Breaking: Trump's DOJ launches probe against Trump officials - Brian Tyler Cohen

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Legal Breakdown episode 625: Trump’s DOJ launches probe against Trump officials.

Transcript:

You're watching the legal breakdown. So
Glenn, we have a crazy story here where
it looks like federal prosecutors, all
of whom are under the umbrella of Pam
Bondi at the DOJ are actually going
after Trump officials. So can you
explain what happened here?

Yeah, Brian, this is beyond curious.
This is something of an eyepopping story
because Donald Trump's US Attorney's
Office, part of the Department of
Justice, US Attorney's Office in
Maryland, apparently has an
investigation open into two Donald Trump
officials. Ed "Stop the Steal" Martin
who's presently the pardon attorney for
the United States and Bill Pulte who is the
director of the federal housing finance
agency. Now let me unravel this. This is
a contorted tale. So, Bill Pulte is the
character who keeps saying to Donald
Trump, making these referrals, saying,
"Oh, Leticia James committed mortgage
fraud and and Adam Schiff committed
mortgage fraud and you and and frankly,
you know, I've been sitting in the
Leticia James court hearings." And I
think that case is going to fail
spectacularly. But this Bill Pulte
character seems to be willing to do all
of Donald Trump's dirty bidding against
Donald Trump's perceived enemy and his
vehicle of choices, claiming they all
engaged in some kind of
mortgage fraud, which the evidence
doesn't seem to support. So think about
this. The US Attorney's Office, which is
under the Department of Justice, that
would be headed up by Pam Bondi, has
apparently initiated an investigation to
see whether Ed Martin and Bill Pulte
committed crimes in ginning up these
allegations that Adam Schiff and Leticia
James and others were engaged in some
kind of mortgage fraud. Now, let me let
me play out how this came to light.
There is a GOP activist who also happens
to be a realtor and she's running for
Congress out in California named
Christine Bish. Christine Bish,
according to the reporting, received a
grand jury subpoena indicating there's a
grand jury investigation looking into
some crime. and she goes to the Maryland
US Attorney's Office and she is
questioned, grilled for an hour or more,
not about whether Adam Schiff and
Leticia James committed mortgage fraud.
Um, because by the way,
Christine Bish had been sending
information to a tip line saying, "I
think Adam Schiff committed mortgage
fraud." She thought she was going to be
brought in as a possible witness on
that. But what she then reported was
that the prosecutors asked her all about
the conduct of Ed Martin and Bill Pulte
with the suggestion being that they may
have improperly, even criminally shared
information, personal information about
Adam Schiff that they shouldn't have.
They may have brought people in to this,
you know, probe that they were
conducting um that had absolutely no
right or authority to be involved. It
sounds like there might be a criminal
conspiracy um in violation of Adam
Schiff's rights. But she said, "I
thought I was going to go in there to
talk about the tips I provided saying
Adam Schiff is dirty on the mortgage
fraud front, and all of a sudden they're
asking me all these questions that seem
to implicate Ed Martin and Bill Pulte in
wrongdoing." So, you know, it really
does look like the tables are turning
here.

Glenn, obvious question here. Is it
crazy for me to think that it is outside
the realm of possibility that Pam Bondi,
again, this DOJ is going to investigate
or even possibly prosecute somebody who
is in Donald Trump's good graces in his
inner circle? I would say it is crazy of
any of us to believe that Pam Bondi,
Donald Trump's consigliore,
um would ever bring criminal charges
against one of Donald Trump's government
officials who's doing his dirty work
like Ed Martin or Bill Pulte. I find it
hard to believe. But, you know, here is
what gives me a little bit of hope that
maybe this will be a legitimate
investigation. you know, the the career
prosecutors at the Maryland US
Attorney's Office. I would interact with
them, you know, often because obviously
DC and Maryland shares a border and we
would often have cases or defendants or
cooperating witnesses in common. So I
would go up to their office, they would
come down to mine. They are a crack
outfit. It is a very solid US attorney's
office. And I haven't heard much
reporting that Trump or Pam Bondi or
Todd Blanche have tried to purge that
office of the good career prosecutors
that have been there for some of them
decades now. Well, this might be just
the kick in the ass that they needed.
Bingo. Bingo. Will these people now be,
you know, unlawfully terminated and
marched out of the Maryland US
attorney's office because they have the
nerve to look into potential wrongdoing
by Trump officials Ed Martin and Bill
Pulte? That may very well be. But it looks
like at least at this moment they are
going where the evidence takes them. And
let's just assume, bit of a thought
experiment, that the grand jury finds
enough evidence that Ed Martin and Bill
Pulte committed crimes and seeks to indict
them. Would Pam Bondi allow that
indictment to be issued? Would Donald
Trump allow that indictment to be
issued? And in the unlikely event it was
issued, how long before we saw Donald
Trump pardon his two, you know, cruddy
associates, Ed Martin and Bill Pulte. So,
it's really hard for me to see in this
day and age, right, in this environment
when Donald Trump is running a lawless
executive branch. Really hard for me to
see how the law rises up and is applied
to a couple of Donald Trump's cruddy
associates.
Okay. But is there a world in which
let's say they know that they're risking
their own jobs by virtue of doing this,
but is there a world in which these
federal prosecutors are engaging in this
process so that if and when this thing
is shut down at the federal level, maybe
they've done all the leg work so that
they could hand it off to state
prosecutors where Donald Trump
obviously, you know, doesn't have the
authority to shut it down and doesn't
have the authority to pardon them.
That could be that could be part of
their thinking. I I just happen to
think, Brian, you know, knowing what
career federal prosecutors are like,
because they were my friends and
colleagues for decades. They still are
my friends, frankly. Um, we're just
going to do the right thing.
Consequences be damned. We're going to
do the right thing. Even in this
environment, if it were me and crime was
brought to my attention, the last thing
that would enter the the the calculation
for me is how would Donald Trump feel
about whether I proceeded with this
investigation or not? I have two
words that come to mind for anybody who
would suggest that should enter into my
thinking. that. Do these
prosecutors have to get permission if
they're opening up investigations, you
know, not against the targets of Trump's
hire like James Comey, Adam Schiff,
Leticia James, whoever it may be, but in
fact the people who are engaging in the
political prosecutions against them,
meaning the Bill Pultes and other Trump
acolytes of the world. So, do they have
to run that up the chain and ask Pam
Bondi first, or can they just engage in
a fact finding mission and wherever it
leads is where it leads? So, it's a
great question and I'm going to say it's
not a one-size-fits-all
answer because for example, if um we
wanted to open a grand jury
investigation into an attorney for
possible criminal wrongdoing in their
capacity as an attorney, typically you
have to run that higher up the chain of
command, maybe beyond your section
chief. It might have to go to your
division chief, which is above the
section chief. It might have to go to
your US attorney. The US attorney might
decide it has to go over to main justice
to the deputy attorney general. That's
the number two. Or the attorney general.
If it's a a political figure,
ordinarily, you've got to run that well
up the chain of command. If it's just an
everyday case where it's like, okay,
it's a a bank robbery, which is a
federal crime. It's some kind of, you
know, financial crime. It's fraud. you
know, ordinarily your section chief, the
sort of your immediate supervisor can
give you the authority to open the grand
jury investigation and begin issuing
subpoenas. So, I have to believe and
this is good news actually. I have to
believe that given you've got that
you've got the pardon attorney and
you've got the director of the Federal
Housing Finance Agency. These are Donald
Trump's guys. Um, I have to believe it
went well up the chain within the U, the
US Attorney's Office for Maryland. I
find it really hard to conceive of it
going over to main justice and Todd
Blanche or Pam Bondi saying, "Yeah, go
ahead and open that criminal probe into
those two, you know, Trump officials."
It doesn't make a lot of sense given
everything we know about how Donald
Trump's Department of Justice has been
operating. Is there a world in which
this process could start? Knowing full
well that Pam Bondi won't try to indict
these people, knowing full well that
Donald Trump wouldn't allow any of this
to happen against his closest
confidants, but that in the event that a
Democrat wins in 2028 and a new
Department of Justice, a new attorney
general take over in 2029, that those
people could pick up against Bill Pulte
wherever this current batch of federal
prosecutors left off. You know, there is
a world in which these prosecutors are
doing the right thing for the right
reasons, documenting potential
wrongdoing by government officials, and
they're going to let the sort of chips
fall where they where they will. And if
it has the origins of an investigation
now, maybe when the rule of law comes
back into the light of day um with an
honest administration and a law-abiding
attorney general, maybe they can pick up
where um where this investigation was
forced to leave off if in fact it is
shut down by the Pam Bondis of the
world.
All right. Well, obviously a lot to
follow along with here. As you know,
federal prosecutors are going after
folks in the Trump administration for
possible crimes. So, we'll definitely
stay on top of this. For those who are
watching, if you'd like to follow along,
please make sure to subscribe. I'm going
to put the links to both of our channels
right here on the screen. I'm Brian
Tyler Cohen.
And I'm Glenn Kerschner.
You're watching the Legal Breakdown.