Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumBernie Sanders: Everyone deserves to vote, even felons like Paul Manafort & Michael Cohen
(snip)
Our country has had a long and shameful history of voter suppression. At our founding, despite rhetoric to the contrary, only land-owning white males were given the right to participate in our democracy. Lower income people, Women, Native Americans, African-Americans, and young people were excluded.
(snip)
If we are serious about calling ourselves a democracy, we must firmly establish that the right to vote is an inalienable and universal principle that applies to all American citizens 18 years and older. Period. As American citizens all of us are entitled to freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of assembly and all the other freedoms enshrined in our Bill of Rights. We are also entitled to vote. Yes. Even if Trumps former campaign manager and personal lawyer end up in jail, they should still be able to vote regardless of who they cast their vote for.
(snip)
When we look at the history of why our country has banned incarcerated people from voting, we must understand that the efforts to rob citizens of their voting rights was a legacy of slavery and continuing racist attitudes post-Jim Crow. After the ratification of the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments, which extended civil and legal protections to formerly enslaved people, many state governments rushed to create new felonies to put black people in jail and then institute lifetime disenfranchisement as a way to protect their own privilege and power.
(snip)
This should not devolve into a debate about whether certain people are good enough to have the right to vote. Voting is not a privilege. It is a right. In my view, the crooks on Wall Street who caused the great recession of 2008 that hurt millions of Americans are not "good" people. But they have the right to vote, and it should never be taken away.
(snip)
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/04/30/bernie-sanders-felons-deserve-vote-participate-democracy-suppression-trump-column/3621258002/
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
highmindedhavi
(355 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,452 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
dalton99a
(81,635 posts)who are in prison
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,452 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
nolabear
(41,993 posts)Corporations are running more and more prisons, and if you dont think theyd take measures subtle and otherwise to influence or force votes you trust a whole lot more than I do.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,452 posts)As for the private for profit prison industry, Bernie is for abolishing that 21st century version of slavery as well.
Link to tweet
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
MineralMan
(146,338 posts)Convicted felons don't, as long as they are serving their sentence.
We have the right to freedom of assembly, but convicted felons lose that right until they have served their sentence.
Freedom of speech is also restricted for incarcerated felons.
Rights can be restricted by courts of law, under specific circumstances, one of which is being incarcerated for a felony after due process.
I think convicted felons should be able to vote, as soon as they are out of prison.
People who are unjustly imprisoned for felonies should be able to contest their convictions through appeals and other means. If they succeed, all of their rights should be restored.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,452 posts)No one is arguing that prisoners should have the right to freedom of assembly.
Free of speech is restricted but not eliminated, prisoners do have the right to give voice regarding prison conditions, they also retain the right of freedom of religion, the right to vote is inherently tied to freedom of speech without the former, the latter means nothing.
People that are unjustly imprisoned may never find exoneration until decades after the fact or even after execution.
Eliminating any qualifier in regards to the right to vote strengthens voting rights for free Americans including dis-enfranchised former felons.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
MineralMan
(146,338 posts)It's not a popular position, so that will help my favorite candidate quite a good deal.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,452 posts)Last edited Tue Apr 30, 2019, 08:35 PM - Edit history (1)
high disapproval ratings has never stopped moral leaders from fighting against immoral policies that disenfranchises the weakest among us.
It didn't stop Martin Luther King and it isn't going to stop Bernie.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
MineralMan
(146,338 posts)Nail those 99 theses on the door...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,452 posts)Peace to you MineralMan.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Just no.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)It will be highlighted at a debate and Sanders pushing this is going to make our other candidates sound great. It makes no sense to push this as a stand alone issue. Keep beating the Drum, Sanders.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,452 posts)It will be highlighted at a debate and Sanders pushing this is going to make our other candidates sound great. It makes no sense to push this as a stand alone issue. Keep beating the Drum, Sanders.
and say it makes no sense to push this as a stand alone issue?
I thought you were opposed to Bernie?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)Im not sure what you dont get about my statement.
They are going to come out on top. Pushing this as a stand alone issue is foolish, at best. Something like this must be a part of a larger reform package and done in the background. As it stands, its nothing but pandering to a very small group. Im not the only one who believes all incarcerated persons should be able to vote and that Sanders isnt helping.
Let me make it clear what the Amendment King is good at. Letting other people do the hard work of comprehensive reform and then getting something like this slid in as an amendment. He isnt leading on this. He is small-ball campaigning with an amendment mindset. I hope he is successful at accomplishing this as a goal when the establishment puts forward and passes comprehensive criminal justice reform.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,452 posts)It will be highlighted at a debate and Sanders pushing this is going to make our other candidates sound great. It makes no sense to push this as a stand alone issue. Keep beating the Drum, Sanders.
and you believe all felons should have the right to vote but
They are going to come out on top. Pushing this as a stand alone issue is foolish, at best. Something like this must be a part of a larger reform package and done in the background. As it stands, its nothing but pandering to a very small group. Im not the only one who believes all incarcerated persons should be able to vote and that Sanders isnt helping.
Let me make it clear what the Amendment King is good at. Letting other people do the hard work of comprehensive reform and then getting something like this slid in as an amendment. He isnt leading on this. He is small-ball campaigning with an amendment mindset. I hope he is successful at accomplishing this as a goal when the establishment puts forward and passes comprehensive criminal justice reform.
that's after the establishment puts forward and passes comprehensive criminal justice reform, then isn't Bernie's actions helping them with that goal?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)Please keep pushing this. Its helping the Democratic coalition. Or as Sanders likes to call it, the establishment.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,452 posts)that Bernie is helping the Democratic coalition but you're asking him to stop?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)I think you should as well.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,452 posts)Peace to you WeekiWater.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
comradebillyboy
(10,177 posts)He would rather tilt at windmills than do the hard work of getting legislation passed. His 'policies' never get past the slogan phase.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ecstatic
(32,740 posts)thought into as far as real world implementation. I wish he'd stop doubling/tripling down on this. We have so many other things to worry about right now.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,452 posts)why would it be so difficult?
Sixteen other democratic nations allow their prisoners to vote.
https://www.newsweek.com/which-countries-felons-vote-1405142
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
trueblue2007
(17,242 posts)They can dam well vote when they get out of prison.
You should care soooooooooooooooo much about MY ability to vote .... not someone who slaughtered kids in schools. I'm sorry but in this case it is ME and people who aren't in jail who are voting people. People in jail .... do they even see candidates who are running for office. Do they get voters info etc
Berrnie needs to think this though before he spounts off aBOUT IT.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,452 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
trueblue2007
(17,242 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,452 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
trueblue2007
(17,242 posts)in terms of what i ask my candidate right now. i care more about health insurance, climate change, jobs, infrastructure, world peace, and WHAT WILL HELP PEOPLE .... NOT whether (violent offenders) a person in jail for slaughtering innocent people gets to vote or not.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,452 posts)What if they were non-violent?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
rgbecker
(4,834 posts)When people are temporarily away from home, say in the service, working abroad or just on a vacation trip they can, across the country use an absentee ballot to vote. No muss, no fuss. Prisoners can get mail and send letters. No biggie.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ecstatic
(32,740 posts)Can we really trust a private, GOP sponsored prison to collect absentee ballots?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ecstatic
(32,740 posts)That's how I feel as well. I think Bernie thinks this "prison voting rights" thing will get him more black votes, which is not only patronizing, but another huge miscalculation. My biggest concern with regard to our justice system isn't centered around prison, it's centered around my freedom. I want to be free to move about without being attacked or murdered by rogue police officers in my own home or in my car or anywhere else. Reforming and eliminating the unfairness in our criminal justice system is extremely important to me, but that doesn't mean that my life revolves around drugs, crime, jail and/or prison. It's disappointing that he continues to view everyone other than "working whites" as one dimensional stereotypes.
The irony is that my top issue is voting rights within the context of what's legally allowed right now. It would be nice and quite helpful if Bernie would say 1 or two words about the millions of people across the country who have a legal right to vote but have been kept from doing so due to voter purges and other dirty tricks. Just look at what happened in Georgia last fall. Focus on that, Bernie!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
rgbecker
(4,834 posts)The NC absentee ballot collector didn't need to use a private prison to do his thing. Could be he won't be voting when he gets to prison. That said, sometimes these crimes are found out and solved. If a Privately run prison (and in my mind there should not be privately run prisons) keeps the mail from their charges, I would imagine that would be found out pretty quickly.
That Bernie speaks out for the oppressed, including those in prison, rightly or wrongly, tells me he will not afraid to push his agenda for economic equally and social justice. Whether or not the country is ready for real change, I am and I hope Bernie gets a chance to show us the way from inside the White house.
Here's a quick search for Bernie saying "1 or two words about the millions of people across the country who have a legal right to vote but have been kept from doing so due to voter purges and other dirty tricks."
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=bernie+sanders+talks+about+voter+suppression
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
madville
(7,412 posts)1st, 2nd, and 4th amendment rights don't apply in prison. Why should voting be a protected right while the others are not?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,452 posts)both 1st Amendment.
Voting is inherently tied to freedom of speech, without the former, the latter would be meaningless.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Until then -no. Its a losing issue for Dems.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
rgbecker
(4,834 posts)I'd rather have our candidates be leaders with good ideas and the ability to move the country towards greater justice and economic equality. Sanders has championed great Democratic ideas, many from the days of FDR and he has moved the party and country in the right direction. Sure it has left some behind, but those people have idiots like Trump to vote for. Meanwhile those looking to solve our nation's problems can look to progressives like Sanders, Warren and Harris to lead them with new thinking.
Milk toast platitudes about the virtues of returning to the status quo is not going to stimulate people to show up and vote.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided