Biden gets Trump to double down on Charlottesville remarks

[mcar]

Dotard couldn't resist taking the bait and praises Robert E. Lee. Well done, VP Biden!

Link to tweet

?s=19


Manu Raju
✔
@mkraju
Trump, at the White House, defends his "very fine people on both sides" comments on Charlottesville, says people were protesting the removal of Robert E Lee statue, calling the Confederate leader "one of the great generals."

[unblock]

1. i've noticed that while he says there are "very fine people on both sides",

he never has anything nice to say about the ones on our side....

[mcar]

2. Never does, does he?

[PatSeg]

3. Excellent point

But "our side" didn't and won't vote for him!

[JustAnotherGen]

43. He doesn't like black people

So he's never going to say anything 'nice' about us.

[LakeArenal]

45. Yes but dump can't name one.

[eShirl]

4. Then why do we have no statues of Benedict Arnold?

[rzemanfl]

7. Excellent point. n/t

[NewJeffCT]

15. He was a great military leader and general as well

but, he was born in Connecticut, so maybe being born in a blue state that didn't betray the nation doesn't count?

[Cuthbert Allgood]

30. Boot Monument in NY

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boot_Monument

[flotsam]

63. And if you go far enough past the boot you come to this

Which seems to me to be the perfect remedy for the Trump family...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damnatio_memoriae

[qazplm135]

58. because he wasn't Southern

and/or a slave holder.

[vlyons]

5. One of the great generals, really?

I don't consider Picket's charge at Gettysburg an order by a "great general." Lee set men with muskets up a hill mounted with union cannon firing grape shot, not once, but twice. Effectively destroying the Confederate army.

[mcar]

8. Right?

Not only a traitor, but also not a good strategist.

[yardwork]

35. Lee was also an exceptionally cruel slave owner. Not an honorable person at all.

The romanticized stories about Robert E. Lee have been proven false. These myths were created by the same people who popularized the KKK in the early 20th century and put up Confederate monuments everywhere.

[underpants]

60. Lost Cause

in addition to what you posted, one of the other excuses was that HE didn’t lose his commanders let him down. Well yeah. Other than those who were actual soldiers he put a lot of plantation owners in middle management positions and they eroded morale.

I’m sitting eating lunch in the heart of the Lost Cause - I just walked by the house Lee retired to after the war.

[unblock]

62. he was graded on a curve.

the civil war was not a showcase of military genius.

[marylandblue]

6. Well lets see if baiting Trump into responding to Biden works.

I don't think it will, but if it does, it should put Trump on the defensive and make him look weak. If it doesn't, he will go after Biden directly and Biden will start to sink.

[mcar]

10. Why would Biden sink if Dotard goes after him?

[marylandblue]

14. Drives up his negatives, even in the eyes of Democrats.

Biden has that problem already as other Democrats will also look to drive up his negatives. The media will report it all, and people won't be careful to consider the source.

That's the bad outcome for Biden. The good outcome for Biden is that moderates and a bit of Trump's base like Biden's attacks.

[mcar]

16. Trump attacking Biden drives up Biden's negatives among Democrats?

You seem very sure of this.

[BlueFlorida]

19. Don't you feel like

[marylandblue]

22. See post 20, and understand strategic thinking.

Biden undertook a certain strategy. It pays for him, and you, to understand the possible risk. Every strategy has risks. Knowing this helps you guard against those risks.

I have nothing bad to say about Biden. I just note that he has weak points due to his long record that make him vulnerable to attacks both from within and without.

[marylandblue]

20. I am not sure of this at all, I am speculating, based on how strategies work or don't work.

And I also offered two cases. One if the strategy works and one if it doesn't. I speculate it won't work, but I certainly could be wrong.

[yardwork]

36. It depends on how Biden looks when he responds.

I see your point. It could go either way. If Biden comes across as a feisty guy who won't back down from a fight, that might peel off some of Trump's base. Can Biden make Trump look weak? If so, that's a positive for us.

[quickesst]

29. Wishful thinking?

[marylandblue]

34. I outlined two scenarios, one positive for Biden and one negative.

And I stated my opinion including the words "I think," and I hope you'll also note that my opinion is consistent with my preferred candidate's view.

I don't get why Biden backers' only response is non-substantive attacks on this rather mild non-criticism of his strategy.

It's clear this is his strategy, and it's almost as clear what a best and worst case scenario would look like for him.

My opinion may be wrong, but is not based on wishful thinking. It is based on how I think we need to deal with authoritarian populists, based on books and articles I've read, since we have no history of an authoritarian populist leader in the US.

[quickesst]

40. Sure

[AlexSFCA]

44. On day one, biden proved to be able to stand up to trump

and it’s been said many times that he is one of the very few people who are able to get under trumps skin. Obama is another one. I like that Biden goes right into the heart of the problem - it’s not the economy, not job, not even healthcare - it’s the rise of white nationalism. All other issues now pale in comparison. You have to address the root cause before you can effectively tackle those policies. Biden knows very well that presidents don’t legislate - congress does so he is campaining to save the democracy itself.
Remember there lots of white people who voted for Obama, often twice, are now turned to white supremacy. It’s like infection affecting entire communities because for the first time it’s dictated from the very top as the main policy. Yes, trump has only one policy and vision- white nationalism and every decision he makes based on that.

[Cha]

9. Joe Biden's Inspiring launch was

brilliant.

trump has blood on his hands from people killing in his name, and babies and children being ripped from their parents arms, in his name.. three horrific terrorist acts in his name.

He and his "white nationalists" have a lot to answer for.. and Biden leaves zero doubt what he intends to do to trump during the next ~ 18 months.

Mahalo, mcar

[mcar]

11. The atrocities of Charlottesville should never be forgotten, Cha

[Cha]

13. Precisely.. and I'm

so appreciative that Biden brought this into the national conversation.

[BlueFlorida]

21. What everyone seems to forget

is that other than 10-15% of hard core racist Americans, no one else liked what they saw in Charlottesville.

Americans by and large are not racist to that extent and would rather be on Joe's side on this issue.

[marylandblue]

24. The problem is not just the hardcore racists.

Another 30-35% are content to ally with racists if it will serve their own interests. These voters are persuadable,.but they don't care about Charlottesville one way or the other.

[BlueFlorida]

25. ...

It is hard to argue with political experts.

[marylandblue]

26. I am no political expert that's for sure. Sorry if I have opinions that differ from yours.

[LakeArenal]

47. Sometimes opinions are presented as facts.

[Demit]

55. Isn't that the truth. "Electability," for example.

[marylandblue]

57. Exactly.

[marylandblue]

56. You could say that to the person I was responding to as well, but you didn't.

[LakeArenal]

65. Because I said it in support of you.

I wasn’t interested in the other one’s opinion of my opinion.

[marylandblue]

66. Oh thank you then. I misunderstood.

[LakeArenal]

67. That's okay. The posts to me should have been sent to you.

It’s all good.

The comment probably wouldn’t have registered with the other dude anyway.

[AlexSFCA]

46. it was a brilliant reminder that we should still be talking

about chartlotsville every day in some way. The news moved on to other things like toddlers in cages and then other stuff. But Heather Heyer died because of trump. Don’t you forget, there is no doubt she’d be alive today if trump hasnt embolden nazi to openly display their hatred and then embolden even more by disrespecting her death declaring nazi are good people.

[LonePirate]

12. It is not great to be a treasonous, surrender monkey who killed thousands of patriotic Americans.

[safeinOhio]

39. You'd think he would be more of a

fan of General Sherman.

[mn9driver]

17. Lee was fortunate to not have been imprisoned.

Instead, his plantation at Arlington was confiscated and turned into our national military cemetery. His family tried for years to get it back. The idea that Lee was a great General is bullshit Confederate mythology.

[mcar]

18. It surprises me that historians don't push back more on this myth

The idea that Lee was a great general is part of CW lore, at least on the surface.

[underpants]

61. Money to be made and professional courtesy

There’s still a LOT of money made respinning this story. My stepfather still gets magazines on it. Not sure if they are monthly or quarterly but they still crank them out. Of course there’s also the History Channel which my brother once summed up perfectly as “Tonight on the History Channel! Did Confederate ghosts influence Hitler???”

I think historians who could push back on this give it a pass to avoid the hassle of attacks and because the “historians” still writing about this are c-league at best.

[William Seger]

23. "Very fine people" don't celebrate the painful symbols of defending slavery

[nolabear]

27. Yep, couldn't have taken the bait better if it had been a hamberder.

If Joe is smart (and LORD, he is) he'll just keep poking and let him do the work of taking himself down.

[mcar]

28. ...

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

31. Joe seems to know exactly how to push Spanky's buttons.

Keep up the good work, Joe.

[yellowdogintexas]

53. Joe has nothing to lose here. It is the Last Hurrah, the Swan Song

and he absolutely has no fs left to give.

He is more freed up to call out the cruelty, ignorance, and ego of #45 and he will. Regardless of who is the ultimate nominee, I am confident he will be the #1 attack dog on behalf of that person all the way through Election Day.

If he is the nominee I look forward to him sliceing and diceing #MangoMussolini in front of the whole nation. I am stocking up on popcorn anyway

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

54. I agree. Whether or not he gets the nomination he will be the most effective attack dog

both before and after the convention. Indeed, he has no more fucks to give and he can let his flag fly.

[Downtown Hound]

32. Lee was a great general my ass

He had a few early victories which were do more to Union disorganization than anything else. But after senselessly slaughtering his army at Gettysburg (mostly out of his own pride, Longstreet tried very hard to talk him out of it), he had one defeat after another. His futile resistance after that, while inflicting heavy casualties on both sides, only served to prolong the inevitable and ended up enraging the Union so much that they burned the entire southern plantation economy to the ground. He left the south broken, battered, charred, and defeated. Great general? LOL. He was a racist, a traitor, and a loser.

[karynnj]

33. But ... I would have thought he would not like generals who lose

just like military heros who are captured.

[LakeArenal]

48. Point!!

[keithbvadu2]

37. What does yelling anti-Jew slogans have to do with a REL statue? Did Lee hate Jews also?

What does yelling anti-Jew slogans have to do with a REL statue?

Did Lee hate Jews also?

[LakeArenal]

49. Just a guess, YES.

[capechacon]

38. Lee deserted the US Army and was among the leaders of a racist, viciously anti-American movement.

He was responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of American soldiers and was justifiably indicted as a traitor immediately after the Civil War.

Americans who openly glorify Lee's role in the "war of northern aggression" display their aggressive ignorance and un-American instincts.

[pangaia]

41. Just to be contrary, Lee actually was, for the most part, a very good militarist.

On the other hand.......

[capechacon]

59. So were Genghis Khan in the middle ages and A. Hitler at the outset of WW2....

But to label any of them as a "good militarist" is akin to saying any one rabid dog is/was better at being rabid than another rabid dog.

[FakeNoose]

42. Here's the irony

If Robert E. Lee really had been a "very fine" General, then he would have won the war, right? There would be no United States of America after 1864, in which case Donald Chump's grandfather probably wouldn't have been allowed to emigrate here. Frederick Chump would have settled in Canada maybe, or South America, or who knows?

[Pepsidog]

50. Traitors have to stick together. Lee made the choice to be a traitor and history should treat him

like one. He caused the slaughter of so many in a war he knew he couldn’t win. Yes the confederacy had some success but ultimately it could not match the industrial strength of the North.

[C_U_L8R]

51. Traitor loves a traitor

What else is new

[duforsure]

52. trump praises hate groups

And claims those that'll kill others using a car as a weapon are fine people , all based on hate. Joe should keep this subject continuing now and keep repeating trumps support for these killers in these hate groups. Just like he supports fascist corrupt criminal dictators over our allies. He likes people who are traitors to our country, like himself, I don't. Then he claims ( another lie) he's making this country great, and that truly is a huge lie, he's not. He hates Democracy and the truth.

[flotsam]

64. Lee remembered everything he was taught at West Point

except loyalty.

[Cha]

68. K!