General Discussion

Mike Niendorff

(3,603 posts)

128. Sun Tzu :

Wed Jan 3, 2018, 01:37 AM

Jan 2018

"Do not do what you would most like to do,
Do what your enemy would least like you to do."

-- Sun Tzu, The Art of War

I have to believe that with the indictments that are about to come down against Kushner, Don Jr, and others, that the Dems took a calculated risk that the ongoing distraction of fighting this issue would be worse than the risk to the seat in 2018. So they opted to take the issue out of play. I suspect the same calculus was at work when it comes to John Conyers, as well.

I don't necessarily agree with this strategy, but with what's at stake this year I can see at least a reasonable argument as to why this might be the right thing to do at this time -- even assuming that the claims against Franken were ginned up for political reasons.

To be honest, I'm still on the fence, it's just a really tough call under these extreme circumstances.

MDN

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Those of you who think calling for Franken's resignation ... [View all] NanceGreggs Jan 2018 OP

Oh for fuckedy fucks sake. Kirk Lover Jan 2018 #1

What a nice, thoughtful response to one of the most eloquent and respected members of DU. Glorfindel Jan 2018 #7

Well I was just returning an eye roll that was given to me. Kirk Lover Jan 2018 #11

If you think that insulting DUers in a fit of pique is okay, you haven't read the Civility TOS much Hekate Jan 2018 #102

And what exactly is insulting about fuckedy fuck ? I mean you all need to lighten up and/or Kirk Lover Jan 2018 #118

The transporter machines finally worked. Beam you up ... . betsuni Jan 2018 #166

Stop the presses! NanceGreggs Jan 2018 #123

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ still_one Jan 2018 #52

Post removed Post removed Jan 2018 #179

+1 disndat Jan 2018 #184

Hard to argue ... NanceGreggs Jan 2018 #8

Thank you...I thought that I summed it up quite eloquently myself. Glad you Kirk Lover Jan 2018 #14

Obviously ... NanceGreggs Jan 2018 #34

And obviously NEITHER DO YOU! Kirk Lover Jan 2018 #38

Pretty Funny stuff, Captain! OAITW r.2.0 Jan 2018 #64

I actually came up with it earlier tonight on twitter...so it's new. But I kinda just meant... Kirk Lover Jan 2018 #68

Post removed Post removed Jan 2018 #79

Post removed Post removed Jan 2018 #116

If you don't want to discuss it, go away!! Alice11111 Jan 2018 #103

Post removed Post removed Jan 2018 #115

I've tried to explain the sarcasm thing to this rainin Jan 2018 #181

Way to articulate your point. Duppers Jan 2018 #27

This message was self-deleted by its author Kirk Lover Jan 2018 #40

This message was self-deleted by its author Skittles Jan 2018 #108

Gillibrand must resign kiri Jan 2018 #70

And on what grounds should she resign? Oh because you said so???? n/t Kirk Lover Jan 2018 #71

How about if six breitbart workers swore Jakes Progress Jan 2018 #81

What "reasoning" are you talking about...I haven't said shit. I asked what grounds should she Kirk Lover Jan 2018 #90

You're not getting it MrPurple Jan 2018 #99

Oh. The poster got it. Just refuses to engage with issue. Jakes Progress Jan 2018 #193

Thank you. Alice11111 Jan 2018 #101

Gillibrand is the only one taking heat for this stupid move. She had a lot of company. Hekate Jan 2018 #107

Wrong. She says what needs to be said. Alice11111 Jan 2018 #113

You are certainly right that she had company. Alice11111 Jan 2018 #114

Nobody is forgetting about her "company," believe me. MoonRiver Jan 2018 #183

No need for that. Im all for her staying in the Senate... JHB Jan 2018 #162

Ohhhh boy... FarPoint Jan 2018 #161

Soup! Soup! Soup! Yay! K&R rzemanfl Jan 2018 #2

I don't think we gained a damn thing all we did is doc03 Jan 2018 #3

... Lucinda Jan 2018 #4

My dear NanceGreggs, as always - always! - you get right to the heart of the matter Glorfindel Jan 2018 #5

Agree with you 100%. Asked DNC to explain it, but got no response. I will still sinkingfeeling Jan 2018 #6

Ask Gillibrand zentrum Jan 2018 #22

Ideological purity... Tie Gillibrand and Bachmann together keithbvadu2 Jan 2018 #30

And every other one that stood by G's side. None had the backbone to oppose this. Wwcd Jan 2018 #86

Yep Alice11111 Jan 2018 #105

15 Dem Senators did not join the mob WyLoochka Jan 2018 #158

You said it! True Blue American Jan 2018 #160

I did. Very terse reply. Alice11111 Jan 2018 #155

If The Democrats Lose That Seat This Year.... SoCalMusicLover Jan 2018 #202

I called the DNC several times too. Just like Wisconsin, ignored. Alice11111 Jan 2018 #112

The Franken situation has mostly served to put another rift through the Democratic party. PufPuf23 Jan 2018 #9

At least I can eat some popcorn wellst0nev0ter Jan 2018 #10

The Dems threw Sen Franken under the bus for nothing... TheDebbieDee Jan 2018 #12

The Dems & the Independent. ALL stood together hand in hand. Wwcd Jan 2018 #87

Let's all commit party suicide. Alice11111 Jan 2018 #117

Exactly...dumping our best Sen, rather than fighting the tax fuck bill Alice11111 Jan 2018 #106

Very well stated. Alice11111 Jan 2018 #110

+1 disndat Jan 2018 #204

TOTALLY on point! nt Raine Jan 2018 #13

Thank you! I'm glad you posted this. bitterross Jan 2018 #15

Well, now we have what used to be a safe seat in play. Democrats gave the GOP a gift lunamagica Jan 2018 #16

Truth. Played like a violin. Even the Repubs were shocked Alice11111 Jan 2018 #120

Yep. The simple dirty trick succeeded beyond their wildest dreams dalton99a Jan 2018 #130

The Repubs don't even have to finish us, just sit back and watch Alice11111 Jan 2018 #150

He can run for President. nt Xipe Totec Jan 2018 #17

I'd vote for him long before I would vote for Joe or Hillary or Howard or Bernie...just sayin' pecosbob Jan 2018 #19

There is NO ONE who could compete against Al Franken. Wwcd Jan 2018 #89

I think the Dems neutered him for 2020. What motive?? Alice11111 Jan 2018 #121

Yes. I'm fking pissed. Wwcd Jan 2018 #136

He would have been, and he would have been one of the best, Alice11111 Jan 2018 #149

Patience Nederland Jan 2018 #18

Oh, the "someday you'll understand ... NanceGreggs Jan 2018 #37

Indeed! For some Democrats I have no patience. dchill Jan 2018 #61

!!! Alice11111 Jan 2018 #122

Begging the question Nederland Jan 2018 #94

If by "standing by our core princples" you mean COLGATE4 Jan 2018 #111

Of course! NanceGreggs Jan 2018 #124

Franken was not found guilty of anything Nederland Jan 2018 #172

Something something keep our powder dry... JHB Jan 2018 #163

And with Bachmann or another idiot Republican taking the seat in a year... krispos42 Jan 2018 #39

What makes you so certain... Nederland Jan 2018 #69

Yeah. Just like Hillary Clinton was sure to win. kcr Jan 2018 #127

I never said she was sure to win Nederland Jan 2018 #174

Oh please. tymorial Jan 2018 #187

Amen, sister! cp Jan 2018 #20

I think it was a terribly miscalculated move to further their careers... and for a few of them lunamagica Jan 2018 #21

THAAAANK YOUUUUUUU... pangaia Jan 2018 #23

Why did he resign? WhiskeyGrinder Jan 2018 #24

Is that meant to be a serious question? n/t NanceGreggs Jan 2018 #48

More specifically, I'm wondering why he felt the need to resign. WhiskeyGrinder Jan 2018 #58

Well, gee ... NanceGreggs Jan 2018 #67

Well, let me explain my two-sided view bucolic_frolic Jan 2018 #25

Can you please explain ... NanceGreggs Jan 2018 #59

Any payoff from this fiasco bucolic_frolic Jan 2018 #66

So Franken ... NanceGreggs Jan 2018 #73

It's a very similar wedge issue to 2016 bucolic_frolic Jan 2018 #178

This was initiated by Nixonian dirty trickster Roger Stone 90-percent Jan 2018 #26

What it accomplished was to show how easily any Democrat can be ratfucked right out of office mn9driver Jan 2018 #28

Notice all the dubious allegations against him ended when he announced his resignation. Efilroft Sul Jan 2018 #36

I was wondering if anyone else noticed that. n/t susanna Jan 2018 #145

Somewhere are Republicans exclaiming: "That was easy!" Beartracks Jan 2018 #180

This 1000000+ catrose Jan 2018 #29

Thank you, dear lady! Duppers Jan 2018 #31

I suspect it is even worse. Pobeka Jan 2018 #32

I just read through years of Frankens tweets riverwalker Jan 2018 #33

They have also helped defame him dalton99a Jan 2018 #46

I'm trying to understand why Progressive dog Jan 2018 #35

So ... NanceGreggs Jan 2018 #45

It was not a "demand" Progressive dog Jan 2018 #198

Because I don't think Dems did the right thing Ghost Owl Jan 2018 #62

Well said, particularly your last paragraph, which is spot on, IMO. ms liberty Jan 2018 #168

The Senators who asked Franken to resign Progressive dog Jan 2018 #196

It's not consistency Ghost Owl Jan 2018 #199

It is consistency Progressive dog Jan 2018 #200

This is all wrong. Not right. dchill Jan 2018 #63

When Franken resigned, he took due Progressive dog Jan 2018 #195

What makes you think that this was the right thing? pazzyanne Jan 2018 #167

Al Franken took your vote away, Progressive dog Jan 2018 #194

Sorry but there are pazzyanne Jan 2018 #205

My way seeing things is Progressive dog Jan 2018 #206

Oh Nance so silly Egnever Jan 2018 #41

At last I hope many of you will join me in cutting off any and all donations to the Senate maddiemom Jan 2018 #92

May I suggest that those with the ability to donate spooky3 Jan 2018 #100

What a coincidence riverwalker Jan 2018 #42

+1 dalton99a Jan 2018 #49

Republicans aren't taking about Al Frankin as a response to Moore and Trump. aikoaiko Jan 2018 #43

And the whole thing would have gone away by now if we would all STFU about it. meadowlander Jan 2018 #55

I cant speak for anyone else, but I think people feel as if there has spooky3 Jan 2018 #104

"It sucks that he had to take a fall." NanceGreggs Jan 2018 #126

At least we found out that Gillibrand is unfit for any serious future consideration. n/t MrModerate Jan 2018 #44

Yes we did. blue cat Jan 2018 #56

I hope so connecticut yankee Jan 2018 #74

So wait? The accusations against Franken aren't enough in your mind, unless Republicans mythology Jan 2018 #47

No accusations are not enough Egnever Jan 2018 #53

Thank you from pazzyanne Jan 2018 #169

So let's just accuse everybody since there's no need for evidence. Sorry, but I sinkingfeeling Jan 2018 #75

So if eight of your coworkers accuse you of something ... NanceGreggs Jan 2018 #84

One temp coworker & six strangers you met briefly, four of whom accuse you anonymously. Demit Jan 2018 #157

Guilty of WHAT? riverwalker Jan 2018 #88

+1 dalton99a Jan 2018 #134

Kind of Pretzel Logic There ProfessorGAC Jan 2018 #175

I am mad as hell at Gillibrand, Harris and Warren question everything Jan 2018 #50

Convicted in the Senate ladies room Mopar151 Jan 2018 #156

This is depressing because its our own party mountain grammy Jan 2018 #51

Thank you, Nance. My boundless gratitude to you for bringing your eloquence to bear on this issue. scarletwoman Jan 2018 #54

Thank you for having the huevos to put this out there. fierywoman Jan 2018 #57

Act in haste, repent at leisure. betsuni Jan 2018 #60

Shame seta1950 Jan 2018 #65

We are weaker and our party is diminished... NurseJackie Jan 2018 #72

it really doesn't matter elmac Jan 2018 #76

When tone-deaf Democrats go to war.... mudstump Jan 2018 #77

Democrats love to kick their base in the teeth... mudstump Jan 2018 #78

This is very well stated customerserviceguy Jan 2018 #80

Once again we turn the victory of having a warrior like Franken on our side, into a defeat. Binkie The Clown Jan 2018 #82

You are aware that when any potential Democratic Presidential candidate applegrove Jan 2018 #83

Dems lost on this one. Snackshack Jan 2018 #85

I don't even care what they fucking think anymore Skittles Jan 2018 #91

We gained madamesilverspurs Jan 2018 #93

The Republicans lost a powerful election year counter point. Anna Izmail Jan 2018 #95

They didn't lose anything - none of them are going to vote against Trump on this MrPurple Jan 2018 #109

How a man treats a woman matters. Anna Izmail Jan 2018 #119

Oh, so it matters. But not enough to cancel out whatever those other reasons are. kcr Jan 2018 #133

Yeah, that's why they didn't vote for him when the pussygate tape came out. kcr Jan 2018 #129

In fact he did lose a lot of support. Anna Izmail Jan 2018 #132

I have bad news for you. kcr Jan 2018 #135

And I have bad news for you. Anna Izmail Jan 2018 #138

You're mistaken. Al Franken didn't quit. kcr Jan 2018 #140

I'm not doing a happy dance. Anna Izmail Jan 2018 #144

I'm going to march in lock step with Al Franken: if he runs again, I'll sinkingfeeling Jan 2018 #164

I agree with you, Nance. PatrickforO Jan 2018 #96

The man was loved by millions BEFORE he became a great Senator. Wwcd Jan 2018 #153

What you said, Nance Hekate Jan 2018 #97

+100000000000000 Alice11111 Jan 2018 #98

These are some great questions Gothmog Jan 2018 #125

Sun Tzu : Mike Niendorff Jan 2018 #128

It was a chess move by Schumer. jg10003 Jan 2018 #131

It is very obvious that this was nothing but a political maneuver. We are all well aware. kcr Jan 2018 #137

It's never a good chess move ... NanceGreggs Jan 2018 #139

Schumer sacrificed a knight in order to promote a pawn. Except that the knight was immediately jg10003 Jan 2018 #142

That knight wasn't captured ... NanceGreggs Jan 2018 #143

I think we have reached the limits of the chess metaphor jg10003 Jan 2018 #148

Porcupines and late hours...also, where's that soup? n/t rzemanfl Jan 2018 #182

So... pazzyanne Jan 2018 #171

In addition to what you've said, Franken's resignation now leaves to endure Michele Bachmann's Neema Jan 2018 #141

From the sublime to the ridiculous dalton99a Jan 2018 #147

As if we haven't endured enough as a country. eom. Neema Jan 2018 #151

Thank you. susanna Jan 2018 #146

Post removed Post removed Jan 2018 #152

Face it Nance. Al Franken was clearly suffering from delusions. Ernest Partridge Jan 2018 #154

Would you mind clarifying what "oligarchy" you're referring to? brooklynite Jan 2018 #185

Senator Michelle Bachmann! wolfie001 Jan 2018 #159

Well said. DLevine Jan 2018 #165

Credibility. Trumpocalypse Jan 2018 #170

I wonder why this OP is not appearing on DU's homepage under "Greatest Threads"? demmiblue Jan 2018 #173

I can't even reply anymore...I'm just devastated by Franken's resignation nadine_mn Jan 2018 #176

I regret that I have but one rec to give for this post. n/t Beartracks Jan 2018 #177

Ditto n/t harun Jan 2018 #190

Say it! tymorial Jan 2018 #186

K&R stonecutter357 Jan 2018 #188

Franken probably knows how much truth there was in the allegations... Orsino Jan 2018 #189

There was no truth in the allegations. And the fact that he treated his accusers with respect ucrdem Jan 2018 #191

k and r, and spot on, as always. niyad Jan 2018 #192

I'm interested in knowing as well Proud Liberal Dem Jan 2018 #197

They don't listen and will never get it! Chasstev365 Jan 2018 #201

Perfectly stated, Nance. Al is a huge loss. It is still shocking R B Garr Jan 2018 #203