Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
General Discussion
Showing Original Post only (View all)Why the US didn't kill 12,000 civilians in 6 weeks of combat in Iraq [View all]
https://www.justsecurity.org/74619/avoiding-collateral-damage-on-the-battlefield/I'm far from an apologist for US military adventurism but what we're seeing in Gaza is simply medieval.
Importantly, it is the expected collateral damage and the anticipated military advantage that drive proportionality analysis. Thus, proportionality determinations are made ex ante, not post factum. The determinative factors are what the attacker knew, or should have known, regarding collateral damage and what military advantage the attacker reasonably expected to achieve; proportionality is not assessed based on the collateral damage or military advantage that eventuated, except as they bear on the reasonableness of the attackers analysis at the time the attack was planned, approved or executed. In practice, this is a highly subjective determination because it compares dissimilar values collateral damage and military advantage that are themselves hard to measure. As a result, while still important, the more protective rule on the battlefield is that requiring precautions.
Compliance with these rules by those conducting attacks is operationalized through guidance imposed by higher echelons of command, processes designed to assess the likelihood of collateral damage and identify ways to avoid causing it, and technologies that offer the attacker precision, greater clarity in the battlespace, and redundant capabilities. We turn to these next.
U.S. and coalition forces use rules of engagement (ROE) to restrict the application of force during armed conflict, in part to limit civilian casualties to the extent feasible (Operational Law Handbook, ch. 5). ROE are more restrictive than LOAC, for they also incorporate policy and operational constraints and are usually tailored to the specific battlefield environment in which they apply. The rules can restrict such matters as acceptable targets, the geographic range of operations, time of operations, and the use of particular munitions. ROE also sometimes reinforce LOAC provisions that might be of particular significance in certain combat environments, such as the prohibitions on the destruction of religious and cultural property when being applied in situations of internecine conflict. In many circumstances, they tighten them, as in the case of restricting operations against religious facilities being illegitimately used by the adversary to self-defense scenarios only.
InfoView thread info, including edit history
TrashPut this thread in your Trash Can (My DU » Trash Can)
BookmarkAdd this thread to your Bookmarks (My DU » Bookmarks)
96 replies, 5442 views
ShareGet links to this post and/or share on social media
AlertAlert this post for a rule violation
PowersThere are no powers you can use on this post
EditCannot edit other people's posts
ReplyReply to this post
EditCannot edit other people's posts
Rec (31)
ReplyReply to this post
96 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Why the US didn't kill 12,000 civilians in 6 weeks of combat in Iraq [View all]
WarGamer
Nov 2023
OP
When people emphasize the nuclear bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I always want to remind
Martin68
Nov 2023
#42
Carthage was unique because Rome literally "erased" an entire civilization and culture.
WarGamer
Nov 2023
#16
How it anti-semitic when there are multiple quotes in the last two months
Big Blue Marble
Nov 2023
#28
"The suggestion that Israel is trying to "erase" Palestinians is antisemitic." How can it be antisemitic if
Martin68
Nov 2023
#44
But at this point... I don't see the IDF making even the most basic threat assessments and BDA...
WarGamer
Nov 2023
#9
Maybe Israel will let the UN into GAZA to make an accurate reporting of the numbers...
WarGamer
Nov 2023
#24
Anyone watching this horror knows that the deaths are being undercounted.
Big Blue Marble
Nov 2023
#31
We also don't know how true that 12,000 number is, most likely highly inflated.
EX500rider
Nov 2023
#56
I put it to you, WarGamer, that your 6-week debate point is meaningless. So what? As a gamer you appear
Martin68
Nov 2023
#48
Ex500, if we assume the proportion of Hamas fighters to the civilian population is one percent, then a
Martin68
Nov 2023
#50
Why would it be proportionate when Hamas is the actual target of the airstrikes?
EX500rider
Nov 2023
#55
I fear your math and your knowledge of real world urban warfare are sadly lacking. You quoted the 12,000
Martin68
Nov 2023
#91
But the bombings are not eliminating Hamas so, as undesirable as it is, ground troops...
brush
Nov 2023
#40
Let me know when there's criminal proceedings concerning Hamas and they're recent activities.
paleotn
Nov 2023
#49
They're responsible for heinous crimes of late, but many here don't seem to be in much of a twist about it
paleotn
Nov 2023
#71
There's not anywhere NEAR the level of freak out if Hamas or Hezbollah do something particularly egregious.
paleotn
Nov 2023
#75
Many more years of war... sectarian violence and civil war... add in terrorism.
WarGamer
Nov 2023
#70