From The Guardian: Joe Biden is the Hillary Clinton of 2020 - and it won't end well this time either

[chwaliszewski]

"Let’s rewind the clock a few years to when everything was just fine and dandy."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/26/joe-biden-is-the-hillary-clinton-of-2020-and-it-wont-end-well-this-time-either

***I am only posting this to show what perceptions from others are outside of our group and outside of our country***

Flame away.

Note: reopened from previous posting https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212054538#post1

[Demsrule86]

1. Wouldn't waste my time.

[FreeState]

22. Good way to loose an election

We need to listen to everyone so we can answer their concerns. Trump took advantage of us not reaching out - we can’t do that again.

[msongs]

2. so exactly who said "lets rewind the clock to when everything was...." ? nt

[JI7]

3. because Russian trolls are going after him ?

they are going after everyone other than Bernie Sanders and Tulsi Gabbard.

[Mr Tibbs]

25. Do you have evidence of this?

Russian Trolls were pretending to be Sanders supporters in 2015 - 2016. But this isn't that election.

[JI7]

27. yes, i have seen it on social media and fbi has said it's still happening

it's clear it's happening.

[Mr Tibbs]

28. Could you please post this evidence?

Social media is the source of much fake news. Thanks.

[JI7]

29. here

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/26/us/politics/fbi-russian-election-interference.html

[Mr Tibbs]

30. Do you have a non blocked source?

NYT only allows like 3 article reads a month, they they block it.

[JI7]

32. i'm sure there are. you can look up fbi and russian election

[Mr Tibbs]

33. Of course there's "Russian interference", but that's not the issue

The issue is your specific charge that Russians are specifically supporting Bernie Sanders. Show your FBI evidence please.

Thanks.

[JI7]

34. the Mueller report

and seeing the same shit now .

[Mr Tibbs]

37. 2016 ended years ago

So you cannot find these recent FBI reports?

Well, when you do please post them.

[JI7]

38. i posted the link which you had no interest in looking at. it did not end in 2016. it continued

including during the midterms last year. those are facts. just like it's continuing right now.

you even see on DU people spewing conspiracy theories about the DNC again.

[progressoid]

49. Where in that article does it support your statement that "they are going after everyone other than

Bernie Sanders and Tulsi Gabbard"?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

65. Cue the crickets... chirp! chirp!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[watoos]

55. You are doing exactly what Russian trolls want you to do,

are you not? Didn't Russian trolls support Bernie to sow discord between Democrats. Russian trolls didn't "support" Bernie per se, they only did so to create discord among Democrats.

As far as Tulsi goes, she is only 1 of 2 of our candidates who have served our country in the military, the other being Mayor Pete. Tulsi actually volunteered to serve in Iraq and then later served again in Kuwait. I don't know how to nicely say how I feel about someone calling a former military vet a Russian favorite?
I sport Tulsi's pic because she has been bashed more by Democrats than even Bernie. I won't bash any of our candidates, that's a job for Republicans.

If Bernie is our nominee I will enthusiastically support him.
If Tulsi is our nominee I will enthusiastically support her.

Can you say the same?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

66. Guess not... I sure as hell will!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

4. Interesting take... not sure it's fully applicable.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Mr Tibbs]

36. I tend to agree

[BlueFlorida]

5. Arwa Mahdawi is a palestinian ethnicity,

Last edited Mon Apr 29, 2019, 12:09 AM - Edit history (1)

ultra left winger from the UK. She is always advocating for chaos and can be safely ignored.

[Thekaspervote]

11. Thank you.. good to know. We all knew this was coming...

[Honeycombe8]

13. Well, that's a good bit of info. That's relevant. Thanks. nt

[progressoid]

50. "is a palestinian ethnicity"??

What does that mean?

[melman]

51. Good question

[treestar]

62. typo?

really?

[progressoid]

64. I'm trying to understand what being a Palestinian has to do with it.

[NYMinute]

63. There is a comma after ethnicity

and the sentence flows into the body.

[chwaliszewski]

68. How does being a 'Palestinian ethnicity' bring anything to your argument other than...

applied racism? I'm not in defense of Arwa's article by any means, I'm only presenting what others are saying about us to this site in order to get a clearer picture of what we're up against. However, I suggest you change the title of your comment as it reeks of the 'she's one of them' attitude that we see so often from the right. Additionally, ignoring others that are in disagreement with our beliefs will only enhance the chances of another 4 years of the wannbe dictator.

[BlueFlorida]

69. She has very radical views of the world

I like her personally. She is intelligent, articulate, well-educated and writes well. However, she espouses very radical views. She is openly and unabashedly a lesbian as well which takes courage and I admire her for that. Her views of the world politics in general and American politics in particular come from a radical construct.

[chwaliszewski]

70. That's good to know. But again, the 'Palestinian ethnicity' thing destroys your good intentions...

so lose it and your argument will be better off. A person's ethnicity, sex, age, etc., has nothing to do with what comes out of their mouth or directs their actions. Be better than this.

[BlueFlorida]

73. It was just descriptive and not intended as you took it.

She is only half palestinian and half British.

[highplainsdem]

6. Flawed analysis from a Sanders fan who seems unaware that Hillary Clinton won the popular vote,

and also unaware of recent news stories about how worried Trump and the GOP are about Biden's appeal in Pennsylvania and other Rust Belt states Trump needs to win again to be re-elected.

[Mr Tibbs]

26. She lost the election because we don't go by popular vote

We go by the electoral college

[delisen]

31. Russia had no part?

[LongtimeAZDem]

7. She also says that "Bernie Sanders is the most feminist 2020 candidate"

[highplainsdem]

10. Yes, that's another hilariously wrong column from her, too. And in that one she actually admits,

while citing polls she points out show Sanders leading most Democratic candidates as far as support from female voters and black voters is concerned, that BIDEN leads Sanders with both groups of voters.

So it's relevant to her that Sanders comes in second, but not that Biden leads.

Editing to add that in that same column about "feminist" Sanders, she says the Morning Consult poll she cites shows the only group Sanders doesn't connect with is that of voters earning over $100K. In fact that poll showed Biden leading Sanders with voters making $50K - $100K, and tied with Sanders among voters making less than $50K.

[marylandblue]

8. It's exactly what I think, but my opinion can be (and has been) safely dismissed

Because, you know, Joe Biden is likeable and from Scranton and can win. That makes a huge difference. Or so I've gathered.

Four years of Trump and we still don't get it. Sad.

[Merlot]

19. I'm getting that feeling as well.

[quickesst]

9. the more of these..

.... shallow and underwhelming articles I read, the more it absolutely convinces me that Joe Biden is by far the biggest threat Trump faces. Once again a picture has been painted to convince people that 2016 was a fair and square contest. We all know that this was not true, and by the sin of omission the article exposes itself as the petty hit piece it is. The article also pitifully tries to paint Joe Biden as someone who want to return to "all those good things", like the eight years of the Obama presidency as if Obama was only a front for the real powers that be. That level of stupidity is only rivaled by the likes of the kellyanne Conway's and the Sarah Sanders' of the Trump crime family. If pundits and others truly want their candidates of choice to rise, perhaps they should concentrate on them more, and less on trying to push the fantasy of "bad" Joe Biden onto people who are just too damn smart to fall for that crap.

[Honeycombe8]

12. I just don't know. I don't know what to think or who to support.

I understand the need for passion.

I understand the need for experience in govt, but esp in national politicking, and super especially in dealing with someone like Trump.

The one I was waiting for just didn't appear. There is no Obama 2.0. There is no strong governor with executive experience whose state has a strong economy.

I don't know.

[marylandblue]

17. Well, I'll give you my plug for Buttigieg, because experience is worthless against Trump.

He is not like anyone or anything this country has ever dealt with. What difference does experience make if you've never actually seen something before?

To deal with Trump, you have to study Trump himself, learn from what he does, learn why he is different, and why so many people were attracted to him in 2016.

Then you have to develop a counter strategy designed specifically to take him down. IMO, Buttigieg has done exactly this. His rise is almost as improbable as Trump's. In a matter of weeks, a young gay small town mayor leaped over two governors and two Senators.

It's still early, so he could be flavor of the month. But I think he's not because his story is so improbable to begin with. If I'm right, he will continue to rise over the next 3 to 6 months, and Biden will fall. They are executing opposite strategies aimed at the same group of voters. Don't believe me yet. Just watch them both. Only one of them can succeed.

If my prediction comes true, go with Pete and ignore his lack of experience. Accept that he's a political prodigy who figured out how to do something nobody has ever done before, and therefore is best qualified to take on Trump.

[True Dough]

35. Well stated

and Pete's going to shine during the debates. That will win over a lot more voters.

[Honeycombe8]

40. I DO like him a lot.

He's at the top of the pack, along with Biden. Pete is actually moderate, which is surprising. So...are young people going for him?

I just don't know if he can get elected.

[Merlot]

20. You don't have to decide who to support right now.

Wait until the debates. Some candidates may not make it that far.

I picked a candidate I like, but this early in the game my vote is hers to loose. And she could loose my vote, because I keep that posibility open. It's still very early in the process.

You don't have to know right now.

[Honeycombe8]

42. True. I'm pinning hope on the debates. nt

[JI7]

39. Jay Inslee is a strong gov with executive and legislative experience , and there will never be

another Obama in our lifetimes.

[Honeycombe8]

41. I watched Inslee talk one time.

He was pretty lackluster. I did have high hopes, when he entered the race.

I wouldn't mind seeing him as the head of the EPA or elsewhere in the cabinet.

And yes...I guess I'm spoiled. The first time I saw and heard Obama, "he had me at hello." That was so easy. That's not going to happen again.

[JI7]

43. stop looking to politics for entertainment. read a book or watch a film with feel good

theme to it .

[Honeycombe8]

61. Winners of big political elections have widespread appeal and charisma, usually.

That's why people vote for them.

If I fall asleep watching someone speak on a topic I care about, that person will not be able to convince others to follow his ideas.

[MFM008]

59. He may be lackluster

But the topic hes trying to interject is vital.
Ill support him as long as he stays in.
Ps. Hes my Governor...

[Iliyah]

14. WOW, the DU this week was and still is full of

(-) towards Joe Biden. Geez wiz. ugh.

[UniteFightBack]

15. Sorry but unjust and unwarranted hate is just not there for Joe like it was for Hillary. nt

[JI7]

16. because most of it came from white men who are less likely to feel hate towards another old white

man like themselves.

[UniteFightBack]

18. Republican women are just the same. nt

[Merlot]

21. True, but we may also not see the level of enthusiasm needed

especially if Biden were to get the nomination and then choose another white guy as his running mate, which I think is a strong posibility.

Also, don't underestimate how some people will feel about some of Bidens choices, especially legalizing MJ. That will take the wind out of a big segment of the younger voters.

[ucrdem]

23. More butt-hurt from the usual suspects.

She can't figure out why Biden is getting traction and her tiki-god is sputtering. Hint: “Ethical, straight, telling the truth" isn't a gaffe, it's the reason Biden is getting traction.

[Scurrilous]

24. The Guardian lets just about anyone pen opinion pieces for them in the 'commentisfree' section.

Not to be taken seriously.

[no_hypocrisy]

44. Joe Biden is not Hillary Clinton.

Trump got supporters at his rallies and online frothing at their mouths with the mere mention of HRC. The Emanuel Goldstein with estrogen. Could have been her being a woman by itself. Her history of competing and winning against men. Wife of Bill Clinton. Having the nerve not to step aside and let Trump have a clear path to the WH. Or just being Hillary.

Joe Biden's made mistakes but not the kind that make him unmarked le to Independents and Republicans who are disenchanted by Trump. Biden could surprise a lot of pollsters, given time.

The thing to keep in mind is that 2020 doesn't have to be 2016. We are alert and more prepared.

[lunamagica]

45. We were alert and more prepared after Gore. We were alert and more prepared after Kerry

Turned out beautifully, didn't it?

[Autumn]

52. No he is not. But the media is still the same media, nothing changes there.

Same people, same games.

[honest.abe]

46. I wont even read this because its obvious garbage.

There is simply no comparison to 2016. Ridiculous to make that claim.

[crazytown]

47. If only

[WeekiWater]

48. Brought to you by....

Bernie Sanders is the most feminist 2020 candidate, as far as I'm concerned

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/27/bernie-sanders-is-the-most-feminist-2020-candidate-as-far-as-im-concerned

[NurseJackie]

53. OMG! Thank you!

[watoos]

56. I think the article is spot on,

Warren's and Sander's platforms are very similar are they not?

[NurseJackie]

57. ...

[still_one]

60. One campaign hired three people who voted for Jill Stein and helped put trump in the WH, and the

other campaign didn’t

One campaign is vague and loose and fast with the facts and figures, and the other campaign has specifics, and facts and figures to back those specific up

One candidate is not an expert in economics, and the othe candidate is an expert in economics

One candidate is alleged by the OP ED to be the most “feminist” candidate, and the other candidate is a woman who has experienced sexism directly

[stonecutter357]

54. #facknews !

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

58. This opinion - and you know what they say about opinions - isn't supported by facts.

This is one opinion from one person, and the writer isn't even from "outside of our country." She's British-Palestinian but she lives and works as a "brand strategist" in New York. She's also offered her similarly evidence-free opinion that Bernie is the most feminist of all the candidates.

[robbedvoter]

67. you mean, Russians will steal it again? Yeah, I know.

And Biden would onlt dream to have half of the smarts and qualifications of Hillary Clinton.

[mtnsnake]

71. That is one of the most ridiculous analogies I've ever heard, a tale written out of desperation

No offense to Hillary, but Biden is one of the LEAST polarizing of all political figures. Considering how many decades he's been involved in politics, he is probably one of the most likeable politicians as viewed from either side of the political aisle. Even ignoramus republican voters won't fall for that one.

[MineralMan]

72. Ah...Glenn Greenwald is writing for the Guardian again?