Elizabeth Warren and Bernie share so many of the same policy views,

[pnwmom]

but her thinking is so much more nuanced, and she has a lightness and a warmth that he just doesn't have.

I don't understand what is making his numbers higher than hers, unless it's just plain old name recognition, combined with some misogyny.


Great quote: "If your ears are stuffed with money it's hard to hear."

[still_one]

1. The diffference is she has specifics on how to make it work

[spooky3]

3. and a lifetime of impressive accomplishments. nt

[pnwmom]

4. Yes -- she has a lot more specifics. She doesn't just talk in platitudes.

And she has passion, but not so much anger.

[LonePirate]

2. You have it backwards. It's plain old misogyny with some name recognition.

[thesquanderer]

30. Evidence of factors that are not misogyny (or name recognition)

1. There are over 13 million people who voted for Sanders in the 2016 primaries. That's more than name recognition. that's millions of people who already had--at least at one point--some sense of investment in his candidacy. Related, some of those voters feel that the party machinery stacked the deck against him, and so this is their chance to "make it right." As the OP says, Warren and Sanders are positionally similar... so tell me, what is the motivation for Sanders voters to switch from the choice they already made? Sure, there will be some subset who voted for Sanders because Warren wasn't running, and they're ripe for the picking, but Sanders ran a hard campaign to bring more into his fold, how does Warren, with similar positions, motivate them to switch? It's hard to grab support from people who had already chosen some other candidate, especially if your positions are not that different. Warren is left primarily with a target market of people who only reluctantly voted for Sanders last time, seeing him more as "flawed but better than Hillary" (and this group now has MANY other choices... and if they weren't so thrilled with Sanders last time, there may well be someone they will like better than Warren this time), or people who didn't vote at all in 2016. I think Hillary voters are a tough get for her too... positionally, I think Hillary supporters would more likely choose Biden. Except for those voters who prioritize gender, people who mostly want to see a female president, and may choose Warren as the most likely woman to succeed.

2. Massachusetts is a liberal state, and Massachusetts voters know Warren better than anyone (certainly no name recognition issue there), and they elected her as a woman over male competition (so misogyny isn't keeping her down)... and yet when polled, Massachusetts voters prefer Sanders to Warren. See

https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/04/07/elizabeth-warren-lagging-behind-in-massachusetts-poll/

(Tangentially related, Sanders' approval rating in his state of NH is far stronger than Warren's approval rating in her state of MA. Can we tell anything from the people who know them best know? I don't know...)

[thesquanderer]

31. Another reason...

3. With Sanders and Warren having similar positions, the preference could come down to who you think could more easily beat Trump in November.

That fear would be borne out by this:

http://emersonpolling.com/2019/04/15/april-national-poll-bernie-takes-lead-for-democratic-nomination-mayor-pete-on-the-move/

Trump beats Warren 52 to 48; Sanders beats Trump 51 to 48.

But it's early.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

5. She doesn't seem angry all the time.

She seems passionate and excited but not angry. While She and Bernie occupy pretty much the same place on the political spectrum she presents her positions clearly and in detail without looking like she wants to chase some kids off her lawn.

[pnwmom]

11. Right. She's not the angry old grandma. She's a staunch progressive, who is very persuasive,

who also seems to have a flexibility that would allow her to accomplish more, in the real world of working with Congress.

[corbettkroehler]

35. Sanders' Anger Is Righteous Indignation

I agree that there's a double standard for women with passion. Geraldine Ferraro suffered from this, campaigning with a similar fire as Sanders. Nevertheless, I must differ with you about the effects of Sanders' fire. It is that fire which inspired so many young voters last time and continues this cycle. He even had a question on the topic from a millennial during the CNN town hall last night.

Respectfully submitted for your review...

In conjunction with the CNN Town Hall on Monday, April 22, the Institute will release its Spring Harvard IOP Youth Poll results and key findings on young Americans’ views toward climate change, economic inequality, gun violence, lowering the voting age, foreign policy, trust in institutions, and the political system. Since 2000, the Harvard IOP Youth Poll has examined the political opinions, voting trends, and views on public service held by 18- to 29-year-olds in America.

https://iop.harvard.edu/about/newsletter-press-release/institute-politics-co-host-cnn-town-hall-featuring-five-democratic

[pnwmom]

36. All the participants had questions from millennials during the Town Halls last night.

During 2016, Bernie ended up being the only alternative for any young person who wanted an alternative to Hillary. Warren didn't run. Buttigieg didn't run. O'Rourke didn't run. Castro didn't run.

Bernie will have lots of competition and there's no way to know what young people will decide after they've seen some debates.

[corbettkroehler]

39. The Others Didn't Have A Question Which Specifically Cited Enthusiasm Amoung Voters

This is a key distinction. He enjoyed it in 2016. In fact, he freely admits during Q&A sessions that young voters were a big factor in his meteoric rise.

Link to tweet

[pnwmom]

40. Elizabeth Warren doesn't have the same name recognition among young voters because

she didn't run last time around.

Things will change this time. She is far more personable than Bernie, is strongly pro-gun control, and is just as progressive in her financial views. Some young misogynists might not like her, but they'll be in the minority, hopefully.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

37. Bernie's shtick has become a bit stale and predictable.

He seems angry, which isn't the same as passionate. He delivers the same rant as he did in 2016, and after all that, he comes across like some grumpy old man yelling at the millionaires and billionaires to get off his lawn.

[TCJ70]

6. That's why she's in my top three. We'll see how far she gets!

I think we’d all be well served this primary to work from the positive. Leave the misogyny talk at the door. It serves nothing. Bernie’s got big name recognition this time around so he starts with that advantage.

[CentralMass]

7. Elizabeth Warren is great but trying to tear down Bernie Sanders is not going to help her campaign.

[pnwmom]

9. How is she doing that, other than not bowing down to his superior poll ratings? n/t

[CentralMass]

12. Elizabeth Warren isnt doing it. Look at the replies here.

[pnwmom]

14. Elizabeth and Bernie are targeting basically the same segment, so inevitably

there will be comparisons.

[CentralMass]

15. I had the great pleasure of voting for Elizabeth Warren when i lived in MA.

I have a photo of my oldest daughter standing shoulder to shoulder with the Senator in her office in D C


Unfortunately I had to relocate out of state in 2015.

[Cha]

19. BS is the one hired jill stein

voters to be on his staff. Sanders brings this on himself..

B Sanders Taps Jill Stein Supporter to Co-Chair his Campaign for the Democratic Nomination

https://www.democraticunderground.com/12872947

Bernie Sanders Just Hired His Twitter Attack Dog

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/03/sanders-promised-civility-hired-twitter-attack-dog/585259/

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

New Sanders hire, who was critical of Democratic opponents, scrubs internet history

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/03/sanders-promised-civility-hired-twitter-attack-dog/585259/

[ehrnst]

32. How is she "trying to tear down Bernie Sanders?" By running against him?

Or because she supports impeaching Trump and he doesn't?

[Bleacher Creature]

8. It's a shame that I can't agree by more than 100%.

I've been thinking the exact same thing. She's actually been more progressive than Bernie, she's come up with thoughtful proposals that are complete with details about how to pay for and implement them, AND she's a loyal Democrat.

There's no reason why anyone should support Bernie over her, other than just pure misogyny.

[SunSeeker]

10. +1

[ehrnst]

33. Heading up the CPB is an example of actions speaking louder than just words. (tn)

[TreasonousBastard]

16. She also has a better legislative record for her short time in the Senate...

and has been a successful consumer financial advocate since 1995.

Misogyny is an easy target, but I suspect Bernie has just been building his support for a lot longer.

[pnwmom]

17. Do you think Bernie had a high profile nationally before about 2015 when he started to run?

From out here in the west I'd seen a lot more of Elizabeth Warren than of Bernie.

[TreasonousBastard]

20. I really don't know. Around here he was considered as a long-time leftie, but...

I can't think of just when he arrived into the Nader/Kucinich state of grace.

What is obvious is that he managed to strike a chord in '15 and was someone a huge number of people took to heart. And still do.

[KPN]

26. He definitely did via years of appearances on

progressive talk radio, especially Thom Hartman’s Friday Lunch with a Bernie which aired every Friday for years -/ maybe a decade? Bernie developed a lot of his following there. He’s been consistent in voicing the same concerns and ideas for probably at least 15 years on talk radio.

I personally think his time has passed, but he’s still an influential voice for progressive economics and appreciate his presence in the race. He and Elizabeth both benefit from the other’s presence.

[pnwmom]

27. Thom Hartmann may be big on DU, and on RT, but didn't exactly give Bernie a huge nat'l platform. n/t

[KPN]

28. Minimize it if you want. Fifteen or so years

of frequent appearances is not a small thing, especially on Thom Hartman.

[pnwmom]

34. Well, I'd barely heard of him. He sponsored only a handful of bills in the Senate and had a low

national profile compared to Elizabeth Warren -- who got lots of national coverage related to the Consumer Protection agency that she fought for.

[Hoyt]

18. I remember it well in 2016. They both bashed Obama for the TPP, TransAtlantic Partnership,

and supported tariffs. Not sure about Warren, but Sanders definitely pushed the America First agenda when it came to immigration (those immigrants were taking jobs according to Sanders).

I guess Sanders was so successful in all that, that trump won on a similar campaign when it came to immigration and global trade.

I personally think Warren is a little more savvy in that respect.

[JI7]

21. disagree. they aren't very similar at all. just look at his comments on poor immigrants

from certain countries.

[BlueFlorida]

22. She is not angry but positive

Anger is a big motivator for a segment of the population

[caraher]

23. Yes

I supported Bernie early last time. (Of course I voted for Hillary in the end...) This time around I'm currently leaning Warren as she seems much more likely to enact her agenda. (I wish she'd run last time, honestly...) I'm also a bit concerned that some folks (including those fairly high up) in the Sanders campaign are being more negative about their Democratic competition than I'd like to see (especially this early on).

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

38. Bernie has hired Jill Stein retreads plus bomb-thrower David Sirota as high-level campaign staff.

I was less than thrilled about that. I supported Bernie last time too, then happily voted for Hillary. I'm not going with Bernie this time, though. There are other candidates who offer the same ideas with more specifics, and who also offer a positive vision and not just ranting anger at the millionaires (of which he is one) and billionaires.

[lunamagica]

24. A lot of misogyny. Soon we'll start hearing "Oh, I'd LOVE a woman president, just not this woman"

Mark my words, this will be said aff all the woman fandidates.

[Quixote1818]

25. I agree. nt

[LexVegas]

29. Guns. nt