General Discussion

bvar22

(39,909 posts)

105. "Who save us in 2008? Was the 2010 election stolen?"

Tue Nov 20, 2012, 06:02 PM

Nov 2012

The point is, you don't know."

Maybe Obama earned an even greater Electoral or Popular Mandate in 2008.
Maybe we earned even larger majorities in the House and Senate, but had the close ones stolen.

Maybe Obama was an acceptable candidate to Wall Street, The Global Corporations, The Military, and The Republicans.
Even the dumbest Carny Con or Crooked Casino Dealer knows that you have to let the Rubes win one every now and then.

You don't KNOW,
and THAT is the point.

This MOST IMPORTANT function of our democracy should be transparent and verifiable,
and it CAN be....easily.
We can borrow the system used in Canada (or Iraq or Venezuela) at a very LOW cost
and have verifiable, transparent elections.

The NEXT POINT is:
Why haven't we already done this?

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Did Anonymous really Save-the-Vote in Ohio? .... REALLY??? [View all] bvar22 Nov 2012 OP

We DO have the means to determine whether the vote is hacked Coyotl Nov 2012 #1

We do? Care to explain it? xfundy Nov 2012 #2

In Ohio we do. JohnnyRingo Nov 2012 #69

We do? nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #3

Do you have a proprietary interest in ESS? bvar22 Nov 2012 #4

The difference between Vegas slots and Electronic Voting Machines (pic) FreeBC Nov 2012 #58

Great Comparison! Pbs1914 Nov 2012 #63

Thank You. bvar22 Nov 2012 #68

Outstanding graphic. reusrename Nov 2012 #107

How would we do this? ElboRuum Nov 2012 #29

You want facts? EOTE Nov 2012 #34

Yeah, I kinda do want some facts. ElboRuum Nov 2012 #42

Here are some first hand facts on electronic voting in Ohio JohnnyRingo Nov 2012 #72

Interesting explanation. ElboRuum Nov 2012 #99

Unfortunately, that's normally seen as a state's rights issue. randome Nov 2012 #100

Unfortunately, he's also wrong. reusrename Nov 2012 #108

Actually... ElboRuum Nov 2012 #122

I haven't seen any legitimate criticism. reusrename Nov 2012 #125

Funny... ElboRuum Nov 2012 #126

This is a progression that the prophet Orwell spoke of. reusrename Nov 2012 #133

your reasoning? heaven05 Nov 2012 #38

Odd many respond to this post without realizing that ANON claims to determine Rove is doing it Coyotl Nov 2012 #45

Never mind Anon. You have made a stunning statement, ie, that we CAN verify the vote. sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #59

Never mind me, if Whoever/Anon made a stunning statement, ie, that they CAN ... Coyotl Nov 2012 #77

That is a Strawman. bvar22 Nov 2012 #62

If the Fake Anon video producers have given this more thought Coyotl Nov 2012 #81

#1 You REALLY should Google: "Strawman Logical Fallacy"... bvar22 Nov 2012 #94

When is feeding time over for these folks? reusrename Nov 2012 #110

So we could have verified the votes in 2000 and 2004 after all? I know this was sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #54

The same way your so-called Anon verified that Rove was going to hack, of course Coyotl Nov 2012 #89

I see you are trying to avoid answering my question. So I will ask it again. sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #93

Anon are irrelevant. You said we could have verified the votes in 2000 sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #143

I wrote: Coyotl Nov 2012 #144

and yet Pbs1914 Nov 2012 #55

Yeah, but now we've got him talking to himself in public! reusrename Nov 2012 #111

Yes they are called exit polls and they indicate vote tampering in 2004 Exultant Democracy Nov 2012 #131

Yes. liberalmuse Nov 2012 #5

Anonymous is also keeping all the wild tigers off of my street in suburban Virginia. FSogol Nov 2012 #16

Pic Of The Moment: QUESTION: How Old Is The Earth? ProSense Nov 2012 #21

Some guy is taking them away in a lifeboat--he must be a member of the Anon Club! MADem Nov 2012 #151

Did you ever watch Independence Day? IT CAN HAPPEN!! randome Nov 2012 #17

Actually, I don't believe that Flying Saucers and Aliens represent a credible threat. bvar22 Nov 2012 #67

Here you go! randome Nov 2012 #73

We had better care if either of these things happened liberal N proud Nov 2012 #6

No. You missed the point. bvar22 Nov 2012 #7

. RomneyLies Nov 2012 #8

perfect response from you* RepublicansRZombies Nov 2012 #10

a response completely void of substance, bvar22 Nov 2012 #18

The needle on my sarcasm detector twitched... ElboRuum Nov 2012 #31

perfect response for illustrating who they are RepublicansRZombies Nov 2012 #32

Oops. bvar22 Nov 2012 #98

So you're okay with easily hackable voting machines? Or are you saying you totally trust sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #92

and now is the perfect time to unite with Republicans on this RepublicansRZombies Nov 2012 #9

Paper ballots are easily 'lost'. randome Nov 2012 #11

Paper Ballots are NOT "easily lost"... bvar22 Nov 2012 #13

Paper ballots are NOT easily lost and should be subjected to the chain of custody requirements byeya Nov 2012 #19

They've been 'lost', 'misplaced' and, in some cases, deliberately modified. randome Nov 2012 #39

Fine. Get Congress to mandate this across the country and I'm good with it. randome Nov 2012 #40

Thank You! bvar22 Nov 2012 #71

*Vomit* Spryguy Nov 2012 #123

HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Nov 2012 #12

Silliness ProSense Nov 2012 #14

Silliness? bvar22 Nov 2012 #23

Oh please, ProSense Nov 2012 #25

Ducking he issue agin. bvar22 Nov 2012 #76

How can you ever know if it was Anonymous or not? Coyotl Nov 2012 #48

"It wasn't Anonymous ... It was an unidentified person" starroute Nov 2012 #56

The point of the OP is.. bvar22 Nov 2012 #86

K&R forestpath Nov 2012 #52

No zappaman Nov 2012 #15

And let's keep starting new threads until there is one without a Coyotl Nov 2012 #50

No, let's just kick this one because some of us progressives actually like sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #103

K&R 99Forever Nov 2012 #20

This thread was started to point out that our voting results are not verifiable and transparent byeya Nov 2012 #22

Thank You. bvar22 Nov 2012 #24

Yes I am afraid that you are right about the highjacking. I think we all remember Waukasha(sp?) byeya Nov 2012 #26

and the bags came back overstuffed, ripped, and with the wrong numbers RepublicansRZombies Nov 2012 #41

Thanks for the reminder of how truly blatant and horrible the performance of "our" officials byeya Nov 2012 #47

Imagine if Kathy Nickolaus was a Dem doing that to the Republican party... RepublicansRZombies Nov 2012 #65

Exactly. Ban BBV and the point is mute. Vincardog Nov 2012 #27

And the U.S. goes around the world telling others how to run elections... polichick Nov 2012 #28

And we sell them votibng machines that they don't know how to program without our right-wing corps Coyotl Nov 2012 #51

Anonymous hacked Kroger snooper2 Nov 2012 #30

Been hoping someone would point this out. Thank you. K&R Egalitarian Thug Nov 2012 #33

Excellent points, but why do some DU posters want to shut off all discussion on this topic? nt. OldDem2012 Nov 2012 #35

Too many here are self defined as Democrats, when they are actually DINO's. RC Nov 2012 #60

K&R stonecutter357 Nov 2012 #87

It's baffling isn't it? nt laundry_queen Nov 2012 #146

+10000 heaven05 Nov 2012 #36

I cannot detect any lack of truth in what you posted. ElboRuum Nov 2012 #37

Here is what gets lost in the shuffle DonCoquixote Nov 2012 #43

+1 laundry_queen Nov 2012 #147

It's amazing that stating that our elections are unverifiable is open to debate. bleever Nov 2012 #44

I agree. Norrin Radd Nov 2012 #75

As a member of Anonymous, I am keeping America safe from velociraptors! backscatter712 Nov 2012 #46

We thank you for your service! randome Nov 2012 #49

The Machines in Ohio can be hacked without a trace UCmeNdc Nov 2012 #53

Good Video , " and that is realty" bahrbearian Nov 2012 #64

That machine is a Diebold Accutron TS from 2004. JohnnyRingo Nov 2012 #157

Anonymous would sell their mothers to the devil NightOwwl Nov 2012 #57

So, you are saying that voting machines, own and programed by admitted Republicans, on the record RC Nov 2012 #70

I didn't say any of that. NightOwwl Nov 2012 #85

Go back and read the OP. bvar22 Nov 2012 #91

Reposting here:Thom compares 2004 & 2012 elections: Rockyj Nov 2012 #127

Well, I will never declare anyone who is telling the truth, no matter how inconvenient, dead to me. sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #90

yeah, we don't know--which SHOULD scare everyone into LOUDLY demanding action librechik Nov 2012 #61

We should demand that ProSense Nov 2012 #74

"Who save us in 2008? Was the 2010 election stolen?" bvar22 Nov 2012 #105

Ohio can indeed now certify the vote through an audit. JohnnyRingo Nov 2012 #66

Here ya go JR RobertEarl Nov 2012 #78

Ohio's Diebold machines are absolutely not on a computer network. JohnnyRingo Nov 2012 #96

You really have no clue? RobertEarl Nov 2012 #97

Yes, I agree that in '04 there was a problem. JohnnyRingo Nov 2012 #102

Thanks, JR RobertEarl Nov 2012 #135

As far as I can tell, the Diebold machines have no network access. JohnnyRingo Nov 2012 #141

Did you see this, JR? RobertEarl Nov 2012 #150

In 2004 there was no paper trail. We had to trust the machine's tally JohnnyRingo Nov 2012 #153

But are they ever verified? Does anyone ever count the votes on the rolls and truckin Nov 2012 #79

Because the machine keeps track of how many votes were cast for each candidate JohnnyRingo Nov 2012 #106

But no one counts the individual votes on the roll of paper to compare them truckin Nov 2012 #124

I guess that's true that no one hand counts each vote on election day JohnnyRingo Nov 2012 #128

No one hand counts the paper after the election either. The paper is never counted. truckin Nov 2012 #134

That's not true. JohnnyRingo Nov 2012 #136

You count a randomly selected sample truckin Nov 2012 #142

? bvar22 Nov 2012 #82

Your unfounded fear of technology is clouding your view. JohnnyRingo Nov 2012 #148

Your false accusation is as disingenuous and diversionary as every other post you have made here. bvar22 Nov 2012 #149

The ballots are accessible to counting. JohnnyRingo Nov 2012 #158

More smoke and bullshit from you. bvar22 Nov 2012 #159

Haven't you ever seen the movie "Oceans Eleven"? JohnnyRingo Nov 2012 #160

It does NOT take a Conspiracy Theorist... bvar22 Nov 2012 #162

It's not just one company that provides our machines. JohnnyRingo Nov 2012 #163

"With simple close circuit video feeds and mirrors in the boxes ... bvar22 Nov 2012 #164

Almost all of Ohio voted on punch cards in 2004. Coyotl Nov 2012 #145

Great post! Couldn't agree more. truckin Nov 2012 #80

Some of you missed the point of the OP LiberalLovinLug Nov 2012 #83

After over 11 years at DU, I have reached the conclusion that... bvar22 Nov 2012 #101

Hey, I used one upthread! reusrename Nov 2012 #116

Kick and Rec Kingofalldems Nov 2012 #84

Outstanding post, bvar22, in every way. Octafish Nov 2012 #88

K&R woo me with science Nov 2012 #95

I would suggest taking a moment away from the specifics and consider Bluenorthwest Nov 2012 #104

"the general notion of unnamed people making unproven and unsupported allegations of great crimes" bvar22 Nov 2012 #109

The good that the Anon letter did was to stimulate discussion about why the USA has a more byeya Nov 2012 #112

You know, if it would help get verifiable elections........ socialist_n_TN Nov 2012 #115

Excellent post. It doesnt matter if Anon helped or not. Our election process is broken and needs rhett o rick Nov 2012 #113

K&R Z_I_Peevey Nov 2012 #114

Yep, I've been thinking the same thing myself......... socialist_n_TN Nov 2012 #117

Great OP topic, need more like this. chknltl Nov 2012 #118

Since no Ohio voting machines are connected to the internet FogerRox Nov 2012 #119

+a million graham4anything Nov 2012 #152

This point cannot be emphasized enough eridani Nov 2012 #120

I like your take on this issue... GitRDun Nov 2012 #121

No E-Voting In Germany OnyxCollie Nov 2012 #129

Big Post. E-voting, HAVA and Germany RobertEarl Nov 2012 #137

You are most welcome. nt OnyxCollie Nov 2012 #138

I believe that Ireland did the same thing. bvar22 Nov 2012 #140

I doubt Anonymous had anything to do with the vote Bradical79 Nov 2012 #130

I have to confess... krispos42 Nov 2012 #132

Welcome, brother! bvar22 Nov 2012 #139

it does matter, it matters very much arely staircase Nov 2012 #154

Don't you just love Conspiracy Theories Dems50State Nov 2012 #155

Gosh, bvar, could this mean that all this angst was caused by a simple psyops Zorra Nov 2012 #156

I agree that We on Du have no way of knowing Marrah_G Nov 2012 #161