.gov shows you're wrong...

https://www.senate.gov/senators/index.htm

But do go ahead and prove me wrong, and show me where Senate.gov is wrong, and Bernie is currently a Democrat.

Pretty simple way to show us all that you're the one who's right and the rest of us are in denial.

[ehrnst]

186. Senate.gov hasn't "heard the news" He's listed as Independent...

https://www.senate.gov/senators/index.htm

You're welcome.

[ehrnst]

168. You never actually show that anyone is wrong about this.

You just contradict them.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

230. Nope... voting records are readily available. I've gven you Bernie's in the past, so you know

Bernie votes with Democrats at a higher rate than most other Democrats. Just a fact... it's an easy look up - 15 second google search - which is why I was only too happy to previously link you to it... so you might as well admit it.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

234. I don't think you even know how to find those records, so I don't think you know

Last edited Sat Apr 20, 2019, 03:25 PM - Edit history (2)

anything about actual votes. Because if you did, you'd give me the results of your "15 second google" where you found the statistics of Bernie's voting record, vs Democrats that proves that he "votes with them more than most Democrats do." Are you also counting when he doesn't show up for a vote as "voting with the Democrats" too?

So you might as well admit it. You have a vivid imagination, and facts about Bernie make you uncomfortable.

Now go ahead and simply repeat what you have said before to avoid backing your statements up. You can't name the other Democrats that vote "less with other Democrats" than Bernie, let alone "most of them."

We'll be here when you decide to tell us you are imagining those comparative vote statistics, since you can't seem to show us that they're real.

[ehrnst]

236. Nope, you haven't. If you have, you would be "only too happy" to share it right now. But you can't.

Last edited Sat Apr 20, 2019, 09:13 AM - Edit history (1)

If one's imagination is one's source, one can't link to that, so you might as well admit it.

Facts presented here on this thread contradict your claims.

Carry on.

[we can do it]

87. BS is no Democrat.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

260. You should let the DNC know... they'll need to get Bernie off the ballot and the debate stage.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

265. You should let the Senate know that they are "wrong" about Bernie being an Independent....

Let us know how that goes, K?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

268. Don't tell me... tell the DNC and have them remove Bernie from the ballot and debate stage.

All your imagined dreams will come true!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

269. Have you contacted the Senate to tell them they're wrong about him being an Independent?

PLEASE let us know what they say...



Or can you show us where the pledge he signed states that he has to register as an actual Democrat before the GE? Because you haven't done that, honey.

In the meantime... still waiting for links to those posts you say you wrote, "many times."

Or when you finally admit that they don't exist, and facts aren't really why you support who you do...

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

272. No, as I'm not bothered in the least by an out-of-date website listing.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

275. Updated daily when Senate is in session. But splain us this, bLue...

Here's the latest Senate vote roll call from April 11, 2019... so even if that was the latest the website was updated, it renders false your claim that Bernie was transubstantiated into a Democrat the very moment he signed the pledge to run in as a Democrat in the GE and serve as a Democrat in the event that he wins the general, let alone the primary:

Denial is a defense mechanism in which a person, faced with a painful fact, rejects the reality of that fact. They will insist that the fact is not true despite what may be overwhelming and irrefutable evidence.

Still waiting for those links to those DU posts you claim you wrote, but can't seem to provide any links to.

This doesn't lend credibility to one's judgement as to what and doesn't constitute fact.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

277. Everyone makes mistakes... you of all people should know that given all the ones you've made lately.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

278. So you admit you haven't provided the evidence you claim,?

Are you saying now that you are mistaken on your claims? Well, that's progress.

Is that an apology for all the defensive, angry accusations you've made when people merely pointed out that you haven't done as you've said, and that you were wrong to do so? Including the post in which I am responding to, where you claim with no actual evidence that I'm wrong when I correct you with facts?

Including your assertion that Senate.gov is out of date, when it's used as a citation to refute your protestations that Bernie is currently a Democrat?

(see the date at the top of the page...)
https://www.congress.gov/congressional-record

Apology accepted. Now, stopping with the false accusations towards people who are simply postiting facts would indicate that you really want to learn.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

280. No, not saying that at all.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

281. Sounded like you admitted mistakes. Unless you don't include yourself in "everyone?"

I've shown your statement about Senate.gov to be false - mistaken, if you rather, and pointed out that you haven't provided any evidence of the posts you said you posted, or evidence to back up what you typed about Sanders' vote record.

Are you going to continue to lash out at people who correct you or simply ask you to provide backup for your statements?

I suggest you use the ignore feature, because things are going to get more disturbing and frustrating for you as reasonable people discuss facts about the candidate you feel so protective of.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

329. LOL, I don't mind admitting to mistakes at all... when I'm wrong.

I know Bernie is now a Democrat, just like I knew Bernie would submit his 10 years of tax returns. You were wrong about that too... but, I don't remember seeing you admit you were wrong.

Sorry you feel lashed out against... that's truly NOT my attention. But, you've been VERY unfair to Bernie... my only intention is draw your attention to that fact and get you to rethink your anti-Bernie bias.

There's more that unite us than divides us, including Bernie's progressive agenda. Why can't you see this?! Spreading misinformation about Bernie is not going to get us where we need to go... and that's defeating pee-Resident tRump.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

333. Doubling down again...

Gymnastics to avoid facts doesn't make one a good gymnast, nor a good cheerleader.

Sorry you feel threatened by any facts that don't support what you have decided to believe. Why can't you see this?!

Believing misinformation about Bernie is not going to get us where we need to go. My only intention is draw your attention to that fact and get you to rethink your need to slap down anyone who says anything but cheerleading for Bernie.

But, you've been VERY defensive and reactive to facts. This isn't a Bernie pep session, it's a discussion board.

Let us know what his staff says about his party affiliation, and when you finally decide to admit that you never did post "those facts many times" here on DU.

Until then, carry on...

Denial is a defense mechanism in which a person, faced with a painful fact, rejects the reality of that fact. They will insist that the fact is not true despite what may be overwhelming and irrefutable evidence.

[billpolonsky]

24. Precisely

Interesting article in POLITICO today

[link:https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/04/17/democrats-your-stars-are-socialists-226661?fbclid=IwAR3l4OP0TjaUR1KMd3g_4NZzoIJVuHllkPlJ95JXbhvYgvuZfcdj0ztBBck|

[Blue_true]

41. Why is the shit does the point you're trying to make matter.

The fact is that a large number of Sanders supporters will try to blow the country up if they don't get their way.

I prefer to go after true democrats that stupidly didn't vote because they felt Hillary was a lock than to waste ONE SECOND with a Bernie supporters who does not instantly get behind our nominee. No kid gloves with them this time, they either play ball immediately with us, or we go after them with the vengeance of hell right out of the gate.

[vsrazdem]

46. Who is this large number you are referring to and where do you get your facts from. Every Sanders

support I know that is a Democrat will vote for whoever wins the primary. I can't help what independents do with their vote, it they want to be traitors to their country there is nothing I can do about it. But frankly, I'm getting a little tired of constantly being put down and lumped in to these so-called horrible Sanders supporters. This Shit is getting old and its pretty early to start the Sanders supporter bashing.

[SergeStorms]

69. Like I said...

10% of Bernie supporters voted for Trump when they didn't get their way. Scorched earth policy? Between Russian interference and Bernie's caustic supporters Clinton never stood a chance.

[sweetloukillbot]

76. Are you going to vote for Trump?

If not, then you're not part of the percentage of Sanders supporters who the post is talking about. So why do you feel insulted by someone mentioning that SOME Sanders supporters voted for Trump?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

330. Same goes for all those Hillary supporters who voted for McCain... I agree.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[thesquanderer]

25. It's an overlapping but different set of Venn diagram circles.

Many 2016 Sanders supporters--who were often NOT registered Democrats--wanted an anti-establishment candidate. So when the choice became Clinton vs. Trump, it's not surprising that they went for Trump.

This is also basically the reason that many people feel that Sanders would have beaten Trump if that had been the 2016 matchup... i.e. he would have gotten virtually all the Dem votes that went to Hillary and he ALSO would have gotten a whole bunch of non-party-loyalist anti-establishment votes that went to Trump.

[Go Vols]

66. ty

[Kentonio]

11. That would be my first question.

If he's pulling in a significant number of independents/Republicans away from Trump, then that's a positive for us not a negative.

[SergeStorms]

16. 10% of Bernie supporters...

voted for Trump over Hillary. It's probably a wash.

I used to be a Sanders supporter. I gave over $400 to his campaign in 2015-2016 . Then I saw how "loyal" some of Sander's supporters were to the eventual Democratic nominee. So much for being a Bernie supporter again.

[vsrazdem]

35. I understand that, and 13% of Hillary suporters voted for McCain. That always happens.

[Celerity]

45. around 30% total of Hillary 2008 primary voters did not vote for Obama in the general

24 to 25% went to McCain, around 5% did not vote

https://www.democraticunderground.com/128775104#post29

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

53. ZIIIIIIINNNNGG!!!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Celerity]

60. It is nothing I am happy about, and tbf, other than DU Sanders supporters

I think the 2020 version of the group could top Clinton's record. I see extreme danger ahead, especially if Bernie loses at a multiple ballot and/or brokered convention.

The non DU Sanders crowd looks way way more radical and anti-Democratic Party to me than in 2016. I know you (DU Sanders people) get a lot of stick here for things the non DU radicals do, and I am sorry for that.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

63. I think you have a good grasp of the political reality at play that's both accurate and fair.

You get a tip of the hat from me... well done!!




Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Celerity]

65. seeing that the reality atm is so UTTERLY fucked up, I guess having a grasp on that makes me...

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

67. hahaha, yes!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

271. ....

Got links to those "many times" you gave evidence to back up what you keep typing and insist is real?

[Honeycombe8]

110. But Trump is no McCain. Apples & oranges.

We're talking an unethical, offensive, garbage man, who is probably a criminal, who treats people horribly, not too smart, unsuccessful business man...vs a war hero, intelligent, articulate, popular, beloved.

[Celerity]

124. beloved is a huge stretch, he was a right wing neocon ultra hawk

Yes, he did well with that healthcare vote, but it doesn't wash away the blood

[Demsrule86]

118. The rethugs were pretending to be Hillary supporters. Remember

Operation chaos ....Rush Limbaugh called on rethugs to vote for Hillary.

[Celerity]

166. Lets do a drill down

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rush_Limbaugh_Show#Operation_Chaos

Limbaugh started this around March 20, 2008, he urged Republicans to switch parties and vote for Hillary to tie up Obama

it only works in open primary states

It blew up in his face in one of the biggest (PA)

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article24481603.html



so lets give Hillary 33% of 10% of the total vote

76,156 Republican switchers

She did win late deciders, but those were mostly Democrats





Next open primaries were also big states Ohio and Texas

let's give Hillary 75% of 10% of the total votes in the combined (I doubt it was that high but lets play this really in her favour of the Chaos concept)



385,544 Republican switcher votes

and the final 2 states that were part of Operation Chaos

Indiana and North Carolina (Obama won NC, but I will be just as generous as Texas in both)



211,749 Republican switcher votes for Hillary

that's it for Operation Chaos

so the total she gained was 673,449 Republican Operation Chaos-eligible Rethug voters for Clinton

now, she overall had



18,046,007 total votes (taking the largest possible number)

so at most 3.73% percent of Republican votes from Operation Chaos went to Hillary

subtract out the 5% who didnt vote in the general

3.54%

lets say 90% of those late switch Repug voters went back to MacCain (which is higher than the rate MCain Rethug primary voters switched to Obama, which was 87%)

yields a grand total of 3.19% (and this is being REALLY generous to Operation chaos, and assumes ALL of those, every one that was a Rehug late switcher, were game playing Operation Chaos voters)

so around 22% were actual defections from Hillary to McCain (I would guess the real number was probably 23.5 to 24%) and NOT part of Operation Chaos

depending on what stats you use for Sanders defections to Trump (I have see anywhere from 5% to 12%) that is a 183% to 480% (an average of 331.5%, but my gut says it was around 220% to 230%) HIGHER rate from Hillary voters to McCain in 2008 versus Berners in 2016 who flipped to the orange bloat.

All that said, we really have to worry about 2020. Given the stats I am seeing, if (more like when) Bernie loses our primary (especially if it is highly contentious and goes to multiple ballots) I can see 26%, 30%, or even higher bailing directly to Trump, let alone the Greens or just staying home, as his new base is FAR less Democratic now than it was in 2016. Many are super hostile to our party and the other candidates.


Hope all this helped!

[Demsrule86]

190. The GOP really worked this...thinking they would destroy the eventual nominee...I moved that year

and my sis in Georgia says they were doing it there too...you can not determine who was pub and who wasn't in 2008...but we know in 16 because these folks admitted to it.

[ehrnst]

191. Facts....

Don't even bother.

[George II]

246. I would bet that most of those "Hillary" voters were in open primary states and....

....were republicans who would have voted for McCain anyway.

[Celerity]

248. Already adressed that above in great detail

[namahage]

326. And how many of Sanders 2016 voters did not vote for Hillary?

Seems that 49% is a good deal larger than 30% (7% Trump, 23% third party, 19% did not vote)

https://www.democraticunderground.com/128775007#post184

[Celerity]

343. those stats are for his CURRENT supporters, which is going to be a big issue in 2020, unfortunately

We can look at the 2016 Sanders primary supporters' numbers as well.

Obviously the 3rd party voters were a far smaller percentage in 2016 (it was around 8%) as 23%
of his 13,206,428 (and that number is actually around 13.75 -14 million, as it does not include popular vote totals from Iowa Caucuses (he got 85,055), Maine Caucuses, which has only district reps vote (2,226), Nevada Caucuses (9571) , North Dakota Caucuses (difficult to guess as they have delegates vote, and he had 253 in the districts), Washington (401,452 votes total for Sanders), Wyoming, or non-binding primary Nebraska primary (he got 37,744 votes)

is around 3.2 million votes. Stein only got 1,457,216 total votes (1.07%) nationwide. Also obviously, not every single one of her votes was a Bernie Dem voter. I will give number below of the percentage of Sanders 2016 primary voters who defected en toto below, but it was probably around 5% (If HALF her totals were Bernie voters) to 7% (if a full 70% of her total votes were Bernie primary voters who went Stein.) My guess based off 2012 numbers for her is that it was around 6%, and that turns out to be very close, as you wil see in the data below.

The danger when people show the total number numbers of Stein voters in the close states and say, 'Look, if you take ALL her votes and give them to Clinton, Clinton would have won easily!' is that a large chunk of her total voters would never vote for anything but the Green Party candidate, they are never Democratic or Republican voters, except for the one-off freak candidacy of Bernie in the primaries. Again, the real danger for us this time, in 2020 is that THIS group of 2020 Bernie voters are far, far less Democratic (many very hostile to us in fact) and far, far more radical than he had in 2016, so the haemorrhage is going to be far greater than in 2016 I fear.

so now lets drill down further


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/08/24/did-enough-bernie-sanders-supporters-vote-for-trump-to-cost-clinton-the-election/

How many Sanders voters voted for Donald Trump?

Two surveys estimate that 12 percent of Sanders voters voted for Trump. A third survey suggests it was 6 percent.

First, the political scientist Brian Schaffner analyzed the Cooperative Congressional Election Study, which was conducted by YouGov and interviewed 64,600 Americans in October-November 2016. In that survey, Schaffner found that 12 percent of people who voted in the primary and reported voting for Sanders also voted in November and reported voting for Trump.

Schaffner examined only voters whose turnout in the primary and general election could be validated using voter file data. This excludes people who said they voted but actually did not — although it also excludes people who voted in caucuses or party-run primaries, for which validated turnout data are not as readily available.

Second, the same 12 percent figure emerges in the 2016 VOTER Survey, which was also conducted by YouGov and overseen by the Democracy Fund Voter Study Group (of which I am research director). In 2016, this survey interviewed 8,000 respondents in July, when they were asked their primary vote preference, and then in December, when they were asked their general election preference. This has the advantage of measuring primary preference closer to the primaries themselves and then tracking people over time. But their turnout in both elections has not been validated as of yet.

The third survey is the RAND Presidential Election Panel Survey, which interviewed the same group of about 3,000 Americans six times during the campaign. Again, this survey has the advantage of tracking voters over time, but nobody’s turnout has been validated. Among voters who reported supporting Sanders as of March 2016, 6 percent then reported voting for Trump in November.

snip

I think the numbers of Bernie to Trump voters was probably around 10% overall (although I will show the numbers with 12% too). That 10% number is given here That link has a lot more data and goes into great depth, but at 10% Trump from Bernie defection rates, that would have swung the election to Hillary EXCEPT for one massive thing. The problem with saying those Berner to Trump voters made the diifrent completely ignores the Republican to Democratic switchers, as well. You cannot just pull out one set of switchers. Trump lost some support, too, of course. 34% of Kasich primary voters voted for Clinton. And 11% of Rubio primary voters did the same. Kasich had 4,290,448 votes, so 34% of that yields 1,458,752 Rethugs switching to Clinton, OR MORE than ALL of Bernie to Trump votes. Cruz had 7,822,100 Votes, so 11% of that yields 860,431 Rethug switches to Hillary. That is more votes than Bernie to Stein votes, or damn close. Next up is Rubio voters, who defected at a rate of 10%. Rubio had 3,515,576 votes, so that yields 351,558 Rehug to Hillary defections.

Add up those 3 numbers you get 2,670,741 Republican primary to Hillary general defection votes. That is just from THREE of losers, there were many other losing Repug smaller candidates who also had switchers to Clinton. The total was probably around 3 million Republican to Hillary switches.

If you take the 16% of Bernies 14 million primary votes (10% to Trump, 6% to Stein) that yields 2,240,000 Bernie to Trump defections, or far less than went the other way (Rethug to Clinton). In fact, lets say EVERY single Stein voter was a Bernie defector (Literally impossible in reality but lets do it just for fun). That yields 2,857,216 or so, which is still less than the total Rethug to Clinton total switches (counting all Repug primary voters).

I will now deal with last 2 categories. Non voters in the general and then the Gary Johnson general voters.

As for Sanders primary voters who didn't vote at all, it was only 3.5%. Hillary in 2008 had 5% of her primary voters not vote in the General. 5% of Republican primary voters didnt vote in the general.

A total of 8% went 3rd party from Bernie, so taking out Steins 6% (which I used in the calculation above) that leaves 2% who went to Johnson. That yields 280,000 votes. So the grand total of Bernie to other parties voters is 2,520,000 if you take the 10% to Trump number, or 2,800,000 if you give Trump a 12% Defection rate from Sanders primary. Still less than just Rethug primary voters who switched to Hillary. That is not even counting at all the Trump or any other candidates in the Rethug primary to Stein and especially Trump to Johnson switchers. Nor does it count the Rethug to Evan McMullin 732,273 votes (almost none came from Hillary or Bernie). Johnson took in a massive 4,489,233 votes. If only a third of the rate (so 4%, although I think it was higher, as he had 3 MILLION more votes than in 2012) defected from the Rethugs than did Bernie to Trump voters, that means Trump lost another 1,247,354 votes as there where 31,183,841 total votes cast in the Republican primaries.

That means over 5 MILLION defections from Trump to Hillary and 3rd parties, versus around 2.5m to 2.8 million defections away from Hillary via Bernie primary voters. Large net plus for Sec Clinton

The overall rate for Bernie primary voters who didnt vote for Sec Clinton and who voted for either Trump, Stein etc or didn't vote at all was 21.5% to 23.5% (depending if you give Trump 10 or 12% of their vote) versus a 30% defection/non vote rate from Obama for Hillary primary voters in 2008.

[artislife]

344. Thank you for this in depth

analysis and math.

I wish you would make an OP about it, but I think this site isn't ready for it. Too many hard feelings from all sides.

[Celerity]

345. The 2020 underlying fundamentals buttressing the Sanders supporters demographics

truly worry me. It is a petrol can looking for a swan vesta. So many structurally dissimilar metrics to 2016 in a negative way. A 40 to 45% (or higher) walk-away ratio, with a 25% or so possible straight to Trump vote quotient contained within that overall yield is not at all a good thing.

If Sanders captures 12 million votes and loses out on the nomination in a contentious multi-ballot convention, that (if the current statistical trend-lines hold true as his percentage of support scales up) extrapolates out to a direct defection rate (even with fewer overall votes captured) of around 3 million votes straight to Trump, and another 2 to 3 million to a 3rd party(s). That is a massive increase over the 2016 numbers. That would be catastrophic. He simply must cement those new supporters to stay in-tent even if he fails to land the nomination. The onus is ONE-HUNDRED PERCENT on HIM and him alone to do that.

The more hostile a stance towards our overall Democratic Party apparatus he himself takes, the more he inculcates a defector mentality into the minds and ultimately the actionable intent of his baseline support to do just that, walk away.

It will become a self re-enforcing negative feedback loop that culminates in a viscous circle that truly raises the re-election chances of the monster orange bloat to a maddening degree.

[artislife]

346. I think the voters this time around

Know what Trump is really like.

I don't think any of us had a picture to how vile he truly is back then.

I thought he was an ass back in 2016, I had watched The Apprentice and saw his assholery (?) then, but I had no idea how really demented he truly is.


Though, sometimes I read the comments on a Yahoo article just to remind myself how twisted the public can be.

[Celerity]

347. the problem is many of theses are new voters, or voters with no institutional ties or hard linkages

to our party at all or non-voters who may be being driven by an even more robust sense of 'burn it down'. Many appear to be far more radical and Democratic Party-hostile than in 2016, at least in initial evaluative quantitative and qualitative measurements.

[artislife]

348. When I talked to

Bernie supporters from other places in 2016, the sense was that no one was listening on either side to the peons. I am in the middle of a hiatus from FB, 4 months strong, so I am not connected to new members at all.

However, I would say that looking at most of our candidates and what they are saying, there is a lot more focus on the left behinds. I think that is the strength of the bench we have now.

So I am more hopeful than you seem to be. I think the burn it down ones will be less inclined to vote at all. I think if we have a candidate that focuses on what the next 50 years will bring as in climate issues, education access, healthcare, the ability to get out of living paycheck to paycheck, we have it made. But we must focus on what they need to hear.

[Kentonio]

74. I genuinely don't understand that.

Why would the actions of supporters change your opinion of the candidate themselves? All politicians have some really unpleasant supporters, its just par for the course in huge races.

[ehrnst]

193. I think that a politician's response, or lack of response, to supporters' actions in their support

is far more telling.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

132. GOOD QUESTION!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Autumn]

43. I would like to know the demographics of that poll. It doesn't smell right to me. Every

Bernie supporter I know would have dropped Bernie in 16 if Warren had jumped in the race, including me.

[Hortensis]

221. You're both in the 3/4 who are

not the subtype being discussed here.

[Me.]

8. So What Else Is New?

[MH1]

12. They " have no trouble with burning the village in order to save it"

Exactly what I just pointed out on another thread, as part of my problem with Sanders himself.

Fuck them.

We need to either educate some sense, compassion, and decency into these people, or need to consider them as important to "beat" (politically) as diehard Trump supporters.

[shanny]

13. Forbes. Friend to progressives everywhere.

[BlueFlorida]

50. Do you discard the data just because it is from Forbes?

[Amimnoch]

15. Funny how his supporters are quick to take us for granted, but

expect us to be totally okay with not being able to count on his supporters.

I'd like to see a poll on how many of us lifetime Democratic Supporters are now in that same camp of preferring Cheetolini over Sanders now. We'll never really know here, because nobody is allowed to say it by TOS (which is fair, board owners set the rules, and we agree to follow them). I don't really rub elbows in "independent" circles, but the circles I do socialize in, there's a growing number of long time Democratic Party supporters that are starting to fall into the any of our candidates but Bernie or bust, and would rather either not vote at all, and some cases even going as far as promising to throw in for the Cheeto if he's our candidate.

If it's fair for his supporters to be out of play for our candidates if he doesn't win the primary, why is it so unfair that some of us will not support him?

He can count on us if he wins the nomination, but we can't count on a chunk his supporters if he loses? fuck that noise.

This is extra ironic that this is being posted at the exact same time as the thread "The Impotence of "Stop Sanders" Democrats" is trending on this board. Another thread where they feel they can tooootally count on us, but use that veiled threat that we can't count on all of them.

[KitSileya]

20. I guess those if us not supporting Senator Sanders

Should take a lesson from his supporters, I guess. If we try to emulate them and refuse to vote for him if he is the nominee. Too bad the numbers show we aren't that psychopathic - 100% of the Mayor Buttigieg supporters polled would vote for the Senator if he is the nominee. I cannot feel bad about that, it shows that they at least are unwilling to let people be killed to get their will.

[Hortensis]

36. Yes. We need to realize THEY'RE NOT OUR VOTERS. If Sanders

isn't our nominee, they'll be gone with his chances. I'm talking about those of Sanders' supporters who will not vote for another Democrat. Not those who will, of course.

And he won't be the nominee. Yes, that @25% of his current supporters who say they won't vote Democrat if he's not the nominee are very similar to the @24% who refused to in 2016. They're intractable and committed specifically to him. But in contrast, he has less than half the level of support among Democrats in general this time as he did early in the 2016 primary. The picture drawn by media, right-wing agents and Russia that he could win is illusory. His role would again at most be a spoiler.

It's not really the issues for Sander's quarter percenters, either. Last week 26% of Sanders supporters polled said they would refuse to vote for Elizabeth Warren, even though she's every bit as strong on their common issues as he is. Sanders preaches that the Democratic Party is irredeemably corrupt and must be overcome -- and the draw of that is key.

It means that come the general, Sanders' intransigently hostile sector of zealous radical and populist support will not be ours to lose but Trump's. Trump was and is the second choice of most, to keep or lose to a third-party candidate.

They're what they are. We need others to understand them, why Sanders draws them, that he drops to draw enough away from Trump to win the nomination, and that we need to be prepared for what he and they will do when he doesn't.

[George II]

22. To sum it up, "if he wins you'd better support him, but if he doesn't we can look elsewhere."

We can put Nina Turner, Briahna Joy Gray, and David Sirota in that group.

[vsrazdem]

47. Agree, we had better vote for whoever wins the primary or we are in deep shit.

[mcar]

213. Which is why the regular "pledge to support BS if he gets the nom" OPs

Make me crazy.

[George II]

214. That's implicit to remain a member of this site. To have to keep asking that....

....is a sign of nervousness.

But that's also a moot question.

[BlueFlorida]

51. It is a feature and not a bug

"Either you make me win or I'll make you lose."

[treestar]

75. +1. The base is the people that can be counted on

not people who won't vote if they don't get their candidate.

[Hortensis]

218. Yes. Base is most reliable, not most extreme.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

96. This makes no sense. We should all vote blue, no matter who...

as one poster so eloquently put it. Why promote divisiveness? We ALL need to unite around the eventual Democratic candidate... PERIOD!! I think we can all agree that the "PUMA attitude" will only hurt our chances of defeating the pee-Resident in 2020.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

294. Why promote divisiveness indeed!

I guess your post title didn't have the "desired effect."

Careful now, that can backfire on you.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

299. Voting blue, no matter who is the point... the poster correctly expects to count on

the supporters of candidates who lose in the primary to support the winning candidate... the anti-thesis of devisiveness. No need to create yet another "strawman" to twist what I'm saying... it really is okay to sometimes concede a point, or just say why you disagree with uniting behind the eventual nominee... yes, even if it's Bernie.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

304. Here is the example of a divisive post, in case you missed it.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

305. As expected.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

306. Yes, again, I have the facts to back up my claims.

And as expected, some are not very happy at all about it.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

307. Yes, an outdated website... have you called the DNC yet to inform them

of your new-found facts proving Bernie is not a Democrat?! You need to get the facts out... so many are depending on you and anxiously await your giving the DNC this new secret information that will get Bernie out of the race and off the debate stage.

Unless, of course, you finally want to admit the obvious... Bernie IS a Democrat!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

310. And we have the double down - again!

This must have really stung.

The more one stonewalls and doubles down, the more embarassing it gets.





Why do you think Senator Sanders hasn't had his staff get that party affiliation "corrected" as of April 11, 2019? Looking forward to your response to that. Or attempt to double down/change the topic.

Let us know what the webmaster at Senate.gov has to say when you tell them that THEY ARE WRONG, BERNIE IS A DEMOCRAT!!!. So many are depending on you and anxiously await your giving the Senate this information that will get Bernie listed under the "correct" party affiliation.

And let us know when you learn to use this tool to find those links you keep saying that you wrote.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=search


Carry on.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

313. So, I take it you haven't called the DNC yet and informed them Bernie is not a Democrat...

If not, why not?!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

316. And we have the red herring along with the Double down!

Let us know what Senate.gov says about their "error," will you? Better yet, why don't you call Bernie's office on Monday, and ask his staff why they haven't gotten this "corrected?" Afraid of what they might tell you?



How's the search for those "facts" you say that you've posted but can't seem to find going?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

318. Yeah, didn't think so.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

319. And now we have "I know you are but what am I?"

Here's the number for Bernie's office: [phone]


Let us know what they say about the "outdated" Senate.gov website listing him as an Independent.



And do tell us what Democrats have hired former Jill Stein supporters who have trashed the Democratic party for years as senior POTUS campaign staffers?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

328. Guess that musta Berned... can't just accept the fact Bernie is a Democrat?!

Just like Bernie released 10 years of his tax returns, as he promised, and I predicted. Go ahead, keep refusing to accept the facts... but, at the end of the day, it will only contribute to divisiveness... you should try to focus on what UNITES us, like Bernie's progressive agenda, which most of the his fellow Democratic candidates have adopted in one form or another.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

332. "Musta Berned....." The "we all need to be positive!" mask falls away...

Getting testy, now are we?




Still waiting for the answer to this as well: Tell us what Democrats have hired former Jill Stein supporters who have trashed the Democratic party for years as senior POTUS campaign staffers?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

Speaking of refusing to accept the facts:



Get back to us on what his staff says about this. Honey, this hasn't been about "Bernie' for a while, this is about your vivid imagination and what is and isn't fact.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

340. The truth hurts, exactly! Whats it about the clear statement "I am a member of the Democratic Party"

from Bernie that you don't understand. If the DNC is okay with it, you should be too.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

350. What's it about the clear statement "I don't consider myself a Democrat" are you calling a falshood?

Another futile double down in reaction to being shown wrong... if your "right," that he's "always been a Democrat" then why would Bernie "lie?"

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/329418-sanders-i-do-not-consider-myself-a-democrat



Bernie's office is open today. You can ask his staff about that curious declaration when you ask why they are lettting the Senate.gov website continue to his party affiliation "wrong." Let us know what they say!

[Voltaire2]

17. I think that means Sanders is drawing considerable support from

people who are not regular Democratic voters. That is actually a good thing.

[Trenzalore]

18. The % that would vote for Trump over Warren are either bitter dead enders or idiots

[George II]

19. No, it means possibly that Sanders supporters may not want a Democrat to win...

That is actually NOT a good thing.

[Voltaire2]

21. That is a possibility.

But so is my theory. We would have to have a further categorization of these responders, were they regular Democratic voters or were they voters who don't regularly vote Democratic? Without that data we are both just speculating. Although I think it is bordering on the impossible that these are regular Democratic voters who are now suddenly not going vote Democratic unless the nominee is Sanders.

[Hortensis]

223. We can evaluate based on

defining behavior patterns alone, especially repeated, and definitely including their own passionate statements often repeated.

We’re talking about the kind of Sanders supporters who went to the Democratic national convention to disrupt it and yelled “lock her up” about Hillary. (This while their current chosen leader sat quiet and blandly watched.)

I have read a fair amount about effects of personality on political views and behaviors, and I’m absolutely certain the vast majority were not and could never have been “regular Democratic voters.”

Psychologists say that people who associate with extremists can become extremist themselves and increasingly separated from reality, a slippery mental slope, and that whole groups can become more extreme over time. That may well have happened to some of them, but climbing back out of those rabbit holes isn’t a simple matter of deciding to choose rationality “this time.”

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

102. Ding! Ding! Ding!... We hava winner!!! Pick ANY PRIZE from the top row!!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

293. ....

[ehrnst]

295. ...

[Demsrule86]

119. Republicans want him as the nominee for a reason. We are being played.

[NastyRiffraff]

23. I wish I could say I'm surprised

but we've seen this movie before. Democrats need to flood the polls on Nov. 3, 2020. There are a lot more of us than them.

[peggysue2]

26. So, they would rather vote for a psychopath . . .

than support the Democratic nominee? Seems reminiscent of another place, another time, does it not?

No surprises here. No excuses either.

Susan Sarandon would be proud!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

117. Yes it does... reminds me of the 2008 general election!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[BannonsLiver]

147. The one where Obama won 365 electoral votes in a landslide?

How exactly was he hamstrung by disgruntled Clinton supporters?

[BlueFlorida]

225. You're interrupting

[peggysue2]

181. Seems to me, Susan Sarandon threatened to leave . . .

the US if John McCain was elected. Quite a turnabout in sentiment for her and her faithful Bernie cohorts in 2016: that there wasn't any difference between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, that Trump's election would usher in The Revolution.

If you're waiting for that final prediction, I wouldn't hold my breath.

[ehrnst]

285. .......

Nice try!

[Renew Deal]

27. There is a certain segment of the population that wants to burn it all down

regardless of party.

[radical noodle]

28. I expected nothing less

yet BS supporters constantly quiz us about whether we'll vote for Sanders if our candidates lose to him.

[still_one]

30. I would argue that his hiring of David Sirota, Nina Turner, and Briahna Joy Gray is actually

encouraging his supporters to adopt such a mindset

Very sad when these 21/26-30% would vote for a racist, sexist, and bigot, over Warren or Buttigieg, and even more troubling that the candidate would not discourage that

[LongtimeAZDem]

31. "Bern it down" is apparently alive and well

[Demsrule86]

125. This should why I hoped he would not run.

[LongtimeAZDem]

127. And it's why I wrote the DNC chair to refuse his candidacy

[floppyboo]

32. From the article: (Not worrying at all)

No. 1: Only 51% of current Bernie supporters actually voted in the 2016 General Election for the Democratic nominee, Hillary Clinton – 7% voted for Trump, 23% voted for a third-party candidate, and 19% did not vote.

This result is the most difficult to interpret. Because nearly 30% of those who currently support Bernie say they voted for Trump or a third-party candidate in 2016, this statistic could support the claim that Bernie has crossover appeal and can expand on what Hillary was able to do in 2016. If 19% of non-voters now say that they would go to the polls for Bernie, it would support the narrative that Bernie can motivate many more people to go out and vote for a Democrat in 2020. If we take these potential voters at their word, it would appear to be a good sign for Bernie.

[BlueFlorida]

38. In a normal cycle

>90% would vote for the nominee. Party before personalities.

[vsrazdem]

48. That is true. Unfortunately the largest chunk of voters are independents. Who knows what

they will do.

[BlueFlorida]

49. No they are not nt

[vsrazdem]

112. Yes, they are.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/225056/americans-identification-independents-back-2017.aspx


WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Last year, 42% of Americans, on average, identified as political independents, erasing the decline to 39% seen in the 2016 presidential election year. Independent identification is just one percentage point below the high of 43% in 2014. Twenty-nine percent of Americans identify themselves as Democrats and 27% as Republicans.

[BlueFlorida]

116. They all "lean" -- doesn't matter how they identify themselves. nt

[vsrazdem]

123. Yes, and you cannot be sure which way they will lean.

With a nearly record-high proportion of Americans identifying as independents in 2017, it follows that identification with the two major parties is near the historical low for each. In fact, the 29% of Americans who identify as Democrats ties 2015 as the lowest in Gallup's trend for that party. Republican identification (27%) is two points above its low of 25% in 2013.

More Americans typically identify as Democrats than as Republicans, but Democrats' two-point advantage in 2017 is on the lower end of Gallup's annual trend.

[BlueFlorida]

128. The leaning is very consistent

Democratic leaning independents are democrats but won't call themselves one. Look at your candidate.

[vsrazdem]

130. First of all, I am responding to the statement I made that the largest voting block

is independents. You said, "No, they are not." Whether they are democrat or republing leaning was not the point. We still have to win over the independents in order to win an election.

[TwilightZone]

97. No, we generally know what most of them will do.

Most independents already lean one way or the other, but just don't bother with (or want) a party identification. The percentage of the electoral who doesn't lean is very small, in the single digits.

"just 6% (of voters) declined to lean toward a party."

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/07/05/5-facts-about-americas-political-independents/

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

99. It's an EXCELLENT sign for Bernie... all the more reason to believe he will wipe the floor

with the pee-Resident in the general.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

139. "Only 42% who voted for Bernie in the 2016 Primary selected him as their top choice in the 2020"

Excellent sign?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

141. INCREDIBLE sign... with 20 candidates running this time?! Abso-fuckin'-lutely!!

Say hello to President Sanders (D)!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

145. 42% of those "who voted for him" - not of all voters this time around.

58% polled that did said that they were not going to do so again.

Not what one would normally think of as a "good" trend, but...

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

153. Yes, because they have another choice they prefer... and when those alternative candidates drop out

in a lot of cases, it'll be back to Bernie!! Obviously!! But, I'm willing to let the voters decide and see where this goes. As I always say... let the best candidate win!! Then accept the results and vote blue, no matter who!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

270. Because you say so?

When you can't/won't even link to posts you claim time and time again you wrote.... many times?



We'll be here when you finally decide to admit what is real and what is wishful thinking.

Until then...

[BannonsLiver]

151. C'mon man

Bernie is always soaring. Always winning. Always dominating. No matter what.

[LongtimeAZDem]

129. Of course you're not worried; you're a JPR from Canada.

[ehrnst]

140. "Only 42% who voted for Bernie in the 2016 Primary selected him as their top choice in the 2020"

Also from the article...

[LonePirate]

33. It's patently clear that many of Bernie's supporters don't care about his positions or goals.

It makes me wonder why they support him in the first place.

[Tiggeroshii]

34. What does this say?

It says Bernie will win Trump supporters. Not all Bernie supporters are died in the wool Democrats, even if they are registered Democratic.

[JudyM]

70. That's the point that many seem to be missing. He *adds* votes that other Dems may not get.

I don’t think our country (or the planet) is in any position right now to be purist about how we get a win, if we do it honestly. If that means we craft a message that appeals to populists, we need to do what it takes.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

135. Everyone gets your point... they're just afraid to admit it!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[BannonsLiver]

152. You won't get any arguments from me on your last sentence.

That has been made ABUNDANTLY clear.

[Tiggeroshii]

194. It happens to be the case with a lot of other candidates too

In this cycle. Which is certainly not a bad thing.

[BlueFlorida]

37. Supporters motivated by anger and retribution

and with a victim mentality will generally not accept the will of the people and would want to take it out on the winner, even to their detriment.

[mcar]

39. "I want a woman, just not that woman"

[SidDithers]

68. Or that woman (Warren)...

Or that woman (Harris)
Or that woman (Klobuchar)
Or that woman (Gillibrand)

Sid

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

101. LOVE, LOVE, LOVE that woman (Warren)...

Could EASILY see her in the #1 slot!! ...


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!! or...
Elizabeth & Bernie 2020!!!
Either way... welcome to the revolution!!!

[we can do it]

95. Or any woman. It's fairly apparent.

[Cha]

40. I want a leader who will Unify..

not someone who is too Divisive.

[we can do it]

93. Me too.

[Cha]

200. And, that wouldn't be

BS.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

142. Then Bernie's your man... he'll unify not just Democrats, but the entire country!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[BannonsLiver]

154. +1000000

I feel exactly the same way.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

308. So, you're saying Biden should stay out of the race?! Agreed!! Bernie, with his progressive policies

which most of his fellow Democratic candidates are adopting in some form or another, has shown he's the ULTIMATE uniter. What other candidate has brought so many Democrats together on the issues, regardless of who.wins the primary?! None!!

Biden, with his more moderate views, will only succeed in dividing Democrats. I sume you're against that... good!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[dalton99a]

42. "If Democrats don't nominate our guy, then we'll vote for Trump to punish Democrats"

Same old shit

[Demsrule86]

113. That sounds fsmiliar...Deja vue?

[CentralMass]

56. The poll appears to have a sample size of 914. I am hard pressed to find those troubling trends in

polling summary or the related xlsx file.


https://emersonpolling.reportablenews.com/pr/april-national-poll-bernie-takes-lead-for-democratic-nomination-mayor-pete-on-the-move


http://emersonpolling.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/47/2019/04/ecp_national_20190414-final.xlsx

[stonecutter357]

57. I could so easily get a, One of your posts has been removed for breaking a forum rule !

[OrlandoDem2]

58. Sanders is dead to me and some of his supporters need their head examined.

Vote Blue no matter who.

I supported Bernie in the 2016 primary. His lack of support for Clinton after it was over was a deal breaker. Not a single penny from me and definitely not my vote. In fact I will vocally support pretty much any other candidate but him.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

89. "Vote Blue no matter who"... so true!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Stellar]

59. Please...as if most of the people here would vote fort Bernie....

Pfffsst! I I'll believe that when it happens.

[Lazy Daisy]

61. Oh FFS, knock it the fuck off already

It's not enough to bash Bernie, but DU has to bash his supporters too? This is fkn beyond pathetic.
Keep this shit up, and we'll be seeing dumbfuck Donnie for another 4 years.

[NurseJackie]

81. Oh, please! Nobody here is bashing Bernie. Nobody is bashing his supporters...

It's not enough to bash Bernie, but DU has to bash his supporters too?

Oh, please! Nobody here is bashing Bernie. Nobody is bashing his supporters. Do you think these figures are just made up out of thin air?

Keep this shit up,

Ah... the threats again. Are you suggesting that we just just IGNORE reality and pretend that everything is okay (when clearly it's NOT okay when BS supporters are letting us know in advance what they plan to do)? This is real and it needs to be discussed, no matter how uncomfortable it makes some people.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

105. The Bernie bashing NEVER ends. You could've walked over hot coals to vote for the Democratic nominee

and you'll STILL get demeaned if you're a Bernie supporter.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Lazy Daisy]

122. What these people don't see

People like us will vote for who ever gets the nomination, but plenty of people aren't us. They're not engaged in politics and don't understand the reach their vote (or lack of) has.

When you CONSTANTLY fuck with people they walk away. And before anybody starts their pearl clutching cries of but Trump, again these people don't understand the reach.

So keep fkn with people, go ahead. Those who do must really love the drama of having Trump as President.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

126. I hear ya... SO fuckin' true!!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[sheshe2]

227. Wow.

Lazy Daisy

122. What these people don't see

People like us will vote for who ever gets the nomination, but plenty of people aren't us. They're not engaged in politics and don't understand the reach their vote (or lack of) has.

Who are "these people" you are talking about? These people. Pretty divisive. Who the hell are "people like us" Sounds like a call out. They're ( I assume are "these people" you speak of) not engaged? You are saying 'some Duers' are stupid? "Don't understand the reach their vote (or lack of) has."

Wow. How insulting to say we are to stupid to understand the reach of our voice. Fact. I vote Democratic top to bottom every time. Always have and always will. I also always vote and never toss away my right and privilege to have my voice heard.

[LongtimeAZDem]

120. And the threats start coming again

Just like last time.

[aikoaiko]

62. Its fairly simple:Bernie supporters are, in part, swing voters.

People want to make a lot more of that, but we saw it in 2016, too.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

64. 2008 comes immediately to mind... how quickly people forget!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[SFnomad]

72. It's hard to forget all the Jill Stein voters that are part of BS's team ...

Co-Chairman: Nina Turner - Jill Stein voter
National Press Secretary: Briahna Joy Gray - Jill Stein voter
Campaign Speechwriter: David Sirota - Jill Stein voter
Top campaign adviser: Cornell West - Jill Stein voter

[Skya Rhen]

83. This is sickening and disheartening-convinces me that Bernie must have voted for Stein too.

As their boss, it is highly unlikely that he is the "odd man out". It makes sense that he would give top spots to like-minded people...

[BlueFlorida]

226. The word on the street was

that if Hillary wins, Bernie will never get another chance but if Hillary loses then Bernie can run in 2020.

Several Sanders' supporters were saying that openly.

[artislife]

341. There is no basis in fact

on this assertion. It would be saying that HRC got the SoS because she threatened to run against Obama in 2012. No basis for either crazy scenario.

[Kahuna7]

78. Bernie fans continue to refer to 2008 PRE-election day polling...

which had nothing to do with what actually happened on election day. How about you provide some proof that 25% of HRC supporters voted for McCain.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

84. Imagine Hillary being subjected to this new "Bernie Standard," should she decide she IS running

for President again for a third time in 2020. Yeah, it's hard to imagine, I know... it only applies to Bernie, hence the name, the "Bernie Standard."


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

286. I think you have some things reversed there...

Was that a BERN?

[ehrnst]

292. Why don't you remind us?

Thought so...

[NurseJackie]

79. I'm not at all surprised. That is EXACTLY what I'd expect. It's all very Sarandonesque...

... if you know what I mean.

It's also disgusting, selfish, vain, petty, and self-destructive. It's a revenge strategy that punishes and puts at risk the most vulnerable among us. (Personally speaking, I do not believe that's a very "progressive" way of behaving.)

[R B Garr]

245. ++++, it is definitely not progressive. We are not fooled. nt

[we can do it]

85. Same BS

[DemocratSinceBirth]

86. The greatest political party in the history of the world will not be held hostage.

[MontanaMama]

104. It's a cult.

Maybe there are Sanders supporters who aren’t brainwashed but those who wouldn’t vote for any Dem and would vote for MF45 instead are cultists as loony as the red hats. That said, I hate to break it to them but Bernie is old and he’s going to leave the planet one day and then what? What’re they going to do, vote for Bernie’s ghost?

[dalton99a]

149. Maybe Levi, or a facsimile thereof

The Revolution - ahem, the family business - must continue

[Honeycombe8]

106. That's very disturbing. It's more like results for a third party candidate.

Supporters for third party candidates are more apt to be all over the place, if they don't have their 3rd party candidate to vote for.

It's the force of personality, or sometimes the position on just one main issue.

But whatever the reason, it's disturbing that a Sanders Democrat would vote for Trump. That means their ideology is not consistent with the Democratic Party's.

[LovingA2andMI]

107. Not a Surprise...

At All.

[Demsrule86]

121. Not surprised.

[Politicub]

114. The people who sit it out or vote for the opposition make me angry

The staggering selfishness and callousness of people who would withhold their vote or vote for the GOP astonishes me.

They could do something about putting barriers in the way of the republicans but they don’t. I do not have the dark conscience that would allow me to cast a protest vote or giggle about voting for Jill Stein.

This last paragraph of your post makes me angry at the people who don’t care about the welfare of so many groups of people.

The fact that America keeps a zoo of immigrant children for people from this administration to go admire their “deterrence strategy” steels my resolve. There is nothing I can say or do to convert someone who would allow this violation of human rights to continue for one more second. They are monsters and it’s a waste of time to convince them to vote. Fuck them. We must build a coalition that doesn’t need them.

[BlueMTexpat]

133. He is at the absolute bottom of my

list.

The ONLY way that I will ever vote for him is if he is the Dem nominee. IMO, given the other better options, that is unllkely.

[riverwalker]

134. What does it say about Bernie

He knows all this, still chose to run. The country be damned.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

276. It says Bernie is a true patriot who bravely wants to lead this country in a new direction.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

289. ....

[ehrnst]

136. "Only 42% who voted for Bernie in the 2016 Primary selected him as their top choice in the 2020"

That's interesting.

[Historic NY]

137. Another reason not to support him....

its like he too is a cult of personality that attracts a certain type of people.

[LonePirate]

155. Bernie has attracted a cult of personality. His positions don't matter to a chunk of his followers.

The fact that so many of his supporters will not support Warren is all you need to know about how much his supporters truly care about the positions he holds. Personally, I don't think we should waste one second pandering to them.

[dalton99a]

161. +1. Their animosity toward Warren speaks volumes

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

179. "Animosity toward Warren"?!?! LMFAO!!! Most fellow Bernie supporters I know LOVE Elizabeth...

and hope Bernie picks her to be his running mate in 2020.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

189. Many were SHREDDING on twitter and FB the minute she endorsed HRC.

The misogyny and obscenities were disgusting.

Bernie needs to win the primary to pick a running mate, doesn't he?

When he can't keep even half of his supporters from the last time he ran, according to the article in the OP, that doesn't bode well for him winning this time either, if math is any indication.

[dubyadiprecession]

201. Bernie brings a wobbley political base to the Democratic Party.

Does anyone want to play “ political jinga” in 2020?

[David__77]

252. Also, 29% report being Clinton 2016 primary voters.

Interesting tidbit.

[qazplm135]

254. to me there are two types of his supporters

1. The larger group is just plain old far left folks. They want far left solutions and Bernie is clearly the most far left candidate. Nothing nefarious there or unusual. These folks want Bernie, but a large chunk of them will "hold their nose" and vote for a Dem against Trump.

2. The smaller but still decent sized chunk hate the entire system. They hate politics. They hate "moderates" or anyone who won't blow up the system (which means if Bernie wins and the revolution doesn't follow--which it won't--they will start to sour on Bernie too). It's much less about left or right or progressive or conservative as it is simply "blow everything up."

[riversedge]

255. seems like 2016 will repeat itself in 2020.

[robbedvoter]

296. the 26% are Republicans. In GE, they'll vote 🍊 over Burnie.

As for the rest - I don't know what they are. Burnie still runs against the Democratic party, so your bet why they love him so much. Anyway he plans to be a second Mondale

Link to tweet

[artislife]

298. You should be glad they don't visit DU

If they did, there would be no conversion.

[Gothmog]

300. From my twitter feed

Link to tweet

[Jarqui]

301. I don't trust Emerson's polling very much

I've seen some odd/off results in the recent past

[calimary]

315. Damn!

Just DAMN. Those who just simply have to burn down the village in order to “save” it will discover that they wind up with nothing worth saving when the fires burn out and the smoke clears.

[RB TexLa]

325. They have the same message

One from the left and one from the racist right.

Don't like where you are in life, let me give you someone to blame. One says you don't have a good job because of people who don't look like you the other says it's because of big banks. For some people as long as there is someone to blame other than themselves they are happy and ready to vote.

[captain queeg]

342. When I see the number of replies to this thread it scares me

I hope we can unite in time to get the orange sh*t stain voted out.

[ZeroSomeBrains]

349. It's why I try to avoid posting at this site

I do everything I can to be understanding of other people's perpectives but it seems like the most important thing to do here is to name Sanders or his supporters for being personally at fault for 45 being President. It doesn't matter if you proudly voted for Hillary in the general or tried to bring as many fellow Bernie supporters to do the right thing.

The thing is there are a lot of people who aren't affiliated with the Democratic party who support Bernie. If you are an independent or a Republican who is at least susceptible to his message then that should be considered a good thing that they can cross over for him. It also makes sense that it's a tougher road to change these people to vote for other candidates. If we are going to win the election we need to get conservative Biden supporters and conservative Sanders voters into the fold. I hope that we can make peace between all the warring factions after this is all said and done.

[Hortensis]

356. Don't worry. Democrats are strikingly united in

what we want, as are all our more promising candidates. Remember how powerfully the midterms illustrated this. They completely refuted the agitprop theme that our party is seriously divided.

Sanders positions himself as and is an outlier, yes. But at that, this OP is ONLY talking about the quarter or so of his followers who refused to vote Democrat before and promise to again. The rest were, are, and will continue to be united with the rest of their party to elect Democrats.

Btw, remember, at this point Sanders has less than half of the following he did last time. He's lost a bunch of Democrats to other candidates. And presumably, some of those primary voters who decamped to Trump didn't come back. Of those who came back to him and plan to leave after the primary, we're not talking about a lot of people and they are not ours to keep anyway.