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NNadir

(36,196 posts)
42. Perhaps the scientists at Genentech, rather than be thought greedy, shouldn't have done...
Sat Aug 8, 2020, 08:02 AM
Aug 2020

...the clinical trials.

That would have saved them embarrassment and you $2000 a shot. Everybody wins, right?

One of the the things that someone has to do for an ocular drug is to bioanalysis in aqueous humor. To do this, one needs to built a calibration curve in a blank, quality control samples in a blank. How many people do you know who donate aqueous humor by tolerating an injection in their eyes? As a practical matter, one needs cadaver aqueous humor, and it can take years to accumulate enough to develop and validate a bioanalytical method. Or else one has to justify using bovine aqueous humor or rabbit aqueous humor, which involves analyzing all of the components in various species and submitting an argument to regulatory that they are "close enough." (This is, by the way, what almost always happens but...

...Have you ever tried to buy human aqueous humor? What do you think it costs?)

Avastin is an engineered protein. There are three ways to do bioanalysis in a protein, one by digestion, another by a technique known as ELISA, which involves raising antibodies in animals, isolating them, purifying them qualifying them and storing them until they're needed - the latter being no small issues - and the latter being intact high resolution mass spec.

A high resolution mass spec runs between half a million dollars and over a million dollars - these instruments are sensitive enough to measure billionths of a gram. For more than half a century, hundreds of thousands of professors, grad students, electrical engineers, materials scientists, physicists, computer scientists, biochemists have worked to make these instruments work. They are not run by high school students, and the data isn't interpreted by game show hosts.

Now, once Genentech, that greedy company filled with rapacious executives who live to rip you off, decided to "invest" in making the anti-angiogenic drug Avastin approved for ocular injections, they just didn't write in on the label, "Oh yeah, you can inject in an eye too!"

They would have faced fines of tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars for doing so.

They had to do animal studies, probably with rabbits, including bioanalysis, and perhaps with monkeys. What do you think it costs to maintain a colony of monkeys? Cheap? Easy? They had to have highly trained veterinarians administer the drug to the eyes of rabbits and monkeys. They had to design a syringe with a narrow enough bore to inject eyes - no small feat for a viscous protein solution, in fact a major problem for every protein drug. They had to make sure that the materials in that syringe did not leach any polymer antioxidants that destroyed the activity of the drug, and conduct stability trials lasting three to four years, paying chemists to analyze (with mass specs and/or HPLC) samples stored under rigorously controlled conditions involving back up generators, all kinds of sensors to continuously record temperature and humidity, using multiple methods that required weeks of high level scientists work to develop, and weeks more to validate.

While all this is going on, they needed to get to a point, after multiple meetings with regulatory authorities at the FDA, EMA, Health Canada, etc, etc, at which they could recruit people willing to have their eyes injected with an experimental drug. These people are paid of course, to be subjects, but it's only a small part of the costs. A clinical trial research organization employs nurses, pharmacists, statisticians, and physicians to continuously monitor all events associated with the trial.

After all of this a report is issued - a book length report - and returned to the regulatory authorities for review.

If everything fits together, if the drug is safe, and effective for the treatment of macular degeneration, then, and only then, can the greedy executives at Genentech begin to rape their customers by charging them to save their eyesight.

And let's be clear about something OK? Genentech executives know damned well that the injection can be achieved by cowboy doctors using approved Avastin for cancer treatments off label.

Nevertheless, they were willing to try to get the drug approved for a small population whose eyesight might be saved.

For all this, they wanted to (gasp) make some money. You know, I think my mechanic should fix my car at a loss because, well, damned, I need to get to work, don't I?

Greedy bastards.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Not a one RainCaster Aug 2020 #1
Come on, there has to be at least one, but... AmyStrange Aug 2020 #5
they are legalized extortion Skittles Aug 2020 #2
It's all about the money isn't it? AmyStrange Aug 2020 #3
This!👆 SheltieLover Aug 2020 #4
Yep PatSeg Aug 2020 #14
Corporations. Newest Reality Aug 2020 #6
You're not doing a good job of convincing me otherwise, and... AmyStrange Aug 2020 #7
They can't be altruistic. Legally, if they are a corporation, they must do AJT Aug 2020 #8
Ok, finally something to make me think otherwise... AmyStrange Aug 2020 #9
Democrats had a filibuster-proof majority of 60 votes in the Senate for four months and 10 days betsuni Aug 2020 #11
Thank you, but... AmyStrange Aug 2020 #13
No Republicans voted for it, all Democrats and Independents. betsuni Aug 2020 #15
Thank you for you're elaboration, and... AmyStrange Aug 2020 #16
I'm sure you knew this already. betsuni Aug 2020 #43
Nope, I didn't know the details, and... AmyStrange Aug 2020 #45
thats not true SiliconValley_Dem Aug 2020 #48
Thanks for the added info, and... AmyStrange Aug 2020 #71
They are exactly what is expected from a capitalistic society. unitedwethrive Aug 2020 #10
Ok, this helps too, but... AmyStrange Aug 2020 #12
I have worked with the pharmaceutical industry for more than 3 decades. NNadir Aug 2020 #17
Talking down to my moral inferiors? AmyStrange Aug 2020 #18
Let's not pretend that your question wasn't loaded, OK? NNadir Aug 2020 #19
Believe what you want, and... AmyStrange Aug 2020 #20
Here's why you're perceptions are off... AmyStrange Aug 2020 #21
Were that the case, you'd be researching relevant and peer-reviewed sources. LanternWaste Aug 2020 #72
You're wrong AmyStrange Aug 2020 #74
You mean Shkreli? Pharma bro? moondust Aug 2020 #22
I heard it was because they can, but... AmyStrange Aug 2020 #23
I don't think ANY of them are altruistic Luciferous Aug 2020 #24
Come on, there must be at least one or two, or... AmyStrange Aug 2020 #26
they exist to turn a profit for their shareholders spanone Aug 2020 #25
That's what other people have said, but... AmyStrange Aug 2020 #27
Several of the scientists and their other employees... Buckeye_Democrat Aug 2020 #28
2,000 dollars!!! AmyStrange Aug 2020 #29
That was the cost nearly a decade ago. Buckeye_Democrat Aug 2020 #30
Wow! AmyStrange Aug 2020 #31
The FDA approval process is pretty long and costly sometimes. Buckeye_Democrat Aug 2020 #32
Wait a minute. Can't they write all that off... AmyStrange Aug 2020 #33
I always thought those costs were the burden of the companies... Buckeye_Democrat Aug 2020 #34
I don't know if I am right or not... AmyStrange Aug 2020 #35
Get some good rest! Buckeye_Democrat Aug 2020 #36
I'll try, and take care of yourself also... AmyStrange Aug 2020 #37
You too! Buckeye_Democrat Aug 2020 #38
Perhaps the scientists at Genentech, rather than be thought greedy, shouldn't have done... NNadir Aug 2020 #42
Thanks for the info, but... AmyStrange Aug 2020 #44
Let me understand this question... NNadir Aug 2020 #50
I DO understand that drug companies want to make money, and... AmyStrange Aug 2020 #54
"Let's say it costs $1,000,000..." NNadir Aug 2020 #55
Thank you, but... AmyStrange Aug 2020 #59
If it costs $1 billion dollars to develop a drug - a common and reasonable figure - you need... NNadir Aug 2020 #62
You make a good case, and... AmyStrange Aug 2020 #63
Google is your friend. Here's a list of 31 pharmaceutical companies in danger of bankruptcy in 2020 NNadir Aug 2020 #66
Hmm, If companies are losing money... AmyStrange Aug 2020 #70
Let's see. Should we characterize all of us by Rod Blagojevich and Dan Rostenkowski because... NNadir Aug 2020 #73
What the hell dude... AmyStrange Aug 2020 #75
It's Part Of SG&A In Most Cases ProfessorGAC Aug 2020 #53
I'm sure that you're right... AmyStrange Aug 2020 #58
The Cost To Make That One Pill... ProfessorGAC Aug 2020 #67
I agree, and... AmyStrange Aug 2020 #69
I'm glad things worked out, but... AmyStrange Aug 2020 #49
I don't understand the hostility. Buckeye_Democrat Aug 2020 #65
Check your in-box AmyStrange Aug 2020 #68
The more disease there is, the more they make. gulliver Aug 2020 #39
I can see that with drugs... AmyStrange Aug 2020 #57
With all due respect..... liberaltrucker Aug 2020 #40
No respect needed... AmyStrange Aug 2020 #46
No way RANDYWILDMAN Aug 2020 #41
I didn't know this... AmyStrange Aug 2020 #47
Oh brother. NurseJackie Aug 2020 #51
What's your opinion on the Master Bates discussion here? AmyStrange Aug 2020 #56
No way in hell! nt Raine Aug 2020 #52
I'll take that as an emphatic no, and... AmyStrange Aug 2020 #64
Is Bloomberg a legitimate source here? AmyStrange Aug 2020 #60
I'm having a problem finding the cost for FDA approval... AmyStrange Aug 2020 #61
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