Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,047 posts)
90. Getting the apples and oranges right can be tricky at times
Fri Jun 25, 2021, 08:05 PM
Jun 2021

There are the population rates, and the rates among the tested, and the rates among outcomes.

The 0.8% figure I've seen is a rate among outcomes: the percentage of those who died who were vaccinated.

The 1.8%, give or take a few tenths, is usually a rate among the tested: the percentage of those people with positive tests. Of all the people vaccinated AND tested positive, about 1.8%, give or take, died. Like of all the people not vaxed AND tested positive about 1.8% died.

It makes sense because to test positive though vaccinated indicates an effectively total failure of that dose, either a slipup in manufacturing that vial or box of vials, or in the injecting or who knows what.

Further making the statistics murky is the vaccination status. One shot or two rarely makes it into the newsreader's precious seconds reporting the story.

Rates among tested and among outcomes are apples and oranges.


K&R sheshe2 Jun 2021 #1
Ty, She! SheltieLover Jun 2021 #9
Bottom line: vaccination ALMOST ENTIRELY eliminates illness, hospitalizations, and deaths. Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2021 #66
That doesn't match any numbers I've seen - Ms. Toad Jun 2021 #88
Getting the apples and oranges right can be tricky at times Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2021 #90
It will be a long time before we sort out the case fatality rate. Ms. Toad Jun 2021 #91
Your last paragraph is now comparing them to papayas: rates among outcomes, tested, and populations Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2021 #92
Agreed. Ms. Toad Jun 2021 #97
Just want to pop in to say that vaccine effectiveness apparently varies by age as well. JudyM Jun 2021 #102
That's been known (or at least predicted) for quite a while. Ms. Toad Jun 2021 #103
Right, in general, but clinical data bearing it out WRT Covid among very elderly is recent. JudyM Jun 2021 #105
Further, your last paragraph mis-states what I said. You again confuse rates Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2021 #93
So let's say 100,000 people who died - just to make it concrete. Ms. Toad Jun 2021 #98
Another analyical perspective, a bit more technical Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2021 #96
They include deaths that are not related to Covid, unfortunately. Maraya1969 Jun 2021 #107
The (miniscule) numbers I am referring to Ms. Toad Jun 2021 #112
Thanks for posting this SL! Quakerfriend Jun 2021 #2
Yw! SheltieLover Jun 2021 #7
Out of 151,000,000 fully vaccinated? SoonerPride Jun 2021 #3
No. It's about 100 times more dangerous than lightening fescuerescue Jun 2021 #8
49 people die from lightning - lots more are hit. Peppertoo Jun 2021 #25
That not taking into account frequency FreeState Jun 2021 #40
Win the lotto? catch covid? mountain grammy Jun 2021 #37
This message was self-deleted by its author wnylib Jun 2021 #45
What's the concern? wnylib Jun 2021 #49
Exactly! Enough of the fear porn already. If you're vaccinated you have a very tiny chance beaglelover Jun 2021 #53
That's not the risk level. Ms. Toad Jun 2021 #89
So you think vaccinated outcomes equal unvaccinated outcomes? SoonerPride Jun 2021 #94
A basic understanding of math is your friend. Ms. Toad Jun 2021 #99
The median age of death of vaccinated individuals is 82 SoonerPride Jun 2021 #100
Quite the non-sequitur - Ms. Toad Jun 2021 #101
Out of 178,300,000 fully vaccinated people. Voltaire2 Jun 2021 #4
Thank you. SoonerPride Jun 2021 #5
Thank you. Treefrog Jun 2021 #10
"see, you said it would be safe and look how many people got sick or died because of it AZLD4Candidate Jun 2021 #22
Thank you!! Peppertoo Jun 2021 #26
Most likely anti vaccine peeps. C Moon Jun 2021 #59
I am vaccinated. SoonerPride Jun 2021 #81
Why do you call it fear mongering? wnylib Jun 2021 #84
Because 4,100 hospitalizations out of 151,000,000 SoonerPride Jun 2021 #85
Take a look at what is happening wnylib Jun 2021 #106
Another way to look at it in Illinois of those who died in the hospital from covid since January mucifer Jun 2021 #31
Wider statistics show a rate of about 0.8 percent; hence 120 times the rate of vaccinated. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2021 #68
Thank you for the excellent news! 750 / 150 million 99.9995% effective in preventing death. lagomorph777 Jun 2021 #6
Yw. Yes it is great. SheltieLover Jun 2021 #14
I wear mask & shield when I go out; still spray anything entering the house with isopropyl. lagomorph777 Jun 2021 #15
Good for you!!! SheltieLover Jun 2021 #17
My protocols are the same... StarryNite Jun 2021 #21
Despite having been vaccinated 8 weeks ago lapfog_1 Jun 2021 #11
I'm masking too. I was vaccinated early, and we don't know yet how long the vaxes are effective. Scrivener7 Jun 2021 #12
Right! SheltieLover Jun 2021 #16
I'm the same, though it took me ages and a road trip to get vaxxed. Treefrog Jun 2021 #28
Wow. That sounds miserable. Scrivener7 Jun 2021 #29
It was. And I had the headache I've heard reported by so many. Treefrog Jun 2021 #32
And even asymptomatic infections can result in long-haul SheltieLover Jun 2021 #41
Yes, I've not been back to the doc, but I have some things still happening I believe are linked. Treefrog Jun 2021 #46
Sorry to hear! SheltieLover Jun 2021 #69
Yw! SheltieLover Jun 2021 #13
If you are vaccinated Covid is like the ordinary flu. Peppertoo Jun 2021 #18
Even asymptomatic cases can result in long-haul SheltieLover Jun 2021 #19
In unvaccinated people. Peppertoo Jun 2021 #24
I had Covid last year. Treefrog Jun 2021 #29
Yes, it is not ordinary. But you were not vaccinated prior, right? Peppertoo Jun 2021 #33
No, this was before the vaccine. Treefrog Jun 2021 #35
Great point! SheltieLover Jun 2021 #44
No shite! Treefrog Jun 2021 #47
No. It's not. Ms. Toad Jun 2021 #87
4100 out of 150 million makes me think the odds are pretty good I wont get it uponit7771 Jun 2021 #20
Meanwhile, how many people who weren't fully vaccinated PoindexterOglethorpe Jun 2021 #23
The mRNA vaccines have all been determined to be 91% effective in preventing disease. Warpy Jun 2021 #27
Very true! SheltieLover Jun 2021 #48
The article refers to concerns that breakthrough infections are on an upswing and Ford_Prefect Jun 2021 #34
Yes, the trend & fact that asymptomatic infections can result in long-haul SheltieLover Jun 2021 #54
That's scary ... YoshidaYui Jun 2021 #36
I still mask & social distance, etc. SheltieLover Jun 2021 #55
You have greater chance of becoming POTUS than catching CV19 uponit7771 Jun 2021 #60
Thanks for keeping us updated Meowmee Jun 2021 #38
That was my whole reason for posting! SheltieLover Jun 2021 #56
👍🏻 Meowmee Jun 2021 #58
... SheltieLover Jun 2021 #67
If this risk scares you, then you should never get into a car ever again. Yavin4 Jun 2021 #39
Excellent point. SoonerPride Jun 2021 #42
Be kind Maggiemayhem Jun 2021 #43
Yes, she did! SheltieLover Jun 2021 #57
OK, let's all remember some things: Red Pest Jun 2021 #50
Good info. smirkymonkey Jun 2021 #82
So, in a less sensational headline: Vaccines 90+% effective at preventing hospitalization & death. Fiendish Thingy Jun 2021 #51
My wife is an ICU nurse who treats Covid patients. LastDemocratInSC Jun 2021 #52
OhioChick's Er doc son lost 8 fully vaxed young adults to delta last week SheltieLover Jun 2021 #61
Covid 19 will be a pre-existing condition for decades! nt Heartstrings Jun 2021 #64
For sure! SheltieLover Jun 2021 #65
It's 50-60 percent more contagious, not 50 times. Mariana Jun 2021 #86
You're correct. I was wrong. Thank you for the correction. LastDemocratInSC Jun 2021 #104
KnR Hekate Jun 2021 #62
1500 per day die of obesity related issues.... Jon King Jun 2021 #63
Thanks for this post I_UndergroundPanther Jun 2021 #70
OhioChick's Er doc son lost 8 fully vaxed young adults to delra last week SheltieLover Jun 2021 #71
Motley Fool is not a medical journal. I do agree with the " Stay Safe!" mucifer Jun 2021 #83
35 year olds in December were saying Jakes Progress Jun 2021 #72
Absolutely! SheltieLover Jun 2021 #73
Perfectly said Bucky Jun 2021 #79
I find that I like to lessen my chances of being a statistic of a breakthrough cases. I'll keep chowder66 Jun 2021 #74
Same here, Chowder! SheltieLover Jun 2021 #75
: ) chowder66 Jun 2021 #76
Even asymptomatic infections can result in long-haul. SheltieLover Jun 2021 #77
We still have a lot to learn. In the meantime..... chowder66 Jun 2021 #78
We sure do have a lot to learn! SheltieLover Jun 2021 #80
What I would like to see is a comparison of vaccinated people's deaths per 100,000.... LAS14 Jun 2021 #95
What exactly did they die from? former9thward Jun 2021 #108
Unclear SheltieLover Jun 2021 #109
KnR Niagara Jun 2021 #110
Thx! SheltieLover Jun 2021 #111
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»CDC says roughly 4,100 pe...»Reply #90