General Discussion

Sekhmets Daughter

(7,515 posts)

151. I think the easy way out

Mon Nov 19, 2012, 05:09 PM

Nov 2012

would have been to ignore the entire thread. Making the less popular argument is never easy.

The knee-jerk reaction to "teaching to the test" that most, not all, are putting forth as new or well thought out opinion is neither informative nor productive and certainly not insightful. Teaching to the test is an absurdity grades 1 - 11. But Mr. Singh's complaint was with 12th grade AP English and he didn't like the fact that his sloppy grammar and immature style didn't earn him the high grade he expected. Sorry, that is his own failure. Aided and abetted by a previous teacher who had no focus on grammar.

I didn't chose to ignore anything, I chose, instead, to give a reasonable explanation as to why the young man received a disappointing grade in his AP English class.

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One teen’s standardized testing horror story (and where it will lead) [View all] proud2BlibKansan Nov 2012 OP

Education now about profit for testing companies. And test-scoring companies. And Billionaires. madfloridian Nov 2012 #1

internal vs. external motivation d_r Nov 2012 #2

Omg, it's good to see you here. LiberalAndProud Nov 2012 #14

+1 HiPointDem Nov 2012 #27

"It's a racket" progressoid Nov 2012 #76

It is indeed. n/t pnwmom Nov 2012 #84

Well one place a degree in Journalism won't lead today Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #3

Now that you mention it, murielm99 Nov 2012 #5

Today? Not much... Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #16

"then no universities won't drop Journalism as a major until they absolutely must." HiPointDem Nov 2012 #28

Presumably this was meant to say dragonlady Nov 2012 #56

you can presume all you like; it's not grammatical, and the problem isn't just a HiPointDem Nov 2012 #57

The same mistake Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #143

no more than you. byee. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #153

LOL and you worked in the field, criticized some 18-year old's blog post, and your comment is shoddy CreekDog Nov 2012 #139

The days of the gum shoe reporter pipoman Nov 2012 #18

journalism isn't just about reporting, and while there are way less jobs than there HiPointDem Nov 2012 #54

Passing these exams is not about writing well. hunter Nov 2012 #112

Communication is a mechanical scoring system. Barack_America Nov 2012 #117

essay grading on standardized tests is an assembly line process. no "many" about it. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #156

i can vouch for that. you use a rubric with certain points you look for. the kid can use HiPointDem Nov 2012 #155

how old is he? CreekDog Nov 2012 #138

He makes it pretty clear that the focus of his coursework was on test prep, proud2BlibKansan Nov 2012 #9

He makes it clear that he was expected to write essays. Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #17

Boom!! Thanks for saying that! harmonicon Nov 2012 #23

oh bull. there's plenty of kids/people who don't test well, for various reasons, but HiPointDem Nov 2012 #38

Yeah, whatever. harmonicon Nov 2012 #86

do they give standardized tests to judge appearance & cooking? i had no idea. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #87

People who are shitty at tests are shitty at school. That's how it works. harmonicon Nov 2012 #161

In high school, my calculus teacher would tear his hair out because I did so poorly on tests Luminous Animal Nov 2012 #48

Yes, I know what you mean...I struggled with math all through Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #101

Standardized tests at the elementary level roody Nov 2012 #51

It's not good form to make readers guess what AP means either. "Schools hard and boring", not shit. xtraxritical Nov 2012 #58

It's one of the things from the poorly-written piece that I didn't look up. harmonicon Nov 2012 #85

Learning the hard way is what being a high school kid is all about! xtraxritical Nov 2012 #118

He's not a high school kid. harmonicon Nov 2012 #163

The kid didn't write it for WAPO readers. He wrote it on his blog, for an audience HiPointDem Nov 2012 #157

Is the style classified as "poor" or "shitty" officially? harmonicon Nov 2012 #164

it's a blog post. Don't you have more important things to be upset about? HiPointDem Nov 2012 #165

I care because I care deeply about education, its role in society, and that future. harmonicon Nov 2012 #166

test prep classes don't inspire anyone. classes of the type the student praised, do. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #167

That's why I never took AP classes. harmonicon Nov 2012 #168

If you don't understand it, then maybe you should not comment on it. CreekDog Nov 2012 #141

I think I understand it. harmonicon Nov 2012 #162

Expecting to write essays and developing writing skills are NOT mutually exclusive. silhouete2 Nov 2012 #29

Welcome to DU, and thank you for joining up. hrmjustin Nov 2012 #32

Thank you for that. My high school AP classes not only addressed a well constructed essay but a well Luminous Animal Nov 2012 #52

Welcome to DU iemitsu Nov 2012 #61

if it's so sure-fire, why did he do poorly in english? but for my money, writing HiPointDem Nov 2012 #31

Exactly. AP essay standards are incredibly formulaic. Starry Messenger Nov 2012 #34

lol. "developed better writing skills in college". i've done essay grading/norming HiPointDem Nov 2012 #37

Well, I went on for art and was lucky to have some writers as teachers. Starry Messenger Nov 2012 #94

i wasn't being snarky about learning better writing skills in college. i thought it was HiPointDem Nov 2012 #154

I missed a comma. Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #103

He did poorly Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #110

i didn't notice any in the excerpt (except for the other one in the same section, as noted HiPointDem Nov 2012 #158

Exactly, when in a class do what the teacher wants. When employed do what the employer wants. xtraxritical Nov 2012 #55

I took AP English in High School CaliforniaHiker Nov 2012 #66

Why would it not have passed muster in your journalism classes back in the 1960s? It's a personal coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #65

Subject matter has nothing to do with it...style and grammar, everything. Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #97

Well, I can see that textual criticism is not your forte, to put it mildly. Singh's piece coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #144

Whatever.... Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #149

OMG. You tell me there are numerous errors, & that's the kind of BS you come up HiPointDem Nov 2012 #160

you need to say why it wouldn't have passed CreekDog Nov 2012 #137

Here you go... Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #140

it's funny that you, the uber writing critic, are ignorant of the theme, the discussion, etc. CreekDog Nov 2012 #142

I made no claims to being a reporter. Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #145

i criticized you NOT because i thought Singh's post was brilliant or error-free, by no means CreekDog Nov 2012 #146

I think the easy way out Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #151

Two of my children went to our state's murielm99 Nov 2012 #4

If he wasn't capable of college-level work, he shouldn't have been in the AP class. Romulox Nov 2012 #6

Did you even read the article? proud2BlibKansan Nov 2012 #8

Yes indeed I did. The young man does not appear prepared for college-level course work. Romulox Nov 2012 #12

+1 harmonicon Nov 2012 #24

what a load of hooey. analyzing themes and characters is one of the things HiPointDem Nov 2012 #35

Nope. Not at the level he describes. He needs to APPLY that basic level of skill to earn AP Romulox Nov 2012 #42

I've taken every level of english class that exists and supposedly am in the top 1% HiPointDem Nov 2012 #50

Why can't you disagree without being disagreeable? Romulox Nov 2012 #68

no problem, i'll just put you on ignore. no great loss in missing the posts of some HiPointDem Nov 2012 #72

OK. You'll just find somebody else to attack, so the problem won't go away... Romulox Nov 2012 #75

For someone who places in the "top 1%" they sure have a strange writing style. joshcryer Nov 2012 #159

then he was obviously judged capable of higher level work, or he wouldn't have gotten HiPointDem Nov 2012 #33

OK. He still has to *DO* the high level work to earn the credit. Romulox Nov 2012 #43

that's his beef. the class didn't *do* the higher-level work. it was a test-prep HiPointDem Nov 2012 #45

The kid's WaPo piece is all over the place, without a strong central theme. Romulox Nov 2012 #47

lol. the central theme is quite clear, and the grammar is fine (at least in the excerpt) but HiPointDem Nov 2012 #49

Um, try reading *the piece*, rather than excerpt. This is a discussion about that piece, Romulox Nov 2012 #69

+1 ellisonz Nov 2012 #78

Great find. High-impact standard tests are ruining education. DirkGently Nov 2012 #7

Former h.s. English teacher. All I can say is, "Tell me about it." WinkyDink Nov 2012 #10

My High School junior daughter is not taking a single AP class exboyfil Nov 2012 #11

Just to let you know. aandegoons Nov 2012 #80

My daughter is planning on the University of Iowa exboyfil Nov 2012 #119

Congratulations, exboyfil, for figuring this out. Slowly, the word is getting out. antigop Nov 2012 #134

Sounds like you have a much better handle on everything than we did. aandegoons Nov 2012 #135

Standardized testing is not only for AP kids and college bound kids. You start in 3rd grade in MA. Mass Nov 2012 #13

Just to be clear: to get the AP credit, you must pass the AP test. Then you take the SAT. Romulox Nov 2012 #15

True but irrelevant. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #36

100% relevant. If the kid wants learning qua learning, AP class ain't the place. Romulox Nov 2012 #40

AP classes are not -- or didn't use to be -- test prep classes. AP classes began HiPointDem Nov 2012 #41

AP classes are held at high schools, not "elite colleges". You may be thinking of a different Romulox Nov 2012 #70

elite prep schools, i meant. no, i'm not thinking of another program. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #71

The wiki link does support the idea that those who fail to earn the credits are poorly served Romulox Nov 2012 #74

And in post #67 I list the score distributions. LOTS of students don't get college credit. nt antigop Nov 2012 #131

What were the essays about? Orangepeel Nov 2012 #19

And they're essays in which you analyze themes and characters TheCruces Nov 2012 #39

the guy is saying that there wasn't any analysis of themes and characters in the class. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #44

I have a hard time believing him on that TheCruces Nov 2012 #46

that's a different issue. i think it would be an unusual class -- & a pretty useless HiPointDem Nov 2012 #53

One hour of multiple choice; 2 hours of essays. JVS Nov 2012 #79

Can't help it, but this makes me think of National Lampoon's 1974 Stupid Aptitude Test eridani Nov 2012 #82

and a lot of the questions are poorly written. The student can make the case for several answers.nt antigop Nov 2012 #92

Japan is similar to this lbrtbell Nov 2012 #20

Hi Ankur dangin Nov 2012 #21

"Testing improves education the same way that bombing promotes democracy" jtuck004 Nov 2012 #22

Pretty much sums up American Education policy and Foreign policy kmlisle Nov 2012 #25

I think the entire AP system needs to be revisited. madaboutharry Nov 2012 #26

If your child can test out of a semester's worth of introductory level courses, it's worth it. FarCenter Nov 2012 #62

See post #67 for the score distribution on AP English. Low percentage of students will get credit. antigop Nov 2012 #91

With AP credits and a couple of summer sessions, my daughter got her BS in three years. FarCenter Nov 2012 #96

Well good for her -- but at least 40% of the test takers won't get credit n/t antigop Nov 2012 #98

And how much did she enjoy her high school years? How much stress was she under? n/t antigop Nov 2012 #99

She had a ball, and she enjoyed a number of extracurricular activities and sports FarCenter Nov 2012 #104

I'll bet she was under a tremendous amount of stress and she lost a year of her youth n/t antigop Nov 2012 #106

She didn't even get her summers off. Sad. n/t antigop Nov 2012 #100

College students have more time off than others who go to work out of high school and get 2 weeks. FarCenter Nov 2012 #105

doesn't matter. She still didn't get summers off from school. n/t antigop Nov 2012 #108

How wonderful...she lost a whole year of her youth as well. n/t antigop Nov 2012 #102

Well, she spent another 3 years getting a professional degree -- does that count as youth? FarCenter Nov 2012 #107

She would have had another year of her youth n/t antigop Nov 2012 #109

I'll repeat --- at least 40% of the test takers did not get college credit. n/t antigop Nov 2012 #111

A 60% chance of getting a college credit is worth about $1700, while the test costs $89. FarCenter Nov 2012 #113

In what universe would a 40% failure rate be considered a good idea? n/t antigop Nov 2012 #114

What percent of freshmen who try out for football make it to the varsity squad as seniors? FarCenter Nov 2012 #116

LOL. Comparing academics to sports. Unreal. n/t antigop Nov 2012 #120

Engineering schools often have attrition rates of 40% or above FarCenter Nov 2012 #124

Has nothing to do with sports analogy. n/t antigop Nov 2012 #125

Since you dismissed a sports analogy with academics, I replied with an academic analogy. FarCenter Nov 2012 #136

A 40% failure rate is a pretty damned big failure rate. n/t antigop Nov 2012 #147

Since you didn't answer the question, I'll ask it again... antigop Nov 2012 #148

As much as 60% of the students PAID FOR THE TEST and didn't get credit. FAIL n/t antigop Nov 2012 #126

It's a scam. n/t antigop Nov 2012 #127

Maybe because DIDN'T LEARN ANYTHING in the AP classes or are too burned out from them n/t antigop Nov 2012 #130

40% failure rate is still a failure. n/t antigop Nov 2012 #132

And I still feel sorry for your daughter, losing a year of her youth, probably stressed out and lost antigop Nov 2012 #121

deleted ....posted in wrong place antigop Nov 2012 #122

and it's only a 60% "CHANCE" -- even a score of "4" or "5" will not guarantee credit. antigop Nov 2012 #115

See post #67 for the score distribution on AP English. Low percentage of students will get credit. antigop Nov 2012 #93

It's not the grade you get in the AP class that gives you college credit, SheilaT Nov 2012 #152

Teaching to take a test is not teaching DiverDave Nov 2012 #30

This is the future?? No - it is already happening !! lunasun Nov 2012 #64

So he became such a great thinker that he can't do well on AP exams? aikoaiko Nov 2012 #59

he's in college, so apparently not. HiPointDem Nov 2012 #88

Doing well in AP classes is not a requirement for entry to college. aikoaiko Nov 2012 #90

Writing essays leads to greater rigor and organization of thought than discussion FarCenter Nov 2012 #60

Learning to write an in-class essay is an important skill he'll need in college. LeftyMom Nov 2012 #63

AP is mostly just a cash cow for the testing company. Take a look at the score distribution here antigop Nov 2012 #67

This is supposed to be a horror story? XemaSab Nov 2012 #73

In fairness to the author, the word 'horror' appears to have been coalition_unwilling Nov 2012 #77

good catch. invalidates some of the other criticisms made, as his audience wasn't HiPointDem Nov 2012 #89

I think standardized testing is being misused. aandegoons Nov 2012 #81

standardized tests are imperfect and unfair, brokechris Nov 2012 #83

In what universe would a 40% failure rate be considered a good idea? See post #67. antigop Nov 2012 #95

The teen in the OP needs to view the documentary "Race to Nowhere" antigop Nov 2012 #123

I feel sorry for the kids whose parents force them to put up with this stress. n/t antigop Nov 2012 #129

Carlin: SomethingFishy Nov 2012 #128

+100 n/t antigop Nov 2012 #133

If a teacher gave a test and 40-60% of the students failed the test.... antigop Nov 2012 #150