General Discussion

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)

31. if it's so sure-fire, why did he do poorly in english? but for my money, writing

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 10:46 PM

Nov 2012

high school and intro college essays does nothing for writing skills beyond basic organization - which doesn't develop higher-level writing skills. it develops the ability to write boring 4 paragraph essays with a topic sentence & support in an assembly-line style.

you develop higher-level writing skills by reading a wide variety of higher-level work, and understanding it.

and fwiw, there's nothing wrong with the kid's writing sample here except for one sentence -- which could easily be the result of a typo, an editing oversight, or transition from his writing medium to "print". the message he's trying to convey comes through clearly and the writing is reasonably consise.

you had a similar error in one of your posts here. so heal thyself, physician. you got no room to criticize the kid.

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One teen’s standardized testing horror story (and where it will lead) [View all] proud2BlibKansan Nov 2012 OP

Education now about profit for testing companies. And test-scoring companies. And Billionaires. madfloridian Nov 2012 #1

internal vs. external motivation d_r Nov 2012 #2

Omg, it's good to see you here. LiberalAndProud Nov 2012 #14

+1 HiPointDem Nov 2012 #27

"It's a racket" progressoid Nov 2012 #76

It is indeed. n/t pnwmom Nov 2012 #84

Well one place a degree in Journalism won't lead today Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #3

Now that you mention it, murielm99 Nov 2012 #5

Today? Not much... Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #16

"then no universities won't drop Journalism as a major until they absolutely must." HiPointDem Nov 2012 #28

Presumably this was meant to say dragonlady Nov 2012 #56

you can presume all you like; it's not grammatical, and the problem isn't just a HiPointDem Nov 2012 #57

The same mistake Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #143

no more than you. byee. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #153

LOL and you worked in the field, criticized some 18-year old's blog post, and your comment is shoddy CreekDog Nov 2012 #139

The days of the gum shoe reporter pipoman Nov 2012 #18

journalism isn't just about reporting, and while there are way less jobs than there HiPointDem Nov 2012 #54

Passing these exams is not about writing well. hunter Nov 2012 #112

Communication is a mechanical scoring system. Barack_America Nov 2012 #117

essay grading on standardized tests is an assembly line process. no "many" about it. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #156

i can vouch for that. you use a rubric with certain points you look for. the kid can use HiPointDem Nov 2012 #155

how old is he? CreekDog Nov 2012 #138

He makes it pretty clear that the focus of his coursework was on test prep, proud2BlibKansan Nov 2012 #9

He makes it clear that he was expected to write essays. Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #17

Boom!! Thanks for saying that! harmonicon Nov 2012 #23

oh bull. there's plenty of kids/people who don't test well, for various reasons, but HiPointDem Nov 2012 #38

Yeah, whatever. harmonicon Nov 2012 #86

do they give standardized tests to judge appearance & cooking? i had no idea. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #87

People who are shitty at tests are shitty at school. That's how it works. harmonicon Nov 2012 #161

In high school, my calculus teacher would tear his hair out because I did so poorly on tests Luminous Animal Nov 2012 #48

Yes, I know what you mean...I struggled with math all through Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #101

Standardized tests at the elementary level roody Nov 2012 #51

It's not good form to make readers guess what AP means either. "Schools hard and boring", not shit. xtraxritical Nov 2012 #58

It's one of the things from the poorly-written piece that I didn't look up. harmonicon Nov 2012 #85

Learning the hard way is what being a high school kid is all about! xtraxritical Nov 2012 #118

He's not a high school kid. harmonicon Nov 2012 #163

The kid didn't write it for WAPO readers. He wrote it on his blog, for an audience HiPointDem Nov 2012 #157

Is the style classified as "poor" or "shitty" officially? harmonicon Nov 2012 #164

it's a blog post. Don't you have more important things to be upset about? HiPointDem Nov 2012 #165

I care because I care deeply about education, its role in society, and that future. harmonicon Nov 2012 #166

test prep classes don't inspire anyone. classes of the type the student praised, do. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #167

That's why I never took AP classes. harmonicon Nov 2012 #168

If you don't understand it, then maybe you should not comment on it. CreekDog Nov 2012 #141

I think I understand it. harmonicon Nov 2012 #162

Expecting to write essays and developing writing skills are NOT mutually exclusive. silhouete2 Nov 2012 #29

Welcome to DU, and thank you for joining up. hrmjustin Nov 2012 #32

Thank you for that. My high school AP classes not only addressed a well constructed essay but a well Luminous Animal Nov 2012 #52

Welcome to DU iemitsu Nov 2012 #61

if it's so sure-fire, why did he do poorly in english? but for my money, writing HiPointDem Nov 2012 #31

Exactly. AP essay standards are incredibly formulaic. Starry Messenger Nov 2012 #34

lol. "developed better writing skills in college". i've done essay grading/norming HiPointDem Nov 2012 #37

Well, I went on for art and was lucky to have some writers as teachers. Starry Messenger Nov 2012 #94

i wasn't being snarky about learning better writing skills in college. i thought it was HiPointDem Nov 2012 #154

I missed a comma. Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #103

He did poorly Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #110

i didn't notice any in the excerpt (except for the other one in the same section, as noted HiPointDem Nov 2012 #158

Exactly, when in a class do what the teacher wants. When employed do what the employer wants. xtraxritical Nov 2012 #55

I took AP English in High School CaliforniaHiker Nov 2012 #66

Why would it not have passed muster in your journalism classes back in the 1960s? It's a personal coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #65

Subject matter has nothing to do with it...style and grammar, everything. Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #97

Well, I can see that textual criticism is not your forte, to put it mildly. Singh's piece coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #144

Whatever.... Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #149

OMG. You tell me there are numerous errors, & that's the kind of BS you come up HiPointDem Nov 2012 #160

you need to say why it wouldn't have passed CreekDog Nov 2012 #137

Here you go... Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #140

it's funny that you, the uber writing critic, are ignorant of the theme, the discussion, etc. CreekDog Nov 2012 #142

I made no claims to being a reporter. Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #145

i criticized you NOT because i thought Singh's post was brilliant or error-free, by no means CreekDog Nov 2012 #146

I think the easy way out Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #151

Two of my children went to our state's murielm99 Nov 2012 #4

If he wasn't capable of college-level work, he shouldn't have been in the AP class. Romulox Nov 2012 #6

Did you even read the article? proud2BlibKansan Nov 2012 #8

Yes indeed I did. The young man does not appear prepared for college-level course work. Romulox Nov 2012 #12

+1 harmonicon Nov 2012 #24

what a load of hooey. analyzing themes and characters is one of the things HiPointDem Nov 2012 #35

Nope. Not at the level he describes. He needs to APPLY that basic level of skill to earn AP Romulox Nov 2012 #42

I've taken every level of english class that exists and supposedly am in the top 1% HiPointDem Nov 2012 #50

Why can't you disagree without being disagreeable? Romulox Nov 2012 #68

no problem, i'll just put you on ignore. no great loss in missing the posts of some HiPointDem Nov 2012 #72

OK. You'll just find somebody else to attack, so the problem won't go away... Romulox Nov 2012 #75

For someone who places in the "top 1%" they sure have a strange writing style. joshcryer Nov 2012 #159

then he was obviously judged capable of higher level work, or he wouldn't have gotten HiPointDem Nov 2012 #33

OK. He still has to *DO* the high level work to earn the credit. Romulox Nov 2012 #43

that's his beef. the class didn't *do* the higher-level work. it was a test-prep HiPointDem Nov 2012 #45

The kid's WaPo piece is all over the place, without a strong central theme. Romulox Nov 2012 #47

lol. the central theme is quite clear, and the grammar is fine (at least in the excerpt) but HiPointDem Nov 2012 #49

Um, try reading *the piece*, rather than excerpt. This is a discussion about that piece, Romulox Nov 2012 #69

+1 ellisonz Nov 2012 #78

Great find. High-impact standard tests are ruining education. DirkGently Nov 2012 #7

Former h.s. English teacher. All I can say is, "Tell me about it." WinkyDink Nov 2012 #10

My High School junior daughter is not taking a single AP class exboyfil Nov 2012 #11

Just to let you know. aandegoons Nov 2012 #80

My daughter is planning on the University of Iowa exboyfil Nov 2012 #119

Congratulations, exboyfil, for figuring this out. Slowly, the word is getting out. antigop Nov 2012 #134

Sounds like you have a much better handle on everything than we did. aandegoons Nov 2012 #135

Standardized testing is not only for AP kids and college bound kids. You start in 3rd grade in MA. Mass Nov 2012 #13

Just to be clear: to get the AP credit, you must pass the AP test. Then you take the SAT. Romulox Nov 2012 #15

True but irrelevant. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #36

100% relevant. If the kid wants learning qua learning, AP class ain't the place. Romulox Nov 2012 #40

AP classes are not -- or didn't use to be -- test prep classes. AP classes began HiPointDem Nov 2012 #41

AP classes are held at high schools, not "elite colleges". You may be thinking of a different Romulox Nov 2012 #70

elite prep schools, i meant. no, i'm not thinking of another program. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #71

The wiki link does support the idea that those who fail to earn the credits are poorly served Romulox Nov 2012 #74

And in post #67 I list the score distributions. LOTS of students don't get college credit. nt antigop Nov 2012 #131

What were the essays about? Orangepeel Nov 2012 #19

And they're essays in which you analyze themes and characters TheCruces Nov 2012 #39

the guy is saying that there wasn't any analysis of themes and characters in the class. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #44

I have a hard time believing him on that TheCruces Nov 2012 #46

that's a different issue. i think it would be an unusual class -- & a pretty useless HiPointDem Nov 2012 #53

One hour of multiple choice; 2 hours of essays. JVS Nov 2012 #79

Can't help it, but this makes me think of National Lampoon's 1974 Stupid Aptitude Test eridani Nov 2012 #82

and a lot of the questions are poorly written. The student can make the case for several answers.nt antigop Nov 2012 #92

Japan is similar to this lbrtbell Nov 2012 #20

Hi Ankur dangin Nov 2012 #21

"Testing improves education the same way that bombing promotes democracy" jtuck004 Nov 2012 #22

Pretty much sums up American Education policy and Foreign policy kmlisle Nov 2012 #25

I think the entire AP system needs to be revisited. madaboutharry Nov 2012 #26

If your child can test out of a semester's worth of introductory level courses, it's worth it. FarCenter Nov 2012 #62

See post #67 for the score distribution on AP English. Low percentage of students will get credit. antigop Nov 2012 #91

With AP credits and a couple of summer sessions, my daughter got her BS in three years. FarCenter Nov 2012 #96

Well good for her -- but at least 40% of the test takers won't get credit n/t antigop Nov 2012 #98

And how much did she enjoy her high school years? How much stress was she under? n/t antigop Nov 2012 #99

She had a ball, and she enjoyed a number of extracurricular activities and sports FarCenter Nov 2012 #104

I'll bet she was under a tremendous amount of stress and she lost a year of her youth n/t antigop Nov 2012 #106

She didn't even get her summers off. Sad. n/t antigop Nov 2012 #100

College students have more time off than others who go to work out of high school and get 2 weeks. FarCenter Nov 2012 #105

doesn't matter. She still didn't get summers off from school. n/t antigop Nov 2012 #108

How wonderful...she lost a whole year of her youth as well. n/t antigop Nov 2012 #102

Well, she spent another 3 years getting a professional degree -- does that count as youth? FarCenter Nov 2012 #107

She would have had another year of her youth n/t antigop Nov 2012 #109

I'll repeat --- at least 40% of the test takers did not get college credit. n/t antigop Nov 2012 #111

A 60% chance of getting a college credit is worth about $1700, while the test costs $89. FarCenter Nov 2012 #113

In what universe would a 40% failure rate be considered a good idea? n/t antigop Nov 2012 #114

What percent of freshmen who try out for football make it to the varsity squad as seniors? FarCenter Nov 2012 #116

LOL. Comparing academics to sports. Unreal. n/t antigop Nov 2012 #120

Engineering schools often have attrition rates of 40% or above FarCenter Nov 2012 #124

Has nothing to do with sports analogy. n/t antigop Nov 2012 #125

Since you dismissed a sports analogy with academics, I replied with an academic analogy. FarCenter Nov 2012 #136

A 40% failure rate is a pretty damned big failure rate. n/t antigop Nov 2012 #147

Since you didn't answer the question, I'll ask it again... antigop Nov 2012 #148

As much as 60% of the students PAID FOR THE TEST and didn't get credit. FAIL n/t antigop Nov 2012 #126

It's a scam. n/t antigop Nov 2012 #127

Maybe because DIDN'T LEARN ANYTHING in the AP classes or are too burned out from them n/t antigop Nov 2012 #130

40% failure rate is still a failure. n/t antigop Nov 2012 #132

And I still feel sorry for your daughter, losing a year of her youth, probably stressed out and lost antigop Nov 2012 #121

deleted ....posted in wrong place antigop Nov 2012 #122

and it's only a 60% "CHANCE" -- even a score of "4" or "5" will not guarantee credit. antigop Nov 2012 #115

See post #67 for the score distribution on AP English. Low percentage of students will get credit. antigop Nov 2012 #93

It's not the grade you get in the AP class that gives you college credit, SheilaT Nov 2012 #152

Teaching to take a test is not teaching DiverDave Nov 2012 #30

This is the future?? No - it is already happening !! lunasun Nov 2012 #64

So he became such a great thinker that he can't do well on AP exams? aikoaiko Nov 2012 #59

he's in college, so apparently not. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #88

Doing well in AP classes is not a requirement for entry to college. aikoaiko Nov 2012 #90

Writing essays leads to greater rigor and organization of thought than discussion FarCenter Nov 2012 #60

Learning to write an in-class essay is an important skill he'll need in college. LeftyMom Nov 2012 #63

AP is mostly just a cash cow for the testing company. Take a look at the score distribution here antigop Nov 2012 #67

This is supposed to be a horror story? XemaSab Nov 2012 #73

In fairness to the author, the word 'horror' appears to have been coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #77

good catch. invalidates some of the other criticisms made, as his audience wasn't HiPointDem Nov 2012 #89

I think standardized testing is being misused. aandegoons Nov 2012 #81

standardized tests are imperfect and unfair, brokechris Nov 2012 #83

In what universe would a 40% failure rate be considered a good idea? See post #67. antigop Nov 2012 #95

The teen in the OP needs to view the documentary "Race to Nowhere" antigop Nov 2012 #123

I feel sorry for the kids whose parents force them to put up with this stress. n/t antigop Nov 2012 #129

Carlin: SomethingFishy Nov 2012 #128

+100 n/t antigop Nov 2012 #133

If a teacher gave a test and 40-60% of the students failed the test.... antigop Nov 2012 #150