General Discussion

thesquanderer

(12,760 posts)

259. Two things...

Sun Jun 10, 2018, 06:03 PM

Jun 2018

1. I don't think one should attribute to Sanders things you don't like about his supporters. I would offer Clinton and any other candidate the same consideration, as every campaign has its more fanatical followers.

2. More to the point, allowing for your premise that the difference is that Sanders criticized the party and not merely his competitor, I think it's plain silly to suggest that those criticisms cost Clinton the election. Sanders certainly did nothing to suggest that voters would be better off voting either for a Republican in general or Trump in particular. The number of voters who chose not to vote Dem because Sanders was critical of the party is probably not even a blip among all those other reasons people decided not to vote for her.

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DNC Rule Change: Want Dem nomination for President? Must be a Democrat and run and serve as a Dem [View all] stevenleser Jun 2018 OP

Fair enough Zambero Jun 2018 #1

Open primaries and disenfranchising caucuses need to be ditched also. brush Jun 2018 #222

"run and serve" How will this apply to Manchin? leftstreet Jun 2018 #2

Clap louder. theaocp Jun 2018 #5

Myopic BS that gave us candidates that are besties with payday lenders and private prisons pecosbob Jun 2018 #141

This isn't complicated. Register as a Democrat, stay that way, and caucus with Democrats. nt stevenleser Jun 2018 #7

I don't think there is a way to Register as a Dem in, say, Vermont. (n/t) thesquanderer Jun 2018 #98

Sen. Leahy is a Democrat. nt brer cat Jun 2018 #121

This comes up all the time, but Patrick Leahy has RUN as a Democrat for decades. See: George II Jun 2018 #122

That's not the same as *registering* as a Dem, which is what SL wanted in the comment I replied to. thesquanderer Jun 2018 #127

But this entire discussion is about candidates... George II Jun 2018 #128

Yes there is too...that is simply untrue. Sen. Sander is running in the Democratic primary Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #149

You can RUN as a Dem without REGISTERING as a Dem. thesquanderer Jun 2018 #159

He could register if he chose...in fact he did in 16 and promised to remain a Dem...it is on google. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #166

Not in Vermont, though. I think it was NH? thesquanderer Jun 2018 #172

Ahhh...fyi, there is a Democratic Party in Vermont. A certain senator... brush Jun 2018 #223

You cannot "register" as a Democrat, that was my point. But also... thesquanderer Jun 2018 #227

He has the Circle D on his jersey. n/t QC Jun 2018 #23

It's West fucking Virginia... I'll take it! And I'll be glad to have it! It is what it is. NurseJackie Jun 2018 #66

Would you take a left-leaning indie in a really blue state? leftstreet Jun 2018 #85

I think this means Presidential nominees Tavarious Jackson Jun 2018 #90

Is that putative candidate a registered Democrat already? Hekate Jun 2018 #91

If they caucus with the Dems, they give you the same numbers as if they were Dems (n/t) thesquanderer Jun 2018 #97

Not for purposes of electing Speaker of the House or Senate Majority Leader Hekate Jun 2018 #106

I don't believe in open primaries and if you won't join the party...I won't caucus with you. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #164

All the Dems in Congress have a different perspective. thesquanderer Jun 2018 #173

No. George II Jun 2018 #123

Absolutely not. I vote for Democrats. The lefty leaning independent can fuck off. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #151

No, I mean if they join the party leftstreet Jun 2018 #153

Manchin is a Democrat...dangerous ground there...I will vote for Democrats but not independents. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #165

Excellent! leftstreet Jun 2018 #178

+10000 and AMEN! skylucy Jun 2018 #108

Personally, I think the Manchin haters brer cat Jun 2018 #142

I've had posts removed for talking about Manchin. pecosbob Jun 2018 #140

He is a Democrat and if we are to get a majority, or even hold the line we need red state Democrats. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #152

Well, this IS Democratic Underground, and the ground rules are PatrickforO Jun 2018 #209

I met Jimmy Carter twice while he was in office and I was in the service pecosbob Jun 2018 #211

No, don't lurk! You're cool. PatrickforO Jun 2018 #213

I was not quite old enough to vote but even I knew then that Reagan was pulling the strings on the ChrisTee Jun 2018 #239

Indeed. Same thing with Nixon, though I was in my early teens at that time. PatrickforO Jun 2018 #243

I was in northern California and I have always been politically/current events oriented. ChrisTee Jun 2018 #246

Manchin is a Democrat who is fighting a tough battle...He is a Democrat. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #148

Indeed. n/t progressoid Jun 2018 #171

Good. highplainsdem Jun 2018 #3

I agree. kstewart33 Jun 2018 #100

What a charade. theaocp Jun 2018 #4

The "fascists" are only laughing because a divisive primary race allowed Trump to win. stevenleser Jun 2018 #6

Post removed Post removed Jun 2018 #10

Take back the media. theaocp Jun 2018 #30

Yep. That too. nt Susan Calvin Jun 2018 #150

Right on! True Blue American Jun 2018 #94

Sounds like someone here is refighting the primaries. (n/t) thesquanderer Jun 2018 #99

Sounds like someone is making a threat. Blue_true Jun 2018 #115

Nope, I didn't alert on it. I think it breaks the rule, though. (n/t) thesquanderer Jun 2018 #118

Current news why is this difficult MrPool Jun 2018 #206

The OP is current news. The post I was replying to was not. thesquanderer Jun 2018 #217

"And the party is more than just the DNC." - AMEN! Susan Calvin Jun 2018 #235

Find just one time when he has said something nice about MrPool Jun 2018 #249

Well, he has said nice things about Hillary Clinton. ;-) thesquanderer Jun 2018 #257

That is not why Trump won. Susan Calvin Jun 2018 #147

Not the thumb on the scale BS again. Hillary won by 4 million votes. It wasn't close. stevenleser Jun 2018 #221

So there was no need for the thumb. nt Susan Calvin Jun 2018 #234

There was no thumb. This is made up BS. nt stevenleser Jun 2018 #236

No, not really "made up BS" - take that up with.. disillusioned73 Jun 2018 #266

That's not a thumb on scale. First of all that's her opinion, which she took back and said was wrong stevenleser Jun 2018 #272

The only thumb on the scale was against Hillary. Ninsianna Jun 2018 #250

Here is a thumb HRC had not many recognize.HRC had to coddle Sanders and his supporters while ChrisTee Jun 2018 #253

This is a lie MrPool Jun 2018 #256

Oh please. I was alive and paying attention. Susan Calvin Jun 2018 #260

No, you weren't paying attention. You invented reasons for your candidate losing because stevenleser Jun 2018 #262

OFFS. Susan Calvin Jun 2018 #284

This revionist history now.. disillusioned73 Jun 2018 #267

Your attempt to nullify what the voters chose is what is insulting. nt stevenleser Jun 2018 #273

Your attempt to recruit the ill informed/ underinformed disillusioned73 Jun 2018 #275

This message was self-deleted by its author redgreenandblue Jun 2018 #280

Damn u and ur common sense. BootinUp Jun 2018 #8

This is literally the most commonsense rule mankind has ever created. n/t manor321 Jun 2018 #9

Being forced to state an obvious. I agree. One would think it is a given. ChrisTee Jun 2018 #11

Does the rule stipulate the candidates must be party-affiliated for X amount of time... Garrett78 Jun 2018 #12

I actually responded to you in the other thread to tell you why I disagreed with you stevenleser Jun 2018 #14

And my thoughts remain the same. Garrett78 Jun 2018 #16

And I disagree, as I said in the other thread... stevenleser Jun 2018 #17

Phrases like "faithful to the party's interests" are too ambiguous. Garrett78 Jun 2018 #21

Ambiguous to whom? To a DNC grievance committee? To a court? It's not ambiguous. stevenleser Jun 2018 #22

Let's pretend we agree...do you think a public court case would be wise? Garrett78 Jun 2018 #24

Yes. I'm playing the long game here. This has to be stopped permanently. A court battle could very stevenleser Jun 2018 #25

We can't afford to be hurt for one election cycle, and certainly not the 2020 cycle. Garrett78 Jun 2018 #28

We can't afford to be hurt for multiple election cycles including 2020 by similar nonsense. nt stevenleser Jun 2018 #29

I'm not suggesting we not push back against nonsense claims. Garrett78 Jun 2018 #34

Post removed Post removed Jun 2018 #74

Have you considered a career in acting? Because that drama was almost Oscar worthy. stevenleser Jun 2018 #77

Oscar, eh? Plucketeer Jun 2018 #89

In some states you have to register months before the election. brush Jun 2018 #225

Good. Drahthaardogs Jun 2018 #13

A quote from LBJ: cloudbase Jun 2018 #15

The problem is, the person most recently in question was inside pissing on everyone inside. nt stevenleser Jun 2018 #18

GMTA n/t DFW Jun 2018 #20

Bingo. kstewart33 Jun 2018 #101

I didn't get pissed on. progressoid Jun 2018 #175

You're not an elected official of the party. nt stevenleser Jun 2018 #181

So the tent is only for party officials? progressoid Jun 2018 #182

No, but the analogy is. nt stevenleser Jun 2018 #230

He was first outside pissing in and continued once he was let in. brush Jun 2018 #226

Even more accurate than what I wrote. Thank you for that amplification. 100% correct. stevenleser Jun 2018 #229

Because him running as an independent would have been better? Cuthbert Allgood Jun 2018 #276

Just curious DFW Jun 2018 #19

I didn't get pissed on. progressoid Jun 2018 #176

Ya, you did. You just processed it as a spring rain. ChrisTee Jun 2018 #184

Thanks for the analysis doctor. progressoid Jun 2018 #189

Sure. ChrisTee Jun 2018 #190

Yes, I wonder what LBJ would have to say about that? Cha Jun 2018 #205

LBJ would of MrPool Jun 2018 #207

lol.. Cha Jun 2018 #208

Heehee. I can see that now. LBJ towering over him. brush Jun 2018 #228

Apparantley LBJ MrPool Jun 2018 #248

Oh god, he definitely would have! NastyRiffraff Jun 2018 #244

I totally agree. Now he can run as an independent and will split the vote guaranteeing smirkymonkey Jun 2018 #26

That's up to him. You can't live your life or run an organization out of fear of blackmail as to stevenleser Jun 2018 #32

All I care about is that Trump gets voted OUT. smirkymonkey Jun 2018 #36

Until the next crazy GOP candidate, and the next. This is the second time this has happened. stevenleser Jun 2018 #49

While I agree with your goal and general position DFW Jun 2018 #215

Your side of this argument is the one which is in favor of blackmail. nt redgreenandblue Jun 2018 #269

No amount of spin will make this statement of yours correct. nt stevenleser Jun 2018 #271

STFU theaocp Jun 2018 #33

The REALITY is.. You have to be a Democrat to run for Cha Jun 2018 #204

That is a LOT of imposition on state's rights to determine voting. Cuthbert Allgood Jun 2018 #277

I don't think Bernie will have the impact that he expects running as an Indy. Blue_true Jun 2018 #116

He will be neutralized regardless MrPool Jun 2018 #252

His refusal to make his tax returns public will absolutely doom his chances. Blue_true Jun 2018 #255

he can't split votes, he simply does not have as much support as his Ninsianna Jun 2018 #251

I agree with this. Running as Independent will show how little support he has. ChrisTee Jun 2018 #258

We already tried that.. it didn't work. Cha Jun 2018 #202

It's amazing to me that this is even needed NastyRiffraff Jun 2018 #27

Yeah. If they are Green or Independent, they should just stay that way. Sophia4 Jun 2018 #45

Again, the blackmail argument. As if we are asking so much. stevenleser Jun 2018 #46

It is a silly, childish rule. We should be focused on including people and persuading Sophia4 Jun 2018 #51

Pretty basic actually. You want organization X's support, join and don't denigrate organization X. stevenleser Jun 2018 #54

So we let someone into our house. Blue_true Jun 2018 #117

+1000! mcar Jun 2018 #131

+1000 (nt) ehrnst Jun 2018 #137

Indeed n/t susanr516 Jun 2018 #138

Exactly! put your money where your mouth is. R B Garr Jun 2018 #143

Teach It, Blue! Cha Jun 2018 #188

"Bitter and foolish?" Speak for yourself, not Democrats. ehrnst Jun 2018 #144

No. Done with Greens...join the party or sit at home vote for your hopeless candidates who spoil Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #155

Wow sheshe2 Jun 2018 #183

No, you're Wrong once Again, Sophia. You must Cha Jun 2018 #186

"We"? sheshe2 Jun 2018 #193

Expecting a candidate to be a Democrat in order to be the Democratic nominee is childish? George II Jun 2018 #242

Right? Lol. ChrisTee Jun 2018 #247

So I think those anti-abortion Dems are crapping on the party ut oh Jun 2018 #212

They're not so no. nt stevenleser Jun 2018 #231

The Democratic party welcomes anyone NastyRiffraff Jun 2018 #68

And, after all, having the word "Democrat" after your name permanently is what it is Sophia4 Jun 2018 #75

But we're not talking about voters NastyRiffraff Jun 2018 #80

++++++++++++++++++ sheshe2 Jun 2018 #194

What did allowing an independent to run as a Democrat do for us in 2016? csziggy Jun 2018 #86

Sanders is not the reason Trump beat Clinton in 2016. thesquanderer Jun 2018 #104

Yes of course, folks being divisive could never possibly have affected the election. stevenleser Jun 2018 #133

+1000 (nt) ehrnst Jun 2018 #139

Every non-incumbent primary involves competitors. thesquanderer Jun 2018 #146

+1 progressoid Jun 2018 #177

Trump copied Sanders attacks on her. R B Garr Jun 2018 #210

You think Trump couldn't/didn't come up with similar attacks regardless? thesquanderer Jun 2018 #219

OMG, how completely off base. The fact that you neglect to R B Garr Jun 2018 #238

Sanders didn't just criticize Clinton, he criticized the Party. His supporters accused the party of stevenleser Jun 2018 #232

Two things... thesquanderer Jun 2018 #259

Would that include HRC supporters tell BS supporters that they aren't needed? Cuthbert Allgood Jun 2018 #278

Nope, it wouldn't. nt stevenleser Jun 2018 #281

Post removed Post removed Jun 2018 #157

I think you need to brush up on what actually Cha Jun 2018 #192

People who advocate for or vote for third party candidates R B Garr Jun 2018 #240

Did you ever return to your OP that got so many replies? 214 thoughtful replies so far... Hekate Jun 2018 #93

Still no answer as to why the hit and run on Cha Jun 2018 #113

I remember that ...I don't believe the OP posted any replies but I could be wrong. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #158

Yep. A thousand yeps. nt kstewart33 Jun 2018 #102

Sounds resonable unitedwethrive Jun 2018 #31

We'd probably ridicule them and point out how provincial that rule is. Sophia4 Jun 2018 #37

No, we wouldn't. At least not most of us. nt stevenleser Jun 2018 #41

Post removed Post removed Jun 2018 #47

Oh we know what comes of folks attacking the Democratic party from the left alright. stevenleser Jun 2018 #57

Or are they the result of Democrats attacking likeminded people. Sophia4 Jun 2018 #69

I understand you are concerned, Sophia4. Very concerned. Also not a student of history, it seems. Hekate Jun 2018 #96

Well then tell Bernie that. sheshe2 Jun 2018 #120

+1000 NastyRiffraff Jun 2018 #167

:) sheshe2 Jun 2018 #168

I really like this measure and hope that is passes Gothmog Jun 2018 #195

W and Trump were both attacked by flanks of their own parties. thesquanderer Jun 2018 #109

Hmm sheshe2 Jun 2018 #119

"Someone coming in doing it better." I have not heard one person ever, having this concern (or fear) ChrisTee Jun 2018 #129

Welcome to DU, ChrisTee. sheshe2 Jun 2018 #174

Too bad you don't like the Brilliant Rule that Cha Jun 2018 #136

Hey, Cha. sheshe2 Jun 2018 #179

I have no idea why that's Cha Jun 2018 #180

P.S. Especially since it's right in the Title Cha Jun 2018 #201

I agree with your analysis Gothmog Jun 2018 #197

My analysis.. Thank You, Goth! Cha Jun 2018 #198

I am so glad that several blue states will have ballot access laws in place for 2020 Gothmog Jun 2018 #196

Post removed Post removed Jun 2018 #35

The blackmail angle will never be persuasive. nt stevenleser Jun 2018 #38

Exactly. Why not start a new party if your aim is to present differing ideas? unitedwethrive Jun 2018 #39

Of course they won't do that because they know they don't have the numbers. The Green party has stevenleser Jun 2018 #43

not a very good argument. drray23 Jun 2018 #84

No, you have it all Wrong, Sophia.. The Democratic Cha Jun 2018 #134

It's not unreasonable... Adrahil Jun 2018 #135

I dont think that is too much to ask? kentuck Jun 2018 #40

I don't think a bunch of left-leaning third-party candidates is the way to go. Gore1FL Jun 2018 #42

Again, the blackmail argument is not persuasive. nt stevenleser Jun 2018 #44

No one is threatening blackmail. Words matter. Don't go Fox News on me. nt Gore1FL Jun 2018 #59

It's blackmail. "You need to do what I say or X bad things will happen". nt stevenleser Jun 2018 #61

Attracting flies with honey rather than vinegar is blackmail. Got it. Gore1FL Jun 2018 #65

Sanders could not be more exclusive. ChrisTee Jun 2018 #241

What does Sanders have to do with this? Gore1FL Jun 2018 #279

Actually, "win elections" should still be the superseding rule. JohnnyRingo Jun 2018 #48

You're interpretation is incorrect. Those differing Republicans register Republican & don't crap on stevenleser Jun 2018 #52

Post removed Post removed Jun 2018 #50

Welcome to DU DesertRat Jun 2018 #53

Bullshit Fresh_Start Jun 2018 #58

How is this a "war on progressives?" That's utter nonsense. Adrahil Jun 2018 #67

Between this and the super delegate change LostOne4Ever Jun 2018 #55

Be a Democrat. Simple. DesertRat Jun 2018 #56

So Joe Manchin, Dan Lipinski, Heidi Heitkamp, guillaumeb Jun 2018 #60

All of that depends. Register as a Democrat, Caucus as a Democrat, don't attack the party. stevenleser Jun 2018 #63

The whole idea is stupid. Hassin Bin Sober Jun 2018 #82

Is there some way to alert on Eliz. Warren? n/t QC Jun 2018 #87

No but because of her remarks, I won't vote for her in a primary. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #161

Yes...They can win in their states....your version of progressive can't. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #160

I am a Democrat erlewyne Jun 2018 #62

And? nt stevenleser Jun 2018 #64

Aw. NurseJackie Jun 2018 #72

Same here. Sienna86 Jun 2018 #216

The only problem I see with this rule is that it should state stopbush Jun 2018 #70

I agree. See my #14 above, I am very curious as to what lines 1-18 say. stevenleser Jun 2018 #76

agree. Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #162

Speaking of "taking" and "giving", a month or so ago Elizabeth Warren spoke... George II Jun 2018 #71

Good krawhitham Jun 2018 #73

Like Chris Koster loyalsister Jun 2018 #78

Worthless marylandblue Jun 2018 #79

This is a No-Brainer dlk Jun 2018 #81

100% Civic Justice Jun 2018 #83

About time Hekate Jun 2018 #88

Think like a Liberal snort Jun 2018 #92

So flouting rules is cool and unauthoritarian? Trump wants no rules, and he's bettyellen Jun 2018 #112

"Authoritarian" my Cha Jun 2018 #114

K&R ! stonecutter357 Jun 2018 #95

Post removed Post removed Jun 2018 #103

Oh please. That was an already tired line 36 months ago. stevenleser Jun 2018 #105

A DNC committee has adopted a rule that presidential candidates must be party members. Gothmog Jun 2018 #107

. snort Jun 2018 #110

Excellent! sheshe2 Jun 2018 #111

Aint it though! ucrdem Jun 2018 #125

It sure is, ucrdem. sheshe2 Jun 2018 #126

Very smart move. Can a DU rule change be far behind? ucrdem Jun 2018 #124

About time grantcart Jun 2018 #130

K&R betsuni Jun 2018 #132

Thank you for posting this! blue cat Jun 2018 #145

don't think they can enforce that. dembotoz Jun 2018 #154

The national party makes the rules...let me remind you in 08, Hillary could count the votes in Demsrule86 Jun 2018 #163

But the State runs the election dembotoz Jun 2018 #214

Yes they can. If there is a question on eligibility it will affect whether someone gets votes and stevenleser Jun 2018 #233

remains to be seen...running a renegade populist campaign did ok for clown trump dembotoz Jun 2018 #254

Nope, it doesn't and Trump didn't face eligibility questions. People don't like to waste time and stevenleser Jun 2018 #261

you put too much trust is peoples affection for the dnc dembotoz Jun 2018 #263

Nope, I am not considering that one way or the other . I think you underestimate stevenleser Jun 2018 #282

Time will tell dembotoz Jun 2018 #283

Wonderful nt Sunsky Jun 2018 #156

I hope they wrote it so you have been registered as a Democrat for atleast the last 5 years cstanleytech Jun 2018 #169

"Give me access to your party's resources" Roy Rolling Jun 2018 #170

K&R murielm99 Jun 2018 #185

Post removed Post removed Jun 2018 #187

From my twitter feed Gothmog Jun 2018 #191

K&R Scurrilous Jun 2018 #199

Politico- DNC rule change angers Sanders supporters Gothmog Jun 2018 #200

To listen to all the Berner's and the Jill Steinistas Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jun 2018 #203

Hey, BERNIE!!! They're talking about/to YOU. DinahMoeHum Jun 2018 #218

Overdue rule change Progressive dog Jun 2018 #220

LOL Kurt V. Jun 2018 #224

This Will Disappoint the Freeloaders dlk Jun 2018 #237

About time dalton99a Jun 2018 #245

What a disaster.. disillusioned73 Jun 2018 #264

And people wonder why the DNC gets accused of "rigging". redgreenandblue Jun 2018 #265

LOL betsuni Jun 2018 #268

Bingo.. disillusioned73 Jun 2018 #270

Not unreasonable Rule. Non-Democratic candidates can start own Party instead of leaching of Dems Lil Missy Jun 2018 #274